#tikiwiki 2009-05-05,Tue

shoq

yeah

marclaporte

tell me more :-)

shoq

we were trying to bend tiki in ways it just didn't want to bend back then :)
but now we need, badly
for a site that has to be up ASAP
so trying to decide what our best course is. 2.x that works, or 3.0
is the different to 3.0 huge?
difference?

marclaporte

shoq: : new project or upgrade?

[03:54]

shoq

new

[03:54]

marclaporte

timeframe?

[03:54]

shoq

2yesterday :)

[03:55]

marclaporte

what are most important features?

[03:55]

shoq

2wiki, and forum

[03:55]

marclaporte

do you have devs to fix bugs?

[03:56]

shoq

2yes, but really only in desperation. very busy on other code. for small bugs, yes
2I can do CSS bugs

[03:57]

marclaporte

do you need stuff here? http://doc.tikiwiki.org/TikiWiki+3.0

[03:57]

shoq

2but it seems the menuing is core + jquery?

[03:57]

marclaporte

mostly everything is core in Tiki

[03:58]

shoq

2but jquery is not pre-3?
2Which theme would be most stable in 3.0 Strassa?
2ping?
2have I lost you?

[03:59]

marclaporte

multi-tasking
jquery is core but optional and experimental
shoq: do you use SVN?

[04:06]

shoq

2we can

marclaporte

UI in 3.0 is much improved

shoq

2my partner can do all that, yes.. when needed..but trying to avoid that time suck if i can help it

marclaporte

many more features than 2.x

shoq

2would it be stable enough on big issues,?
2to go right to a live site?
2it's not a commercial site. just an important community

marclaporte

tikiwiki.org, doc.tikiwiki.org and dev.tikiwiki.org are running it

[04:08]

shoq

2oh.. that's good
2in its shipped form?
2but the menus work on your site
2wait. let me check that

[04:08]

marclaporte

Have 15-20 things I want solve first: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Release30process
shoq: : for a new project, I would say go with branches/3.0 from SVN and help iron the bugs along the way
open source is not just about taking and using
it's also about sharing & contributing
hundreds of people have worked on Tiki over 6 years to build an amazing piece of software
can't you take some time to fix some bugs?

[04:09]

shoq

2yes, of course we can, long term. our issue is just getting something up immediately. the project cannot delay
2obviously, once we're using it, we will fix things. We need something that runs and looks professional literally this week. If strass works, we're ok.
2but the "my tiki" page on your site looks completely broken
2have you looked?
2it looks like some CSS has completely broken down

[04:12]

2Marc, iss the EALTON theme designer here?
2Or can I reach him?
2That's really the theme we would love to use.

[04:19]

marclaporte

shoq: no offense but I have heard this many times before
including by some people that have helped the project

[04:22]

shoq

2heard what? That someone wants to use a beta?

[04:22]

marclaporte

they hack something up and intend to share later
because they are in a rush
and then, another rush comes along

[04:22]

shoq

2this project is for developers. We hope to have hundreds. But we can't even start without a site

marclaporte

chibaguy is designer for that theme

shoq

2people were pushing for Drupal. I hate drupal. I want tiki

marclaporte

(I think)

shoq

2because you have the features
2but if we had to spend days or weeks getting a basic site to run, that would be bad. that's all. We can fix the serious stuff as we go later.
2can I email him?
2if he thinks it will work, or gives me a clue where the problem might be
2i'm pretty good with css
2just need some clues

marclaporte

what browsers will you be supporting?
does eatlon.css look ok on 2.4?

