#tikiwiki 2009-04-18,Sat

lindon

it cut the total pages almost in half

marclaporte

you are fast!
Thank you very much

lindon

no problem, they were bothering me too

marclaporte

next mass operation once amette does svn up will be to approve all the risky plugins in use
did you look into profiles any?

[01:25]

lindon

no, haven't looked into profiles
should I?
I'm happy to help on the mass operation but i'm not sure what it means to approve risky plugins

[01:27]

marclaporte

Profiles will fundamentally change TIKI
It's good that you have an idea of what they do

[01:30]

lindon

thanks for the tip, i'll start looking into it

[01:32]

marclaporte

All your work on doc.tw.o prompted me to make some profiles
You went through all plugins
So I made: http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Test_all_Plugins
his brother: http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Test_All_Modules
sister: http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Test_All_Menus
etc...
and a cousin :-) http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Test_All_Themes

[01:33]

lindon

wow

[01:43]

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[01:44]

lindon

using the code on those pages you were able to cause another page to include all plugins, modules, etc?

[01:44]

marclaporte

lindon: : do you have a copy of 3.0?

[01:50]

lindon

yes, i have 3.0 beta 1

[01:50]

marclaporte

hmmm
Beta4 is better!
hang on, I give you a test run
http://demo.tikiwiki.org/mysql/

[01:51]

lindon

thanks man!

[01:54]

marclaporte

password coming soon
http://demo.tikiwiki.org/mysql/tiki-install.php

[01:55]

pick Company Intranet
lindon: : check PM for password

[02:04]

lindon

looks like i need to set the database connection?

[02:08]

marclaporte

yes
this is a clean install

[02:12]

lindon

okay, i can use a database on my server?

[02:17]

marclaporte

use the user/password/database name I sent you via IRC
(as private message)
and leave host as localhost

[02:21]

lindon

got it

[02:22]

i'm in and it looks good - i'll test it out
thanks again

[02:33]

marclaporte

So I think profiles can become a sort of advanced documentation

[02:38]

lindon

how do you mean?

[02:40]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r18080 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-bot_bar.tpl: [FIX] Fix version number when using __lastup__

[02:43]

marclaporte

1- Instead of tutorials, the profiles can do it for you
and it has notes in the procedure to explain what it's doing
so you can understand "recipe" and adapt for your needs, and share
1- wiki pages can be distributed as profiles
So we can distribute specific docs for specific contexts
so if you install a feature, a copy of the documentation is copied to your wiki

[02:43]

lindon

so the documentation would be part of the install and not a separate site?

[02:47]

marclaporte

we could have that option
The long term generic doc will always be online
but we can distribute short snippet in the app

[02:47]

lindon

like the tutorial idea too
don't know enough to quite picture it
but i know you're right!

[02:52]

marclaporte

There used to be a tutorial to do this: http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Exchange_Market
with 15-20 steps
now, just a few clicks

[02:58]

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[03:03]

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marclaporte

for the record, here is "old" way: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Linking+trackers

[03:23]

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[03:27]

lindon

marclaporte: got disconnected
was looking at the last link you gave me
this profile stuff is heavy (for me!)
still getting my head around it
looks amazing though
just need a little time for the light bulb to come on

[03:28]

marclaporte

marclaporte: for the record, here is "old" way: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Linking+trackers
We have been working on this since last summer

[03:30]

profiles were secret feature of 2.0

[03:36]

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[03:37]

lindon

need to study the profiles site
found the page explaining the syntax and handlers
if i look at this and examples i should be able to start getting an idea what can be done

[03:40]

marclaporte

yes, exactly

[03:43]

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[03:48]

marclaporte

polom chibaguy_

[03:51]

chibaguy_

hi marclaporte

[03:51]

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[04:13]

marclaporte

I about doc & dev synchronicity
about doc & dev synchronicity: I would like doc & dev to link to each other if the current page is part of the "keywords" category
I guess I can do that in Site Idenity
Can I execute Smarty in a wiki page?
Part of me hopes so

[04:19]

lindon

site identity in general preferences doesn't have much to it
not sure how to use it for synchronicity

[04:29]

chibaguy_

site identity is more or less to 'personalize' the site
-- logo, site title, etc.
Catching up on the log here, I don't see the connection to synching either. ...
unless SI is extended some way from what it does now.

