#tikiwiki 2008-09-25,Thu

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Who	What	When
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PS\|bot	SVN: Commit by chibaguy :: r 14856 /mods/trunk/themes/tikipedia/theme/templates/styles/tikipedia/tiki-pagehistory.tpl: [FIX] Updated reflecting changes in default tiki-pagehistory.tpl.	[03:06]
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Paragtim	Is there a problem editing templates through look and feel? I keep getting an error "You do not have permission to write the template:" When I look at the path that is displayed there is a double forward slash (//) showing at templates//styles. If it is not a problem what permissions are needed?	[03:38]
chibaguy	Paragtim, there is a tiki_p_edit_templates permission. Maybe it needs to be set.	[03:45]
Paragtim	Tried that one and the view. I'm thinking that it is going to the double forward slash in the path. Could you check it for me please?	[03:48]
chibaguy	Where do you go to edit a template? I never use that feature.	[03:50]
Paragtim	Admin Home - look and feel	[03:51]
chibaguy	Oh, yeah, I see....	[03:51]
Paragtim	Do you think it is a bug?	[03:52]
chibaguy	Hmm. "You don't have permission to use this feature"	[03:52]
Paragtim	But further into the path there is a double forward slash	[03:52]
chibaguy	chibaguy feels sullen for being denied, even as admin.....	[03:52]
Paragtim	Between the template and the style Maybe we are not being denied - just looking in the wrong place	[03:52]
chibaguy	Well, I got the denial just clicking on the "Edit templates" link. Maybe I need to clear caches...	[03:54]
Paragtim	I've tried that already. Normally I ftp files up but my ftp rights have been suspended at the moment	[03:55]
chibaguy	tiki_p_view_templates is also checked for.... Heh, a perm which I don't seem to have at my site... must have missed an update. But I see it's at my fresh-install 2.0 site.	[04:00]
Paragtim	I've got the perm but it doesn't seem to help ;)	[04:04]
chibaguy	Well, at my 2.0 (actually 2.1 now) fresh install, everything works ok. Is your site upgraded from an earlier version?	[04:05]
Paragtim	I can up from 1.10 - but can rememer if I did a clean install or an upgrade. I think it was an upgrade	[04:06]
chibaguy	Also, I don't see any "templates//styles" urls. Typically, mine are like "...tiki-edit_templates.php?template=antibot.tpl"	[04:07]
Paragtim	Sorry - I don't understand	[04:08]
chibaguy	Where is the double forward slash that you mention? In what url or path?	[04:09]
Paragtim	In the error message path "You do not have permission to write the template: /templates//styles.......	[04:10]
chibaguy	Ah, ok. Hmm, I could submit an edit; the save button says "Save only in the theme feb12" and apparently the save was made.	[04:14]
Paragtim	On mine - No changes to the file And the permission error is returned	[04:16]
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chibaguy	Hmm, I don't know. I see where that perm message is in tiki-edit_templates.php, but the file hasn't changed in 2 months at least. Anyway, a file fix wouldn't help your immediate problem if you can't ftp.	[04:28]
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leons007	Hi. Especial greetings to chibaguy :)	[04:31]
chibaguy	Hi leons007. So nice, and not even my birthday	[04:32]
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Paragtim	Just came accross another software suprise. Did a clean install and can use ftp. I needed to get the "Switch User" function out of the mod-login.tpl. Got rid of it but unless the login box is the last module in the list it stops all modules below from showing. Repeat after me - 1 step forward 1 step back is a good day !!	[04:33]
leons007	I am still having troubles with "user trackers", so if anyone has any advice - it would be good... I set up user trackers so that on registration users are asked what city / country they live in. If I login as admin, I see that new tracker item created - no problem. However, if I login as a new user and try to see that tracker info under "User Settings", I see empty fields... Worse than that... An empty tracker item is actually created :( What the hell is going on...	[04:33]
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chibaguy	Paragtim, any experience with using user trackers with registration?	[04:34]
Paragtim	Just looking now	[04:34]
chibaguy	chibaguy recalls Paragtim doing something in this area, maybe....	[04:35]
Paragtim	Yep. I'll dig out a link. Had a similar problem but I think its solved	[04:35]
leons007	that would be great!	[04:35]
Paragtim	Ok my version of the tracker works when displaying data. Problem with the T's & C's acceptence check box. But you migh not need that or might have a fix for it. Link in 1 min Try this link: http://www.oops-again.co.uk/tiki-index.php?page=Tracker%20User%20Registration%20Tracker&structure=001. Can you let me know if you have problems	[04:37]
leons007	let me check, there are a lot of steps, but they seem to be the steps I was following... By looking at the created tracker items, i looks like 2 were created - 1st had all teh fields except for the user field. 2nd one item had all empty fields BUT it did have the user field set...	[04:43]
chibaguy	(Noticing that page, I see I need to add a #page-bar {border-top: 0} to tikipedia.css to override the 1.9to2.0.css transitions stylesheet's property there.)	[04:44]
Paragtim	When I was doing this I found that you could change what you thought you would get by displaying the field labels	[04:45]
chibaguy	(I don't test themes with "use transition stylesheet" enough, obviously.)	[04:45]
Paragtim	Chibaguy - Would still like to transplant that tool box into other themes. I think its really neat and it would give back a reasonable amount of screen real estate. How best to go about it?	[04:47]
chibaguy	Probably the best approach is to make it a module, which would be easy since the content is already done. Then the page-bar stuff would need to be commented out or removed from tiki-show_page.tpl. I think there is a "display at top/display at bottom" switch for these links already on an admin page. Hypothetically it could also include "display in module" I imagine. Yeah, that is a good idea. The clutter at the top of wiki pages has always bothered me.	[04:49]
