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   CIA-71: tikiwiki: 03luciash * r16820 10/trunk/templates/tiki-admin-include-general.tpl: [ENH] introducing tabs smarty block: propagate everywhere ;)
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   CIA-71: tikiwiki: 03luciash * r16821 10/trunk/templates/tiki-admin-include-features.tpl: [ENH] introducing tabs smarty block: propagate everywhere ;)
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   CIA-71: tikiwiki: 03luciash * r16822 10/trunk/templates/tiki-admin-include-look.tpl: [ENH] introducing tabs smarty block: propagate everywhere ;)
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   CIA-71: tikiwiki: 03luciash * r16823 10/trunk/templates/tiki-admin-include-general.tpl: [ENH] commiting the AdminUIRevamp improvements by ricks99 (http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Regrouping+the+General+Admin+page)
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   vector: tikiwiki is pretty cool, I just started using it but I have some questions
   <br> I created a couple of accounts that have admin rights as well as other rights and wrote an article.  Then I create a regular user account (from an admin via add user) but whent I log in as that user, no articles can be seen
   <br> Is there an automatic role/scoping feature going on here?  If an admin writes an article, only admin's can see it?
   <br> wow, active channel here...:)
   ricks99: @vector: did you give the other groups permission to read/view articles?
   <br> @luciash: OMG! glad u thought it was good enough to use... i guess i'll start on other admin panels ;)
   vector: I looked at permissions for registered users and saw that they could submit.  I suppose I assumed that if they could submit then they could read as well
   ricks99: no. submission &lt;&gt; read
   vector: Yes, I know they are not equal...nevertheless, submit would be intuitively a "higher" function and one would expect that if one has submit then one would have read??
   ricks99: nope. tiki has *highly* configurable perms
   <br> see docs for details
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   vector: I would say it probably needs better defaults then.  Being able to submit articles that can not even then be read is sort of silly
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   mapkook: !help
   Tikiwiki|bot: You can get a more complete list of commands that work with this bot at http://tikiwiki.org/TikiBot .
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   stripmind: new user here. I've been working within the kubrick template, and when I place a module within a wiki (center column), the module displays as if it's width were limited by the witdh of the left or right column. I've noticed that other templates (moreneat, for example) do not do this. I was hoping someone might either point me in the right direction for figuring out how to correct this, or...
   <br> ...advise me not to bother, as there may be a better solution that I'm not aware of.
   chibaguy: stripmind, the module widths are set by the theme CSS file. Sometimes div.box (the module's container) is specified. Sometimes the side column widths.
   <br> In the case of Kubrick, it's the module box, so you can add div.wikitext .box {width: 100%} (or whatever) to kubrick.css.
   stripmind: thanks chibaguy. I'll check it out.
   chibaguy: ok
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   vector: OK, I am still having trouble.  The permissions page claims that tiki_p_read_article is inherited from Anonymous but both anonymous and the registered user I am testing with can not read the article I created from the admin account
   <br> It does not even show up on the article home page
   <br> ehlo?
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   SEWilco2: <u>vector</u>: Which version of TikiWiki?  And are there Categories involved which have permissions?
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   chibaguy: vector, maybe some confusion about terms. "article" isn't a wiki page.
   <br> It's a news-type article.
   <br> (just making sure on this point)
   <br> tiki_p_view is the permission to see wiki pages.
   moj0rising: hi. I've enabled the search modules to my wiki but they are not appearing on the site for any users other than the admin user. I've checked the documentation and the forums but didn't see anything on this. Has anyone seen this problem before?
   <br> I'm running v2.2 btw
   chibaguy: moj0rising, I suspect there's a permission needed for Registered or Anonymous group (depending on who you want to use the search).
   moj0rising: So by that do you mean something different by the group permissions whereby you can associate that module with the groups who's pages you would like the module to appear in?
   <br> ...checking the admin console now...
   chibaguy: Check the "Group" link under "Admin" in the default menu...
   moj0rising: k...
   chibaguy: tiki-admingroups.php
   <br> Then the "key" icon for the group concerned.
   <br> The perms are a long list so I usually search in page for, say, "search"....
   <br> ...there's a tiki_p_search that needs to be assigned.
   moj0rising: bizarre. that worked.   :)
   chibaguy: bizarre?
   moj0rising: tiki_p_search, yep. was just going to say.
   chibaguy: ah
   <br> :-)
   moj0rising: haha. yeah. I would have never guessed that.
   <br> but it works so I'm happy.
   <br> thanks a ton, chibaguy.
   chibaguy: Recently categories have been given more permission powers, so if you use categories and run into permission problems, check the perms again...
   <br> ... for, like, tiki_p_search_categories or whatever might help.
   moj0rising: ah. all right. I'll try to remember that too. basically, I'll try to remember whenever I can't get something to work or appear, I should check that permissions page as well as anything else that might be pertinent.
   vector: Well tiki_p_view is checked as well
   <br> also inherited from Anonymous
   chibaguy: Is it a wiki page or article that can't be seen?
   vector: not sure what the difference would be between an article and a news-article but in the menu on the left side where it has all the features like Blogs, Forums, etc...there is one for Articles
   <br> What is the one I am using..should I not be?
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   chibaguy: By article I mean what's seen at tiki-view_articles.php. Sometimes people say article when they mean a wiki page, so I wanted to be clear.
   <br> Are you using categories, and is the article categorized?
   vector: I did specify some categories but I do not recall if I gave it one
   <br> Is that a prerequisite for viewing to function?
