#tikiwiki 2008-10-21,Tue

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Who	What	When
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lizi	Hi everybody chibaguy are you here ? I wanted to ask you, are you the author of the undergroud theme ? Have you noticed the problems I was talking about the other day ?	[05:19]
chibaguy	Hi lizi I'm not the original author, but I adapted it for Tikiwiki Sorry but what problems, again?	[05:24]
lizi	errr. various things :D divs are the wrong size, position of left and right column seems weird, etc oh and the "apply" buttons in the admin panel appear outside the div. just an example	[05:27]
chibaguy	Can you look at http://themes.tikiwiki.org/Underground and see if that page has the same problems with layout? Actually Underground originally is only two columns, left and center. I added the right column, too, for sites to have the option, but the theme works best with just left and center.	[05:29]
lizi	it does have the same problems	[05:31]
chibaguy	The margins in the stylesheet are optimized for left + center only. This is in the readme.	[05:31]
lizi	I can't test everything though	[05:31]
chibaguy	What browser are you using?	[05:31]
lizi	ff3	[05:31]
chibaguy	OK, same as I use for testing.	[05:31]
lizi	it may be I am too demanding the theme is quite good looking, it just has these annoying little things. Maybe it's because I'm a girl :D	[05:32]
chibaguy	not necessarily	[05:34]
lizi	My bf says there's too much fancy stuff and I should stick with the neat theme :P	[05:34]
chibaguy	the neat theme is crap (imho) ;-)	[05:34]
lizi	btw, the theme doesn't validate. I believe it says "Title" instead of "title"	[05:34]
chibaguy	OK, I'll run it through the validator again. Did you try hiding the right column? (using the link on the themes.tw.o/underground page)?	[05:35]
lizi	it's on the line that says design by st5yleshout I'll try now. but I like the right column	[05:35]
chibaguy	Ah, the santizing script hit that -- it can get out of control. or else a typo by me. You mean you like all three columns? In that case the margins or padding should be reduced. I should do a doc page on that. (uh, maybe that's your typo -- "st5yleshout"? 14:35 above?	[05:36]
lizi	thats my typo	[05:38]
chibaguy	ok	[05:39]
lizi	<a href="http://www.styleshout.com/" Title="Design by Styleshout">Underground</a> </div> see the title attribute	[05:39]
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chibaguy	Yes, what's the problem? or question?	[05:40]
lizi	the T doesn't validate :D	[05:40]
chibaguy	ah, ok, thanks. I'll fix it. Well, I'm interested to know specifically what problems you see with the layout, etc.	[05:40]
lizi	i removed the right column and I still have all the same problems	[05:42]
chibaguy	I know these themes aren't perfect. When I commit them to the repository, it's kind of like, ok, here it is to use and improve if anyone wants to.... I'm steadily finding things to fix, and do updates a few times a week usually.	[05:42]
lizi	hmm it's a bit difficult to describe all this stuff the original theme wich i just found on styleshout is fine it sucks very much because it's only using a fifth of my monitor, but everything else is fine in fact, your code is gpl, right? but their design has some sort of annoying license i was thinking maybe I'd roll my own based on your code, and repair the stuff I dislike then post it on TW what do you think ?	[05:44]
chibaguy	Their code is Creative Commons Attribution, which means you can do whatever you like with it as long as you leave a link to their site. Well, it'd be great if you wanted to do your own adaptation. Of course, if there are problems with this theme, they should be fixed, too.	[05:48]
lizi	well their code is the css, is that right ? the tpl is yours in fact i should check :D	[05:49]
chibaguy	Yes, I get their css file and look at their page html, then adapt to Tiki. ...kind of map their css selectors to Tiki's, and especially in this theme the header area is quite different from the (my) standard Tiki, so site-header.tpl and maybe tiki.tpl had to be changed some.	[05:51]
PS\|bot	SVN: Commit by chibaguy :: r 15246 /mods/trunk/themes/ (11 files in 11 dirs): [FIX] Make link title lower case to validate (thanks, lizi).	[05:52]
chibaguy	quick, eh? ;-)	[05:52]
lizi	yeah :D	[05:52]
chibaguy	I had my editor open already and did a search and replace.	[05:52]
lizi	:) hey I gotta go get some food brb :)	[05:53]
chibaguy	ok	[05:54]
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PS\|bot	SVN: Commit by chibaguy :: r 15247 /mods/trunk/themes/underground/styles/underground.css: [FIX] .height property of .clear was a mistake; removed.	[06:09]