Paragtim	I've looked at commenting out the page bar. That seems pretty straight forward. But there again I thought commenting out the Switch user code would be as well.	[04:52]
chibaguy	You never know..... ;-)	[04:53]
Paragtim	Still - Ive saved that part of the log and will have a look at doing it in a couple of weeks. System is on "Go-Live" for 6 Oct and I still have a load of "little" jobs to do. Feature set gets locked off tomorrow	[04:54]
chibaguy	Oh, now I see what I was thinking of was incorrect: it's {if $prefs.wiki_page_navigation_bar neq 'bottom'} -- the page nav stuff is switchable top and bottom. ... not the page-bar (edit link, etc.)	[05:00]
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chibaguy	So making it switchable to a module would introduce new code, not just add to existing.	[05:00]
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Paragtim	Info overload today, but if you do decide to make it work I would love a copy	[05:03]
leons007	Paragtim, chibaguy... The link didn't give me any success unfortunately... On registration, user tracker item is created without the field for user... I followed steps from here http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=User%20Tracker&redirectpage=Registration%20Tracker the only thing I had confusion with is under tracker field setup: ""Specify the user tracker fieldID with the feeding=1 option you created in the tracker " I entered "feeding=1" in that form...	[05:04]
PS\|bot	SVN: Commit by chibaguy :: r 14857 /mods/trunk/themes/tikipedia/theme/styles/tikipedia.css: [FIX] Transitions css override needed.	[05:12]
leons007	paragtim, chibaguy?	[05:15]
Paragtim	sorry leons - was lost in thought - catching up now	[05:16]
leons007	no problem, I appreciate your help... BTW, if u want to try this abortion :( it's www.schneidermans.org	[05:17]
chibaguy	leons007, sorry, I'm just clueless on this, and don't really have the time to study it.	[05:18]
leons007	np, chibaguy, I am sure I am more clueless though	[05:20]
Paragtim	If I can remember the problem hinges around the user selector The only thing that doesn't work on the link I gave you is the Accept Option. If you built the tracker up with jsu a couple of option like firtname and last name, with the user selector as per the link - What happens?	[05:20]
leons007	I only tried with all of the fields I needed. With that - fields show up OK and info is entered, but that tracker item is created without user info in it... I mean everything is there as was entered by the user, EXCEPT for the user info If I login as a user and then go to "User Preferences" then a new tracker item is created with just the user info...	[05:24]
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Paragtim	I've just run a couple of registrations using that script and apart from the Acceptance problem they are working fine. The data is recorded correctly into the tracker. What permissions have you used?	[05:28]
leons007	something crazy is going on... it sounds crazy, but it started to work... it started to work after I cleared all tracker items AND set that user_selector option to just "1", not "feeding=1"... But I could have swore that prior to wasting everyone's time on this channel I tried all these combinations	[05:29]
Paragtim	Thats not a problem - if it working thats great	[05:33]
leons007	:) well, thanks for your time!	[05:35]
Paragtim	your welcome	[05:35]
leons007	oh... almost forgot... it's a minor thing... but it looks like during registration that tracker item description is not tiki-parsed. I inserted a link there which appears great in the description under say List trackers, but during registration I see my [ ] or (( it's not a big deal, just thought may be there is something else that I am doing that is silly...	[05:37]
Paragtim	I deliberately stayed away from as mush extra stuff as possible - and when I made it work I stopped there. I do have to spend some more time on it over the next couple of days - so i will have a look at it	[05:39]
leons007	Paragtim - did u answer that to me?	[05:42]
Paragtim	yep	[05:42]
leons007	ah ok, yeah, it's not a serios thing - iterative implementation works for me :) thanks again 4 your help	[05:43]
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luciash	polom luciash confirms to Paragtim the he fixed the template editing perm check _after_ 2.0 release	[06:44]
chibaguy	hi luciash. I think I'll delete a bunch of link classes today. Seem like a good idea? ;-) (just kidding.)	[07:00]
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luciash	lol chibaguy: but sylvie is right we should distinguish images from text links somewhat	[07:29]
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luciash	chibaguy: it'd be easy if IE6 supported a.hover > img, but it doesn't, so we need some "little crutch"	[07:34]
chibaguy	yes, that's right.	[07:35]
luciash	most of the "linkbuttons" are text, right ?	[07:35]
chibaguy	all, I think	[07:36]
luciash	ok, where appear the icons in the navbar then ? i'd use some class on the links for these exceptions only then	[07:36]
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luciash	like tiki-list_file_gallery.php	[07:38]
chibaguy	I agree.	[07:43]
luciash	i don't see the watch icon in the darkroom there though on my local install :-/ what do i have to enable as admin ?	[07:47]
chibaguy	I see the watch icon on specific gallery pages, like tiki-list_file_gallery.php?galleryId=6 (looking at a 2.1 install now)	[07:47]
luciash	luciash at trunk and cannot even upload a little image :-/ it says "Uploading file..." indifinitely *infinitely	[07:48]
chibaguy	I haven't tried uploading a file for the last week or two...	[07:49]
luciash	luciash doesn't like tiki magic is not optional :( so should i look at the 2.0 branch ?	[07:50]