   <br> Ahh, just checked...I did put it in two categories
   <br> and I do recall seeing something about an "auto assigning permissions" checkbox which was always checked while I was creating them
   chibaguy: Ok, then there's a tiki_p_view_categorized perm that needs to be given.
   vector: AHH...thank you!
   chibaguy: about auto assigning, I think that may mean the permission is inherited by subcategories, but am not really sure...
   vector: makes sense...thnx
   chibaguy: or by objects in the category.
   vector: Doh, another dead end...it is already checked for both Anonymous and also for registered since it inherits anonymous
   <br> tiki_p_view_categories and tiki_p_view_categorized are both checked for anonymous
   chibaguy: If perms were changed recently, sometimes you need to log out and back in to see the effects.
   vector: haven't needed to change any yet...all the ones people are referring to area already granted event to anonymous
   chibaguy: Or clearing the caches never hurts (tiki-admin_system.php)
   vector: no good...still nothing
   chibaguy: About articles in particular, they have a publish date, so be sure that time has arrived already, for regular visitors to see them.
   vector: except for users with admin rights
   <br> Good call, but again, published over a day ago
   chibaguy: hmm
   vector: maybe it isn't approved??
   chibaguy: that could be it
   vector: Hmm, when I click on "View Submissions" as an admin there is nothing listed
   <br> and the article does show up (only as an admin) in that little "since your last visit" box where it says "new articles" which is wierd because it is always there even though it isn't new since my last visit..
   <br> Expire date says 2010 so that isn't it
   <br> visible flag says "y"
   chibaguy: last visit is last logged-in session, so that'll display unless you log out and back in (regarding that point)
   <br> but I've noticed some quirks there too so maybe how the browser handles cookies could also be involved.
   <br> Time zones aren't a factor are they?
   vector: perhaps...I really just need anonymous and registered users to be able to view the articles getting submitted.
   <br> I don't think so.  The article has been published for the better part of a day
   <br> Tiki is configured for 0 hours ahead or behind GMT but in reality I am about 7 hour behind it
   <br> but the time is set correclty
   <br> Hey, I noticed something...there is a view_articles_header permission that I do not see in the "assign permissions" list of permissions while editing groups or individual users
   <br> I do however see that permission when editing the permission for the specific article.
   <br> and they appear not to be granted on that article...not sure why though..
   <br> Was it because it was authored using an account with administrative rights?
   chibaguy: It shouldn't matter, I think.
   vector: Yeah, it has something to do with the categories...I just removed it from categories and now anonymous is picking it up again.
   <br> very odd
   chibaguy: I see the tiki_p_articles_read_heading permission in the list but it isn't checked on my site, but doesn't seem to have an effect on article viewing.
   <br> Articles should be able to be categorized and still be visible according to permissions, so I don't know what the problem might be.
   vector: How do you get rid of that Tikiwiki Assistant box on the left bottom side of the screen?  I think I know my way around the menus, and have all the doc home pages for tikiwiki book marked so it really isn't adding value at this point
   chibaguy: That box is a module, so go to tiki-admin_modules.php and click the remove icon (X).
   vector: Ahh, is that a place where I can place custom assistance for users of my site???
   chibaguy: Yeah, "Create new user module".
   vector: I see it keeps changing context based on the page I'm on....
   chibaguy: what does?
   vector: The tikiwiki assistant
   <br> can I customize what shows up in there for anonymous users, registered users, etc..?
   <br> I want to thank you for all your help!  You've been awsome!
   chibaguy: Sure, no problem. Also check doc.tikiwiki.org and the Tiki for Smarties site.... just a second...
   <br> http://twbasics.keycontent.org/
   vector: wow...sweet!
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   stripmind: thanks, chibaguy for the css pointer. looks fine now.
   chibaguy: ok, great.
   <br> Probably for Tiki 3 it'll be default behavior for modules to be full-width in the wikitext.
   stripmind: cool
   chibaguy: People can always put them in a div of specified width if they want them narrower.
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   stripmind: one of the modules I'm trying to place within the wiki is a forum-display module that would show last posts from only a specific forum. Since I've got numerous forums, and not all are relevant to a particular wiki page, I thought there might be an id parameter for setting that limit, like there is for {gallery id=n} or {poll id=n}, but  I don't see that as a possibility for defining the...
   <br> ...existing "forums_last_topic" module.
   <br> I've tried creating user modules with things like: {forum id=8 max=5}, and also placing the existing module in the wiki as:
   <br> {MODULE(module=&gt;forums_last_topics,id=&gt;8,align=&gt;left,max=&gt;5) /}
   <br> I've been reading the smarties guide on placing forums in wikis, as well as the docs on modules, module admin, and the predefined forum modules, but no luck. Am I missing something or do i need to edit tpl or php files?
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   luciash: polom polom polomorning
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   stix: Hi guys. At the bottom of all my wiki-pages, the content of the page's category is shown. Can you remember where I turn this off?
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   luciash: <u>ricks99</u>: you're welcome
   <br> <u>stix</u>: Admin &gt; Wiki iirc
   stix: is iirc short for something? Cannot find it
   luciash: "if i remember correctly"
   <br> :)
   stix: oh :)
   luciash: lemme have a quick look
   stix: sry
   luciash: hmm i don't find it either
   <br> now i'm not sure if it's optional actually
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   stix: it has to be - I get a huge list of pages on each wiki
   luciash: <u>stix</u>: you can workaround it by removing tiki_p_view_categories permission from the group i think but then your users cannot browse the categories too
   stix: the users has to be able to browse the category as I list the contents of categories on different wikis
   luciash: <u>stix</u>: what version and theme ? maybe it's hardcoded in the theme tpl file
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   stix: yes I am using a custom theme and running version 2.2
   <br> do you know what I should be looking for?
   luciash: <u>stix</u>: templates/styles/your_theme/tiki-show_page.tpl
   <br> <u>stix</u>: found out there's feature to be switched off for it
   stix: oh nice
   luciash: feature_categoryobjects
   stix: what is it called?
   luciash: have to find the GUI for it still ;)
   stix: okay :)
   luciash: <u>stix</u>: ok, it's on Admin &gt; Category
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   stix: yes, they are gone now :)
   <br> thanks for helping
   luciash: np :)
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   Kutti: Hi everybody, how to create the workspaces in aulawiki? can you help plz?
