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WhoWhatWhen
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Tikiwiki|botSVN: Commit by lphuberdeau :: r 16036 /trunk/ (8 files in 5 dirs): [FIX] Multiple fixes in plugin alias and webservice plugins cause by other changes [NEW] Allow post requests to be made from webservice plugin [MOD] Loosen up handling of declared received types to handle bad services [17:20]
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GillesMMhello iw there a doc to upgrade theme from 1 to 2 version ? [17:53]
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Tikiwiki|botSVN: Commit by lphuberdeau :: r 16037 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): [MOD] Add UI to set filters on plugin alias [18:11]
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stefonHi... Can I ask you a question concerning permissions and categories?
sorry... I just read the topic *g* I tried to use categories to seggregate a tikiwiki installtion into seperate spaces which cant be seen from one another
like there is a group A which can edit some wiki pages and manages some forums and group B which has another set of wiki pages and forums and they cant see the other ones. Is this possible? 		[19:53]
lphuberdeaunot certain, may be really hard to do... improving this is on the roadmap [19:58]
stefonIsnt it possible to create categories for groups and seperating their objects (e.g. forums) for one another? [19:59]
lphuberdeauyes [20:00]
stefonI have this problem: I create a group called A, create a category called A and a user which belongs to group A
then i create a wiki page which gets assigned to category A
then I add the "view" permission of category A to group A
In my understanding, from this point on, users in group A should see this wiki page. Am i Wrong? 		[20:00]
lphuberdeauyou know of tiki_p_view_categories and tiki_p_view_categorized? [20:03]
stefonI know that you can assign groups the permission to view and another permission to edit a category. do you mean this? [20:04]
lphuberdeaucategory permissions are quite complex at this time
there are special permissions required 		[20:05]
stefonIs there a document (beside the http://doc.tikiwiki.org/ ones) about the category system and how to use them? Because if I understand you, it should be possible to map a organization with suborganizations, but i would be complicated [20:07]
lphuberdeaunot that I know of
there may be something in http://twbasics.keycontent.org 		[20:10]
stefonI read something about version 3 of tikiwiki, is this version in a usable state? [20:11]
lphuberdeauthe change you need is not made yet, likely to be in version 4 [20:12]
stefondamn *g* [20:12]
lphuberdeautw 3 is in dev and to be released in April 2009, first RC somewhere early March [20:12]
Tikiwiki|botWelcome to the official Tikiwiki English Irc Channel. TikiWiki or better known as TW, is your Groupware/CMS (Content Management System) solution, you can get more infomation at http://info.tikiwiki.org/ . [20:12]
stefonthx for your help... do you know of another open source groupware system which you find good? (i tested the popular ones and they didnt fulfill my needs, no usable forum systems for example) [20:14]
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marclaportestefon: : you can have many instances of tiki
This is what we are looking into: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Workspace 		[20:23]
stefonthe problem is: I want forums and wiki pages which can be accessed by members of the two sub organizations [20:24]
marclaporteI understand [20:25]
stefonLike having a forum for the whole organization and special ones for the suborganizations [20:25]
marclaporteIn Feb, we'll be working on this in Madrid: http://tikiwiki.org/TikiFestMadrid [20:25]
stefonSo is this possible (though complicated) in 2.2 and will the workspace feature allow me to do this easily? [20:26]
marclaportestefon: : you can do all that now if you give individual perms per forum / wiki page / etc., but this can only work up to a certain volume [20:26]
stefonassigning groups to categories want to the trick? [20:26]
marclaportehow many wiki pages?
how many users/groups/forums? 		[20:26]
stefonhmmm ... 10 sub organizations [20:27]
marclaporteok, so you make 10 groups [20:27]
stefonthey should be able to create forums which only they can see [20:27]
marclaporteand you add users to one or many groups
10 forums: you add perms individually on each (forget about using categories for this, just go one by one) 		[20:27]
stefonand what about allowing users in one group to create wikipages which can only be seen by their group and not the other ones?
and forums: it would be nice/necessary to allow the users to create forums themselves which ALSO can be only seen by their group...
impossible with 2.2? *g* 		[20:28]
marclaporteonly issue is wiki pages. Either you get the category permissions thing to work for you. Or you have to give perms for each
forums: that is a bad idea 		[20:30]
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marclaportehow many forums do you want? [20:30]
stefonI dont know... in the current system, suborganizations have around 10 forums and can administer them themself [20:30]
marclaporteusers can create new threads in each forum, that should be sufficient
so you can have different perms for each forum, with different moderators
10 forums is ok to administer manually
The only tricky part is the wiki page creation 		[20:31]
stefonyeah but I cant allow one user to create a forum for their group. if they want a additional forum, they have to ask me. Am i right? why is wiki trick?