chibaguy	But tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=xx in the Darkroom theme shows button madness. Both the span and the a have borders ;-) Who is responsible for this?	[07:51]
luciash	i thought you removed the linkbut class on trunk ?	[07:51]
chibaguy	yes, I did. I'm looking at 2.1 here.	[07:52]
luciash	are you talking about trunk or 2.1 ? ah	[07:52]
chibaguy	(probably me responsible, btw ;-) ) I don't like the 3px white borders on thumbnail cells, tho. Pretty sure that's not my work.	[07:52]
luciash	do we have BRANCH-2-1 now ?	[07:53]
chibaguy	There was a 2.1 release a few days ago.	[07:53]
luciash	lemme have a look/comparison between trunk and 2.1 i know, but branch stays 2-0 ?	[07:54]
chibaguy	Apparently. Well, I don't know how that's supposed to work.	[07:54]
luciash	uploading the file on 2-0 branch worked flawlessly i don't see any watch icon in file galleries on 2-0 either	[07:57]
chibaguy	chibaguy finds he is the author of the 3px white border on gallery thumbnail tds and hangs head in shame....	[07:59]
luciash	but yes, i see the mess on the links in image gallery ;) (and the 3px border too)	[07:59]
chibaguy	I'd consider that a bugfix for 2.2. (worthy of a 2.2 bugfix)	[08:00]
luciash	ah i see, there's still the linkbut but span button2 is also styled in the darkroom there so it seems styled twice there now	[08:02]
chibaguy	chibaguy hangs head in shame some more...	[08:03]
luciash	heh	[08:03]
chibaguy	Anyway, a good example of how things are confusing now. And opportunity for improvement, as I tell my kids. :-)	[08:03]
luciash	ouch ! my eyes burn ! :-p tiki-browse_image.php?galleryId=1&sort_mode=created_desc&imageId=2&scalesize=640 in darkroom ;)	[08:05]
chibaguy	What site is that?	[08:07]
luciash	localhost	[08:07]
chibaguy	oh, I'm relieved...	[08:07]
luciash	branch-2-0	[08:08]
chibaguy	My localhost is a windows laptop and there's an error with image uploading, always has been, so I don't have galleries here. But that's a problem for some other day.	[08:09]
luciash	styleswitcher doesn't work, me goes to check his cookie names for trunk and branch local install	[08:09]
stix	Is it possible to use the "float =>left" parameter on this: {FLASH(movie=http://www.youtube.com/v/wWmE6Zvo37E,width=>425,height=>350,quality=>high)}{FLASH} ?	[08:12]
chibaguy	stix, the parameters are limited to those listed in the "show plugin help" table at the bottom of wiki edit page, generally. But you can put the flash plugin in a div of the same size and float it left.	[08:13]
stix	hmm that's what I thought in a div you say, I'll look into that	[08:14]
chibaguy	using the DIV plugin.	[08:14]
stix	okay, I found some documentation on that now, thank you	[08:14]
chibaguy	sure Subway time. bbl.	[08:15]
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WildPikachu	WildPikachu wonders if there is a way to manually order the forum list	[08:21]
luciash	WildPikachu: click on the column name	[08:32]
WildPikachu	manually :) not by name or date or whatever for instance	[08:33]
luciash	tiki-forums.php?sort_mode=name_asc	[08:33]
WildPikachu	I always want NEWS at the top :)	[08:33]
luciash	ah	[08:33]
	WildPikachu: prefix your forum names with a number and goto tiki-admin.php?page=forums and set there Ordering for forums in the forum listing	[08:41]
WildPikachu	yea was thinkg of that thanks	[08:42]
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stix	Guys, I'm from Denmark and we have some special letters "æøå". I can create wiki-pages containing these letters, but I cannot link to them in other wiki-pages with the ((name)) syntax. Is there a solution for that?	[10:10]
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PS\|bot	SVN: Commit by luciash :: r 14858 /branches/2.0/templates/modules/user_module.tpl: [FIX] typo in module_params caused nobox param unuseful (thanks to Jose F. Garcia)	[10:18]
luciash	stix: do you have "complete" set on Admin -> Wiki ? stix: for Wiki Link Format	[10:21]
stix	luciash, I don't see "complete" anytwhere on tiki-admin.php?page=wiki oh in stead of english	[10:26]
luciash	see for Wiki Link Format yep	[10:26]
stix	that worked great :) thank you I have another thing I would like to get working; all my users reside in a windows server 2003 AD. Can I find a guide somewhere on how to set up LDAP auth for a windows AD?	[10:30]
luciash	stix: no idea, sorry, no windows here, only open doors... stix: try search on tw.o	[10:43]
Caarrie	Caarrie laughs at luciash	[10:44]
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luciash	luciash laughs back to Caarrie :) wb chibaguy	[10:44]
Caarrie	Caarrie hands luciash a few very large windozes :P	[10:44]
chibaguy	wow, fast reaction. thanks.	[10:45]
luciash	Caarrie: thanks, they don't fit in my environment somewhat though :-p	[10:45]
Caarrie	hehe Caarrie hands luciash kde4	[10:45]
luciash	Caarrie: already here but it wasn't much usable yet	[10:46]
Caarrie	then you have not updated to 4.1 i have been using it for months with almost no issues	[10:46]
luciash	these almost no issues were the reason i didn't choose it as my main desktop ;)	[10:48]
Caarrie	it is _mine_ ;) i dont even have kde3 installed anymore ;)	[10:48]
luciash	luciash neither, only gtk stuff here now	[10:49]
Caarrie	i did manage to crash plasma yesterday :P	[10:49]
stix	gnome rocks	[10:49]
luciash	plasma can crash ? wow	[10:49]
Caarrie	Caarrie does not like gnome yep	[10:49]
luciash	xfce rocks	[10:49]
Caarrie	i have a battery widget on the screen, and i removed my battery=plasma crash	[10:49]
luciash	doesn't plasma leak ? :-p	[10:51]
Caarrie	not that i have seen :P	[10:51]
luciash	or burn ? g	[10:51]
Caarrie	http://icari.no-ip.org/snapshot7.jpg	[10:52]
luciash	nice, what's the game on your wall ?	[10:54]
Caarrie	planeshift ;)	[10:54]
luciash	reminds me settlers :)	[10:54]
Caarrie	have you not checked my host cloak? or PS\|bot's ;) :P	[10:55]
stix	http://pakkerejser.dk/Screenshot.png	[11:05]
Caarrie	2 screens?	[11:05]
stix	yes I have two monitors	[11:05]
Caarrie	i almost thought you had a mac :P http://icari.no-ip.org/FinderScreenSnapz005.jpg at first	[11:06]
stix	yes that's the avant window navigator very nice :)	[11:06]