   <br> is there anybody ?
   -: damian just having breakfast
   chibaguy: Kutti, sorry, I'm here but have no experience with aulawiki.
   Kutti: ok chibaguy, thanks
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   Kutti: anybody else knows abt aulawiki?
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   luciash: <u>Kutti</u>: wait for xavi or ask at users mailing list or TW forums
   Kutti: <u>luciash</u>: how do i go to user mailing list
   luciash: <u>Kutti</u>: http://sourceforge.net/projects/tikiwiki
   <br> <u>Kutti</u>: click on Public
   <br> then Mailing Lists
   <br> there's tikiwiki-users
   <br> you can subscribe there
   mycomputer: Hello everyone : I am still looking to the trackers and I succeeded in creating a tracker and a field your name. I wanted it to try to if it works. I have no problem as administrator but I do have one with a registered user. I give the permission to the registered users group to be able to watch, insert a new item. When I try to insert a new item as a registered user, I have a link "insert a new item" but not field is displayed
   <br> I also actived the option "Field is public"
   <br> And the Field is not hidden
   Kutti: Thank s luciash, i will wait for xavi to come,
   mycomputer: The field is visible by registered users and editable by admins
   <br> The permissions that I activated for the registered users are : tiki_p_create_tracker_itemsDelete, tiki_p_list_trackersDelete, tiki_p_view_trackersDelete, tiki_p_watch_trackers
   luciash: <u>mycomputer</u>: what version and theme ?
   mycomputer: version 2 and darkroom theme
   <br> It shows the name of the field when I activate the option "Field is mandatory?" but not when I do no activate this option
   luciash: what type of field is that ?
   mycomputer: I tried two : textfield and textarea
   <br> I have this as admin http://cjoint.com/data/cumwqaHd4C.htm
   luciash: hmm
   <br> ok :) i'll look
   mycomputer: and this as registered user http://cjoint.com/data/cumxz50kP4.htm
   <br> thanks luciash
   luciash: for votre nom i'd use text field, not textarea
   mycomputer: I try
   <br> give the same problem
   luciash: you need tiki_p_modify_tracker_items
   <br> to Registered
   <br> or Anonymous
   mycomputer: OK. I will look
   luciash: err, sorry, you shouldn't need that for creating new items
   mycomputer: No that gives still the same problem
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   mycomputer: ok
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   mycomputer: Should I try to change of theme ?
   <br> I tried the default theme but still the same probem :)
   luciash: didn't you selected Visible by: on tiki-admin_tracker_fields.php ?
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   mycomputer: When I go to this page I have the following message : No tracker indicated
   <br> Euh sorry mistake
   <br> I chose the option registered users for visible by
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   mycomputer: The field is also public and not hidden
   <br> http://cjoint.com/data/cumN53Ygzw.htm
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   luciash: <u>mycomputer</u>: i just created test tracker on my 2.2 SVN copy and it works
   <br> <u>mycomputer</u>: do you want my tracker export ?
   mycomputer: yes
   <br> I'm curious to know what I did wrong : I guess something stupid :)
   luciash: http://pastebin.com/d63bb21e5
   mycomputer: thanks. I try it
   <br> I have imported it : I try to create a field to see if it works
   luciash: create item or field ? textfield "Subject" should be already there
   mycomputer: there is no such textfield
   luciash: ah, damn, you're right, it exports/Imports only tracker but no fields
   <br> i think i have to use Export CSV data
   mycomputer: I created a field and still the same problem :)
   luciash: lemme send you the csv file
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   mycomputer: How does it works exactly? How to import it?
   luciash: <u>mycomputer</u>: get it here → http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-download_wiki_attachment.php?attId=693&amp;page=UserPageluci
   mycomputer: thanks I downloaded it
   luciash: you save it to your disk and then go to tiki-admin_trackers.php?trackerId=1 &gt; Import/Export &gt; Import CSV data
   mycomputer: ok I did it
   luciash: and my Group has these perms: tiki_p_create_tracker_items, tiki_p_list_trackers, tiki_p_view_trackers
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   luciash: <u>mycomputer</u>: last thing i hope you did in case you upgraded: tiki-admin_system.php?do=templates_c
   <br> gotta go out for a dogwalk, lemme know, bbl
   mycomputer: I have set the same permissions
   <br> Strange. Still the same problem
   luciash: isn't your tracker categorized ?
   mycomputer: Sorry I do not understand. What do you mean?
   luciash: if you categorize some object you have to take care of the permissions of the categories
   <br> cleared the cache ?
   <br> on tiki-admin_system
   <br> i'm running out of ideas and now i really must go with the dog ;)
   mycomputer: OK thanks for everything :)
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   ricks99: hi all :)
   luciash: hi ricks99
   ricks99: hi luciash
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   ricks99: the admin: general still needs some tweaking (espeically in ie)
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   ricks99: is there still a need for the "other" tab?
   <br> not very meaningful....
