[18:02] *** L0ggar starts logging #tikiwiki at Mon Sep 29 18:02:29 2008
[18:02] *** L0ggar has joined #tikiwiki
[18:05] *** marclaporte has quit IRC ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
[18:07] *** Caarrie is now known as Caarrie|away
[18:08] <PS|bot> SVN:  Commit by sewilco :: r 14897 /branches/2.0/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [NEW] Add galleryId to show_image.php to show one image from a gallery.  
[18:16] *** franck has joined #tikiwiki
[18:19] *** jasprit has quit IRC ("Leaving.")
[18:21] *** Simmi has left 
[18:21] *** philippeback has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[18:25] *** philippeback has joined #tikiwiki
[18:25] *** philippeback has quit IRC (Client Quit)
[18:26] *** philippeback has joined #tikiwiki
[18:29] *** MacLeod has joined #tikiwiki
[18:59] *** Caarrie|away is now known as Caarrie
[19:02] <PS|bot> SVN:  Commit by lphuberdeau :: r 14898 /trunk/tiki-wikiplugin_edit.php: [ENH] Support for all plugin syntaxes in plugin editor  
[19:10] <sylvieg> (01:55:41 PM) marclaporte: philippeback: : what is your Sourceforge username?
[19:22] *** Lucymoz has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[19:26] *** pkdille has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
[19:27] *** pkdille has joined #tikiwiki
[19:35] <SEWilco2> Odd.  I activated htaccess and the Admin icons changed back to the little old icons.
[19:39] <SEWilco2> Oh, well, time to update that site to trunk anyway.
[19:43] <PS|bot> SVN:  Commit by lphuberdeau :: r 14899 /trunk/lib/wiki-plugins/wikiplugin_cookie.php: [FIX] Bad extract in cookie plugin (thx pkdille)  
[19:48] *** xyblor_ has joined #tikiwiki
[19:48] *** xyblor has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
[19:55] <philippeback> my sourceforge id: philippeback
[19:56] <philippeback> very easy :-)
[19:57] <macjaeger> how inventiv :-)
[19:58] <sylvieg> ok philippeback added - I have no time to handle the ceremony now. Somebody want to do it ... otherwise it is : do you haev read the 3 rules and agree with them?
[19:59] <SEWilco2> http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=3Rules
[20:00] <philippeback> yes I did
[20:00] <philippeback> macjaeger: indeed :-)
[20:01] <philippeback> no issue sylvieg, just want to have my toolset ready and the trunk checkout here.
[20:01] <philippeback> will take a while to do I guess...
[20:02] <SEWilco2> Also see: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=How+to+get+commit+access
[20:02] <philippeback> done
[20:02] <philippeback> RTFM done :-)
[20:02] <sylvieg> thx SEWilco2
[20:02] <SEWilco2> Well, that's the first 2 parts of the ceremony.  Anyone remember the third part?
[20:03] <sylvieg> have a beer...
[20:03] <macjaeger> is that when he invites you for a drink?
[20:03] <lphuberdeau_> philippeback: you really read doc.tw.o and tiki for smarties entirely&
[20:03] *** Amorphous has quit IRC (Connection timed out)
[20:03] <lphuberdeau_> ?
[20:03] * SEWilco2 is fresh out of rum... starts boiling down Coke to get enough sugar.
[20:04] <macjaeger> :-)
[20:04] <SEWilco2> Shall we consider philippeback ceremonied, then?
[20:05] *** xyblor_ has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[20:05] * SEWilco2 recently went through the ceremony but the alcohol apparently erased part of the memory.
[20:06] *** Amorphous has joined #tikiwiki
[20:06] <macjaeger> maybe it's only sunken deep into the liquid... plunge into the bottle, see if you can find it at the bottom!
[20:07] <macjaeger> <-- doesn't drink alcohol at all, only makes me tired 
[20:07] <SEWilco2> I reckon you're in, then.  Welcome.  Submit if you've got one, else wait until after the hangover before coding more.
[20:08] * SEWilco2 drinks more in IRC than IRL.  Makes do with only the canned part of rum & Coke.
[20:18] <snarlydwarf> http://travel.webshots.com/photo/1399282039064817046nncasl?vhost=travel  ... a picture of rum and coke in a can.
[20:18] <snarlydwarf> tho some annoying ad crap before it.
[20:19] <macjaeger> i like the can
[20:20] <macjaeger> would make a nice addition to my fathers "canned art" collection
[20:20] <snarlydwarf> just have to keep SEWilco2 from drinkning the contents
[20:20] *** MacLeod has quit IRC ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
[20:20] <macjaeger> nay, we'd make a good team
[20:21] <macjaeger> him drinking, me collecting the can :-)
[20:21] <SEWilco2> ... or setting fire to them.  Need relevant illumination during the Ceremony.