Caarrie	i like my mac for mac things and linux for everthing else ;)	[11:07]
stix	yes me also, just thought it was a little cooler than the normal bar at the bottom :)	[11:09]
Caarrie	since i have no "top bar" it works for me ;)	[11:09]
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Caarrie	http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20040405/badger.shtml	[11:29]
luciash	mine looks even more like Mac	[11:42]
Caarrie	oh?	[11:42]
luciash	i'm using cairo-dock in the bottom	[11:42]
Caarrie	and i have no idea what that is ;)	[11:43]
luciash	avant window navigator is also nice but somewhat slow here the dock on the bottom simmilar to OS X one	[11:43]
Caarrie	ok	[11:43]
luciash	LOL about the badger link :D	[11:46]
ricks99	is there a way to add perms to a section edit? to make only specific sections/headings editable?	[11:49]
sylvieg	we should develop or bring back from aulawiki the edit structure - with all the pages in the same page	[11:51]
MatWho	sylvieg: +1	[11:55]
ricks99	have an idea to use dynamic content instead...	[11:56]
MatWho	ricks99: what is your idea	[11:57]
ricks99	in 2.1, how do i turn on dcs?	[11:57]
lphuberdeau	dcs?	[11:57]
ricks99	ahh.. in text area... <sigh> dcs = dynamic content system @matwho: im going to create a dynamic content area with my "uneditable" text, then add it to a wiki page via {content id=xx} not perfect, but ok (for now)	[11:57]
MatWho	ricks99: I am a bit new to all this, what is your uneditable text	[11:59]
sylvieg	you can use also tracker and page selector with a pretty tracker...	[11:59]
lphuberdeau	major downside of trackers is that there is no revision history	[12:00]
ricks99	woo hoo. dcs does accept wiki formatting :) and plugins. this may work after all :) @MattWho: my usecase is that for some wiki pages, i need to display text (instructions, notices, etc.) that should not be editable (although the rest of the wiki page is editable) would be nice if i could somehow "hide" or "secure" the {content id=xx} so users dont accidentally delete it	[12:02]
MatWho	ricks99: Yes that sound just like something I have o do quite soon on my project	[12:10]
ricks99	wondering outloud... could the propsed security for "dangerous" plugins (i.e., JS) be applied to {content id=xx} too?	[12:10]
chibaguy	chibaguy suggests special no-contrast text color for the dns tag...	[12:10]
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lphuberdeau	to {content ..} no... not a plugin however, you could have a plugin that only contains {content ...} in the body and it would work	[12:11]
MatWho	lphuberdeau: ricks99 is there some doc on the security feature?	[12:15]
ricks99	a plugin that calls {content..}? seems like adding another level of complexity?	[12:16]
lphuberdeau	plugin alias can hide most of it... basically create a wrapper around the content thing to add functionalities	[12:18]
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lphuberdeau	starting to think I should modify the parser to remove all those {content } or {img } special syntaxes, make them into plugins and map that syntax back to plugins for inline-only	[12:19]
MatWho	+1	[12:20]
lphuberdeau	I could probably remove a good 100 lines to the parser code	[12:20]
MatWho	++1	[12:20]
luciash	uh	[12:21]
lphuberdeau	matt, that causes a runtime error in PHP I think... can't increment a constant	[12:22]
MatWho	ok try +++1	[12:22]
sylvieg	sylvieg thinks that if we begin/ are ready to change tw syntax, we should at least write the tw grammar to be sure that it is easily parseable	[12:22]
lphuberdeau	did I just hear someone thinking to take over a piece of work?	[12:23]
ricks99	sorry, didnt mean to add work... just looking for a way to have un-editable portions of a page :)	[12:23]
luciash	if we drop the current wiki syntax support we can directly start calling tiki something else and using wikicreole or something... :-p	[12:24]
MatWho	yes so was I :)	[12:24]
lphuberdeau	don't worry about that, I keep adding myself work all the time, if it can end up being useful, that's good	[12:24]
sylvieg	:-) I agree to participate only if we define a parseable grammar (LL1 will be great)before and nobody is allowed to add whatever without checking the grammar is still ll1	[12:25]
lphuberdeau	well, if you have a grammar, you might as well parse with it, so you need to modify it to change it	[12:26]
MatWho	sylvieg: lphuberdeau I will defiantly be able to offer my services to check and proof read the grammar. Dont think I know all of TW to help write it.	[12:26]
ricks99	*rick thinkgs that wiki syntax is dead/dying and wysiwyg is the way to go :)	[12:27]
lphuberdeau	I'm also better at reading them than writing them ... I guess we'll need to write a bunch of tests to verify the corner cases I think wysiwyg died before birth in a wiki context lphuberdeau relocates	[12:27]
chibaguy	chibaguy likes wiki syntax	[12:30]
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ricks99	i like wiki syntax too, but my users are complaining that it is a giant step backwards.	[12:31]
chibaguy	from ms word, yeah, probably so.	[12:31]
ricks99	makes them recall their wordstar days tough to compete with packages like confluence with a nearly perfect rtf/wysiwyg editor	[12:31]
chibaguy	Well, I'm in the lucky position of not really having users to please.... ;-)	[12:31]
MatWho	ricks99: There is a need for a safe text based way to combine page contents and plug-ins, look at the explosion in wiki sites/software over the last 5 years. What we now need is WYSIWYG + plugins. But the text (be it XML or WikiSyntax - or wikisyntax generating XML) will be the basis for a good WYSYWIG implementation - surly.	[12:33]
chibaguy	I agree that laying out a page with wiki syntax can be a bother, really. I do quite a bit of trial and error myself sometimes. But wysiwyg just feels boring to me. I don't like the intermediary layer.	[12:33]
MatWho	I am not sure we want to do wysywig editing in Microsoft Office products or integrate in with Share Point, which I beleve is Confluence's strong point chibaguy: I know what you mean, the are some that like ASCII others that like WISYWIG - we must support both	[12:34]
