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| Who | What | When |
|---|---|---|
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| SEWilco2 | Needs config tools: SEF URL generator using Smarty output filter attached to http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_tracker_item.php?itemId=722&trackerId=5&show=view
I reversed the .htaccess rules and generated appropriate URLs. That patch file also has fixes to some .htaccess errors. sylvie1: I was just wondering today about limits and permissions on pages. Whatever perm help you're thinking of doing, it probably would indeed help. | [00:30] |
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| chibaguy | Hmm, tw.o just went weird again -- no timeout, no page.
Oh, it's back again. but very slow. | [01:09] |
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| chibaguy | tw.o not visible again, like the moon sliding behind clouds on a windy night.... | [03:06] |
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| Petjal2 | sylvie1: hi again. I've been looking into my pretty user TRACKER problem. It's really weird (to me, at least). I have 6 data entry pages each using TRACKER with a different wiki template, each template having several fields of various kinds in it. When I hit Save on one of the data-entry pages, most, but not all, of the other checkbox fields in the user tracker are reset to "n" from "on". I haven't found any text box or d | [03:36] |
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| Petjal2 | The documentation for the TRACKER plugin at http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=PluginTracker&structure=Documentation implies that the trackerId variable is optional (that view=user forces using the group's user tracker). Experimenting to try to fix my checkbox-reset problem, I tried taking out the trackerId variable, but that gives me "Missing or incorrect trackerId parameter for the plugin." Maybe my environment isn't | [04:07] |
| SEWilco | By the way, Petjal, your last msg cut off after "environment isn't". Dunno how much the others saw. | [04:18] |
| dthacker | petjal: why not post to the dev list? There are few devs in the channel at this time. Daylight European/USA is best. | [04:21] |
| Petjal2 | Thanks, guys. Cut off was, "Maybe my environment isn't exactly right in some way? "
Sorry, is there a dev irc? | [04:25] |
| dthacker | Petjal2: there is a dev mailing list. | [04:29] |
| Petjal2 | OK, this one? https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel | [04:30] |
| dthacker | Petjal2: yes, that's the one | [04:33] |
| Petjal2 | thanks. The archive is a little slow responding at the moment.... | [04:36] |
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| nyloth | Hi all :)
It seems there is some technical problems with our main tw.o site... is anybody working on it ? | [09:06] |
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| Hansi_MP | I know severeral of the devs have heard it has been mentioned, but I haven't heard anybody say that they were working on it | [09:42] |
| sylvie1 | Petjal2: did you check that the param fields on each page have no extra fields that are not displayed in the wiki template | [09:55] |
| nyloth: for your last fix on tiki-js (thx btw) do you think that it must be in 2.0 too? | [10:04] | |
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| amette | hmmm... there's feature_top_bar missing in my DB after upgrade from 1.10->branch2.0 | [10:42] |
| sylvie1 | it is not necessary in the db as it is defined in prefs
did you log-out/log-in - to reset prefs | [10:43] |
| amette | yes, tried that...
... but if I set the feature in admin - it has to write it to the db - no? amette is confused and goes looking at the code | [10:51] |
| sylvie1 | yes | [10:54] |
| amette | ah, ok - it uses the default of "y" and saves it to the DB the first time, when I set it to "no" and only after that it starts toggling it in the DB, ok...
... so my problem is somewhere with my templates - thanks, sylvie1 ! | [10:56] |
| luciash | huh ? i don't get the johnny b's reply on the dev list ? :-o
*jonny | [10:57] |
| *** | chibaguy has joined #tikiwiki | [11:00] |
| luciash | wb gary | [11:03] |
| chibaguy | hi luciash
I wonder what the problem is with tw.o the last few days. For hours at a time it doesn't load. | [11:03] |
| amette | yeah, and then of course intertiki on other domains doesn't work either... :-/ | [11:06] |
| luciash | yeah, i wonder too. marc is in charge of the hosting of tw.o right ? | [11:06] |
| amette | hi gary btw :)
luciash: it's ohertel afaik | [11:06] |
| luciash | ah, _right_, ohertel
goddamnit, he's not on irc recently that much i think we'll have to ping him by mail done | [11:06] |
| amette | :) | [11:08] |
| chibaguy | hi amette :-) | [11:08] |
| *** | Caarrie|sleeping is now known as Caarrie | [11:15] |
| tomekkott | I have a general php question: I am getting a T_VARIABLE parse error on the following (first) line of a script that takes a form and writes it to a file...$firstname = $_POST['element_1_1'];, now the 'element_1_1' is defined through value="something" in the form html not by the user at this point (since it was checked). Is this what's causing the problem? | [11:21] |
| luciash | Sug4r: what do you think ? | [11:25] |
| Sug4r | The outlook is hazy, please ask again later. | [11:25] |
| Caarrie | Caarrie laughs | [11:25] |
| tomekkott | ok, even simpler question, why is <?php $firstname="hello"; header("Location: http://bla.com"); ?> giving me a T_VARIABLE parse error....
at the $firstname line (I shortened the lines) | [11:27] |
| chibaguy | tomekkott, sorry, I don't know php much. Anybody else?
Speaking of php scripts, firefox says I "have chosen to open tiki-login.php", when I was just trying to log in at themes. tw.o. | [11:29] |
| luciash | chibaguy: apache php mod killed ?
:) | [11:33] |
| chibaguy | hmmm | [11:33] |
| luciash | tomekkott: depends what is after the first line | [11:34] |
| tomekkott | so, it seems to work if I comment some code with /* */ rather than // (which I thought was a valid comment... any idea why that would cause php to throw a tantrum? | [11:35] |
| luciash | maybe something overlooked
the // is valid comment | [11:36] |
| tomekkott | ok, then I just have no idea what was going wrong... I now have other unexpected problems, but nothing related to the code... | [11:39] |
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| sylvie1 | is it not $firstname = $_POST[$element_1_1]? | [11:59] |
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| sylvie1 | is somebody working on svn
svn: MKACTIVITY of '/svnroot/tikiwiki/!svn/act/24e58e28-552e-4e71-9f3d-ab3a187e12f9': 403 Forbidden (https://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net) when I sbvn commit | [12:15] |
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| sylvie1 | was ok 1h ago
can somebody else commit? | [12:16] |
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| nyloth | back
sylvie1: maybe your sf.net password has expired sylvie1: try to log you through the web interface | [12:25] |
| sylvie1 | I can log in sf | [12:27] |
| chibaguy | I tried to commit a test file. Got the same error.
Error: Commit failed (details follow): Error: MKACTIVITY of '/svnroot/tikiwiki/!svn/act/9d30ed9c-2370-5542-b7b6-616fb183b3b7': 403 Forbidden (https://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net) | [12:29] |
| sylvie1 | good - or bad - I am not alone
what is the name of the test file? I want to try on 2.0 | [12:29] |
| chibaguy | sylvie1, that was 2.0 I tried. | [12:30] |
| nyloth | maybe sf has some problems | [12:31] |
| sylvie1 | yeh - same error on 2.0 and trunk | [12:32] |
| nyloth | sylvie1: about my fix, IMHO it's not critical enough to be commited into 2.0. | [12:32] |
| sylvie1 | and you nyloth can you commit? | [12:32] |
| luciash | i got simmilar error on checkouting trunk, then i resumed and it worked
now checkouting 2.0 | [12:33] |
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| sylvie1 | on google there are some report about asing is it tikiwiki? or TikiWiki? | [12:35] |
| luciash | asing ? | [12:35] |
| sylvie1 | casing sorry | [12:35] |
| luciash | TikiWiki
for now :-p | [12:35] |
| *** | tomb__ has joined #tikiwiki | [12:36] |
| chibaguy | :-)
Maybe TIKIWIKI is even better.... ;-) | [12:37] |
| Hansi_MP | please not ;-) | [12:41] |
| Petjal2 | syvlie1: Good morning. My wiki page's are of the form: {TRACKER(trackerId=1,wiki=IPMDE1A,view=user,url="tiki-index.php?page=DataEntry0604B") /} I have dozens of fields on each of the 6 pages, so it would be unwieldy to have to list the fields for each page. Do-able, but unwieldy. Thanks! | [12:52] |
| nyloth | sylvie1: I'm unable to commit too...