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lizi	back. I see you are correcting underground chibaguy :P the css doesn't validate either btw :P	[07:03]
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lizi	are there any good tutorials for making TW themes from scratch ? or documentation ?	[07:08]
chibaguy	I haven't checked the validation in a while, so will again. Well, there's a little documentation, but it's out of date. :-\| I wrote this up a while back as background for the way I approach themes, and the path I recommend: http://themes.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Tiki_110_Theme_Ideas (General layout considerations, etc.) I generally start with this CSS file: http://themes.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Tikiwiki2_CSS_selectors It has selectors for *litecss-based themes (no table for main layout) and also for table-using layouts such as Kubrick, Dark Shine, etc., in mods.	[07:10]
lizi	ok	[07:14]
chibaguy	It also has color placeholders. This isn't perfect, but helps avoid light-on-light contrast problems. And it consolidates colors to some extent. I update this file from time to time as new selectors are added to the templates. For template files, there isn't an actual set that's a model. For full-width themes, I recommend the *litecss method for the reasons stated in that wiki page. You can use the files from /templates/styles/thenews or /darkroom or /feb12 , etc. They're all pretty similar if not identical. I use Firefox and the Firebug add-on to examine theme's pages in progress, or to check the original if I'm doing an adaptation. It is possible to do a new theme by making a stylesheet only, but in this case it will use the default template files. The default files in Tiki 2 are "old style", so using the tpls of one of the themes I mentioned will be more in line with what's planned for Tiki3. Actually I added the color properties to the model CSS file to help avoid dark-on-dark contrast problems. People add colors to templates or CSS files assuming the the background is always white/near-white and the text is always dark. -- engineers..... ;-) Doing some docs on theme-making is high on my to-do list.	[07:14]
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lizi	what's the body.jpg in ohia for ?	[07:48]
chibaguy	IIRC, I wanted a background for the header and footer areas that wasn't a solid color, so used an image. The reason I made it the body background is that when pages widen enough for a horizontal scrollbar, IE doesn't redraw the header bg, so it looks weird to me, only going as wide as the initial page width. (Now I'm noticing FF3 doesn't widen the body background image on widening pages, so I need to keep checking on this. ) IE will apply the body bg image full-width even when the page widens.	[07:51]
lizi	just saying this because body.jpg doesn't look like the body background or maybe I'm using 2 different versions	[07:53]
chibaguy	There's only one version as far as I know. But div#middle has a dark gray background, so body.jpg doesn't show completely. Well, this was kind of an experiment. I made the header and footer transparent-background and sort of guestimated window heights where the body.jpg would show through the way I wanted. It's pretty rough. (I mean bg image placement is a bit loose relative to things on top of it. But it never actually "breaks".)	[07:55]
lizi	might be a good idea to reduce the jpg then	[07:59]
chibaguy	It's only 1.19KB.	[07:59]
lizi	1 KB too large muahahahaha I was thinking about using ohia to do a plone-like theme that's why I've been looking around :D	[08:00]
chibaguy	Ah, one other point on the bg image. . . A more or less totally red image would worked well for the header/footer backgrounds, but on slow page loads I didn't want early-arriving text to not have the gray background, so I made the middle band of the bg image dark. btw, what is a plone-like theme?	[08:00]
lizi	the footer isn't an image it's just plain red plone.org	[08:02]
chibaguy	ah, I forgot to update the img name in the css file.	[08:04]
lizi	hmm maybe not after reducing the menus the page is now shorter and i can see a different red below the "powered by TW" box thingy	[08:04]
chibaguy	Yeah, the footer bg color, not image was being used. I just corrected it.	[08:06]
PS\|bot	SVN: Commit by chibaguy :: r 15248 /mods/trunk/themes/ohia/styles/ohia.css: [FIX] Wrong footer bg image name corrected.	[08:08]
chibaguy	Well, it's ok except the show php errors bg needs fixing..... Hmm, specifying a footer bg color/img conflicts what I said about them being transparent, so maybe I need to recheck my notes, etc.	[08:08]