[20:21] <macjaeger> oh yeah, i guess rum&coke might add up for a nice molotov surrogat?
[20:22] * SEWilco2 supports talking like drinking like a pirate.  Arr.
[20:22] <macjaeger> sorry, but you know that jack sparrow's already casted to mr. depp again?
[20:23] <macjaeger> too late to apply for that job
[20:29] *** lphuberdeau_ has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[20:33] *** franck has quit IRC ()
[20:41] *** djst has quit IRC ()
[20:42] *** lphuberdeau_ has joined #tikiwiki
[20:58] <philippeback> for full disclosure: belgium here :-D Who's speaking about a beer ?
[21:00] <philippeback> lphuberdeau, not sure if I read it all but definitely walked around for a (very) significant while. Same with the source code.
[21:00] <philippeback> I am using tiki as our groupware at metachannel SA, a startup where I am the CTO.
[21:01] <philippeback> We do pocasting solutions and tiki has been selected as my technical base of choice for developing stuff.
[21:02] <lphuberdeau_> nice
[21:02] <lphuberdeau_> how long have you been using it for?
[21:02] <philippeback> A year or so I guess.
[21:03] <philippeback> All meeting minutes, files, mp3s and documents are in.
[21:03] <philippeback> Also, we do use the blogs, the file galleries, image galleries, categories since we do use it for speccing systems for which the dev is outsourced.
[21:03] <lphuberdeau_> hmmm.... seems like you waited somewhere between 11 and 12 months too long before asking for commit access
[21:03] <philippeback> Also used modules to integrate flex apps we do and silverlight RIAs
[21:04] <philippeback> categories is really the feature that brought me to tiki
[21:04] <philippeback> w/ security permissions
[21:04] <philippeback> otherwise, we do use vtiger as CRM and I saw that there was a mod for integrating it into Tiki (not yet had time to look at it).
[21:05] <philippeback> On the CMS front, I have to continue filling in some content on the PromoSquad page on dev.tw.o (the What is a CMS). I do have about 50 pages more in word to type in.
[21:05] <lphuberdeau_> permission system both attracts and scare away people... quite fun
[21:06] <philippeback> Permission is a key selling point for Tiki IMHO
[21:06] <philippeback> without that, you only have groups and it sucks
[21:06] <philippeback> hierarchy + object perms ===> cool
[21:06] *** c_schmitz has left 
[21:06] <philippeback> and needed for giving limited access to partners without having to structure the pages all the time.
[21:07] <philippeback> In fact, I used to be a Java guy but PHP is now my choice for the web.
[21:08] <philippeback> Best thing is to use Quercus on something like Resin. PHP on JEE. That's very nice.
[21:08] <philippeback> Is tiki running fine on Quercus ? 
[21:08] <lphuberdeau_> what we really need is a comprehensive UI for permissions... unless you really know what you are doing, it's really complicated to understand what's going on
[21:08] <philippeback> Bah, once you get used to it, that's okay.
[21:09] <philippeback> There is intrinsic complexity in the model. Power will not come free.
[21:09] <lphuberdeau_> never heard of Quercus
[21:09] <philippeback> Quercus is a free .war that allows you to run PHP code on a java platform (caucho.com)/
[21:10] <philippeback> so, we can thing of scaling out a PHP app easily.
[21:10] <philippeback> Coupled with something like Terracotta, you can get a massively scalable application.
[21:10] <lphuberdeau_> there was some project by IBM to run PHP on the Java stack, replacing the Zend Engine basically... but it was pretty much destroyed by the core PHP devs asking about licencing issues... was one funny moment
[21:10] <philippeback> Quercus is alive and kicking. And Open Source.
[21:11] <philippeback> http://quercus.caucho.com/
[21:11] <philippeback> Quercus implements PHP 5 and a growing list of PHP extensions including APC, iconv, GD, gettext, JSON, MySQL, Oracle, PDF, and Postgres. Many popular PHP application will run as well as, if not better, than the standard PHP interpreter straight out of the box. The growing list of PHP software certified running on Quercus includes DokuWiki, Drupal, Gallery2, Joomla, Mambo, Mantis, MediaWiki, Phorum, phpBB, phpMyAdmin, PHP-Nuke, Wor
[21:11] <philippeback> So, Tiki not yet in the list !!!!
[21:12] <lphuberdeau_> you would need to try it
[21:12] <philippeback> I will have to.