[04:30]

marclaporte

If I am on doc.tikiwiki.org/Blog, I want the page to say, "This is documentation about blogs. For Feature requests and bug reports, please see: doc.tikiwiki.org/Blog"

oups

If I am on doc.tikiwiki.org/Blog, I want the page to say, "This is documentation about blogs. For Feature requests and bug reports, please see: dev.tikiwiki.org/Blog
and vice versa
of course, we can do this manually
But I am trying to figure a way to automate this

[04:31]

chibaguy_

To generalize it, how about a wikiplugin that gets the current page name and has an argument that is the external domain?
Then prints the sentence as you wrote it.
Of course this still needs adding the plugin to the page content.

[04:33]

marclaporte

which is why I am thinking of categories
but plugin alias would work for what you say
so we can make that without hacking tiki code, and have central management

[04:34]

chibaguy_

chibaguy_ recognizes 'plugin alias' as item on list of items just outside current realm of understanding...

[04:35]

marclaporte

hehe
so we can update the sentence later on
chibaguy: what is your favorite plugin?

[04:36]

chibaguy_

hmmm

[04:37]

marclaporte

just so I can give real example :-)

[04:38]

chibaguy_

well, I use Article here and there.

[04:39]

lindon

chibaguy: you did the Feb 12 theme, right?

chibaguy_

yes

lindon

it's excellent
great job

chibaguy_

oh thanks.
I wanted something pretty generic.

marclaporte

chibaguy_ do you use any parameters to Articles plugin?

chibaguy_

Yes, marclaporte, (I meant articles not article): {ARTICLES(max=>3)}{ARTICLES} is used at themes.tw.o, for example.
lindon, also wanted something with more white space than Tiki themes had in the past (they were really condensed looking).

[04:43]

lindon

totally agree

[04:45]

marclaporte

So say you want to re-use this and not have to indicate max=3
{NEWS()}{NEWS} could become an alias for {ARTICLES(max=>3)}{ARTICLES}
and the max=>3 is managed at one place.
so later, you can change from 3 to 5
and no need to update all wiki pages

[04:45]

chibaguy_

ah, ok.
can you also make instance-specific variations? like what if you want {NEWS()}{NEWS} to usually have (max=>3), but in one case want {NEWS(max=>5)}{NEWS}?
(just wondering if this works)

[04:47]

marclaporte

I am pretty sure it works

[04:50]

chibaguy_

Getting back to the documentation synch thing....
how would that work?

[04:51]

(that is, I wonder what is alternative to putting the 'documentation_link' plugin on every page manually?)
Actually this is like a frequent feature request: 'how can I automatically apply a content template to wiki pages at creation time?'

[05:01]

marclaporte

Something like this in Site Identity: {if isset($objectCategoryIds) and in_array(1, $objectCategoryIds)}
This is the documentation for {$page}. For bug reports and feature requests, please visit [http://dev.tikiwiki.org/{$page}]
{/if}
..
this uses: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Category+Admin#Using_the_current_object_categories_in_a_tpl
...

[05:02]

chibaguy_

This seems like too specific a use case, to add to SI admin.

[05:05]

marclaporte

then, just need all the pages to the right category via tiki-admin_categories.php
yes, better to distribute via profiles

[05:05]

chibaguy_

Or do you mean that whole if statement, etc. gets put in somewhere as custom code?

[05:06]

marclaporte

yes
or in a module

[05:06]

chibaguy_

[05:06]

lindon

the categories would need to be set up yet on the doc site first?