lizi	do you know if it is safe to use png (any type) on the web nowadays ? without javascript hacks for IE ?	[08:10]
chibaguy	IE6 doesn't recognize alpha transparency in png. So uses a gray instead. Notice some of Tiki's icons.	[08:12]
lizi	do people still use IE6 ?	[08:12]
chibaguy	Plenty, unfortunately.	[08:13]
lizi	hmm well, blast em	[08:13]
chibaguy	I gotta go now. Will try to get back later. Thanks for pointing out the probs, etc.	[08:14]
lizi	ok :)	[08:14]
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lizi	was about to report an icon problem :D	[08:14]
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feindbild	hello :)	[12:10]
mac\|jaeger	moin	[12:10]
feindbild	I somehow can't give tiki_p_post_shoutbox and tiki_p_view_shoutbox permissions to the Registered group :/ I check the boxes, hit update but the perms don't appear :/ any hint?	[12:11]
mac\|jaeger	is shoutbox active? in features?	[12:11]
feindbild	tiki-assignpermission.php yes, the shoutbox is active, and it's module is added for all groups but only the admins group can view it :(	[12:12]
mac\|jaeger	sec, let me check here what version of tw are you running?	[12:13]
chibaguy	feindbild, you can try clearing your caches (tiki-admin_system.php). Sometimes that helps.	[12:13]
feindbild	no, still can't add permissions :/	[12:15]
mac\|jaeger	hmm, no problems here. adding and removing from registered without trouble so... what version?	[12:16]
feindbild	2.2	[12:17]
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mac\|jaeger	did you start with 2.2 or upgraded? if so, did it work before? (I'm still running a snapshot 2.2 alpha, your is more recent)	[12:17]
feindbild	I started with 2.2, never used tikiwiki before http://pastebin.com/m556e8955 those are the perms I already assigned ...	[12:18]
mac\|jaeger	can you add the perms to other groups? can you add other perms to registered (seems so)	[12:21]
feindbild	I can't add the shoutbox perms to Anonymous I just successfully added tiki_p_vote_chart to Registered group	[12:23]
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feindbild	but no shoutbox group :/ s/group/perms/	[12:26]
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ricks99	is there a way to iterate a {foreach ..} loop in ABC order? i want to modify cateobjects.tpl to show the objects in ABC order i know i can assign a sort order from the php, but i'd rather find a way in the TPL so my upgrades are easier	[12:47]
	something like {foreach ... order=ascending} maybe?	[12:57]
marclaporte	polom ricks99: : sometimes, accents are not alpha �tat ends up being at the end	[13:04]
ricks99	thats ok. this site is us english only i just want to somehow change the default to be a-b-c instead of last modified and don't want to have to change the php ('cause then i need to rmember to replicate the change for each tiki upgrade) *rick learned the hard way -- keep your mods to the TPLs and life is easier :)	[13:05]
marclaporte	hehe ricks99: :we are all "condemned" to collaborate :-)	[13:07]
sylvieg	there is a sortlink smarty block that can eventually do that	[13:07]
ricks99	"sortlink"? i can't find any such item on smarty.net	[13:09]
sylvieg	no it is our block it is sorting the html output .. it is used in the admin menu section	[13:09]
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ricks99	tiki-admin_menus.tpl?	[13:11]
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sylvieg	lib/smarty_tiki/block.sortlinks.php	[13:12]
ricks99	{sortlinks}....{/sortlinks}	[13:14]
sylvieg	yes ... it can work otherwise you acn have a look and sort on what you have...	[13:15]
ricks99	hm... close... it is stripping out the html <li> item </li> and i get just item item item item when i want: <li>item</li> <li>item</li> etc	[13:16]
	odd... it retains the </li> but strips out the <ul> and <li>	[13:23]
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lizi	do you know which tpl invokes siteloginbar ? I want to mod it but i cant find it	[13:34]
ricks99	tiki-site_header_login.tpl	[13:37]
lizi	cheers	[13:39]
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Simmi	Has anyone experience with the TRIM tool? Getting problems making instance.	[17:40]
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Simmi	I'm using Ubuntu Server 64bit. Maybe this is untested on 64bit.	[17:41]
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Simmi	I'm no Linux expert (I blame Amette - hehe) but I think there is a script error in ''make instance'. I followed the destructions in the TRIM setup, but, nothing seems to be going as planned. Would there be differences on a 32bit setup as opposed to a 64bit?	[18:38]