chibaguy	Sure, my own tastes are probably on the fringe. ;-)	[12:35]
ricks99	for non-techie users, a [B] button makes a lot more sense than using __bold__	[12:35]
MatWho	chibaguy: Also it is easy to generate content in ASCII, not WISYWIG this is a big +1 for the ASCYII route	[12:35]
ricks99	the quicktags are a good learning step, but true wysiwyg is my goal	[12:35]
MatWho	ricks99: I agree TW must have good WISYWIG and very soon So we get both if we hold the core in XML and allow either WikiSyntax or WYSIWIG editors to work on it.	[12:36]
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ricks99	an interesting read: http://www.steptwo.com.au/columntwo/wiki-markup-has-no-future/	[12:41]
marclaporte	marclaporte heard that many years ago marclaporte is still waiting http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Why+Wiki+Syntax+is+Important	[12:43]
chibaguy	I've wondered what page authors want to do, when they say they need wysiwyg. Is there any breakdown or wisdom on this? What's the top-10 styles wanted, or something like that?	[12:46]
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MatWho	ricks99: Now I am not saying the article is wrong, but most of the comments he makes can be pointer at "modern" word processor software. You must have watched people trying to get pictures in the correct place on the page in Word. Or a TOC to have all the correct formatting. I dont this that is easy either. In his article he does say he thinks in a wiki environment we should stick to "Simple, locked-down formatting (bold, italic, paragraph styl pointer = pointed forma = forms	[12:47]
chibaguy	I agree. I think, one beyond the basic text styling, editors have a learning curve to, and it takes training to get good results. IOW, wysiwyg is no panacea. to -> too	[12:48]
ricks99	@chibaguy: last study i saw fro ms-word 2000 showed that 90%+ of users used less than 10% of the "features" for most users, Notepad works as well (if not better) than ms-word	[12:48]
MatWho	That is correct, this is exactly why Wikis have exploded on the world. They let people do lost of stuff they could not do with word ricks99: Exactly	[12:49]
chibaguy	Sounds right to me. In my office, most people don't know there's file storage beyond the icons on the desktop. "Oh, no, I'm out of space!" ;-)	[12:50]
ricks99	y, but using ''italic'' and __bold__ is a PITA give me a simple wysiwyg rtf editor and i'll be fine	[12:50]
MatWho	ricks99: absolutly, hence we need the simple WYSYWIG editor and soon	[12:50]
chibaguy	yeah, I agree with you guys.	[12:50]
MatWho	lets do it!!	[12:51]
ricks99	i asked a while back... could a client-side, browser plugin be a simplier solution? i use the greasemonkey + ff extension to get wysiwyg with mediawiki installs	[12:51]
chibaguy	Actually to do big tables for my Tikis, I do it first in Dreamweaver and then find and replace the html tags with wiki syntax. :-)	[12:51]
ricks99	the wikiEd extension in greasmemonkey, i mean	[12:52]
MatWho	correct me if I am wrong but the editor is not the difficult bit, it is how we store the contents in TW that will take some careful surgery	[12:53]
marclaporte	maybe if we limit to 5-6 WYSIWYG syntaxes	[12:54]
MatWho	marclaporte: say that again, in a different way	[12:55]
chibaguy	chibaguy hears Yoda say "If limit we maybe to wysywyg syntaxes 5-6".....	[12:57]
marclaporte	let's say WYSIWYG is just bold, italic, a link builder and an image picker	[12:57]
MatWho	no still dont understand marclaporte: Yes now I do	[12:57]
ricks99	@marc: to be useful, i want/need all formatting options (bold, italic, underline, etc), plus list buliders (# and *), headings, and tables a plugin picker would be a bonus	[12:58]
MatWho	marclaporte: Defiantly, but the big project is changing the way content is stored in TW. Then we can start with a simple wisywig editor and add on in later versions. But from a solid base. And the pluging picker would be the most imortant bit, that is what you cana not do in Word cana - can not My fingers are not WWIT - Write what I think - today	[13:00]
chibaguy	Is FCKeditor not working out? (I'm really ignorant about this.)	[13:01]
MatWho	chibaguy: FCKeditor is fine, it just produces HTML, which is not good for TW because it cant have plugins in it	[13:01]
chibaguy	Ah, ok.	[13:02]
MatWho	chibaguy: and plugins is what it is all about	[13:02]
sylvieg	??? if options are welll set the fckeditor in tw accepts plugins	[13:02]
MatWho	sylvieg: How can I do that	[13:03]
sylvieg	in admin->wysiwyg - there are options to accept tw syntax	[13:03]
MatWho	sylvieg: OK looking at my browser ...	[13:04]
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chibaguy	Basic docs: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Wysiwyg+Editor+Admin&bl=y	[13:08]
MatWho	great	[13:08]
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lphuberdeau	lphuberdeau is resuming normal operations	[13:11]
MatWho	chibaguy: So if I create a wiki page with wysiwyg and then go back to the wikisyntax can I edit there or is it all HTML if I do that? lphuberdeau: :)	[13:11]
chibaguy	MatWho, to tell you the truth, I don't know for sure. I've only tried the editor a few times, mostly back when it was new in Tiki. But I get that meaning from the docs. Choose ""Content is parsed like a wiki page""	[13:14]
MatWho	chibaguy: Yes I am having a go now, it does work with headers. Some one has put a lot of effort in over the last few months. Last time I tried this I have to reinstall TW	[13:15]
chibaguy	Then "all content of the wiki page is parsed, then __bold__ is shown as bold in parsed result, and is still displayed __bold__ in the source of the wiki page. Then you can mix wysiwyg edition and wikistyle code."	[13:15]
ricks99	*rick has had little luck with switching back and forth somone was working on patches i think...	[13:15]
chibaguy	I used it so long ago, surely it has been improved since then.	[13:16]
MatWho	I tried typing {BOX (title="hello world")}In a box {BOX} in to the editor but just get it back not a box format. So I guess that was too hard. Headings and bold work fine.	[13:18]