   <br> i think i'd prefer to see those options elsewhere
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   luciash: <u>ricks99</u>: sorry, was in jabber talk with xavi :)
   <br> <u>ricks99</u>: yup, but Other or Misc is sometimes very useful when ppl don't know where to put it ;)
   ricks99: gonna try tinkering a bit more...
   -: luciash is lookiing forward to use http://phplens.com/lens/adodb/docs-adodb.htm#php5 drivers with Tiki
   luciash: <u>ricks99</u>: you maintain info.tw.o ?
   ricks99: +/-
   luciash: i'll send you logo in the style of doc.tw.o
   <br> sent
   <br> <u>ricks99</u>: how was the link to 2.x version ?
   <br> of info.tw.o
   ricks99: last i saw it was ok, but some intertiki issues?
   luciash: yes, intertiki doesn't work because current info.tw.o is 1.9 or something
   <br> i cannot login there
   ricks99: log in current site, then manually switch url in ur browser bar (worked for me)
   luciash: i cannot login in current info.tw.o site and i forgot the link to the 2.y test
   <br> *2.x
   <br> URL
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   ricks99: http://info.tikiwiki.org/2.0/
   luciash: <u>ricks99</u>: thank you
   CIA-71: tikiwiki: 03ricks99 * r16824 10/trunk/templates/tiki-admin-include-general.tpl: [ENH]UI tweaks. added more help links. css fixes for ie
   ricks99: 1 thing with the new logos... how to handle translation, with the text in the logo now?
   luciash: <u>ricks99</u>: i am able to login to the 2.0 site, can we upgrade it to 2.2 and switch with the current ?
   ricks99: go for it
   luciash: <u>ricks99</u>: do you think it's so important to have these little quotes translated ?
   ricks99: well... i speak english 100%, so it doesn't matter to me :)
   luciash: <u>ricks99</u>: but we can remove tham and overlay with real text also
   <br> <u>ricks99</u>: if you feel it as an issue
   ricks99: again, im a native english speaker so issue at all for me. simply an observation
   luciash: :D
   <br> ricks99, the observer :)
   ricks99: the *english-speaking* observer
   luciash: CMS/Groupware is also untranslantable ;)
   ricks99: i guess as long as the ALT is translated, it will b ok
   luciash: i'll try to dig out the login credentials to info.tw.o server
   ricks99: k. and reset theme to thenews to match other sites
   luciash: <u>ricks99</u>: thanks for the login trick ;)
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   luciash: <u>ricks99</u>: why you re-added the &lt;table class="admin"&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td&gt; to the general admin again ?
   ricks99: to force the fielset width to 100% (in ie)
   <br> otherwise, they are all different widths and look (IMHO) bad
   luciash: hmm, there must be other way than this workaround, i'll look into it
   <br> which IE ? IE6 or IE7 ?
   ricks99: ie 7
   luciash: ok
   ricks99: im sure u can find a better way. i also needed to add the clear:both to the parent divs to fix indentation issues
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   luciash: adding width: 100% for fieldset in thenews.css should help
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   ricks99: y. ideally all the style info should be moved to the css. i was a bit hesitant, however. how to introduce a new admin/global style to *all* css?
   chibaguy: ie7 handles 100% widths in strange ways IIRC, so needs to be watched. I don't recall the details offhand.
   luciash: hey gary, right
   chibaguy: Maybe ie6 could get a px width for the admin page fieldsets.
   luciash: <u>ricks99</u>: there's css/admin.css iirc
   <br> <u>ricks99</u>: or transitions css
   <br> <u>chibaguy</u>: that would be fixed then, or how would you count it ?
   ricks99: @chibaguy. id prefer to replace all PX with EM measurements, this way they scale better when users select different sizes
   <br> @lucicash..  ahhh admin.css. VERY good
   luciash: <u>ricks99</u>: em's are useful only for IE, all the modern browsers scale px nicely
   chibaguy: sure, if ie is ok with that, I am :-) .
   luciash: also better rendering of px depending on your screen DPI set in Opera and FF than with ems or %, then they become too unreadable from my experience
   ricks99: ie is (IMHO) pretty modern. i know ya'll are anti-MS, but in the real world IE still rules
   luciash: but all depends on the base body font-size, so i also prefer em font sizes everywhere else
   -: chibaguy snickers
   luciash: <u>ricks99</u>: IE7 or 8 is pretty modern, i talk about IE6 crap
   <br> lol, snickers :D
   <br> mars
   chibaguy: :-)
   ricks99: crap is in the eye of the beholder. ie 6 still has a significant market share
   chibaguy: about 22% or so, last I checked.
   ricks99: quite significant
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   ricks99: looking at anaylics, 29% of doc.tw.o visitors are ie6 (feb 1-14, 2009)
   chibaguy: I think we should try to make our sites basically work in ie6, but I don't sweat minor layout problems in ie6 any more. It isn't worth it, I think.
   luciash: market share doesn't talk about how "modern" the product is
   <br> <u>ricks99</u>: could you add a detect of IE6 to the Tiki installer and encourage Tiki admins to install IE7 at least ? ;)
   chibaguy: For example, if modern CSS allows an enhanced appearance for modern browsers, then those browsers get it, but there's no need to work hard to emulate the effect with extra code for ie6.
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   ricks99: .... how about a detect any non-ie and redirect to ms.com :)
   luciash: we have to kill that IE6 "modern" browser all together ;)
   <br> <u>ricks99</u>: even M$ itself would appreciate it if IE6 users upgraded to more secure browser like IE7 ;)
   ricks99: sorry, but for most folks operate under a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality. i still have my win95 pc that's running just fine :)
   chibaguy: I have a kind of split attitude. On the one hand I think we should encourage moving to modern browsers. On the other hand, we need to make Tiki as useable as possible for the largest user group possible.