[04:26]

shoq

2can't tell. is the themes.tikiwiki.org running 2.4 or 3?
2i assume 2.4
2and yes, I believe it looked fine there

[04:27]

marclaporte

themes.tw.o is 2.4 I think

shoq

2but strassa was broken on your main site, on the mytiki page

marclaporte

url?

shoq

2let me double check the demo

marclaporte

shoq: I don't think I am able to give advice with the info you provide
on one hand, UI of 3.0 is better, and there are more features

[04:29]

shoq

2http://themes.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Eatlon
2That is working fine

[04:29]

marclaporte

however, maybe you don't need the new features and 2.4 UI may be good enough
2.x bugs are not fixed, so it's best to report on 3.x so they get fixed
and if you are in a rush, I am not sure you can deal with this
So I see pros & cons to each option

[04:30]

shoq

2were forums and wikis upgraded all that much, or are 2.4 pretty decent?
2perhaps that is our option. just to to 2.4

[04:31]

marclaporte

wiki is excellent in terms of power and stability but UI is so-so in 2.4

[04:31]

shoq

2shame though. seems you have put so much work into 3

marclaporte

UI in 3.0 is very nice, but not yet rock-solid stable

shoq

2UI for users, admins, or both?

marclaporte

both
but we don't care for admins
I mean, you just admin once

shoq

2I understand

marclaporte

it's the user edit interface which is the most important if you are deploying
forum is very good in 2.x

shoq

2where are the biggest shortcomings in UI, in 2.x?

marclaporte

are you using WYSIWYG?

shoq

2yes

marclaporte

I recommend not to

http://tikiwiki.org/Why+Wiki+Syntax+Is+Important

shoq

2not to use wizzy in 2.4, 3.0 or both?

[04:34]

marclaporte

never

[04:34]

shoq

2that may not work then. a lot of these users are coming from wikis like wetpaint, pbworks, etc
2that would be a huge change from wizzy, down to text
2the devs, no problem
2but they are not the only users
2hmmmm

[04:35]

marclaporte

mediawiki has lots of users
wikipedia I mean

[04:35]

shoq

2it';s just a wiki
2we need far more than a wiki. that's tiki's strength

[04:36]

marclaporte

yes
of course, I don't know what you are trying to do
and each use case is different
and you must choose for your project
Do you have projects with Wizzy?

[04:36]

shoq

2sure. this is basically a community site, for planning the use of very large #hashtag on twitter.
2so people will have various skillsets
2forum and document authoring (or wiki) are most important

[04:37]

marclaporte

[04:38]

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shoq

2yeah. i know all the strenghts of wiki syntax. But I also know the resistance I get :)

marclaporte

I think WYSIWYG can be ok for publishing

shoq

2You and I love it. Plain users, not so much

marclaporte

but for intense collaboration, great diffs is essential

[04:40]

shoq

2Agree

[04:40]

marclaporte

shoq: do you have real experience with users complaining?

[04:40]

shoq

2This community has been using Wetpaint. They need more features... but to step down from full blown WIZZY to markup would be a hard sell

[04:41]

marclaporte

that is speculation?
or real?
I repeat the example of Wikipedia

[04:41]

shoq

2a bit of both. some key players were adamant, and demanded wizzy. could the battle be fought? Probably

marclaporte

and Wikipedia has lots of html in the syntax

shoq

2Wikipedia is a very generic, very fixed format.

marclaporte

of course, everyone want everything
look: You can use FCKEditor which is bundled in Tiki
FCK is one of the leading Wizzies

shoq

2fck is fine
2i know it well
2i never have a new theme for it
2that i wrote last year

[04:44]

marclaporte

But don't come complaining to me about problems after
I will tell you,

[04:44]

shoq

2never finished it, but it might be somethign i can contribute
2lol

[04:44]

marclaporte

"Wiki syntax is rock solid"
let me tell you about a fck bug

shoq

2but used can flip thought, right?
2they can use wiki if they know it?

marclaporte

that a company that uses Tiki had

shoq

2and fck if not?

marclaporte

they had weird problems where hyperlinks were destroyed
sometimes
they couldn't pinpoint

[04:46]

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[04:46]

marclaporte

they spent days trying to figure out
why some users
sometimes
but not all the time

[04:46]

shoq

2is fck3 released?
2it was a big improvement last year, but very unstable then
2it sounds like that problem is more with the tiki integration than fck, right?