ricks99	try this... brand new 2.1 install. enable wysiwyg. edit the default home page. change to wysiwyg. what you get is a mess :(	[13:19]
lphuberdeau	wasn't supposed to be fixed in 2.1	[13:20]
ricks99	ahhh. patches are only in 3.0?	[13:20]
lphuberdeau	no patches yet the problem is much deeper and no one knows how to solve it yet	[13:20]
MatWho	I get it without too many problems - in fact it looks great. I am on 3.x ricks99: Get 3.0 it will answer many of you issues with WISYWIG right now!	[13:21]
lphuberdeau	ok, maybe it makes it not as bad, but the problem is still existing	[13:21]
MatWho	still think we should re-engineer TW to have XML as the core representation. :)	[13:22]
ricks99	@matWho: can you (1) create a wiki sytnax page. (2) reopen the page in wysiwyg & make edits. (3) reopen the page in wiki syntax?	[13:22]
lphuberdeau	I think mike kerr's '2.5' has some patches backported matwho, I need som time for that ;)	[13:22]
MatWho	ricks99: I have not tested it very hard but for the home page you definatly can.	[13:23]
lphuberdeau	donc t'arrive pour le diner? :) oops	[13:23]
ricks99	off to grab 3.0....	[13:23]
MatWho	lphuberdeau: hurry up, all the eating is slowing the coding down - stop it! Hey I just got some plane tickets to Canada arrive on my desk!! :)	[13:23]
lphuberdeau	paper tickets? I don't think I ever saw those	[13:24]
MatWho	Yup, cute.	[13:25]
lphuberdeau	mat, you are officially the first one to create a DB patch	[13:27]
chibaguy	After just checking the wysiwyg editor, I'm really impressed. Edited with wysiwyg in FF3 and normal editor in older Opera and everything is respected, and as expected in wiki source.	[13:28]
lphuberdeau	try special syntaxes... things that don't exist in HTML for example	[13:29]
MatWho	lphuberdeau: I am still very very happy :)	[13:29]
chibaguy	The box plugin and {cookie} tag work and show up in both editors as expected....	[13:33]
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ricks99	wow. wysiwyg in 3.0 is pretty tight!	[13:34]
MatWho	chibaguy: How did you get BOX to work, I just got the code back	[13:35]
chibaguy	Just the magic touch, I guess. ;-) This is a site upgraded to the 2.1 release, and wysiwyg set as described earlier.	[13:35]
MatWho	chibaguy: I can see you are a very powerful kind of magic!	[13:36]
chibaguy	Maybe just the right alignment of asteroids or something.	[13:37]
MatWho	:) chibaguy: do you know why we have 2 tick boxes one for "partially parsed" and the other for "parsed like a wiki page" surly the second one subsumes the first	[13:37]
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chibaguy	Partially parsed seems to be more limited. partial parsing includes: * parsing of links * parsing of images and generally what is included in { } * parsing of wikiplugins	[13:47]
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chibaguy	<-only, apparently.	[13:48]
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chibaguy	whereas "parsed like a wiki page" parses all wiki syntax. Maybe "partially parsed" is safer for mostly wysiwyg users since it won't convert wiki syntax that might be typed in unintentionally. (just guessing)	[13:52]
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chibaguy	If anyone comes up with good use case examples for these settings, it'd be great to add them to the doc page.	[14:01]
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PS\|bot	SVN: Commit by sylvieg :: r 14859 /trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): self_link + pagination	[14:32]
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PS\|bot	SVN: Commit by sylvieg :: r 14860 /trunk/tiki-adminusers.php: self_link	[14:37]
luciash	chibaguy: when you write something in bold does the wysiwyg save it in wiki syntax as __bold__ ? (it didn't last time i tried)	[14:45]
chibaguy	You mean write it as bold using normal editor and wiki syntax?	[14:49]
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chibaguy	If I make it bold in the wysiwyg editor, it has <strong> tags in the source. If I do it in the normal editor, it's wiki syntax. (naturally :-) ) Thed w5g editor (sorry, tired of typing all those letters ;-) ) doesn't produce wiki syntax, but leaves it alone, it seems.	[14:54]
gillesMMM	hell I am on 2.1 ... and I have access denied for my images galeries ... idea ?	[14:56]
luciash	chibaguy: i mean wikiwyg should save in wiki syntax so then when other users edit the page with wysiwyg on they can continue in wiki syntax gillesMMM: you were a bad boy it seems ;)	[14:57]
chibaguy	yes, luciash, that seems to work ok.	[15:01]
gillesMMM	luciash: yes I know but ...	[15:01]
chibaguy	I was using the two kinds of editors in two browsers and both could edit and view ok. gillesMMM, is it a new install, or an upgrade?	[15:01]
gillesMMM	an upgrade an upgrade from 1.9.9	[15:02]
luciash	chibaguy: but if you say it saves as <strong> then it doesn't, nope ?	[15:03]
chibaguy	I wonder if a permission was missed or something.	[15:03]
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chibaguy	You used the tiki-install.php update?	[15:03]
gillesMMM	chibaguy: no ... manually . copy of local.php and mysql --force base <tiki_1.9to2.0.sql	[15:04]
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chibaguy	Maybe the database should be checked to be sure the permissions are all there. (or anyway the relevant one)	[15:06]
	Though, if the perm was there before, it should still be.	[15:11]
gillesMMM	yes I needed to re assign perms to imagegaleries	[15:11]
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WildPikachu	aha If one stores tracker data in its own tables (tickbox in the Tracker admin panel), it doesn't appear to use the description field if specified for a field	[15:14]
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chibaguy	Here's something interesting about the wiki editors: using w5g editor to make a list, the <li>s are indented in typical HTML formatting style, which makes them monotype. In the normal editor, the indents can be removed to make the list items the normal wiki text font. Not a big deal, kind of funny.	[15:21]