[05:12]

marclaporte

doesn't matter

[05:13]

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[05:26]

chibaguy|away

chibaguy|away walking dog...

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[06:53]

marclaporte

chibaguy_: : http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Plugin_Alias_Example

[07:01]

chibaguy_

ah, I see....

[07:03]

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marclaporte

it can be good for security too
because I can restrict which parameters people can us
use

[07:26]

chibaguy_

nice

[07:33]

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[07:44]

chibaguy_

Here's an idea: there is a common layout.css that provides layout properties and some default styling esp. for details that don't get changed much.
Then a design stylesheet for each theme, which is named, for example, thenews.css
This adds the theme-specific coloring, etc. and overrides layout.css where necessary.
Each of these has sections like Site header, menus and links, boxes, wiki, forums, etc.
Same hierarchy in each.
I'm hoping transitions stylesheets can be retired, and new css can be added directly to layout.css.
(layout.css has all the selectors; theme css files have only what they need, no 'empty' selectors or placeholders or anything like that.
)
devs can add css to layouts.css. All themes import it.
There's a "New (unsorted)" section at its bottom, which can be for what transitions does now.
Actually the new css should be moved up to the correct place in the layouts.css hierarchy, but maybe this is too much to expect.
In my prototype install, I also have a 't.css' that is for a table-using tiki.tpl.
The theme.css can import layout.css and _either_ lite/lite.css or t.css, if a table layout needs to be used.
I think this will make it easy to have new themes, either lite.css-based or table-based.
I'm now converting the bundled theme stylesheets to the reduced version that imports layout.css.
When these are done, I'll commit to trunk.

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[08:22]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r18081 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-install.tpl: With automatic upgrade and SecDB loaded automatically, there is no reason anymore to go back. And if someone did, they can use left-hand menu.

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[09:22]

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luciash

polom noon
chibaguy_: great

[10:02]

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chibaguy_

hi luciash

[10:26]

luciash

hi gary :)
seems the mini-tikifest UK becomes quite big now

[10:30]

chibaguy_

hey, nice. :-)

[10:31]

luciash

(not by days, but more people coming)

[10:32]

chibaguy_

should be fun.
I see on the page there is a "launch the re-branding competition". I hope there can be a real change resulting from that...
...not just an exercize.
This is interesting: "Move tw.o sites over to strasa template and test/fix" I wasn't aware that that had been decided on.
(though it was the original purpose of the strasa design)

[10:33]

luciash

I wasn't aware of that decision either
but it could work
I'm just against using strasa as default for new Tiki installs

[10:41]

chibaguy_

Yes, I agree.

[10:42]

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luciash

hmm, replace in file gallery doesn't work anmore
*anymore

[11:25]

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[11:30]

spoonypjk

how do I enable wiki_up but retain file galleries?

[11:31]

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[11:32]

spoonypjk

I still cant figure out why thumbnails dont work at all in 3.x

[11:33]

luciash

which thumbnails ?
they work for me inserting image to wiki page from file galleries

[11:35]

spoonypjk

they dont work even just browsing the file gallery for me..
in all styles

[11:37]

luciash

do you have GD installed ?

[11:41]

spoonypjk

yeah it said it found it during the install
and it says its enabled in phpinfo

[11:42]

luciash

can you check if it's actually working on Admin > Image Galleries ?

[11:42]

spoonypjk

in there I get: GD: Detected, Version: 2.0 (Test Image: )
and theres a little test GD image

[11:43]

luciash

tiki-admin.php?page=gal
ok, so the test GD image is working, hmmm
did you upgrade db and cleared tiki cache ?

[11:43]

spoonypjk

seems when I insert an image from the file gallery if I take off the "thumbnail" argument I get the normal image.. but not thumbnails.
yeah this didnt work before I went to beta3 as well.
havent cleared the tiki cache..
but I did upgrade the db
hmm would turning on debug etc help at all? (possibly not?)