(just tried) | [12:53] |
| Petjal2 | sylvie1:, that is | [12:53] |
| sylvie1 | it is not the password .... should we contact sf
Petjal2: this feature is still under dev - still need a lot of improvment | [12:54] |
| Petjal2 | ok, no problem, I understand. So, under the covers, it's loading all the variables (I can feel that cuz it's quite slow loading), and if I don't explicitly set them, some, but not all fields, are set to null or something similar. Is that right? | [12:56] |
| sylvie1 | I do not know - need to check
it was only an idea ... | [12:58] |
| nyloth | sylvie1: I have no contact at sf.net, but we probably should contact them. Is marc around ? | [13:00] |
| sylvie1 | Is this the real path https://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/tikiwiki? not TikiWiki ? not http?
some people bought the sf support stuff... nobody around? | [13:01] |
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| Petjal2 | sylvie1: ok, I'll try putting in all the fields. Thanks! | [13:07] |
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| nyloth | sylvie1: this path should be ok, yes | [13:11] |
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marclaporte has joined #tikiwiki tutee has joined #tikiwiki | [13:15] |
| tutee | hi, when is the next release of tikiwiki likely to be out? | [13:17] |
| sylvie1 | nyloth: while I am browsing sf - in http://sourceforge.net/project/admin/svn.php?group_id=64258
in hook and param - thre is http://tikiwiki.svn for ciabot - is it https? - perhaps it is why cia does not work it is for the revision so perhaps it is ok | [13:18] |
| tutee | anyone? | [13:20] |
| sylvie1 | tutee: it is on its way | [13:20] |
| nyloth | sylvie1: well, if I remember well, it's not possible to modify those params... but http and https should be ok
tutee: should be approx. 1 month | [13:20] |
| tutee | sylvie1: can I just confirm that the current tikiwiki doesn't really have WYSIWYG but the next version will? | [13:21] |
| sylvie1 | yes | [13:21] |
| tutee | is there a WYSIWYG plugin for the current version? | [13:21] |
| nyloth | tutee: I don't think so | [13:22] |
| tutee | ok, thank you | [13:22] |
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| sylvie1 | there is some how to do in 1.9 in tikiwiki.org -
but the wyiswyg will not ne connected with image/attach/plugin.. | [13:22] |
| nyloth | sylvie1: he has already gone ;) | [13:23] |
| sylvie1 | :-( | [13:23] |
| nyloth | marclaporte: around ? | [13:24] |
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| marclaporte | y
tutreboot reboot | [13:26] |
| *** | marclaporte has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | [13:27] |
| chibaguy | maybe tw.o and sf need a tutreboot also. | [13:29] |
| *** | Caarrie|away is now known as Caarrie | [13:31] |
| nyloth | lol yes :) | [13:34] |
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| amette | as well as CIA | [13:37] |
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| *** | mstef has joined #tikiwiki | [14:00] |
| mstef | hi all. | [14:00] |
| amette | heya mstef
nyloth: I just saw that you are preparing the fixperms.sh -> setup.sh thingy... ... on TikiFest I talked with lph about it and as fixperms.sh is so slow and devels set up Tikis all the day... ... how about keeping setup.sh in doc/devtools/ ? | [14:09] |
| luciash | is it a developer tool ? | [14:10] |
| amette | it will become one, yes ;) | [14:11] |
| mstef | can anyone pls check whether i have commit access on trunk?
i get this weird message svn: Commit failed (details follow): svn: MKACTIVITY of '/svnroot/tikiwiki/!svn/act/9ec61167-d52d-4b19-a945-b3ccc73c08bf': 403 Forbidden (https://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net) | [14:11] |
| amette | luciash: we are going to replace setup.sh with fixperms.sh as the second one is more secure... | [14:11] |
| luciash | ah | [14:11] |
| amette | ... but as it is slower, it can be annoying, if you set up a dozen test-Tikis a day. | [14:11] |
| luciash | what does setup.sh more unsecure ? | [14:13] |
| amette | ( although one can start installing Tiki after the first couple of seconds of fixperms.sh running - all the rest of the running time is just going through all the files and chmodding them, the needed directory-write-permissions are set up in the first seconds)
I just looked shortly at them, but fixperms.sh uses find a lot to catch all the files and chmod them, with setup.sh some files might stay executable, etc. | [14:13] |
| luciash | amette: i thought you got some problem with fixperms.sh at tikifest bro ? | [14:14] |
| amette | ... _and_: fixperms.sh is much more convenient as it is interactive and newbies will have an easier time.
luciash: nope, it was you, who couldn't use setup.sh properly :P | [14:15] |
| luciash | LOL | [14:15] |
| amette | *g* | [14:15] |
| luciash | you misuse my slerosis ! ;)
damn that checkout is slow | [14:16] |
| amette | ROFL ;) | [14:16] |
| chibaguy | mstef, everyone's getting that message. Problem at sourceforge I guess. | [14:18] |
| mstef | aaah
chibaguy: thanks chibaguy: there should be some service signaling such downtimes. | [14:18] |
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tomb__ has left "Ex-Chat" | [14:19] |
| chibaguy | There is: that message you got. ;-) | [14:19] |
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| Caarrie | http://sourceforge.net/community/forum/topic.php?id=2836&page&replies=1 | [14:23] |
| mstef | Caarrie: thanks! | [14:26] |
| Caarrie | yw | [14:26] |
| nyloth | amette: I rewrote many parts of fixperms (which is now setup.sh) in order to make it 20x faster (no more find, etc.)
amette: the new setup.sh in trunk/ is the only one which will be kept. Try it ;) | [14:31] |
| amette | nyloth: cooool!! :D
tikitests break for me... :-/ PHP Fatal error: Call to a member function getElementsByTagName() on a non-object in /home/tiki/documentroot/tikiwiki/tiki_tests/tikitestslib.php on line 60 | [14:32] |
| nyloth | amette: with php4 or php5 ? | [14:33] |
| amette | amette is just going to go home and wanted to quickly boast in front of his colleagues with sept's development... ;)
php5 PHP 5.2.2-pl1-gentoo | [14:33] |
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| amette | it happens when I start the test - it redirects me to tiki-index.php and then whatever I click gives this problem | [14:34] |
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| nyloth | amette: I suggest you send a mail with this problem to sept_7 ... I think he will find what's going wrong in it's code ;p | [14:35] |
| marclaporte | back | [14:35] |
| nyloth | hi marclaporte | [14:35] |
| marclaporte | marclaporte playing with dev.tw.o
and broke it will fix | [14:35] |
| nyloth | marclaporte: what did you break ?
marclaporte: ouch, yes, I saw ;p | [14:36] |
| amette | nyloth: ok, good idea, I'll do :)
well done, marc ;P | [14:36] |
| nyloth | lol
marclaporte: did you contact ohertel about the problems on the main tw.o ? | [14:37] |
| marclaporte | no, which problems? | [14:37] |
| nyloth | marclaporte: well... it's not accessible anymore... and we can't login in other websites due to this
Caarrie: good catch (about the link that explains why we can't commit on sourceforge for the moment). Could you also send it to devel list, please ? | [14:38] |
| Caarrie | i have never sent anything to the dev list
[any sf dev list] | [14:40] |
| nyloth | Caarrie: I think it's a good topic for your first mail, then ;-p | [14:40] |
| Caarrie | hehe
or you could, they now who you are ;) | [14:41] |
| nyloth | but they want to know you more ;) | [14:41] |
| Caarrie | my sf username does not match my irc username :P | [14:41] |
| nyloth | this can be explain in the post-scriptum ;) | [14:42] |
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| luciash | nyloth: i've send ohertel a "ping" mail about it | [14:42] |
| nyloth | luciash: ok, thx
marclaporte: do you need help for dev ? | [14:43] |
| marclaporte | ./me is trying to run fixperms on dev.tw.o
last try, it stalled | [14:43] |
| nyloth | sh ./fixperms.sh fix | [14:43] |
| marclaporte | that's what I did. 2nd try now
it it's very long | [14:44] |
| franck | marclaporte: hi | [14:44] |
| marclaporte | lots of errors, operation not permitted
hi franck | [14:44] |
| nyloth | marclaporte: if you need help, ask :) | [14:44] |
| marclaporte | tks nyloth | [14:45] |
| *** | Caarrie is now known as Caarrie|away | [14:45] |
| franck | marclaporte: any news re ipv6? | [14:45] |
| marclaporte | dev.tw.o fixed | [14:48] |
| Hansi_MP | Hansi_MP congratulates marclaporte ;-) | [14:48] |
| SEWilco2 | The clouds continue to obscure tw.o... | [14:49] |
| nyloth | marclaporte: great :) | [14:50] |
| marclaporte | franck: : request sent | [14:54] |
| franck | marclaporte: cool | [14:54] |
| marclaporte | (just now) thanks for reminder | [14:54] |
| franck | marclaporte: bad boy! | [14:54] |
| marclaporte | hehe | [14:57] |
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| SEWilco2 | Hmm. The 1.9.11 .htaccess is still in 2.0. I'll report its bugs.
Oh, good. Waiting for replies from both tw.o and dev.tw.o. zzzzzz | [15:04] |
| rodrigo_sampaio | mstef: i have the same problem here
mstef: probably sf.net svn is down (i think) | [15:20] |
| marclaporte | anyone know of a good supplier to get a v-server for the tikiwiki community?