sylvieg	tracker with mirror tables are no more maintained ... I thought we deleted this option....	[15:21]
chibaguy	WildPikachu, I guess what you're seeing there would be a bug, right? .... or old code.....	[15:21]
WildPikachu	chibaguy, Im inclined to think so .... changing the storage of the tracker to not being in its own table works 100% :)	[15:22]
chibaguy	Well, that's consistent with sylvieg's comment. :-)	[15:23]
WildPikachu	:) v2.1 btw	[15:23]
chibaguy	Actually (about the font style in lists), I guess it's not so good for the wiki syntax to intrude on the wysiwyg output that way, if page appearance is important in all details. So in a case like that, either it should be cleaned up in the normal editor (indents removed), or maybe the option to use both editors should not be chosen.	[15:28]
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luciash	chibaguy: is the parsing of indented text to monospace on by default ?	[15:33]
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chibaguy	luciash, yes, it's turned on in my wiki prefs. So that could be turned off to eliminate that problem. (I don't know about the default setting in a fresh install -- off?)	[15:47]
gillesMMM	I lost the style for the description in top of wiki pages	[15:48]
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gillesMMM	<div class="wikitopline" style="clear: both;"> is there a way to delete the clear ?	[16:03]
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chibaguy	gillesMMM, edit the theme's stylesheet, is that what you mean? ...find div.wikitopline or just .wikitopline and delete "clear:both" ?	[16:09]
gillesMMM	I don't see clear both in the stylesheet	[16:11]
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chibaguy	Maybe it's inline CSS, then, in the template itself.	[16:12]
nikhilodeon	hi - i had a question about the "Site Login Bar" feature that is configured in the Look and Feel section of Tiki - /tiki-admin.php?page=look# - when I logout, it disappears from the page, but reappears when I refresh has anyone had that experience?	[16:13]
chibaguy	gillesMMM, then you can add .wikitopline {clear:none !important} to the stylesheet. nikhilodeon, no, what theme is it?	[16:15]
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nikhilodeon	chibaguy - i used moreneat.css as the base, and then created my own one caveat - i did add some style formatting to the login box in the .tpl file, but i don't think it should have disrupted anything	[16:16]
chibaguy	Heh, famous last words..... ;-)	[16:18]
nikhilodeon	heh heh	[16:19]
chibaguy	I don't know off hand. I noticed sometimes things not appearing until I log in, that should always display, such as the horizontal menu/top bar. But I haven't investigated.	[16:21]
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chibaguy	because it only happens once in a while, not consistently, and I'm busy with something else at the time.	[16:22]
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chibaguy	Maybe there is a permission check problem with your login bar. You could check for "if $user" kinds of things or other "if" statements.	[16:24]
nikhilodeon	chibaguy - that is a good point re: permissions; but why would it then appear when I refresh my browser?	[16:25]
chibaguy	Maybe a cookie changed. Or something like that. Geting late here... ;-) Getting	[16:26]
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chibaguy	g'night all. :-)	[16:32]
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GillesMM	salut marclaporte	[16:48]
MatWho	marclaporte: Are you there	[16:49]
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marclaporte	yes, in taxi just have a few minutes wasssup? polom GillesMM GillesMM: : I am back in Paris end of November	[16:52]
GillesMM	cool call me to have a lunch together	[16:53]
marclaporte	GillesMM: : do you have any shows early Dec?	[16:53]
GillesMM	I don't know we are recording ...	[16:54]
MatWho	marclaporte: just want to talk to whoever did the WYSYWIG see if I can get the documentation improved and find out how it works do you know who it is	[16:54]
marclaporte	Johnny Bradley worked on trying to make more reliable Our Strasbourg friends implemented (Nyloth & co) svn blame should help	[16:55]
MatWho	ok	[16:56]
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kerrnel	howdy	[17:04]
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kerrnel	Anybody know why a <button> tag in IE6 will not submit and a <button> tag in FireFox will?	[17:07]
sylvieg	do you have only one button in the form?	[17:08]
kerrnel	No, I have 3	[17:08]
sylvieg	IE is bugeed if multiple button	[17:08]
kerrnel	Is that using <button> or <input type=submit> kind of thing? Any suggestions for a workaround?	[17:09]
sylvieg	use input and style or google to see if workaround	[17:10]
kerrnel	If the action is specified in the form tag though, you can't do multiple submit buttons can you?	[17:11]
sylvieg	??? yes if you go to the same action url...	[17:13]
kerrnel	lol sorry, brain fart there thanks sylvie	[17:13]
luciash	kerrnel: if there are more buttons intended for submit it will not work in IE6 with button tag, only with input type="submit" kerrnel: ie6 is really bugged browser ;)	[17:17]
kerrnel	Kind of a big bug. lol Good to know though.	[17:20]
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PS\|bot	SVN: Commit by lphuberdeau :: r 14861 /trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [MOD] Display details & timeline	[17:34]
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WildPikachu	the field in a tracker to allow the user to edit his own items, is it 'user' and I set feeding=1? ah, got it	[17:42]
kerrnel	Should be in the admin page for that tracker	[17:51]
WildPikachu	yea, got it 1,feeding=1 seems to of done it :)	[17:58]
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PS\|bot	SVN: Commit by lphuberdeau :: r 14864 /trunk/lib/tikilib.php: [FIX] Oops, old debug info	[19:30]