[11:44]

luciash

try tiki-admin_system.php?do=all

[11:46]

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[11:46]

luciash

debug probably not, but turning on PHP error messages reporting on Admin > General maybe yes

[11:46]

spoonypjk

hmm should the gallery dir be writable?
clearing the caches didnt seem to help

[11:47]

luciash

sure, must be writable

[11:50]

spoonypjk

hmm turned on all php errors and nothing.
it never flagged that dir as not being writable..
just uploaded a new pic and got a thumbnail now.
checking wiki pages
is there an option somewhere to regenerate thumbnails?
yeah thumbnails (new ones) seem to be working now. mustve been the permission problem. thanks :)
hmm is there a list of directories somewhere that should be writable? so I can double check all of my dirs again

[11:51]

luciash

are they png, gif or jpeg ?

spoonypjk

jpg
just some test images at the moment.

luciash

ok, good they work now at least
there seems to be no rebuild thumbnails link for file galleries :-/

spoonypjk

yeah thanks :). that was a bit of a showstopper.
oh no.. and theres a feature freeze on too! :)

luciash

i have another problem, replace image file doesn work in actions ;)

[11:56]

spoonypjk

luckily mine are test images at the moment so I can just reupload.
ah.. hmm
which icon is replace image?

[11:56]

luciash

and when i uploaded alpha transparent png images to my gallery they were uploaded to db by default and seem to be somewhat compressed (jaggy shapes), weird
it's under Actions

[11:57]

spoonypjk

ahh I see that now..
hard for me to see that because in "browse images" the formatting of the actions etc gets screwed up and overlaps a bit and shows in the wrong spot
I cant even use the actions menu in browse..
it appears like 15cm away from where it should and when your mouse gets to it it disappears

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[11:59]

spoonypjk

actually the action menu screws up in "list" as well as browse.. but browse has the added bonus of the "select all" and "perfom actions on checked" being screwed up too.
smells like a tpl problem.

[11:59]

luciash

IE ?
it's ok for me in FF3

[12:00]

spoonypjk

my main browser is ff3 on linux
but i think ive checked it in ie7 and ff3 on win too

[12:01]

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[12:01]

luciash

in my fresh install of 3.0 it's usable except the replace action

[12:02]

spoonypjk

yeah just double checked and it does exactly the same thing on the windows box next to me.
3.0b3?
might do a test fresh install and re apply my style and see what happens in a bit.
atleast replace image you can work around with delete and reupload.

[12:02]

luciash

3.0b4
yep
using transition style here too

[12:07]

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[12:11]

luciash

ah, seems the replace requires jquery feature on

[12:15]

chibaguy_

spoonypjk, is the actions popup in the wrong place in your theme?

[12:17]

luciash

hmm, weird, switched jquery off again and still it works in darkroom
luciash goes to re-check thenews
oh yes, it is weird but it happens only with thenews, darkroom works fine

[12:20]

chibaguy_

List gallery seems to work fine for me in TheNews and Darkroom (Opera and FF).

[12:28]

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[12:31]

chibaguy_

(branch 3 svn updated maybe 12 hours ago)

[12:35]

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[12:39]

luciash

list gallery is not a problem
Actions > Replace there
chibaguy_: ^

[12:41]

chibaguy_

Oh yeah, I see.
Also in Coelesce the popup is offset again (way down and to the right).
This was fixed once several weeks ago.

[12:45]

luciash

uff, i was already scared that it's only in my browser again :-p

[12:47]

chibaguy_

To test Action > Replace, are you just checking the behavior when "Replace" is clicked?
For me in thenews, there's no upload dialog box, the focus just jumps to the top of the page.

[12:51]

spoony78

sorry was afk, bought a treadmill today and did 5km on it because I've gotten too fat over the past 12 months :)
reading your replies now.
3.0b4?? or you mean svn?

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[13:03]

spoonypjk

coalesce is the one im using.