[21:13] <lphuberdeau_> except the fact that you can write extensions in Java, it seems to do the same thing as Zend Platform... which is really a packaging of tools
[21:13] <philippeback> Well, here you put the war in your servlet engine and just configure the mapping for .php extension and bingo, just as PHP
[21:13] <lphuberdeau_> apc+memcached and you get similar results
[21:14] <lphuberdeau_> app still needs to take advantage of it
[21:14] <philippeback> well, yes. But: no filter features as in JEE
[21:14] <philippeback> or no jndi naming for the dbs
[21:14] <philippeback> no background taks
[21:14] <philippeback> memcached is cool indeed.
[21:15] <lphuberdeau_> I'm not really a java guy... kind of have other tricks to do all that
[21:15] <philippeback> if you have terracotta running on the JVMs, it makes a huge heap of lots of Gigs or RAM and everyhting shall run as a single box (mostly)
[21:15] <philippeback> Well, with memcached it is fine.
[21:15] *** PrezKennedy has quit IRC ("Leaving")
[21:16] *** PrezKennedy has joined #tikiwiki
[21:16] <philippeback> But my point is that we do ads delivery. I kind of integrated podcast tagging and search with file galleries and categories along with the ads server (openx)
[21:16] <philippeback> so this means a lot of invocations. Tiki shall be put the test there :-)
[21:16] <philippeback> Are you from France ?
[21:17] <lphuberdeau_> Montreal
[21:20] <nalioth> so what can you do with a tikiwiki?
[21:20] *** franck has joined #tikiwiki
[21:20] <philippeback> so, back to my Tiki-Fuing session :-)
[21:20] <Caarrie> what cant you do with a tikiwiki?
[21:20] <philippeback> Practice makes perfect :)
[21:20] <macjaeger> tikiwiki won't make coffee for me
[21:20] <nalioth> i just installed one and have no clue what to do with it
[21:20] <Caarrie> hehe
[21:21] <Caarrie> why did you install it?
[21:21] <nalioth> your website says blog/forum/etc/etc
[21:21] <lphuberdeau_> macjaeger, I've seen someone do coffee from PHP, so if that's all your missing... I can make a call
[21:21] <Caarrie> hehe
[21:22] <Caarrie> nalioth: http://twbasics.keycontent.org/ might help you some
[21:23] <lphuberdeau_> nalioth, tikiwiki has many features... depending on how you combine and configure them, it can do almost anything
[21:23] <nalioth> lphuberdeau_: mmkay
[21:24] <lphuberdeau_> what do you really want to do?
[21:24] <Caarrie> as i said [Mon 5:21:53 pm] <Caarrie> what cant you do with a tikiwiki? ;)
[21:24] <philippeback> coffee included, just write a mod
[21:24] <Caarrie> hehe
[21:24] <nalioth> so who wrote the 'for smarties' guide?
[21:24] <lphuberdeau_> ricks99
[21:24] <macjaeger> well, i guess i miss that ip-enabled coffeemachine
[21:25] <lphuberdeau_> (well, most of it I guess)
[21:25] * Caarrie laughs
[21:25] <philippeback> {drink(type=>coffee,sugar=>y,espresso=>n)/}
[21:25] <Caarrie> no sugar
[21:25] <Caarrie> and iced please
[21:25] <macjaeger> make tht DRINK
[21:25] * nalioth grumbles cuz it was full of Windows pictures
[21:25] <macjaeger> to stay conform
[21:26] <macjaeger> what's wrong with windows pictures, nalioth?
[21:26] <lphuberdeau_> macjaeger: no, it implied inwiring the controls and plugging them on a microconroller, and plugging it via a serial port... from there, PHP could read/write it like a file
[21:26] <philippeback> {DRINK(type=>coffee,sugar=>n,espresso=>n,iced=>y)/}
[21:26] <Caarrie> ;)
[21:26] <macjaeger> hmm... sounds promising
[21:26] <nalioth> macjaeger: i'm not using Windows
[21:26] <macjaeger> so?
[21:26] <lphuberdeau_> actually, from 3.0... {drink type=cofee sugar=y espresso=n}
[21:27] <philippeback> drinkcontroller.dll
[21:27] <Caarrie> not a dll :(
[21:27] <philippeback> ok
[21:27] <philippeback> drinkcontroller.so
[21:27] <Caarrie> better
[21:27] <philippeback> *nix forever :-)
[21:27] <nalioth> i will give teh 'for smartied' guide a glance
[21:27] <Caarrie> kubuntu/leopard ;)
[21:28] <macjaeger> give it more than a glance, it's really a good starting point
[21:28] <philippeback> I have to admit that my dev is done on Win. Used Ubuntu on a box for 3 months straight (only that, nothing else) in an enterprise environment. A nightmare !