[04:47]

marclaporte

This was the bug: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/wish1703
shoq: I think Tiki integration has some blame for WYSIWYG issues

[04:48]

shoq

2that issue was closed, but not fixed?

[04:49]

marclaporte

I think also that it's just a very complex problem and when people use successively different browsers, it causes surprises
I dunno why it's closed
so, can you help fix WYSIWYG issues?

[04:49]

shoq

2probably, yes. i am pretty good at javascript. PHP, not so much
2but my partner is good at both
2and ihave capable admins. but again.. it's all a matter of choices. not sure we have the time. but at least I have discussion points for morning meeting
2where are you, marc? What time zone?

[04:51]

marclaporte

Montreal, EST

shoq

2oh, good
2so you might be around in morning, if we have a question?

marclaporte

Round-trip WYSIWG <-> wiki works in theory
sure

shoq

2iam going to way everyone through all this

marclaporte

what you can do

[04:55]

shoq

2do things at least work in ie and firefox?
2is there a demo of 2.4 running still?
2so I can play without installing>

[04:55]

marclaporte

for wizzy, I would think so but I don't know
yes, at opensourcecms.com
http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/WYSIWYG_Wiki <- If you do end up using Wizzy, use this profile

[04:56]

shoq

2i remember my partner grousing about "unfriendly URLS" in tiki. are there solutions for that?

[04:57]

marclaporte

shoq: : yes there is
I suggest to start in plain wiki, and add Wizzy later only if necessary, and ideally just for some pages that really need it
URLs: as you can see, the URL above is short
since a long time now, you just put .htaccess file and short URLS can work

[04:57]

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[04:58]

marclaporte

the problem is that URLs generated by Tiki are still long ones
this is improved in 3.0
(experimental)

shoq

2The news theme on that site is plain, but menus are working

marclaporte

this would be a place you could help

shoq

2perhaps we could just dress than up, a bit

marclaporte

not to difficult

shoq

2is that theme stable?

marclaporte

yes, thenews is quite stable
the most stable of all 3.x themes I would say

shoq

2and wizzy will at least work in it?

marclaporte

1- because we used it more
2- because it's simple

shoq

2maybe that's our annwer

marclaporte

there is a SEFURL recipe. Just need to deploy the recipe to places where it's not yet deployed
shoq: : http://dev.tikiwiki.org/How+to+get+commit+access

[05:01]

shoq

2i will show this to simon first thing
2boy, I am glad you were here
2tell me this. i could not tell in the docs. Is there a module that can generate dynamic menus of a set of child pages?

[05:02]

marclaporte

:-)

[05:03]

shoq

2so that if a user adds a chilld page, it's automatically in a breakcrumb or sidebar navigation menu?

[05:04]

marclaporte

within the page, us {toc}

[05:04]

shoq

2that's really what my users are used to
2and in the side?

[05:04]

marclaporte

I guess {toc} in a module
modules are boxes on sides (in Tiki Lingo)

[05:05]

shoq

2and the module could be specific to one set of pages?

[05:05]

marclaporte

gimme 3 min, I will try something

[05:05]

shoq

2let me find a wet paint site that resembles this
2there are a few

[05:06]

marclaporte

shoq: :do you think you will make many sites?

shoq

2hard question to answer. we've discussed that. depends greatly on how things go

marclaporte

shoq

2we might make a great many

marclaporte

if you do, two important tools
TRIM: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/TRIM to deploy/manage many sites

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[05:09]

shoq

2ah
2subsites?