y 		[20:32]
marclaporteyes, they ask you
(for forum)
for wiki, it's trickier because you may end up with hundreds of pages
so handling manually may be too much overhead 		[20:32]
stefonyeah, thats what i thought....
would the workspace concept solve my problems? 		[20:33]
marclaporteyes
and much more
it will segregate not just wiki pages and forums 		[20:33]
stefonis this concept getting integrated into 3.x or 4.x? [20:34]
marclaporte4.x for sure
too big of a change, can't sneak in 3.0 		[20:34]
stefonUnderstandable [20:34]
marclaportebut some people have got the category permission thing working
it's just tricky to setup
and there can be some weirdness 		[20:34]
stefonSo categories COULD solve my problems, if i get my head around them? [20:35]
marclaportelike someone adding a wiki page to a category and being locked out (not sure if this is accurate but the type of issue you could have) [20:35]
stefonThis would be something i could accept *g* [20:36]
marclaportestefon: : as far as what I understood from sylvieg: yes
You can also have page name collisions 		[20:36]
stefonOk then I will try to explore the categorie concept... 4.0 is not ready for a long time I guess? [20:37]
marclaportehttp://dev.tikiwiki.org/RoadMap [20:37]
stefon(page name collisions: this can be handled by explicit name conventions) [20:37]
marclaporteyup [20:37]
stefonImpressive RoadMap! Another questions *g* Is there a difference between 2.2 and 3 concerning the category system? [20:38]
marclaportehttp://dev.tikiwiki.org/Organic+Groups -> Many things are done in 2.x
stefon: the stuff in 3.0 in the roadmap is already coded. not vaporware. Currently available from trunk
http://ui.tikiwiki.org/ -> This is 3.0 		[20:38]
stefonYeah but the question was, does 3.0 make it easier to solve my specifiy grouping problem than 2.2 *g* [20:40]
marclaportestefon: : nothing that I am aware of
maybe some UI enhancements 		[20:40]
stefonis it advisable to use 3.0 in a more or less productive environment? [20:41]
marclaportedepends on so many factors
1- tolerance to instability 		[20:41]
stefonOk i try it to say it more concrete *g* [20:42]
marclaporte2- need for new features
3- if you have devs to fix things
4- which features you use (some are just as stable in trunk)
Many people on the dev team run production sites with trunk
but they know the risks and accept the consequences 		[20:42]
stefonThat a great difference to me, thats true *g* [20:43]
marclaporteand they let other people know when someone breaks something [20:43]
stefonWill there be a easy way to upgrade from 2.2 to 3.0? [20:43]
marclaporteyes [20:43]
stefonnice... [20:44]
marclaporteupgrades in tiki are always easy
because of all in one design
If you customize your templates, you may have to redo
especially from 2.0 to 3.0 because of major overhaul of UI 		[20:44]
stefonI seached for some months now for a decent groupware system and just recently discovered tikiwiki, dont know how i didnt knew about it before [20:45]
marclaportebest kept secret [20:45]
stefonYeah, a masterplan for a open source project: dont tell anyone *g* [20:45]
marclaporteso now, you are in the secret
:-) 		[20:45]
stefonthe first rule of tikiwiki is... *g* [20:45]
marclaportehehe
If you have trouble sleeping
and what to know everything that's wrong with TikiWiki
And everything that's right
http://tikiwiki.org/SWOT 		[20:46]
stefonOk so now i know that MAYBE i can get the system to work by investing my time in exploring the category system .. thats a rather valuable information. Thx for that! [20:47]
marclaportehttp://marclaporte.com/TikiSucks [20:47]
stefonNice picture of yours *g* [20:47]
marclaportestefon: : and try to catch sylvieg with your questions about categ perms
stefon: : do you code? 		[20:47]
stefonDou you think it would be wise to formulate my problems and post in to you tikiwikis mailing list?
i'm a programmer, decent in java, little bit in php 		[20:48]
marclaporteSurely, as you are using for 10 units, you will find bugs, and ways to improve Tiki. It's very important to share: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/How+to+get+commit+access [20:49]
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marclaportestefon: : yes, it's very important to formulare on a wiki page, linked from the workspaces pages. We should make sure that the new code addresses it [20:49]
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stefonI dont know if you would be happy with my php coding abilities *g* but thx for your confidence [20:50]
marclaportestefon: : did you look at trackers?