We need a place to move doc.tw.o which has too much load for my setup | [15:23] |
| Hansi_MP | Hansi_MP is using www.slicehost.com | [15:23] |
| marclaporte | Nelson & Amette volunteered for server management
so we just need a host | [15:24] |
| Hansi_MP | though on a site nearly without traffic ... no idea how they will perform with high load
But I think almost all of them have bandwith limitations | [15:24] |
| marclaporte | I like that we can grow as our needs grow | [15:25] |
| Hansi_MP | you can with slicehost ;-)
how much space/bandwith is needed, any idea? | [15:25] |
| marclaporte | A funny Dogfood would be to have doc.tw.o on EC2 | [15:26] |
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| amette | marclaporte: I see doc.tw.o being on RC2 as very realistic
and I strongly suggest to _not_ move to a vServer.... | [15:55] |
| marclaporte | ah? | [15:56] |
| amette | ... I would know a usable host, but lets forget about that - I will evaluate german server-providers and look for good root-servers (and probably I'll pitch in a bit of money for monthly payments)
yeah, I had a vServer at first and they sadly become overloaded quickly lets just take a real one and I'm sure that we can host even more than doc.tw.o on it s/than/than just I bet that with one root-server we will be cheaper in the end than using multiple vServers for all the sites we will have really good looks soon - so let's show people that a tiki-page can load in under a second, too ;) only thing I don't know about is connection from other continents to germany - but I think that it should be negligible... | [15:56] |
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| amette | e.g.: http://hetzner.de/rootserver.html
49 Euros for a good machine with enough CPU, RAM and disk... ... 6 IPs included (could make tw.o/info/dev/doc/themes/one-more SSL)... ... and very good Backbone-connection as far as I heard so far (Hetzner is famous in germany for good service/connection since a long time) and I'm sure that this machine could run almost all the tiki sites with higher performance than currently. | [16:04] |
| mstef | rodrigo_sampaio: http://sourceforge.net/community/forum/topic.php?id=2836&page&replies=1 | [16:06] |
| marclaporte | the price is right | [16:07] |
| amette | amette thinks so too
I would like to look at others though, too - e.g. strato.de gives you a serial console on top (very good in case of any major havoc), but they only in the last years gained a reputation as being usable for severe stuff... before that they had more a reputation of being for hobbyists... ... so I would like to look at forums around the net, etc. to find out how they are positioned right now. ( the amavis founder told me on LinuxTag two years ago that he is very satisfied with strato - but lets see ) marclaporte: can you give me statistics on the tiki-sites to evaluate the load? | [16:07] |
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| amette | ah, and as I just read back: those providers all have unlimited traffic included in the price | [16:15] |
| marclaporte | We could start with irc.tw.o | [16:16] |
| amette | yup, good plan - and next would be doc.tw.o as it has the highest load | [16:16] |
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| ohertel | Hey :) | [16:27] |
| amette | heya ohertel .) | [16:28] |
| marclaporte | ohertel : saves the day! | [16:28] |
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| ohertel | tw.o is back up, the hoster had some serious problems. ,) | [16:28] |
| amette | what was up? routing? (which it usually is, when the hoster has problems ;) ) | [16:28] |
| ohertel | http://www.golem.de/0807/61107.html | [16:28] |
| amette | thx | [16:29] |
| ohertel | power failure and failing emergency power overtake or however it is called. ,) | [16:29] |
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| amette | yeah, ok - can't really blame them... | [16:29] |
| ohertel | They had to restart many systems and tw.o didnt come back up clean.
I think about moving to a different server anyway. I get no upgrade there and the system is quite old now. | [16:29] |
| amette | ... but as you are here: how satisfied are you with server4you? we are just discussing where to move doc.tw.o and I'm evaluating different solutions - basically Hetzner still being No. 1 on my list. | [16:30] |
| ohertel | I just thought about moving to Hetzner now. .D | [16:30] |
| amette | oh, ok... that already answers my question partly.. ;) | [16:30] |
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| amette | hehehe, ok :D | [16:30] |
| ohertel | http://www.hetzner.de/rootserver.html
maybe that ¤59 thingy... I pay like 5 more bucks for the current system... | [16:30] |
| amette | LOL - we had just that link a couple of minutes ago: http://irc.amette.eu/irclogger_log/tikiwiki?date=2008-07-16,Wed&sel=317#l313 ;) | [16:31] |
| ohertel | but get 4GB instead of 2GB memory for the same price now when moving.
haha | [16:31] |
| amette | I think 2GB should be enough for running some Tiki-sites, or what do you think? | [16:31] |
| ohertel | We just need a lot up dns updates again then. .P | [16:32] |
| amette | ( sure I'd rather take 4GB, too - but it's balancing price/performance )
hehe, yeah - but I'll take those DNS updates for more performance on doc.tw.o ;) | [16:32] |
| ohertel | I already pay that much, and dont care if I stick with the same... but 2GB more would be neat. :)
did you already order? ,) | [16:32] |
| amette | nope, still evaluating ;)
what do you know about Strato? I heard they have become better in the last years and you'd get a serial console on top. yeah - 2 GB more would be very neat - then I wouldn't fear about having to tune or running out of resources ;) | [16:34] |
| ohertel | Strato I always thought is "cheap"...
Hm, wasn't there a hoster test in c't? ,) | [16:36] |
| amette | yup, that's it... and they had a very bad reputation back then - but has gotten better...
oh? really? damn, I missed it - didn't buy c't in a long time.. what's that " 100 MBit/s-Bandbreite ab 1.000 GB/je GB" | [16:36] |
| ohertel | no idea. | [16:38] |
| amette | at Hetzner? they limit the bandwidth after having used 1000GB of traffic? but how far down? | [16:38] |
| ohertel | Ah yes ...
You have 100 MBit connection... maximum of 1 GB / month. If you use it up, they set it to 10 MBit/month | [16:38] |
| amette | 1.000 GB / month !
10 MBit - ok | [16:39] |
| ohertel | optionally you can pay 0.09 for staying at 100mbit
0.09 per GB. | [16:39] |
| amette | hmmm.... could still be enough... and if not, one could raise it afterwards...
... but I don't think that we use 1.000 GB / month on tw.o sites, or do we? | [16:39] |
| ohertel | nopes. ,) | [16:40] |
| amette | ok, good then! :))
amette thinks that Hetzner really is _the_ thing... | [16:40] |
| ohertel | Yes, I just go for it now. .P | [16:40] |
| amette | ... only the serial console is just too expensive for the (hopefully) little occassions one will use it! | [16:41] |
| ohertel | And if it doesnt work at all... I can say byebye withing 30 days to the next month. ,) | [16:41] |
| amette | oh? really? all the time? or just in the first months of testing? | [16:41] |
| ohertel | Mindestvertragslaufzeit: keine, Hovertext: Kündigungsfrist 30 Tage zum Monatsende | [16:42] |
| amette | _aweeeeeeeSOME_ :DD
marclaporte: that's it! :) I'll still meditate over it, but I'm pretty damn sure! | [16:42] |
| ohertel | Hm, debian 64bit? ,) | [16:43] |
| amette | Nope, Ubuntu 8.04 LTS ;) | [16:44] |
| ohertel | what's LTS? | [16:44] |
| amette | I'd like to install Gentoo though....
Long Term Support | [16:44] |
| ohertel | what does that mean? Patches for next 5 years? ,) | [16:44] |
| amette | Canonical guarantees that this version will be supported for five(?) years and on servers for eight years
yup, yup :) | [16:44] |
| Hansi_MP_ | Gentoo beats 'em all! :-P | [16:44] |
| amette | Hansi_MP_: thumbs up :) | [16:45] |
| ohertel | But I know Debian from the other machine. :-/
do you use apt-get and stuff on ubuntu, too? or different packagers again? | [16:45] |
| Hansi_MP_ | my Facebook account lists gentoo.org as religion :-P | [16:45] |
| amette | ubuntu is a rip-off of Debian... | [16:46] |
| ohertel | so almost the same in handling? | [16:46] |
| amette | ... it just uses up-to-date packages instead of the outdated Debian ones! ;) | [16:46] |
| ohertel | ah okay. .D | [16:46] |
| amette | ohertel: exactly the same handling!