[21:28] <macjaeger> even if the window frames are not what you're used to, the contents are the same on whatever system you're using
[21:28] <Caarrie> now try doing vb.net on linux :P
[21:28] <philippeback> Back to windows now for the laptops (with a VM running Ubuntu) and my servers running Debian Linux
[21:29] <philippeback> mono is quite ok. Dunno if vb.net exists;
[21:29] <Caarrie> the forms dont work
[21:30] <philippeback> We do Flex and Silverlight. Silverlight much easier to work with.
[21:30] <lphuberdeau_> philippeback, I've worked at a place where everyone worked from linux machines... over a hundred seats... was marvelous ;)
[21:30] <philippeback> Anyway, I do PHP, Java, Tcl/Tk and Flex. Silverlight work is outsourced in china.
[21:30] <macjaeger> i'm doomed to stay with windows as long as my employers like it better... and as that's a government there won't be any changes soon
[21:30] * Caarrie hands her eggdrop bot to philippeback to debug :P
[21:31] <philippeback> Well, WiFi sucked with some Cisco thingies using specific crypto
[21:31] <philippeback> eggdrop: cool !
[21:31] <Caarrie> i got 2 ;)
[21:31] * Caarrie points to PS|bot
[21:31] <philippeback> printers did not print properly (pics shifted by a few pixels)
[21:31] <philippeback> USB sticks just got scrambled by Linux
[21:32] <philippeback> OpenOffice saving in MS Office format : issues with drawings (not good when presenting)
[21:32] <philippeback> and : battery on linux: 1h30. On Windows with all proper drivers: 3h
[21:32] <Caarrie> i dont go on battery much, unless i am on my macbook ;)
[21:33] <philippeback> also, hibernate on laptop and linux: cross your fingers and expect to restart 2 times out of 3.
[21:33] <Caarrie> i dont shut down unless i _have_ to :P
[21:33] <philippeback> So, linux: ok for a dev box on a desktop.
[21:33] <macjaeger> linux for laptops is tricky
[21:33] <philippeback> I do move around all day long when I am making money for funding the startup.
[21:33] <macjaeger> at least
[21:34] <philippeback> well, 3 months of suffering I tell you.
[21:34] * Caarrie has a laptop running linux ;)
[21:34] <philippeback> I tried to do everything with it. I mean everything. apt-get was my best friend.
[21:34] <macjaeger> really depends on manufacturer
[21:34] <SEWilco2> info.tw.o has "DEVELOP TIKI" on a separate line instead of next to the other menu items.
[21:34] <philippeback> Dell
[21:34] <philippeback> Latitude D430, small 12" laptop
[21:35] <macjaeger> some build fine portables from selected, well known components
[21:35] <philippeback> Also, things like dia were not working when moving the file from linux to win.
[21:35] <macjaeger> others build as cheap as possible, using whatever chips they can get 
[21:35] <philippeback> all skewed 
[21:36] <Caarrie> i have a dell xps m1710 atm ;) :P
[21:36] <philippeback> yeah, but linux is great for some use cases
[21:36] <philippeback> xps cool
[21:36] <philippeback> here: Dell D430, Asus W1N, Asus A7V, Acer 5670 WLi
[21:36] * SEWilco2 wishes he owned an ATM.
[21:37] * macjaeger wishes he owned that ip-enabled coffeemaker right now
[21:37] <macjaeger> *sigh*
[21:37] <macjaeger> will have to go upstairs, do it manually
[21:37] <macjaeger> again.
[21:37] <Caarrie> hehe
[21:38] <philippeback> guarana seeds box near me :-)
[21:38] * SEWilco2 prepares an espresso double latte with sprinkles for macjaeger.  Pick it up at the MIT IP-enabled coffeemaker.
[21:39] <philippeback> back to tiki: what I do love is that it brings back the fun of coding  :-)
[21:39] * SEWilco2 could use with somewhat less fun on some days. :-)
[21:39] <philippeback> what I hate is that the CSS has to be tweaked like hell to get decent boxes.
[21:40] <SEWilco2> You volunteering to code a CSS box editor?
[21:40] <Caarrie> philippeback: the css is being worked on lately
[21:40] <philippeback> I've done a new box with an additional class instead of the cbox thing by default. So: cbox, myboxtype1, mybxtype2
[21:40] <philippeback> so colors can be changed, styles too
[21:41] <philippeback> bg=> is too limited
[21:41] <philippeback> looks like this: {T***BOX(title=>more about Services, bg=>#EFF0F0,topclass=tbox,float=>y)}
[21:42] <philippeback> so, colored boxes and with the proper size all around.