   <br> And realistically, as Rick says, a lot of people do still use ie6.
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   chibaguy: So for them, the site should be functional, at least.
   Yoni: i agree we are getting into ie6 user all the time.
   <br> hi all :)
   luciash: <u>chibaguy</u>: why do we release security upgrades/fixes then ? let users still use Tiki 1.7.2 ;)
   <br> yo Yoni
   <br> it works too (until you get cracked :-p)
   chibaguy: heh, well, we want to do the best we can on our side.
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   chibaguy: hi Yoni
   luciash: if we will support IE6 indifinitely, we will support unsecure crap and those people will never upgrade their browser ;)
   ricks99: again. if its woring. is it really "crap"? bluetooth is quite unsecure, but i see folks using it all the time
   chibaguy: But I don't think they'll upgrade just because TikiWiki causes problems for them. They'll blame us for making bad software.
   <br> "all the other websites work." ;-)
   Yoni: agree again
   luciash: if all sites would stop to work in IE6 suddenly, that would be funny :)
   chibaguy: Like right now I don't like seeing the javascript errors when I use IE to look at tiki sites.
   Yoni: :) you suggest we wait for that ?
   chibaguy: (but am too ignorant to fix)
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   ricks99: @luciash: still upgrading info.tw.o?
   <br> getting "XMLRPC Error: 5 - Didn't receive 200 OK from remote server. (HTTP/1.0 500 Internal Server Error) " on login
   luciash: imagine how far we could be without caring for those IE6 and lesser incompatibilities... alpha transparent PNG support, no weird rendering bugs, resizable fonts, ...
   chibaguy: Maybe we could start a movement to have a "Don't support IE6" day, as a protest. I'd be for that.
   luciash: <u>ricks99</u>: not yet, the XMLRPC error is the intertiki incompatibility still
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   ricks99: or... imagine how many users we would loose if we we only focused on xperts  :)
   luciash: <u>chibaguy</u>: +1 :)
   SEWilco2: <u>ricks99</u>: "#!/bin/bash;  # CGI for missing 200 OK error.; echo "200 OK"; # Copyright 2009 SEWilco"
   ricks99: goes back to ... what is the overall goal/roadmap? how do u measure "success"
   chibaguy: Well, I think as a product, tw should support everyone possible. But as a principle, I agree with luciash that we should encourage leaving the old browsers behind.
   luciash: <u>ricks99</u>: i think Tiki is worth of one little upgrade... imagine how many users we will loose now with PHP5 only support ;)
   <br> <u>ricks99</u>: this is more serious change to me than supporting IE6 fully
   ricks99: i agree (PHP upgrade). can u image GMC saying to car owners "sorry, if ur car is more than 5years old, the dealers will no longer service it)
   chibaguy: Also tiki 3 has quite a big footprint.
   <br> Nearly 80MB.
   luciash: <u>ricks99</u>: actually, that's what happens with old cars :-p
   SEWilco2: svn commit -m "[BUG] Fix IE6 problems with Theme config option to block access from IE6.  Default message points to FF download page." lib/admin/adminlib.php
   chibaguy: Or they just charge you so much it makes more sense to buy something newer.
   <br> Such as trying to repair electronic equipment these days.
   luciash: SEWilco2 rocks ! :D :D :D
   ricks99: its cheapre for me to mainain my 1981 chevy than my '03 honda
   SEWilco2: <u>luciash</u>: If only it were that simple.  :-)
   ricks99: * rick misses his carburetor
   -: SEWilco2 teaches ricks99 how to use the sight on his shotgun.
   chibaguy: OK, by that measure, let ie6 users fix their web browsing problems.
   luciash: :D
   ricks99: they'll fix it by going elswehere
   <br> my joomla sites work fine in ie 6 ;)
   chibaguy: true, which is why I say as a product, tw should support ie6.
   SEWilco2: <u>chibaguy</u>: Yeah, that's it.  An AJAX tool which lets IE6 users edit their IE6 binary files.
   chibaguy: :-)
   luciash: your sites with content in tables you mean ? :-p
   chibaguy: I wonder what the profile is on these ie6 users. I have to struggle to avoid having ie7 installed on my ie6 test box.
   ricks99: sorry. but blaming the end-user for using the 'wrong' browser is a typical developer-centric view.  nothing wrong with that per-se, just not how i see things. 'nuff said
   SEWilco2: <u>chibaguy</u>: Publish the most-altered IE6 files of users who manage to return to the site with their modified browsers.  Eventually someone will fix everything.  :-)
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   luciash: we support IE6, it works in it, but if ppl want modern look, they should upgrade to modern browser
   chibaguy: i agree with that, luciash.
   luciash: as far as it's accessible and usable i don't won't to bother to make it look exactly the same and polished in IE6
   SEWilco2: Maybe it would help to support multiple browser-oriented versions of themes, so IE6 branches are isolated.
   luciash: <u>SEWilco2</u>: no way
   SEWilco2: Browser-based themes might allow better support of phone browsers too.
   chibaguy: There's some defacto sorting just based on what CSS each browser supports.
   luciash: <u>SEWilco2</u>: no-one would be eager to maintaining it
   chibaguy: Already we have gray backgrounds on icons in ie6 because they don't support png transparency. I think that's ok.