.) | [16:46] |
| ohertel | suse sucked a lot with yast2, no idea if it got any better finally (back to command line ?) ,) | [16:46] |
| Hansi_MP_ | I heard Ubuntu has a tendency to take over config files ... though I have as good as no experience with Ubuntu myself | [16:47] |
| ohertel | yast2 had the same tendency. :D | [16:47] |
| Hansi_MP_ | lol ok ;-) | [16:47] |
| amette | yeah, SuSE really sucks - but it has to as they want to be "enterprise grade" ;P | [16:47] |
| ohertel | You manually edited stuff, then later needed YAST2 for something, it just moved away your changes into a backup file and replaced the file with its new stuff. | [16:47] |
| amette | and RPM is a nice system, but sucks big time compared with apt (or even portage) | [16:47] |
| ohertel | And you wonder why things just changed you didnt even touch ... | [16:48] |
| amette | hehehe, yup :P | [16:48] |
| Hansi_MP_ | Gentoo can do that as well if you're not careful ... but I'm always careful (yeah RIGHT!) ;-) | [16:48] |
| amette | we use SuSE at work for certified Oracle installations - and I'm happy, if I don't have to touch that system again ;)
Hansi_MP_: Gentoo never betrayed me on config files!! I always merge them manually - and I even have automatic updates running, that makes maintenance a five minutes per week job. Hansi_MP_: check out http://www.panhorst.com/glcu/ | [16:48] |
| ohertel | Is all stuff running on 64bit? Or better stay 32 bit? ,) | [16:50] |
| Hansi_MP_ | excaclty, thaat is one reason why I love Gentoo, one of the other being portage ;-) | [16:50] |
| amette | for servers 64bit is no problem at all - for desktop you run into difficulties with flash and other proprietary crap - but on servers: go 64bit and be happy ;) | [16:50] |
| ohertel | will recompile all stuff like php, apache, maybe not mysql... but all the other LAMP stuff needed. ,) | [16:51] |
| amette | ( same for Gentoo in general: may be a bitch on the desktop, one really has to want to know "why the system works" [as it is with me] - but for servers: yay! :D )
ohertel: well, then go Gentoo right away ;P | [16:51] |
| Hansi_MP_ | amette: Sounds like a thing for the lazy ;-) so it should be good for me, but the only thing I'll ever automate is emerge --sync ;-) | [16:51] |
| ohertel | That I tried once, it compiled all the night long and then stopped with a compile error. .P | [16:51] |
| amette | hehehe ,P | [16:52] |
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| ohertel | that was a fire and forget. no more gentoo for me. .P | [16:52] |
| Hansi_MP_ | ohertel: We've all been there ... loving it to bits ;-) | [16:52] |
| ohertel | not really. :P | [16:52] |
| amette | Hansi_MP_: it only builds binary packages - so it doesn't break anything - you then merge those binaries into the system | [16:52] |
| Hansi_MP_ | Hansi_MP_ is willing to live with it ;-) | [16:53] |
| amette | Hansi_MP_: I'd say it's not for the lazy, but for people administering six Gentoo machines as me ;P
err, seven... ;) | [16:53] |
| Hansi_MP_ | I do three Gentoo, one FreeBSD, one OpenBSD, three MacOS ;-) | [16:53] |
| amette | .... but I'd run a cluster on it - use distcc and you can do an upgrade in no-time :) | [16:53] |
| Hansi_MP_ | tried distcc | [16:54] |
| amette | never touched the BSDs... and we had one MacOS-server and I resigned over that transparent and "easy" system... ;) | [16:54] |
| Hansi_MP_ | usually ened up with some kind of cryptic error - disabled distcc - do the exact same operation again - no problem | [16:54] |
| amette | at home I have distcc/crosscompiler running, so my 64bit desktop compiles the packages of my router and laptop (x86) | [16:55] |
| Hansi_MP_ | My macs are desktop systems, I use Gentoo for all server stuff and BSD for all firewall stuff ;-) | [16:55] |
| amette | Hansi_MP_: there's a very nice script to include in the portage-environment on the gentoo-forums - so you can disable distcc for certain packages just like /etc/portage/package.use etc.
yes, some packages have coding practices that don't work with distcc - but like that you can work around it ah, mac as desktop - ok, there it wins big time, I agree :) | [16:55] |
| ohertel | Have you ever tried to work on a customized Solaris? ;) | [16:56] |
| Hansi_MP_ | nah, I don't do too much emerging ... when I do it I can wait. the macines I use Gentoo on are all pretty quick machines, so it's no problem for me | [16:57] |
| amette | we got an Enterprise 4500 at work for playing around - that was fun - but "customized", nope... ;) | [16:57] |
| ohertel | Try to compile an apache... first you dont have a c compiler, then you need a recent make, then m4 is too old... | [16:57] |
| amette | hehehehe, yeah - I can believe that :) | [16:57] |
| ohertel | and at some point you are stuck in a loop of dependecies. :D | [16:57] |
| amette | LOL :P
the best thing still is to emerge Haskell on Gentoo.... ;) | [16:57] |
| Hansi_MP_ | lol ... A couple of my friends use Solaris a lot ... that problem I've heard them complain about as well :-P
haskell= | [16:58] |
| amette | .... as Haskell is written in Haskell, you gotta emerge haskell-bin first to compile Haskell :P | [16:58] |
| Hansi_MP_ | ?
lol sounds fun ;-) | [16:58] |
| amette | yeah ;) | [16:58] |
| ohertel | Then you have to raise versions slowly... first x.y of maketool a, then x.y+1 of maketool b... until you have your buildsystem up at where you need it... | [16:58] |
| amette | that sounds like even more fun than Haskell ;) | [16:59] |
| ohertel | and then you still have to configure and build all the other stuff. .) | [16:59] |
| amette | .) | [16:59] |
| Hansi_MP_ | I have tried Solaris though, but I gave it up pretty quick ;-) | [16:59] |
| ohertel | apache, mod_sec, php, eaccellerator, mod_proxy ...
We have it at work, on big 4 cpu, 32GB mem sun servers. :) | [16:59] |
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| ohertel | One time we had serious memory problems with the server... | [17:01] |
| amette | that Enterprise 4500 has 14 CPUs and 20GB of RAM - and it's slower than our current Intel dual-core compile-slut... :P | [17:01] |
| ohertel | used tail to find out in the logs what it was... and then we found it. | [17:01] |
| amette | ... but it's fun to play with the Solaris Domain-concep to move around CPUs, etc. | [17:01] |
| ohertel | The problem was a memory leak in... tata... "TAIL" :p | [17:01] |
| amette | ROFL :PPP | [17:01] |
| Hansi_MP_ | I made an install script for Gentoo in bash ... that was fun ;-) I had a period where I rinstalled a *lot* :-P | [17:01] |
| ohertel | That's because Sun is using all quite old basic tools ... | [17:02] |
| amette | yep, I see no reason whatsoever for me to move to Solaris...!? | [17:02] |
| Hansi_MP_ | lol
me neither ;-) | [17:02] |
| amette | ;) | [17:02] |
| ohertel | yah, no need. .D | [17:02] |
| amette | nice to see how we all agree on that ;)) | [17:03] |
| ohertel | :)
We are migrrating to linux now. .P | [17:03] |
| Hansi_MP_ | hehe ... if my Sun/Solaris-friends saw this they'd probably look at me with ... that look ... and I'd be dead ;-) | [17:04] |
| ohertel | anyone who loves solaris is either crazy or 70's .P | [17:04] |
| Hansi_MP_ | hehe, then they're crazy ;-)
One of them bought 400 kgs of Sun-hardware through ebay ;-) | [17:04] |
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| rodrigo_sampaio | mstef: thanks :) | [17:06] |
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| mstef | rodrigo_sampaio: :) | [17:11] |
| amette | oh, Hetzner is in Nürnberg... didn't know that... we have a setup at noris.net there (and e.g. LaForge's gnumonks and netfilter is hosted there, too)...
... I now conclude that Hetzner will really have a good backbone connection there as Nürnberg surely provides it. | [17:17] |
| ohertel | they are listed there
1x 20 GB and 3x 10 GB or something. :) GB -> GBit | [17:20] |
| amette | ok, very good :)
ah, yup - after clicking on the overall-bandwidth: http://hetzner.de/rechenzentrum.html they use 20MBit through noris, e.g. errr - GBit 7 different upstreams - sounds _veeery_ good :D and e.g. noris again has double-redundant upstream itself ( though one of those should be again one of the that hetzner lists there ;) ) yeah, for real - Hetzner is way to go - only the serial console price is sick.... 149 Euros for setup, ok - but 19 Euros per month is a joke... | [17:20] |
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| Darkbee | hello all | [17:23] |
| ohertel | amette: I just ordered. I'll tell you details as I get them. ,) | [17:24] |
| amette | ohertel: cool - thanks! .) | [17:25] |
| Darkbee | Has anyone else had problems with tikiwiki.org today? | [17:26] |
| amette | Darkbee: ask ohertel ;) | [17:26] |
| Darkbee | It seems to be working now but I couldn't get on earlier. | [17:26] |
| amette | should be fixed though now - it was a power outage at the hoster | [17:26] |
| Darkbee | Ah... thanks. As long as it wasn't me! :) | [17:26] |
| amette | *g*
bye, bye serial console - it's not only 19 Euros per month, it also needs the "Flexi-Pack" as a base which costs 15 Euros / month :( | [17:27] |
| Darkbee | What's the deal with renumbering version 1.10 to 2.0? | [17:31] |
| amette | it's a deal with changing the development pace | [17:31] |
| Darkbee | Deveropers do that.. no numbers ;)
Whatever the version number... it's eagerly awaited by me. | [17:32] |
| amette | numbers influences cognitive processes and even developers have those ;)
yup - Tiki has a bright future! :) http://dev.tikiwiki.org/RoadMap we are starting to think in milestones and no more in "it's ready, when it's ready" | [17:32] |
| Darkbee | I hope it has a bright future at my place of work... I'm giving a demonstration in the near future to my co-workers... I'd like for us all to start using it. | [17:34] |
| amette | that would be great! :)
what are you going to use it for? | [17:34] |
| Darkbee | Yes, I saw that roadmap this morning.... going all official on us :) | [17:34] |
| amette | cool :) | [17:34] |
| Darkbee | everything an anything... mainly we are programmers and have a dreadful habit of not documenting anything | [17:35] |
| amette | ROFL - common disease with developers ;) | [17:35] |
| Darkbee | there is so much knowledge but it is not easily shared... too many documents on network drives... too much using email as a knowledgebase | [17:35] |
| amette | yeah - I think you'll be having lots of fun then with Tiki !