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WildPikachu	hrmmm, in a template if I try use <script> I get a <x> in the middle of it, what would be the best way to include this in the template?	[19:43]
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SEWilco2	Can release times be specified for individual uploaded Podcast files, so they're not available until the specified time? So "Sunday's show" doesn't appear in RSS feed until 12:01 AM Sunday?	[19:48]
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marclaporte	polom	[20:13]
franck	plop	[20:13]
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snarlydwarf	hrrm.. something changed in trunk today with {img} tags, i get an error telling me there is no img module	[20:53]
lphuberdeau_	just fixed it	[20:53]
snarlydwarf	tho oddly the wysiwyg editor still shows it ah ok	[20:53]
lphuberdeau_	working on the parser right now	[20:53]
snarlydwarf	confusing cause the editor actually seems to work just on save it .. doesnt	[20:54]
lphuberdeau_	forgot the backwards compat part during transition ;)	[20:54]
PS\|bot	SVN: Commit by lphuberdeau :: r 14865 /trunk/lib/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [MOD] Moving code to plugins, keeping backwards compatibility, fixing edge case in parameter separation	[20:54]
snarlydwarf	ah someone really needs to write a wiki-speaking editor :/	[20:54]
lphuberdeau_	see, I just fixed it	[20:54]
snarlydwarf	heh k, svn update again :P	[20:54]
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snarlydwarf	thanks ^^	[20:56]
PS\|bot	SVN: Commit by lphuberdeau :: r 14866 /trunk/lib/wiki-plugins/wikiplugin_img.php: [MOD] Parameter documentation on the image plugin.	[21:07]
snarlydwarf	is there an 'easy' way to make tw generate sef-url's everywhere? Ie, it would be slick if turning on friendly urls rewrote image references to '/image12938' or whatever, not just wikilinks	[21:08]
lphuberdeau_	no easy way	[21:09]
snarlydwarf	or is that something that for now has to be done in each tpl?	[21:09]
lphuberdeau_	everywhere at the moment but I guess it shouldn't be too hard to make some smarty syntax extension to handle most of it (at least the conditional part)... still has to be applied everywhere	[21:09]
snarlydwarf	icky. should I slowly add conditionals to templates to do some of that? or would it be better to make a 'url('image', $imagenum' function and propogate that yeah, would be nice to have a simple way to do it	[21:10]
lphuberdeau_	something like that ideally.... {$imageId\|sefurl:'image'}	[21:10]
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snarlydwarf	ah and make sefurl check the setting so it doesn't break people without sefurls? (though dunno why people wouldnt turn that on, mod_rewrite is so useful)	[21:11]
lphuberdeau_	the sefurl function would have to make a check and return the appropriate version not all web servers support it IIS among others	[21:12]
snarlydwarf	heh well, dunno why anyone would choose to use that :P	[21:13]
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lphuberdeau_	me neither	[21:15]
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PS\|bot	SVN: Commit by lphuberdeau :: r 14867 /trunk/lib/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [MOD] Moving the file wiki syntax to a plugin	[21:31]
marclaporte	polom	[21:31]
lphuberdeau_	done working for the day	[21:32]
marclaporte	I had a discussion with joomla! people. They have a way where people can install themes which is much simpler than ours. I'll get more details... take care lphuberdeau_! you deserve a beer!	[21:32]
lphuberdeau_	that's exactly what I was planning on doing	[21:33]
snarlydwarf	ah nifty lphuberdeau_ .. .augmenting smarty_tiki/modifier.sefurl.php is nice I will try to write up a proposal for changing that and then slowly adjust all the tpls or at least the tpls i use and then non-adminly things so that spiders get happy.	[21:36]
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marclaporte	hi NefariousC	[21:56]
NefariousC	hi!!!	[21:57]
marclaporte	NefariousC: : did you see some questions on the dev list about magic?	[22:02]
NefariousC	Uh. Not so much.	[22:02]
marclaporte	marclaporte is curious as to your take on this	[22:02]
NefariousC	I kinda forgot to resubscribe.	[22:03]
marclaporte	hehe	[22:07]
..... (idle for 21mn)
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sylvieg	do people use wysiwyg with edit by section? (I can not have !heading rendering in fck..)	[22:33]
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snarlydwarf	around line 111 of tiki-view_blog_post.php in trunk, there is some stuff to make uri's and shove into smarty but i dont see uri and uri2 used any any template at all is that just cruft that should be deleted?	[22:50]
sylvieg	I suppose it is the feautre - I do not remember the name (ask amette) the was deleted	[22:53]
snarlydwarf	yeah you have a commit on one of those but its like from 2004 so the reason is long buried in cvs not svn ah 2006. mose's lines are 2004 sylvieg: did you see the comments earlier about sefurl? ie, extending the smarty modifier to take arguments like, say "blog" and rewrite to /blog<id> (which .htaccess honors).. then mucking with a zillion tpls to actually use those?	[22:54]
sylvieg	no - but go ahead - you are more than welcome	[22:57]
snarlydwarf	i'm up for tedious template changes until my eyes fall out, just don't want to commit changes if everyone thinks it sucks	[22:57]
sylvieg	thanks snarlydwarf	[22:57]
snarlydwarf	works very nicely hah I just stole the way to do it from lphuberdeau	[22:58]
SEWilco2	snarlydwarf: I think that is the only way to get those sefurls defined. Tediousite away.	[22:58]
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PS\|bot	SVN: Commit by brian_moore :: r 14868 /trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): start of sefurl-ing the bonus non-wiki features of tw	[23:11]
snarlydwarf	nifty, the .htaccess keeps all the params.. .so view_blog.php?blogId=39&offset=20 is the same as /blog30?offset=20 so i should be a bit more complex to deal with all the parameterized calls	[23:18]
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