amette	hey - that's not fair!! :P lphuberdeau: you got some idea? -^ amette didn't work with TRIM yet at all	[18:43]
Simmi	Oh, you are still alive then ;-). I do not know if the mandated installed objects is ssh.so - I could not get this one to make into a package either, so just carried on.	[18:50]
amette	yeah, I'm getting more alive every day... feeling pretty good again today..	[18:52]
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amette	hmmm... from what you told about some ssh.so and so on... I'm really lost on your issue - sorry!	[18:52]
Simmi	Anyways, at least for me, it's busted and I have no idea on Linux - still an M$ girl	[18:53]
amette	g	[18:53]
Simmi	So, I hope someone will pick this up when they have time.	[18:53]
amette	well, it could be a 32/64bit issue for sure - as those libs are in different places on a 64bit system... that's really something that lph should be capable of answering rather easily, I guess as he built TRIM	[18:54]
Simmi	Simmi thinks amette had too many drinkies	[18:54]
amette	hehe, nope, not lately ;)	[18:54]
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Simmi	Simmi dreams of the old days of CPM and Digital PDP45's running RKMNSJ-11 twas much easier back then.	[19:07]
amette	I doubt so - or did they have retarted GUIs like windoze does? ;) s/ted/ded	[19:13]
Simmi	Um, nope, we had simple tools back then. A DataDynamics-390 was a mechanical teletype operating at the blistering speed of 100baud full duplex.	[19:16]
PS\|bot	SVN: Commit by sylvieg :: r 15252 /trunk/lib/filegals/filegallib.php: [FIX]fgal: fix remove pod files	[19:16]
Simmi	Oh, and paper tape to input programs with. oops, mistake 110baud - 10% faster - makes all the difference	[19:16]
PS\|bot	SVN: Commit by sylvieg :: r 15253 /trunk/tiki-list_file_gallery.php: notice	[19:19]
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amette	wow, that sounds like good times - the times in which people voluntarily chose telnet, cause it has to transfer less over the wire... ;) s/telnet/minicom :P	[19:25]
Simmi	Simmi thinks to self Telnet?? Telnet was not invented back then.	[19:27]
amette	yeah, and minicom is a rather new program for serial connections, too... but sadly I'm too young for that, you know? ;)	[19:28]
Simmi	mid 70's I'm wearing well.	[19:28]
amette	:)	[19:29]
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snarlydwarf	snarlydwarf misses z80 assembly language, but pretends that smarty is the same thing.	[20:14]
amette	ROFL :D	[20:25]
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sylvieg	did somebody try the zend_search_lucene ? we could put it in tikiwiki... we can even overwrite the permission on luicene with our permission.. http://framework.zend.com/manual/en/zend.search.lucene.html :P	[20:43]
lphuberdeau	saw a demo of it... works, but not quite google	[20:51]
sylvieg	yes google uses some natural language knowledge - like thesausus.... lucene not	[20:52]
lphuberdeau	certainly better than what we have or what mysql does	[20:53]
sylvieg	yeh - and it seems easy to implement http://www.phpriot.com/articles/zend-search-lucene	[20:53]
lphuberdeau	only the indexing part could be annoying	[20:53]
sylvieg	very simple yes but you can index in real time	[20:54]
lphuberdeau	you still need to extract the text from PDF and such... won't do it for you	[20:54]
sylvieg	you need a handler .... it is not the term - but seesm very easy	[20:54]
lphuberdeau	however, it means we bundle the zend framework... there is probably more stuff we can use from it, no doubt it's not meant to be broken down as there are dependencies between packages	[20:55]
sylvieg	- yes..... :P is there many cms out there witten with zend	[20:56]
lphuberdeau	I don't think so zend arrived after the big CMS wave... not so many new projects anymore it's mostly used for custom app development I think we could use the Zend_Auth parts of it to clean up our auth process among other things	[20:56]
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sylvieg	it is very seducing....	[21:00]
lphuberdeau	we have a lot of legacy, can't hope it will all go away, but we can clean up piece by piece	[21:01]
sylvieg	zend_mail can be a good candidate too	[21:04]
lphuberdeau	very clean, yes	[21:04]
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PS\|bot	SVN: Commit by lphuberdeau :: r 15254 /trunk/lib/ (search/searchlib.php searchlib.php): [MRG] Automatic merge, branches/2.0 15194 to 15221	[23:24]
sylvieg	and the guy I fixed the search on directory ... did not thank me - sometimes.....	[23:25]
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lizi	Hi everyone hmmm chiba's not around :'(	[23:57]

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