I just today had a major breakthrough with using Tiki at work... | [17:36] |
| Darkbee | PLUS... I think it can help us with our users (with things like Trackers). | [17:36] |
| Hansi_MP_ | using a wiki should be mandaory in ny business ;-) | [17:36] |
| Darkbee | well I love it...but I think my older, more established colleagues may be more resistant :( | [17:36] |
| amette | ... it is installed since a long time, but not really implemented (my thesis tells the details ;) ) - but today I got one key person to be impressed! ;) | [17:36] |
| Darkbee | AGREED 100% with Hansi_MBP | [17:36] |
| amette | amette nods | [17:37] |
| Darkbee | I got hired at the same time as another co-worker and we are both using it. She is on board. Now I just have to convince my boss and the rest of the team. | [17:37] |
| Hansi_MP_ | good luck ;-) | [17:37] |
| Darkbee | thx
I have the challenge of showing the power of Tiki without get overly complicated | [17:38] |
| amette | yeah, that's the hard part... depends very much on your corporate culture... but if it's possible: the best way is to get the concerned people on board, then the bosses will follow | [17:38] |
| Darkbee | actually... I may be in luck.... this whole thing started because my boss found out that i was using TiddlyWiki as a personal work wiki. I stumbled on Tiki when investigating a conventional wiki server. | [17:39] |
| Hansi_MP_ | Hansi_MP_ thinks a lot of bosses have problems relying on free software | [17:39] |
| amette | yes - good luck !! But really, start to convince the people that will have to use it the most and try to get one of the most (informally) influential guys on board... and you'll see miracles happen... ;) | [17:39] |
| Darkbee | Yes... our bosses are sometimes reluctant to utilize open source software because of lack of commercial support.
Incidentally, any one here use Oracle with Tiki? | [17:40] |
| amette | yep, that is a big problem - I'm in the lucky position of my company contributing to Pythong big time... so Open Source is still not completely understood by the majority of co-workers, but it is at least respected more or less! | [17:41] |
| Darkbee | We use Oracle for other applications so I was attracted to Tiki because it says that it can support Oracle. | [17:41] |
| Hansi_MP_ | Hansi_MP_ usesMySQL <3 | [17:41] |
| Darkbee | Darkbee is currently running Tiki on a spare computer at home, using MySQL | [17:41] |
| amette | Darkbee: No - and although I would have very good Oracle DBA-connections, I would never try to do that... :-/
I thought differently at some point in time - but I'm nowadays pretty convinced that it's not worth the hassle... ... and I'm pretty sure that Tiki in it's current state will break on a lot of features with Oracle (to somehow answer your question). Darkbee: yes, Tiki supported Oracle once - but we added lots of queries since then and some of them won't work with Oracle I'm afraid... :-/ | [17:41] |
| Darkbee | well it was pretty easy for me to set up my own server using MySQL so I don't see that it would be a huge problem to do that at work. It's not like they don't have spare servers lying around. I just thought using a database server we already have might be efficient.
Good to know. thx | [17:43] |
| amette | yep, that surely sounds like a reasonable way - but if you have spare servers, then spare yourself the hassle and go with MySQL - yes
np | [17:44] |
| Darkbee | What about LDAP authentication? We currently use that for all kinds of applications. Does that work in Tiki? | [17:44] |
| amette | yes, it works... I set it up once or twice... it's not too easy, but it once it works - it works nicely :)
I used it to allow lusers to change their Samba-passwords, etc. through Tiki - very convenient, I have to say :) | [17:44] |
| Darkbee | Because that would be REALLY sweet. It would make getting our users to use Tiki very easy. We could move all our documentation over to Tiki... no more Word documents on network shares! | [17:45] |
| amette | amette needs to run to the groceries - bbl | [17:45] |
| Darkbee | okies...thanks for the info amette | [17:45] |
| amette | Darkbee: yup, yup, exactly :)
Darkbee: np - cu later :) | [17:45] |
| Darkbee | thanks, byeee
Anyone else despise network shares and email knowledgebases? :D | [17:46] |
| Hansi_MP_ | Hansi_MP_ does! :-P | [17:46] |
| Darkbee | Email is the work of the devil... at least most of the time. | [17:47] |
| Hansi_MP_ | yeah!
:-P | [17:47] |
| Darkbee | I hate using it for work
For personal it's ok, but then I don't get a lot of personal email otherwise I might feel the same. Having said that... I hate with a passion those "forward this to ten of your friends or else you're going to die" emails. Darkbee had better go do some real work. | [17:47] |
| Hansi_MP_ | Hansi_MP_ never forwards those ... and is still alive :-P | [17:48] |
| Darkbee | *shock* | [17:48] |
| Hansi_MP_ | lol | [17:48] |
| ohertel | I just go delete them.
And if I know the people I get that stuff from I tell them to not forward this spam to me ever again. Works quite good. .) | [17:50] |
| Darkbee | or you'll delete them? | [17:51] |
| ohertel | No, I go shout at them if they do again. | [17:51] |
| Darkbee | "them" being the sender :o
:) | [17:51] |
| ohertel | And people dont like being shouted at in public. .P | [17:51] |
| Hansi_MP_ | I guess telling them they are now blacklisted could be effective ... without actually blacklisting ;-) | [17:52] |
| ohertel | No one needed a shouting yet, though. haha
The threat alone did work. | [17:52] |
| Darkbee | Can anyone help me with level permissions? I'm a little confused, are these set on a per group basis or are they universal?
Darkbee lied btw about doing some real work.... although I think this counts as research Furthermore, I can't find anywhere where I can edit the levels... I can add them but I can't remove or rename them | [17:54] |
| ohertel | are you talking about that extended feature 'levels' on the perm admin page? | [17:56] |
| Darkbee | yes | [17:56] |
| ohertel | It's more like a "set" of permissions. | [17:56] |
| Darkbee | yes... seems like a good way to quickly assign a set of permissions to a group | [17:56] |
| ohertel | What you set there is not assigned directoy to people or groups when you edit it. | [17:56] |
| Darkbee | I envisage having a lot of groups | [17:56] |
| ohertel | Yes
You create a nice 'set' of permissions using that. And then when you later add a new group, you just choose that level and ZACK the group has all those perms. let me find the page... | [17:57] |
| Darkbee | so if I "show" the advanced level, make changes and hit "update", that saves the permissions level for each permission, not save the changes for the group? | [17:59] |
| ohertel | Yes | [17:59] |
| Darkbee | it seems like that particular web form serves two distinct purposes to me | [17:59] |
| ohertel | After that you can create a group. | [17:59] |
| Darkbee | which is a bit confusing | [17:59] |
| ohertel | Say you want a group for some editors.
Then you give them the levels "basic" and "registered" and "editors"... and the group gets all the perms that are attached to those levels. It is a bit complicated yes, that's why we hid it. .P | [17:59] |
| Darkbee | complicated may be but important if you want to manage more than a dozen users!!! | [18:01] |
| ohertel | yes | [18:01] |
| Darkbee | I think I have a handle on it... I appreciate your help. | [18:02] |
| ohertel | Know now how it works?
first give all perms the level where you think it should belong to. update then edit perms for your groups... | [18:02] |
| Darkbee | One of my criticisms of Tiki is that it can be pretty scary to the new admin user.... but the more I try the more I learn and the more I like. | [18:02] |
| ohertel | and there use the "assign all perms of level ..." line to assign the perms in batch. :) | [18:02] |
| Darkbee | yep...got it | [18:03] |
| Hansi_MP_ | Darkbee: That's exactly how I felt in the start | [18:03] |
| Darkbee | that's how I thought it worked but I wasn't quite sure because I can also change the check boxes as well and do two things in one step can't I? | [18:03] |
| Hansi_MP_ | ...and still do to some degree ;-) | [18:03] |
| Darkbee | lol | [18:03] |
| ohertel | Works both in one go. | [18:04] |
| Darkbee | in other words I can edit the dropdown levels AND change the perms check boxes... but those actions can be mutually exclusive, which is kinda confusing. | [18:04] |
| ohertel | Maybe we should change it so you only see the checkboxes OR the levels. .) | [18:04] |
| Hansi_MP_ | bah ... isn't it /nick <new nick> to change nick in IRC? | [18:04] |
| Darkbee | I've definitely got it now...thanks again!