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   SEWilco2: <u>luciash</u>: It might make maintenance by IE6 people easier.  But then they'd fix other things in their branch and not in main branch.
   luciash: <u>chibaguy</u>: i agree
   <br> <u>chibaguy</u>: we could use that PNG fix for IE but it's waste of resources
   chibaguy: unfortunately, the people using ie6 and the people who can fix things are two distinct groups with no individuals in common, I think.
   luciash: <u>SEWilco2</u>: yep, it would lead in some weird IE6 forking :-p
   SEWilco2: <u>luciash</u>: As opposed to the present weird IE6 merging.  :-[
   chibaguy: It's hard enough just finding people who run Tiki on Windows or test and fix with any IE browser.
   luciash: *g*
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   chibaguy: Questions about running on a Windows server usually go unanswered. We've had js error messages in ie for ages....
   luciash: i think at least admins of tiki should care about security and modern browsers... the benefits for them are enough reasonable to upgrade their browser... and for visitors the user part of website is pretty well usable and accessible even if they use IE6
   <br> admins as people who install their tiki i mean
   ricks99: i dont know. i think most tiki 'admins' are just regular users who want a website.
   luciash: so fixing IE6 related bugs should be done mainly on the Tiki user side, not that much important in the Admin interface
   <br> yup, website for free and right now with no work, i see ;)
   ricks99: seriously. y. thats what i get with wordpress :)
   luciash: and unlimited support with no contribution ;)
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   chibaguy: My impression is we get all kinds of people who want to run Tiki, some are individuals, and some are doing it for a commercial project or organization.
   ricks99: 90 : 9 : 1 rule. 90%  are consumers only -- no contribution. fact of life
   chibaguy: Especially for the last two, I think it's good for us to make TIki solid on all browsers.
   luciash: yep, i don't think most of our users are IE6 "i don't care" people
   chibaguy: (but solid doesn't mean beautiful.)
   luciash: so we wouldn't even lose too much on the other hand ;)
   <br> (on the admin interface side)
   ricks99: who do *you* see as the tiki target audience? commercial users/admins?
   chibaguy: I worked in the office of one company in Japan were Win98 was still being used because "it works" and they didn't want to invest to upgrade.
   luciash: we're not accessible to everybody anyway (requiring cookies, javascript on some parts, etc.)
   chibaguy: So there was a lot of ie6.
   <br> Don't know how typical that is.
   ricks99: i think 'very' typical. if it ain't broke, don't fix
   luciash: can't you install anything else on win98 for a browser ? i have a friend who used until last week win95 with Opera on it, because it was simply faster and more user friendly than IE
   chibaguy: No, I think IE7 requires XP.
   -: luciash can't imagine company with internet connection which doesn't let you install or use anything else than the most secure IE6
   chibaguy: Heh, these are people who run all MS products not realizing that these products are the cause of most security problems.
   luciash: i see, but i wonder what percent of such important websites do not work in FF or Opera today
   <br> so they still have a choice to use something else on Win98 than IE7
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   luciash: nevermind, we'll not force IE6 users on the Anonymous or Registered user side to upgrade or change their browser or make it unusable in it but shouldn't we tell the Admin side that Tiki is much more fun with modern browsers ?
   <br> and secure ;)
   chibaguy: That makes sense to me. Actually I don't think ie6 users actually miss any functionality, do they? Only small details of appearance afaik
   ricks99: * rick thinks u need more compelling reason thn "fun"
   luciash: <u>ricks99</u>: s/fun/anything good/ ;)
   ricks99: again, if it is already working in ie6, why should i change?
   chibaguy: Probably the security aspect + appearance would be the main reasons to upgrade, right?
   luciash: <u>chibaguy</u>: i found two showstoppers recently for admins: one in FF and one in Opera
   chibaguy: really?
   luciash: &gt;devtwo bug2323
   Sug4r: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/bug2323
   luciash: the other one i didn't report yet, but it's when assigning permissions to a group in opera the layout is broken making it inacessible
   chibaguy: ah, I noticed the page columns were messed up in admin categories, but didn't look any closer...
   luciash: <u>chibaguy</u>: the problem is it looks ok when there's no category yet, just after adding one it happens
   <br> <u>chibaguy</u>: right security + look and feel + better usability
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   luciash: <u>ricks99</u>: what do you suggest to do with this ? abandon and delete ? → http://info.tikiwiki.org/info_tw_o_110/tiki-index.php
   ricks99: well... i guess we never got the 'super cool' new tw themes.
   <br> trash it i guess
   <br> &lt;sniff&gt;
   <br> &lt;sob&gt;
   luciash: ok, sniff
   -: Caarrie hands out tissues
   ricks99: it sure was a pretty experiment
   luciash: thank you Caarrie, bueheheh
   Caarrie: ;) yw :P
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   CIA-71: tikiwiki: 03wggley * r16825 10/trunk/ (templates/tiki-view_tracker.tpl tiki-view_tracker.php): [MOD]tracker: Changing checkbox viewitem to 2 radios(View inserted item and Insert new item) so the user can be redirected to the insert new item page to continue entering items.
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   luciash: <u>ricks99</u>: i've made a backup of the customized files to ~/backup/infotwo_110_revamp/
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   lq_954: Hi.  I'm running tikiwiki 2.2 as a brand new site for managers to share info.  Trying to enable watches so they can track changes, but I get a database query error: "Column 'email' cannot be null.  I don't know where it's trying to find the e-mail address to fix this.  Or maybe it's some other problem.  Any ideas for me?  Not a techie, but I try hard.
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   SEWilco2: <u>lq_954</u>: In Admin&gt;General make sure a email address is defined so we can label who the mail is from.
   <br> <u>lq_954</u>: Each user also needs their email address defined in Admin&gt;Users (usually done when account is created).
   lq_954: I just verified that both of those are populated correctly.
   <br> It works if I'm logged in as admin, but not as a regular user.