[21:42] <philippeback> why is float=>n the default BTW ?
[21:42] <philippeback> drove me nuts with css positioning
[21:43] <philippeback> Firebug good enough for me as CSS box editor as is WebDev toolbar CSS Edit :-)
[22:16] *** vilisi_t has joined #tikiwiki
[22:16] *** philippeback has quit IRC ("When the chips are down, well, the buffalo is empty")
[22:32] *** macjaeger has quit IRC ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)")
[22:33] *** SEWilco2 has quit IRC ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]")
[22:43] *** crybaby has joined #tikiwiki
[22:44] <crybaby> hello i am ready to shhot myself because tiki makes everything more difficult than it should nand my host provider is horrible!
[22:44] <crybaby> i need help please
[22:44] <crybaby> anyone
[22:44] <lphuberdeau_> slow down
[22:44] <crybaby> i need the latest tiki but wait what one is that
[22:44] <lphuberdeau_> 2.1
[22:44] <crybaby> they cant have just one link
[22:45] <crybaby> ok i go to 2.1 and there are several files which one
[22:45] <lphuberdeau_> 3 are the same, just different compression
[22:45] <lphuberdeau_> the last one is an incremental update if you are using 2.0
[22:46] <crybaby> NO I AM STARTING FROM SCRATCH 
[22:46] <crybaby> can you link me to the one link that i need to download the latest tiki to base my website around
[22:46] <lphuberdeau_> no need to scream, just use one of the 3 first files then
[22:46] <crybaby> which one
[22:46] <Caarrie> any of them they are the same
[22:47] <lphuberdeau_> they contain the same code
[22:47] <crybaby> are they all identical than why do they have 3?
[22:47] <Caarrie> [Mon 6:46:47 pm] <lphuberdeau_> 3 are the same, just different compression
[22:47] <crybaby> oh i see there tiki goes making things easy
[22:47] <lphuberdeau_> windows people like zip, but the compression is terrible
[22:47] <crybaby> ok gereat i have all 3 downloaded
[22:47] <Caarrie> tikiwiki is not _easy_ it takes time to use and learn to use
[22:47] <Caarrie> no
[22:47] <Caarrie> you dont need all 3
[22:47] <crybaby> i know that now thank you
[22:48] <Caarrie> he said that already to you
[22:48] <crybaby> so i am trying to FTP over to my host
[22:48] <lphuberdeau_> hum... please calm down... no need to be rude, we're really trying to help
[22:48] <crybaby> i know i am not trying to be
[22:49] <crybaby> i have been up for practically 4 days straight jsut to be able to edit my site
[22:49] <crybaby> mocha host =[
[22:49] <Caarrie> crybaby: try reading http://twbasics.keycontent.org/tiki-index.php?page=Manual%20Installation&structure=TikiWiki%20for%20Smarties
[22:49] <lphuberdeau_> get some sleep, it will help
[22:49] <crybaby> cant i use a tiki interface on this site to transfer files?
[22:50] <crybaby> ok thanks caaaarie
[22:50] <Caarrie> what tiki interface?
[22:50] <crybaby> i see the dude on all the tutorials use them
[22:51] <Caarrie> what tutorials?
[22:51] <crybaby> so are you saying i am done once i download all the tiki files on my server
[22:51] <crybaby> i have been watching tutorials on tiki for two days hang on
[22:53] <crybaby> i am having a lot of pc problems now i will be back and thanks =]
[22:53] *** crybaby has quit IRC ("CGI:IRC")
[22:54] <Caarrie> ok what was that about :P
[22:54] <lphuberdeau_> something to forget
[22:54] <Caarrie> that sounds like a good idea
[23:06] *** Jyhem has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[23:24] *** snarlydwarf has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)
[23:27] *** raji1 has left 
[23:27] *** raji1 has joined #tikiwiki
[23:27] *** MatWho has joined #tikiwiki
[23:29] <PS|bot> SVN:  Commit by matwho :: r 14900 /trunk/ (6 files in 6 dirs): [MOD] and [FIX] Added some new permissions for webmail to control who can use ond/or create mail accounts. Fixed lost of other errors in webmail. Improved error reports when connecting to POP server.  
[23:30] <MatWho> lost = lots
[23:30] <MatWho> good night all!
[23:31] *** MatWho has quit IRC (Client Quit)
[23:32] *** raji1 has left 
[23:54] *** Paragtim has quit IRC ("Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day")
[23:56] *** lph has joined #tikiwiki