@ Hansi_MBP - should be | [18:04] |
| ohertel | Hansi: should be. :) | [18:05] |
| Hansi_MP_ | I though that too
brb | [18:05] |
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Hansi_MP has joined #tikiwiki | [18:05] |
| Darkbee | Well changing that page gets my vote because you should also be able to remove unused levels or rename them. In a sense it really needs its own admin page. | [18:06] |
| Hansi_MP | guess this was easier ;-) | [18:06] |
| Darkbee | still says "Hansi_MP"?
oh... minus the underscore gotcha | [18:06] |
| Hansi_MP | Yeah ... Hansi_MacPro ... and Hansi_MBP is also me, but from my MacBook Pro ;-) | [18:07] |
| ohertel | ,) | [18:07] |
| Darkbee | Hansi_MBP: Is that so you remember which computer you are using? ;) | [18:07] |
| ohertel | Hm, let me check if I can log in from my iPod Touch. .P | [18:08] |
| Hansi_MBP | yeah, I'm a bit forgetful ;-) | [18:08] |
| Darkbee | I have an old typewriter I can try.... :P | [18:08] |
| Hansi_MP | I have tried IRC from my iPhone
it does work ;-) | [18:09] |
| *** | rodrigo_sampaio has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | [18:09] |
| Hansi_MP | ...but by far preferable from a "real" computer | [18:09] |
| Darkbee | So do I get the prize for running Tiki on the lowest end machine? (Intel Pentium 3 800Mhz, with 512MB RAM) | [18:10] |
| Hansi_MP | lol
I could try installing it on the iPhone ;-) probbly would work with some xtra work ;-) | [18:10] |
| Darkbee | Darkbee shakes his head at iPhone obsessed Hansi_MBP | [18:11] |
| Hansi_MP | lol
what ablut an aging PII/233 :-P | [18:11] |
| Darkbee | :( Damn, ya got me.
does it even have enough RAM? :P | [18:12] |
| Hansi_MP | to get it xtra fun, I could probably start a VM from that machine ;-) | [18:12] |
| ohertel | Haha. I just found an old plastic bag this week from 1992. "New! The Escom PC DX/33" :D | [18:12] |
| Hansi_MP | I don't use that machine, but i *could* :-P | [18:12] |
| ohertel | There it is... | [18:13] |
| Darkbee | I have a Pentium MMX 233Mhz.... don't force me to use it! | [18:13] |
| ohertel | "Der Escom 486 DX/33 Mhz PC" :) quite old stuff. :) | [18:13] |
| Darkbee | DX/33 :) | [18:13] |
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| Hansi_MP | -...then there's this guy http://wp.hansrune.com/?p=48 ;-) | [18:13] |
| Darkbee | Darkbee wonders if you can get a webserver and php for DOS | [18:14] |
| Hansi_MP | probably ;-) | [18:14] |
| ohertel | haha | [18:14] |
| Darkbee | That guy is insane | [18:14] |
| ohertel | .D
493469 views. .P | [18:15] |
| Hansi_MP | yeah, my thought exacltly ... even I would probably not do something like that :-P | [18:15] |
| Darkbee | I can think of a lot better things to do with the money | [18:15] |
| Hansi_MP | yeah me too ;-) | [18:15] |
| Darkbee | like donate it to Tiki Developers of course! | [18:15] |
| ohertel | Yes, buy a new SATA 1TB... :P | [18:15] |
| Darkbee | :O | [18:16] |
| Hansi_MP | though I did drive 50km to pick up 4x old Mac G4s a bit over a year ago :-P | [18:16] |
| ohertel | doh, I need to work on the DE translation again.. *sigh* | [18:16] |
| Hansi_MP | 2x50km actually | [18:16] |
| Darkbee | lol
you win a prize...for what I haven't figured out yet. | [18:16] |
| Hansi_MP | lol | [18:17] |
| ohertel | people just keep changing strings and I am translating the same stuff over and over, it gets annoying after some time... | [18:17] |
| Hansi_MP | thanks! :-P
that is understandable | [18:17] |
| Darkbee | People should just stop changing stuff!!! ;) | [18:18] |
| ohertel | Nah, it's just that some reformat the same string over and over... and dont adjust all the language files. | [18:19] |
| SEWilco2 | gracias!
obrigado! | [18:19] |
| ohertel | So the translation is lost and I either have to find it or just retranslate it. | [18:20] |
| SEWilco2 | like, that's nice of you, eh? | [18:20] |
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| SEWilco2 | danke! | [18:21] |
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| SEWilco2 | grazie! | [18:21] |
| ohertel | SEWilco2: Whom are you talking to? | [18:21] |
| SEWilco2 | ohertel: tu, voce, you. | [18:22] |
| Darkbee | du | [18:25] |
| SEWilco2 | "Thanks" in Spanish, Portuguese, Canadian, German, Italian. I'm not remembering others at the moment. | [18:25] |
| Darkbee | Darkbee chimes in with random words | [18:25] |
| Hansi_MP | Darkbee: You from some Scandinavian country? ;-) | [18:26] |
| Darkbee | what makes you say that?
:P | [18:26] |
| Hansi_MP | since you said "du" ;-)
...which all you others is "you" in norwegian, danish and swedish I should think ;-) | [18:26] |
| Darkbee | Is it not German for "you"? :S | [18:27] |
| Hansi_MP | that too :-P | [18:27] |
| Darkbee | Darkbee is from a distant land.... just down the road and round the corner, across on boat and fly down by plane, then back again. | [18:28] |
| Hansi_MP | lol | [18:28] |
| SEWilco2 | SEWilco2 thinks Darkbee's cat came back. | [18:28] |
| Darkbee | Darkbee is originally from the UK but lives in the US | [18:28] |
| Hansi_MP | ok | [18:28] |
| Darkbee | practically two different languages right there! | [18:29] |
| Hansi_MP | Hansi_MP is from Norway
yeah | [18:29] |
| SEWilco2 | Darkbee: Would "thanks" in the Queen's English be: "We are thankful"? | [18:29] |
| Darkbee | nah...doesn't sound formal enough | [18:29] |
| Hansi_MP | lol | [18:29] |
| amette | amette on takaisin | [18:30] |
| Darkbee | "one is most graciously thankful" | [18:30] |
| Hansi_MP | "we art thou thankful" :-P | [18:30] |
| ohertel | only one? :P | [18:30] |
| SEWilco2 | Ah, sorry. My saber is out for cleaning, so I'm a tad short on proper flourishes. | [18:30] |
| amette | Darkbee - ohertel : the level setting on permissions was discussed at http://tikiwiki.org/TikiFestStrasbourg ...
... we are thinking of removing it altohether as nowadays there exists the "include group" which allows you to achieve pretty much the same goal... ... with the added advantage of changing it easier later on in the running system... ... those levels basically only have some added value when for e.g. profiles - so you have levels you can assign on the fly to a new group... ... otherwise I (and others) suggest to include "lower level" groups into higher level ones. PIII 1GHz with 512Megs of RAM running amette.eu btw ;) ( and that RAM was heavily fought for btw :P ) | [18:30] |
| ohertel | Intel Quad 9300, 3,25 GB Ram. ^^ | [18:33] |
| Hansi_MP | as the server? | [18:34] |
| amette | hmmm.... ohertel : for real - that's good - but you won't win the low-end contest with that one :P | [18:34] |
| Hansi_MP | lol | [18:34] |
| ohertel | Hm, I could power up my C64 :D | [18:34] |
| Hansi_MP | lol | [18:34] |
| ohertel | 1MHz :) | [18:34] |
| amette | ROFL :P | [18:34] |
| Darkbee | Darkbee is contemplating the comments on levels versus subgroups | [18:34] |
| ohertel | 64kb ram
with tricks. | [18:34] |
| Hansi_MP | Are you listening to Slay Radio? :-) | [18:34] |
| ohertel | 32kb usually. | [18:34] |
| amette | ohertel: if you do that - I'll bow every time in front of you, when I meet you ;) | [18:35] |
| Hansi_MP | any C64 junkie should ;-) | [18:35] |
| Darkbee | Spectrum 48K ...all the way | [18:35] |
| ohertel | Hm, how do I connect that one to irc... hm... | [18:35] |
| Darkbee | with rubber keyboard | [18:35] |
| amette | luciash probably might want to enter the run-Tiki-on-Spectrum contest ;) | [18:35] |
| Hansi_MP | #slayradio ;-) (warning: High traffic there at the moment) | [18:35] |
| ohertel | Hm, which client do I use on the iphone/ipod for IRCing? | [18:36] |
| amette | irssi? ;) | [18:36] |
| Hansi_MP | Wonder if I could get Tiki to run on my Nokia ;-) | [18:36] |
| Darkbee | a very small one | [18:36] |
| ohertel | slayradio? What are they slaying there? ,) | [18:36] |
| Darkbee | Norwegians | [18:36] |
| amette | you can jailbreak it and then you got a console - so irssi should do, I guess.. | [18:36] |
| Hansi_MP | Colloquy is the only one I know about for iPhone | [18:36] |
| ohertel | ah okay. :) | [18:37] |
| Hansi_MP | yeah | [18:37] |
| amette | people at work installed python and apache and the like on an iPhone | [18:37] |
| ohertel | I had before, too | [18:37] |
| Hansi_MP | slay radio plays remixes of game music from the C64 www.slayradio.org There is a live show there @ the moment :) | [18:37] |
| ohertel | even apache :)
But right now I am running the crappy 2.0 version ... waiting for the 2.01 patch | [18:37] |
| Hansi_MP | Hansi_MP has apache runningon the iphone ;-) | [18:38] |
| SEWilco2 | Just pair up an N800 with your phone's bluetooth data service. The N800 already has Linux so you can run an IRC client on that. | [18:39] |
| marclaporte | is tw.o ok? | [18:39] |
| Hansi_MP | marclaporte: yeah | [18:40] |
| marclaporte | hmmm
slow for me | [18:40] |
| Hansi_MP | it works, but yeah, a bit slow | [18:41] |
| ohertel | de.tw.o is fast, and it is on the same server...
apache is eating lots of cpu right now ... | [18:41] |
| Darkbee | ok...done thinking | [18:42] |
| ohertel | 97% user | [18:42] |
| amette | ouch :O | [18:42] |
| ohertel | maybe some crawler ...