   <br> Perhaps a permissions issue?
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   MatWho: Hi all
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   CIA-71: tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r16826 10/branches/experimental/jquery/ (36 files in 9 dirs): [MRG] Automatic merge, trunk 16808 to 16825
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   danopia: hai
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   tom-v415: I'm considering using TikiWiki as part of project to author some online help - I was really impressed with the features that come "out of the box"...
   <br> including the translation stuff, and the ability to generate WebHelp in seconds
   <br> But I noticed that the webhelp output didn't show any way to get to the translated version of the same pages..
   <br> So if I  build a structure in English, translated it to Japanese... there was no way to get to the Japanese translation..
   <br> I'm curious about two things - how do I find the relevant bit of code that generates the WebHelp export?
   <br> How should translated pages inside a structure link to eachother?
   <br> Anyone familiar with this?
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   SEWilco2: tom-v415: A "grep -i webhelp *" reveals a file called tiki-create_webhelp.php exists.
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   tom-v415: <u>SEWilco2</u>: Thank!!
   <br> <u>SEWilco2</u>: that is...thanks
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   SEWilco2: tom-v415: You're welcome. De nada. Gre'chipt.
   tom-v415: arigato gozaimasu.. danke...etc.. :-) off to face the client... :-)
   ricks99_: @luciash: info.tw.o working fine now. tx!
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   lq_577: i'm trying to customize the tikiwiki login screen to look more or less like the sugarcrm login screen. can anyone help me? all i want is a box at the center, a user field, and a password field
   ricks99_: you can edit the base smarty template: ../templates/modules/mod-login_box.tpl
   philback|away: @lq_577: kick the login box off the sidebar
   <br> make the home a secured wiki page
   <br> and if not logged in, you'll get the login box
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   philback|away: then move to style the mod-login_box.tpl look like sugarcrm (As I do use sugarCRM, I'dd better have a tiki-like login box is sugarCRM). Well, we do use VTiger now :-)
   lq_577: thanks.. made phill's changes already.. the tpl location was what i was looking for :)
   <br> when I edit the template, do I put it in a subdirectory called override or something?
   ricks99_: when customizing styles, it is best to create your own, rather than chagning the default.
   philback|away: have to put it in a folder called after you style
   <br> e.g. mystyle.css --&gt; mystyle/mystuff.tpl
   ricks99_: then tell tiki to use your custom style
   philback|away: like use mystyle.css (will use your style stuff if exists, standard tiki tpls if nothing to be found)
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   philback: <u>question</u>: what is the dojo lib for in the trunk ?
   lq_577: then somehow I direct the login module to use mystyle.tpl?
   philback: and all the Zend framework seems to come too in Lib/
   ricks99_: @lq_577: pls see docs: http://themes.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page_ref_id=10
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   lq_577: basically what i'm trying to remove i 'Go back' 'Return to home page' and make the login box less massive. everything else is fine. i would also like to remove powered by tikiwiki on the login page, no need to broadcast that
   ricks99_: the GO BACK and RETURN TO HOME PAGE are *not* in the login module
   <br> these appear from the error page (you are trying to access a restricted page)
   <br> you need to edit the error.tpl template
   philback: sticking your copy inside templates/styles/&lt;yourstyle&gt;/modules/mod-login_box.tpl maybe ?
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   philback: never tried with modules
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   cpendleton: Hello, I am trying to perform a full wiki export from an older version of tikiwiki (1.9.4).  I am given an export.tar to download, but the archive appears truncated after the letter C.  Untarring the file produces errors and exits.  Any ideas?
   <br> after wiki pages starting with the letter C that is
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   cpendleton: or, put another way, is there a way to export the wiki pages from a command line or some other way?
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   philback: mysqldump ?
   cpendleton: sure, but I am looking to get the export in tikiwiki's export.tar format
   philback: well, no clue then.
   cpendleton: anyone know what might cause the export to truncate?  php.ini setting, bugged tar library, etc?
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   ricks99: <u>q</u>: is there a way to "move'" a category (and its objects)?
   cpendleton: here is the error produced when untarring export.tar:  http://pastebin.com/d4e43fcf6
   ricks99: For example, I need to move Top &gt; Foo (and its objects) to Top &gt; Foo &gt; Bar
   <br> is his possible?
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   cpendleton: can't you reparent the category?
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   cpendleton: or, rename Foo to Bar, create a new Foo and make it Bar's parent?
   lq_901: ok.. so i've done some more customizing. now the only thing i'm stuck on is how to remove the the blue bottom bar from the login screen, and how to decrease the width of the cbox element which contains the login screen
   ricks99: duh! reparenting. of course
   <br> tx!
   cpendleton: yep
   ricks99: @lq_901: u can edit the css
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   lq_901: ok... but wont it change the width for eveyrthing, not just the login?
   ricks99: u can apply the style directly in the TPL
   <br> &lt;div style="width: XXXXpx"&gt; ...
   <br> you've already customized the TPL anyway, right?
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   lq_901: thanks should have thoght of that.
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   marclaporte: polom
   <br> doc.tikiwiki.org issues are known?
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   CIA-71: tikiwiki: 03ricks99 * r16827 10/trunk/templates/tiki-change_password.tpl: [ENH]use consistent field names (from registration page), inform users of pw restrictions, show pw strength meter
   sylvieg: I was not connected this lat 24 hours - my desktop died... is there a place where 'decisions' made in tikifestmadrid are described - I need to do 1) "send a mail to somebody to join a group" "automatic group creation" on item tracker creation with group tracker" or "group creation plugin with automatic tracker assigment' (I do  not know yet which one)
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   sylvieg: s/decision/consensus - I am sure I do not see all the aspects of the topic - but better to go in the general current
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   marclaporte: <u>sylvieg</u>: : most of it was videotaped
   <br> I hope some people will fnd the time to edit and make available
   <br> the most major/interesting idea that came out was "perspectives"
   sylvieg: via ustream.tv? or a real video taping
   marclaporte: real
   sylvieg: was not able to understand erally the sound in ustream.tv on sunday/monday...