[13:04]

chibaguy_

svn

[13:04]

spoonypjk

thought it was happening in every theme i tried..
(well it was last time ichecked).
i upgraded to b3 today, let me check other themes for the offset
hmm checked darkroom and its fixed in darkroom now.
hmm.

[13:04]

chibaguy_

For me all the hovers on a url like tiki-list_file_gallery.php?view=browse&galleryId=1&p=2 are offset down and to the right
... in coelesce

[13:07]

spoonypjk

ah so its still broken in coelesce?
a fair bit off to the right and unable to be used right?

[13:08]

chibaguy_

yep. I suspect a position property of a parent div was changed recently.

luminoso_

how do i increase maximum image size limit?

luciash

chibaguy_: yeah, the same here in thenews, darkroom is working fine

chibaguy_

That was the problem when it happened before.

spoonypjk

hmm theres a tar.gz of coelesce in the coelesce dir.. wonder if its in the tarball or if its just on my filesystem.
gotta love regression
ah mustve just been my filesystem having that tar.gz, its not in the b3 dist.
any idea what the fix was last time?

chibaguy_

I'm checking..

[13:15]

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[13:19]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03axold * r18082 10/branches/experimental/workspaces/ (117 files in 48 dirs): [MRG] Automatic merge, trunk 17409 to 18075

[13:28]

chibaguy_

The cause is #tiki-center's position:relative property.

[13:35]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18083 10/branches/3.0/styles/darkroom.css: [FIX] darkroom theme: specify background-color for html to match theme colors because some browsers display it system default (white or light grey) after the footer ends

[13:35]

chibaguy_

That is/was used to position some wiki page-top stuff. I need to see if it's still necessary.

[13:35]

luciash

luminoso_: via php.ini

[13:37]

luminoso_

my php.ini max upload size is 200M

[13:37]

luciash

max_file_size

[13:38]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18084 10/branches/3.0/ (styles/simple/ templates/styles/simple/): [KIL] Simple theme: removing unmaintained theme before 3.0 release
tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18085 10/branches/3.0/styles/simple.css: [KIL] Simple theme: removing unmaintained theme before 3.0 release

[13:43]

marclaporte

bye simple.css

chibaguy_

chibaguy_ observes a moment of silence for Simple theme....

marclaporte

Let's remember simple.css as the theme that ushered the revolution

luciash

RIP Simple :´|

chibaguy_

Yep.
chibaguy_ pours beers all around

luciash

heheh
and wine for those francophonics ;)
btw, if anyone tells me how to, i volunteer to maintain mods.tw.o
do you think ppl will look for Simple there ?
recently i fixed some stuff in some mods but i didn't know how my commits will propagate to the mods server

[13:47]

caralluna|away

Hi guys :-)

[13:50]

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[13:51]

chibaguy_

luciash, I'd really like to see mods.tw.o become a real repository with svn backend and web-access front end.

[13:52]

caralluna

What would happen if I ran simple on a site, then svn up'ed that site? Does it fallback to some other theme or does it go bonkers?

[13:52]

luciash

caralluna: it'll get naked i guess
if you extract tiki to new dir

[13:53]

caralluna

lol :-P

[13:53]

luciash

if you overwrite current, it will stay
eh, sorry, in case of tarball
svn up of course will do striptease

[13:53]

chibaguy_

won't it just fall back to thenews?

[13:54]

luciash

chibaguy_: no idea, i'll test ;)

[13:54]

chibaguy_

Hmm, on amette's themes.tw.o, only the branch 3 themes are installed, and when a page has a theme specified that has no stylesheet, it gets no style.
(default browser font and page color, etc.
But I'm not sure what happens if the site's designated stylesheet is missing.