Lots of attack stuff in the logs: /tiki-index.php?mode=mobile&page=ShowCase//war.php?vwar_root=http://paginas.terra.com.br/lazer/xfatalityx/id3.txt | [18:42] |
| Darkbee | the problem with the suggestion about putting groups within groups is that, hierarchically some groups are not that way. For example Sales and Billing departments don't share any parent/child relationship
But I might want to assign those groups with similar permissions. levels allows me to do that. | [18:44] |
| amette | Darkbee: well, Sales and Billing still share the Registered group for example... | [18:44] |
| Darkbee | true | [18:45] |
| amette | ... and well, with the Levels - you'll set up the Billing group once and are happy - but which other group will you add that will need exactly the rights of the Billing group? ;) | [18:45] |
| Darkbee | amette: probably not exactly but I need a starting place. It gets tedious to have to edit many many permissions.
So levels are unecessary is the proposition? | [18:46] |
| amette | Darkbee: yes, for sure! But I think that with including smartly designed Registered, Business and Financial groups - you have only like two or three permissions to set for the Billing group...
... actually it's less work than using the Levels. yes, imho the levels are pretty unnecessary | [18:47] |
| Darkbee | I suppose that's the trick... getting the setup of the groups correct the FIRST time. | [18:49] |
| amette | yup, yup :)
changing them later on surely is possible, but it's lots of work and one surely forgets something and will break stuff... ... so yeah - getting them right the first time and then using inclusion - that's imho the way to go! | [18:49] |
| Darkbee | My permissions are all screwed because I played around and didn't really know what I was doing... now I'm having some minor trouble trying to straighten everything out....rethinking groups etc. | [18:49] |
| amette | that's pretty common with such a comprehensive permission system as in tiki - but it allows for a lot - I'm sure, you'll find your way! :) | [18:50] |
| Darkbee | Is there a way to remove all user created groups and just restore the default groups and their permissions? | [18:50] |
| amette | nothing _very_ easy - but it's not too much work to click the delete-icons in tiki-admin_groups.php | [18:51] |
| ohertel | hm, I have 2 apache instances taking 49% cpu... weird. | [18:51] |
| Darkbee | that will remove the groups
but not restore the original permissions. for example my "admins" group shows as having 1 permission (next to the key icon). I'm sure it wasn't like this originally, so I must have changed something to mess with that. | [18:51] |
| Hansi_MP | during such cleanups ... is it possible to lock the admin out? ;-)
that's correct darkbee | [18:52] |
| amette | well, I think that with tiki_p_admin - you are admin - so that should be enough ;) | [18:53] |
| Hansi_MP | the only one admin really has is tiki_p_admin or something like that | [18:53] |
| amette | ( not completely sure though right now )
yup, yup | [18:53] |
| Darkbee | the default groups show zero permissions in their original state correct? (even though they don't have zero permissions) | [18:53] |
| amette | It depends on which profile you used at install-time (but forget about those, currently the other two are more or less useless)... | [18:54] |
| Darkbee | although having said that I WANT to change anonymous because I don't want anonymous users to be able to access the site... except maybe see the homepage and that's about it. | [18:54] |
| amette | ... but otherwise there is just one group "Registered" and it got something like tiki_p_edit_page and such...
... so I don't think, that it will help you much to have the original permissions restored... ... yup, right, you will want to change anonymous, etc. - so never mind about install-time-permissions... ... just break it down to Anonymous and Registered and start building what you need, is my suggestion. | [18:54] |
| Darkbee | I was just thinking that perhaps with my changing group permissions and inclusions around would break something that's all....sometimes it's better to start again rather than try to fix it
amette: I'm inclined to agree with you, having made a mess of things already :) | [18:55] |
| amette | hehe ;) | [18:56] |
| Darkbee | it still works though | [18:56] |
| amette | as long as you don't remove tiki_p_admin from the admin group - you should be good to fix it over the web-interface all the time | [18:58] |
| Hansi_MP | great site you've got going amette ;-) | [18:58] |
| amette | Hansi_MP: thanks 8) | [18:58] |
| Hansi_MP | I've just started mine ;-) | [18:58] |
| amette | also with Tiki? where is it? :) | [18:59] |
| Hansi_MP | www.hansrune.com ;-) | [19:00] |
| amette | ah, ok - that's you - alright ;))
amette looked at it a couple of minutes ago ;) very nice also :) | [19:00] |
| Hansi_MP | well, the link with wp in the start is not the same ;-) | [19:00] |
| amette | it has to grow!
I have many ideas, but too little time... ;) | [19:00] |
| Hansi_MP | I've had my time with wordpress, wp.hansrune.com still takes you there, but www.hansrune.com takes you to the tiki site | [19:01] |
| amette | so you're planning to move from wordpress to tiki in the end? | [19:02] |
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| Hansi_MP | have done :-P | [19:02] |
| amette | great :D | [19:02] |
| Darkbee | Darkbee afk | [19:02] |
| Hansi_MP | wp is a great thing, but in the end I didn't quite like the backend
tiki spins circles around it ;-) | [19:02] |
| amette | yeah, Tiki's backend might not be too easy to learn in the beginnig, but it is very mighty | [19:03] |
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| amette | hehe ;) | [19:03] |
| Hansi_MP | I was talking about wp's backend ;-) | [19:03] |
| amette | yup, yup - sorry, I wasn't too clear about it - I meant: Tiki is not too nice either, but gives you more power than Wordpress | [19:04] |
| Darkbee | Darkbee is back | [19:04] |
| Hansi_MP | by default I like webapps where I can get lost in the backend :-P
ah :-) | [19:04] |
| amette | LOL :P | [19:04] |
| Hansi_MP | a lot more power | [19:04] |
| Darkbee | uummm
Hansi_MBP : are you a command line interface kinda person per chance? | [19:04] |
| Hansi_MP | tried bitweaver too, but is's just not as powerful ;-)
Darkbee: somewhat, it depends how so? :-) | [19:05] |
| Darkbee | just curious...there are some people that are almost religious about command line just because it's "more powerful".