   <br> url?
   marclaporte: Xavi has one part and matthew the rest
   <br> I don'
   <br> I doubt it's already available because it need editing and compression before being usable on the web
   <br> There are some pics on tikifest page (of whiteboard)
   sylvieg: .. ok will do some plugins tomorrow - they can be replaced .. I am so late on this job...
   marclaporte: I am very pleased http://info.tikiwiki.org/ has new theme and is at 2.2
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   marclaporte: thank you to whoever is responsible
   -: sylvieg do not like this theme
   enrique_hot85: hi
   sylvieg: it is why I never but it official
   enrique_hot85: hi
   <br> hi
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   sylvieg: I remember some fight soem time ago about theme 'ennuyeux' with mose..
   marclaporte: <u>sylvieg</u>: did you see strasa.css?
   <br> I almost miss the fights with mose :-)
   sylvieg: the one uses on info?
   <br> :-)
   <br> sorry marc info is not sexy - or we do not have the same definition about 'sexy'
   <br> straca wil be better - coe will be better - my 2 cents
   marclaporte: it is not unlikely that sexy is different for you and I
   <br> you being a woman, and I, a man
   sylvieg: between info.tw and joomla.org
   marclaporte: joomla is much nicer
   sylvieg: why not using one of gary style...
   <br> not newt
   <br> ... we need more theme contributor perhaps..
   MatWho: Please let Soozy Pauline my two designers and me fix the two.p sites all o need is the name
   sylvieg: <u>MatWho</u>: :-)
   <br> :-)
   MatWho: Please give me the name
   sylvieg: thx
   <br> name?
   MatWho: Marc get me the name
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   marclaporte: hehe
   MatWho: Is it tiki tikiwiki or what
   sylvieg: is the name so important ?
   MatWho: He he is very anoying
   <br> The name it vital
   sylvieg: which one will be more sexy?
   MatWho: I can not do a design without the name
   marclaporte: There are several bottlenecks in the way
   sylvieg: I think both are ok now - th ecommunity is known with both name
   MatWho: The important thing is can we have to trade mark
   nkoth3: Anyway, Tiki will be part of the name
   marclaporte: some of which I have control, some, not
   nkoth3: it should be enough to design on
   sylvieg: if to be conservative is not a problem to creativity - go for tikiwiki
   marclaporte: We need somebody who is skilled with legal aspects to deal with lawyers and we need money to pay lawyers
   sylvieg: if tiki opens doors - go for it
   MatWho: Yes but it is silly for me to spend mony on a design if we get trade mark problems
   sylvieg: so tikiwiki]
   nkoth3: we won't have any problem with tikiwiki
   <br> this one for sure
   MatWho: We need a laser to check it put before we start
   sylvieg: yeh
   MatWho: Laser is laser
   <br> Laser is lawer
   sylvieg: :-)
   marclaporte: I need a budget for a lawyer
   <br> And I need someone to coordinate with this lawyer
   MatWho: It is so simple please can you do it soon
   sylvieg: simple to do a sexy desing?
   marclaporte: or someone to take stuff off my plate so I may take the time to deal with lawyers
   MatWho: I thought you had support fr some organisation in Canada
   nkoth3: that was me
   <br> But I haven't slept for the last 24 hours so I haven't had time to chase after the signature
   <br> to pay for the lawyer
   MatWho: Doing the design is very easy just sort the. Name out and we can start ok the design
   <br> Ok is on
   sylvieg: <u>MatWho</u>: agree - it is only to have time - time to review code - time to write doc - time to simplify code ... a lot of time
   MatWho: I have 3 briliant designers waiting to start
   <br> I thought pascal was sorting out the laser
   nkoth3: Matwho - surely it is possible to design based on TikiWIki, and should we decide to truncate to Tiki , or go one step further and try something like TikiWiki CMS/Groupware shortened, your design would still work
   MatWho: No
   <br> No
   <br> No
   sylvieg: <u>MatWho</u>: please spend the minimum - only to have something a little bit more appealing
   MatWho: No
   <br> I can only brief the designers with the name finalised sorry that is the only way they work
   <br> I will use all the great work from the last tiki test wokshop as well
   nkoth3: anyway, when I am back in Canada next week I will chase after the person who promised to pay for the lawyer
   MatWho: The result will be much better than jpomla
   <br> Pleas it pains me to wait much longer!
   sylvieg: I agrre with MatWho - but my concern was only to give some red cheeks to info
   MatWho: I dealt have made an incredible offer to the yw community here the designers are world class and you should not waste this oportunity
   sylvieg: ?me missed something
   <br> if they can not wait ... it is tikiwiki
   marclaporte: I am very pleased that there is all this energy and potential.  I am sorry to say that with everything on my plate, with the work backlog, with Louis-Philippe gone, with RecentChangesCamp which starts in a few days, followed by TikiFest, and PhpQuebec Conference, and the 3.0 work, I am unable to invest time &amp; money on the lawyers for the trademarks &amp; all
   <br> I won't have free time for at least a month
   MatWho: Ok so I can wait
   <br> Lot of other things to do:)
   marclaporte: But there are many people in the community, it shouldn't slow because one person is too busy