[13:56]

luciash

oh, great, it fallsback to default !
caralluna: sorry for desinformation ;)

[14:00]

caralluna

luciash: no problem, I was just about to svn up myself on my test site :-P

[14:01]

luciash

we have to note that at release notes though, for people using simple or simple-something subthemes to backup

[14:02]

caralluna

yeah

chibaguy_

luciash, there's going to be all kinds of trouble at update time for people using older themes, too.

caralluna

will thenews be the new "simple" theme now then?

luminoso_

luciash, upload_max_filesize 200M

luciash

kind of :)

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[14:04]

luciash

luminoso: weird

[14:04]

luminoso

well. i cannot still upload +10M photos
beta3

[14:04]

luciash

check your php script run timeout too maybe
(dunno the actual name)
maybe it timeouts on the big photos

[14:05]

luminoso

humm

[14:07]

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chibaguy|away

be back in a few minutes

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CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r18086 10/branches/3.0/styles/coelesce.css: [FIX] #tiki-center's position:relative causing hover popup dislocation, and no longer needed due to changed page-top background method.

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[18:10]

macleus

Can tikiwiki send an email whenever any page (i.e. trackers, wiki, blogs, forums, articles) gets changed or updated
???

[18:10]

marclaporte

yes
doc.tikiwiki.org/Watch

[18:11]

macleus

thank you. second question. how do you get email working???

[18:13]

marclaporte

that's more tricky
in admin panel, add a sender email
the rest depends on your server config

[18:16]

macleus

I am using xampp, should I search for that?

[18:18]

marclaporte

try to first send mail from PHP
once that works, Tiki is OK

[18:21]

amette

doc/dev are svn upped

[18:23]

marclaporte

amette: : ydm

[18:26]

amette

amette bows

[18:26]

marclaporte

amette: : strange: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-plugins.php

[18:34]

amette

still wondering why I prefer to do complete reinstalls instead of svn upping a running installation? ;)

[18:36]

marclaporte

svn up works for me
And TRIM is improving nicely

[18:36]

amette

well, I used (experimentally as I said in my mail) the script from doc/devtools/ ... apparantly it didn't work...
... yeah, TRIM is the next step..
so, I upped explicitly just tiki-plugins.php - now the file exists...
... but I wouldn't trust this Tiki installation a dime any more...
... who knows what's missing/too old...?!
( and btw - the list of updates files from doc/devtools/svnup.sh was huge!! still it missed tiki-plugins.php )
I'll prepare a reinstall in parallel...

[18:37]

marclaporte

ah sweet: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-plugins.php

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[18:45]

marclaporte

polom sylvieg

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caralluna

is it possible to invoke a test mail from tiki except through the installer?

[19:19]

marclaporte

sylvieg has script
http://tikiwiki.org/userpagesylvie -> see attachments
In 4.0, you'll be able to setup your own SMTP server

[19:22]

caralluna

:-)
I just did a few changes that hopefully will get mail sending up & running on my test server, just wanna test it ;-)

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[19:25]

Mariner

Does anyone here use XAMPP with their Tiki???

[19:26]

marclaporte

caralluna : does

[19:26]

Mariner

caralluna: How did you get the email working, I have been searching forums for hours to no avail

[19:27]

marclaporte

amette: : to speed up dev.tw.o: -> http://dev.tikiwiki.org/wish1128

[19:29]

caralluna

Mariner: in my case it was pretty simple: search through php.ini for occurances of the word "mail" and use "common ini-editing-file-sense" all I ended up needing to do was uncomment a line for sendmail path and inputting the correct path to sendmail (my server is using Linux) :-)

[19:30]

amette

marclaporte: so basically one could delete _all_ logins, when they are recreated anyway...?!?

[19:30]

marclaporte

no
because it would mess up when we modifiy tracker items

[19:30]

Mariner

caralluna: are you using mercury? or external?

[19:31]

marclaporte

submitter may not be in list, and thus reverts to none

[19:31]

caralluna

Mariner: dunno what mercury is

amette

marclaporte: ah, ok - so how to do that then?
you have a ready script that I coul fire at the database?

marclaporte

no script
just an idea

amette

marclaporte

for a tikifest
Nyloth or Sylvie would be great to do this