unfortunately for me my brain doesn't have enough free RAM to remember all the switches and parameters. | [19:06] |
| Hansi_MP | lol
though my facebook profile states my religion is gentoo,org, apple.com and openbsd.org ;-) maybe I should add tikiwiki.org :-P | [19:06] |
| Darkbee | and iPhone
although I guess that's covered by Apple | [19:07] |
| Hansi_MP | hehe, thet goes under apple :-P | [19:07] |
| Darkbee | ;) | [19:08] |
| Hansi_MP | My two mail machines are macs also :-P
main* | [19:08] |
| Darkbee | I want to start my own personal tiki... my folks refuse to use Facebook (not that I blame them) and we currently use MSNGroups (which is god awful). | [19:08] |
| amette | ROTFLOL - folks, here's some "amette pr0n" and even some non-emetic pictures about TikiFest Strasbourg from my bro: http://picasaweb.google.com/mindbro/TikiFestStrasbourg ;) | [19:09] |
| Hansi_MP | I do use Facebook, but the few pictures I had there are there no longer (I am a hobby photographer) | [19:09] |
| Darkbee | those pictures speak volumes for the Tiki (developer) community. Nice. | [19:11] |
| Hansi_MP | lol | [19:11] |
| amette | Darkbee: yes, I agree - they are a very good collection telling about the good spirit in our community! :) | [19:12] |
| Darkbee | The more I see, the more I like, so much so that I can forgive the minor annoyances. :) | [19:13] |
| amette | :D | [19:13] |
| luciash | amette: thanks bro, for forwarding them here :) | [19:14] |
| amette | luciash: you're welcome bro - those are great pictures!! I wish, the couple good ones of mine would at least be as sharp and not blurry... :P | [19:15] |
| luciash | LOL | [19:15] |
| amette | ( gotta upload them today, hopefully I'll find the time ) | [19:15] |
| Hansi_MP | Hansi_MP should have been there ;-)
...or is it only for the devs? | [19:15] |
| amette | it's for the community - so you're welcome any time :) | [19:16] |
| Hansi_MP | nice :-)
is it every year? | [19:16] |
| amette | it's irregularly, whenever there is an occasion... | [19:16] |
| Hansi_MP | ah | [19:16] |
| amette | ... but might very well be, that we'll move to some regular schedule also - just like with releases. | [19:17] |
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| Hansi_MP | yeah | [19:17] |
| luciash | Hansi_MP: next TikiFest will be in Porto (Portugal iirc) | [19:17] |
| Hansi_MP | definitely something I might join sometime
do you know when? | [19:17] |
| amette | yep, during WikiSym in Porto (September iirc) is the next one | [19:17] |
| *** | marclaporte has joined #tikiwiki | [19:17] |
| amette | http://tikiwiki.org/TikiFestPorto | [19:18] |
| Hansi_MP | ok ... would very much like to, but don't think I could afford it in the nearest future | [19:18] |
| amette | doesn't matter - remote participation is encouraged also! :) | [19:18] |
| Hansi_MP | is there gonna be live tv? :-P | [19:19] |
| amette | if anyone volunteers for setting the infrastucture up - sure! ;) | [19:19] |
| Hansi_MP | I would if I knew how :-) | [19:19] |
| amette | could be boring though - we almost all the time agreed - only one exciting fight in all the five days ;P | [19:20] |
| Hansi_MP | lol
that's the way it should be ;-) | [19:20] |
| SEWilco2 | Well, if you give me enough funding I can make remote participation robots... with boxing gloves. | [19:20] |
| amette | LOL :P | [19:21] |
| Hansi_MP | lol | [19:21] |
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| Hansi_MP | Hansi_MP is high on ink ;-) | [19:35] |
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ohertel_ is now known as ohertel_MBP | [19:36] |
| ohertel_MBP | There we are ,) | [19:37] |
| Hansi_MP | lol ;-) | [19:37] |
| *** | amette is now known as amette_BPM | [19:37] |
| amette_BPM | ;) | [19:37] |
| *** | amette_BPM is now known as amette
ohertel has left ohertel_MBP is now known as ohertel | [19:37] |
| ohertel | tw.o faster again | [19:44] |
| Hansi_MP | definitely! :-) | [19:44] |
| amette | woooooow :D | [19:44] |
| ohertel | did a database autorepair and fixed some missing links to xref folders | [19:44] |
| amette | ohertel: what did you do? what was the problem?
ah, ok :)) | [19:45] |
| ohertel | maybe db indexes were borked | [19:45] |
| amette | xref folders? what's that?
are they relevant for tw.o operation?!? :O | [19:45] |
| ohertel | de.tikiwiki.org/xref-HEAD
that | [19:45] |
| amette | yup, ok - then I know it - but that shouldn't affect tw.o, right? | [19:45] |
| ohertel | no, but the server | [19:46] |
| amette | ah, ok 8)
s/8/. ;) | [19:46] |
| ohertel | and got irc on my macbook pro finally .) | [19:48] |
| Hansi_MP | congrats ;-)
what irc software? | [19:49] |
| *** | ohertel is now known as ohertel_MBP | [19:49] |
| ohertel_MBP | colloqui | [19:49] |
| Hansi_MP | :-)
ah ok ;-) | [19:49] |
| ohertel_MBP | had it installed for a long time but never configured yet | [19:49] |
| Darkbee | What does setting the "default group" for users do? | [19:51] |
| luciash | Darkbee: iirc after registration they get the group | [19:52] |
| Darkbee | no that can't be it.
it's set on a per user basis I thought it was to do with permissions that might be set on things that the users creates but that doesn't appear to be the cas. case | [19:53] |
| luciash | ah, hm, they i don't remember | [19:59] |
| sylvie1 | thx for the pictures luciash
nice to see your faces guys | [19:59] |
| Darkbee | luciash: Thanks though | [20:00] |
| Can't find anything about it in the Tiki docs... but I gather there are going to be some changes for 2.0 anyway, so I won't lose any sleep over it. | [20:06] | |
| sylvie1 | the default group is used 1) for default page after loging 2) for default user tracker 3) for probably other thing | [20:07] |
| Hansi_MP | Oracle sylvie1 strikes again ;-) | [20:08] |
| *** | sylvie1 is now known as sylvieg | [20:08] |
| Darkbee | thx | [20:10] |
| Hansi_MP | is there any way of enabling/disabling phplayer menus per user? | [20:11] |
| luciash | sylvieg: you're welcome :) | [20:11] |
| Darkbee | So it's only really useful if you use group pages?
(which I don't... at least not yet) | [20:12] |
| luciash | i hope patrick allard will post his pics too and the others who were equipped with cameras | [20:12] |
| sylvieg | I am regretting not to have take some pictures during the mini tikifest at Boston | [20:12] |
| amette | sylvieg: yeah, that would have been awesome! We should really make a habit out of taking photos!! :) | [20:13] |
| Darkbee | shouldn't they be posted in the Tiki galleries? AND we want blogs with all the sordid details ;) | [20:13] |
| Hansi_MP | Hansi_MP has a tendency to be veeeery triggerhappy with the camera ;-) | [20:13] |
| Darkbee | Hansi_MP: if it's digital who cares! | [20:14] |
| amette | Darkbee: I'm going to blog - prepared a blogpost on the train back - but I don't have all the gory details - it became pretty big without all those details already... ;) | [20:14] |
| Hansi_MP | yeah | [20:14] |
| Darkbee | snap away! | [20:14] |
| Hansi_MP | 40.000 and counting ;-) | [20:14] |
| sylvieg | and this week end I bought a headset to be ready for the next distant tikifest | [20:14] |
| luciash | heheh, yeah, but tagging, editing and uploading them to picasaweb using f-spot was very intuitive here (we're not that far with tiki galleries yet ;)) | [20:14] |
| Darkbee | amette: holy s#@% | [20:14] |
| amette | ... and I'm not going to enlarge it - or I won't post it until judgement day! ;P
sylvieg: great!! :D | [20:15] |
| luciash | sylvieg: yeah, great :) have you tested it already ,
? ehm, amette, i know i said "food break" ;) | [20:15] |
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| amette | sylvieg: and btw - I forgot to mention at tikifest - great to hear you switched to Linux!!! :D | [20:16] |
| luciash | ok, bbl ! | [20:16] |
| sylvieg | (no not yet - but this time with one usb entry for record and sound - it should work..... | [20:16] |
| amette | later, bro :) | [20:16] |
| Darkbee | bye | [20:16] |
| sylvieg | amette: I am on linux since 2003 I think | [20:16] |
| luciash | ROFL :) | [20:17] |
| amette | sylvieg: oh, ok - I only remembered you being on windows all the time... :O | [20:17] |
| sylvieg | I have this pearl vmware
the possibility to have windows without the messy part | [20:17] |
| Hansi_MP | anybody got an idea as to why /nick doesn't work for me? nothing happens | [20:18] |
| sylvieg | buit on vmware - the sound card is not working... | [20:18] |
| amette | ah, ok.. interesting - never heard of it.. | [20:18] |
| Darkbee | Darkbee is off home... good night/morning/afternoon all
thanks for all the helpful conversation...and the not so helpful ;) | [20:19] |
| amette | good probably evening to you, too :)
LOL :P | [20:19] |
| Hansi_MP | lol you too Darkbee :-) | [20:19] |
| amette | you're welcome - we have them a lot in here - so it was not really work for us, no reason to thank! ;) | [20:19] |
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| Hansi_MP | I have quickly come to love that part of the tw-community - it's not all work and no play :-)
Hansi_MP gives big kudos to all of you! :-) | [20:20] |
| amette | yup, we like to "solve problems in a clever and playful way" ;)
amette thanks Hansi_MP in the name of everyone | [20:21] |
| Hansi_MP | nice :-) I love that :-) | [20:21] |
| SEWilco2 | Security question: If a Wiki editor is in Group A and NOT have permission view a Category B (which only Group B can view), does the A editor see Cat B in cat menu when editing a Wiki page?
I suspect the answer is no, thus a user in A can not add access for group B because he can't select the cat which gives B the access. | [20:27] |
| sylvieg | righ SEWilco" category perms overwrite perms | [20:30] |
| SEWilco2 | OK, so the category pulldown menu is customized for the rights of each editor; the menu is dynamically generated. Got it.
I'll have to tinker to see whether a page with "default" categories can also be restricted, or whether I have to create "public_event" and "groupA_event" categories. | [20:30] |
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| SEWilco2 | So in 1.9 anyone with edit permission can edit any Wiki page which they can view, including "public" uncategorized pages, because an uncat page has no group-view category to restrict viewing?
Sigh. So I'll have to convert to 2.0 to gain group edit restrictions. The good news is that I'll have to port my SEFURL patch to 2.0 for y'all. Hmm. No, I have a security restrictive client who won't like bleeding edge 2.0. I'll have to figure out if I can somehow configure 1.9 with a grouplike edit restriction. | [20:46] |
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| sylvieg | do we have a toc plugin?
or to have in a box - is only a css style? | [22:06] |
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| mstef | hi, is it possible to have a short summary in blogposts, which could be displayed in the rss, instead of the whole post? | [22:17] |
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