hehe, some bugs are trivial, but with lots of eyeballs... 		[20:50]
stefonTrackers? Not really [20:50]
marclaportein a corporate context, the combination of trackers and wiki is where TikiWiki really becomes amazing [20:51]
Tikiwiki|botSVN: Commit by lphuberdeau :: r 16038 /trunk/lib/categories/categlib.php: [FIX] WYSIWYCA... breaking profiles [20:51]
stefonIm not really in a corporate context, more in a NGO organization which is distributed in a country (Austria) [20:51]
marclaportestefon: : http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Tracker&redirectpage=Trackers [20:52]
stefonwe are paying for a proprietary groupware system which sucks *g* Using open source would be way better [20:52]
marclaportestefon: : do you need multilingual capacities? [20:52]
stefon(which doesnt mean that we would not want to invest money also in open source *g*) [20:52]
marclaportestefon: hehe [20:53]
stefonWe are speaking german mainly, so i dont think this is needed for our organization [20:53]
marclaporteor invest time from people in your NGO
To solve your needs and to be useful to tens of thousands of other TikiWikis 		[20:53]
stefonIf we would be big enough, sure *g* but we are around 100 people being full of work to change the university and education system... sadly there is little room beside being politically active
BUT sharing is a thing we support for sure 		[20:54]
marclaportestefon: : with trackers, you can empower non programmers to build simple applications [20:55]
stefonInteresting, there might be situations we could need them [20:55]
marclaporteI can 100% guarantee that within a year, you'll be using trackers more than the other features! [20:56]
stefonIF i am able to get categories to work with forums and wikipages *g* [20:56]
marclaportethe ultimate flexible groupware tool
haha, yes
just wiki pages
forums, you can do manually 		[20:56]
stefonbtw. I read something about using IMAP and tikiwiki. is this advisable? using tikiwiki as a webmailer for an IMAP server? [20:57]
marclaporteAFAIK, IMAP is not supported
only POP
and webmail is quite basic 		[21:00]
stefonOh ok... maybe I got this wrong [21:00]
marclaporteThere has been some work in 3.0 webmail
to improve
as a group inbox thing 		[21:00]
stefonso much features to explore, so little time *g* [21:01]
Tikiwiki|botSVN: Commit by lphuberdeau :: r 16039 /trunk/ (8 files in 2 dirs): [MOD] Missing alter in the table [21:01]
marclaporteand more work is ongoing, in the context of a charity, where several people are responding to inbox [21:01]
stefonwhich would be a use case for my organization
sylvieg: can i ask you something about categories? marclaporte recommended me to ask you 		[21:01]
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sylviegyou can ask - not sure I will answer
will be able to answer 		[21:13]
stefonsylvieg: i have one organization with around 10 suborganization. the goal is to have some forums and wikipages which can be accessed by all members of the organizations. some forums and wikipages should only be accessed by suborganizations.
sylvieg: is it advisable to use cateogories to accomplish this? 		[21:14]
sylviegyes why not [21:15]
marclaportemarclaporte thinks Sylvie is the authority on this topic... :-) [21:16]
sylviegyou have only 2 ways to organize - groups and catregories - so you have to find the appropriate way to assign group /categ [21:16]
stefon*g* there were some voices in the channel who werent that sure about this
so i CAN have a group which has permissions for a category which allows it to have a list of forums and wikipages which only they can see. can I appoint a user who is able to create forums for this subgroups or do I have to do this for them? and can the members in the subgroup create new wikipages themself which only can be seen by members of their group? 		[21:16]
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sylviegperhaps some aspects are still missing for your case - but it is not a big deal to implement them'
we have some comments about this in a page about tiki feast montreal with the last detail of a discussion we had 		[21:19]
stefonnice to hear. Ok then I will try to accomplish my goal with the categories. Is there a prefered location where I can document my experiences and problems while organizing the tikwiki in that way? like a howto wiki or something? to be of help for other people with similar needs? [21:21]
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sylviegwhereever you want ... the page I was speaking about is http://tikiwiki.org/Technical+Group [21:25]
stefonThx for you all, now i try to implement your suggestions. Ill try to contribute back to you during this proccess
Have a nice day! 		[21:27]
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Tikiwiki|botSVN: Commit by sylvieg :: r 16040 /trunk/lib/categories/categlib.php: [FIX]what_is_related: check for perm for each object [21:41]
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Tikiwiki|botSVN: Commit by sylvieg :: r 16041 /trunk/templates/tiki-admin_tracker_fields.tpl: [MOD]tracker: a remarks box to explain the role of fieldId when exporting [22:21]
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xTremePowerhello all [22:26]
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lphuberdeauwiki way graphics are fun... http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Webservice_Sequence_Diagram [23:50]
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