[05:09]

marclaporte

http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/ -> to pre-configure sites
no, not subsites, but distinct installs

[05:09]

shoq

2great

marclaporte

say you have 20 projects
20 tikis
on 8 severs
servers
TRIM helps you manage them all

shoq

2great
2http://p2pt0.wetpaint.com/

marclaporte

install, upgrade, backup, security monitor, etc

shoq

2now look at that left side nav
2thats wetpaint
2notice it's a tree menu of wiki pages
2very easy for users to "move" pages to the tree

marclaporte

marclaporte looks

shoq

2it's very popular

marclaporte

top menu always stays the same?

shoq

2yes
2throught the site, yes

marclaporte

this is your site?

[05:12]

shoq

2but of course, pages get added. but no, the nav doesn't shift, and that of course is one of the things that should be improved
2nah.. just one of many wetpaint sites
2a million of them

[05:12]

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xavi

toctoc-morning...

marclaporte

yo xavi

shoq

2hi

marclaporte

marclaporte creates wetpaint account to test

shoq

2easy enough

xavi

marclaporte: still around?
xavi wonders which brand are the "batteries" inside marclaporte...

shoq

2you "move pages" with the menu "other options" on the end of the page bar
2it is the ONLY wiki to do have this. And it's very popular. If tiki had it, it could be a big deal

http://tikiwikiworld.wetpaint.com/?t=anon

marclaporte

wow: http://tikiwiki.wetpaint.com/
I didn't know about his site
xavi: my batteries are better since I stopped travelling

[05:15]

xavi

:-)

[05:16]

shoq

2it's done very very well
2there are two
2wetpaint, which is huge in education
2and pbworks, which does better in biz
2pbworks lacks that navigation
2and it hurts them
2wetpaint has forums added to every page
2that's all good
2but thats' about it
2after that, it starts to fall down
2and the forums are really not well done
2and the wizzy editing can be slow and awkward at times, but beginners do love it
2but you know how that goes, beginners love anything somewhat easy
2I have wanted that navigation for years
2and presto, they added it, and it's been the most important selling feature
2people simply do not kknow how to structure a site or a wiki, so giving them TOC is pointless
2they need place to see new pages as they create them
2in an tree. then they can move them
2this is hurting google sites too

[05:17]

marclaporte

[05:20]

shoq

2they have the side navigation, but NO TREE
2(yet)

[05:21]

marclaporte

shoq: : are you familiar with structures in tiki?

[05:21]

shoq

2i remember we played with structured wikis some
2and yes, these are just structures, right?
2can we simple render the structure in the sidebar, that way?
2simply

[05:22]

marclaporte

shoq: I am pretty sure this is done for 4.0

[05:24]

shoq

2lol
2which is how far away?

[05:25]

marclaporte

Oct 2009
but you can backport to 3.1
to 3.x I mean
just a few file changes

[05:25]

shoq

2In the interim, we can do that, but it just has to be inpage?
2is there a collapsing TOC for the structure?

[05:26]

marclaporte

I am testing on doc.tw.o

[05:26]

shoq

2but we just have to float it inside the main body?
2ah

[05:26]

marclaporte

{toc} in module doesn't work
but yes, {toc} anywhere in a page works well
and sometimes, it makes sense to put
sometimes, not

[05:28]

shoq

2and it's collapsible, as the category menus are ?

[05:28]

marclaporte

dunno
default it just list

shoq

2Well..we could drive the system

marclaporte

maybe collapsible option
my take on this

shoq

2and use absolute positioning

marclaporte

shoq

2and place it on the leeft
2left

marclaporte

improving the rendering of structures will be easy
and it's something that tiki needs so you can share back and are not alone

[05:30]

shoq

2yes, and my guy is good at that. so long as getting up to speed on structures is easy

[05:30]

marclaporte

Sylvie, Seb and other are working on that
However
The problem with structures is UI to move things around

[05:30]

shoq

2what do people do for page navigatino now? They just manually make little child page indexes?

[05:31]

marclaporte

it's a top of page

[05:32]

shoq

2can a categories tree be used as a navigation module?

[05:32]

marclaporte

look at doc.tikiwiki.org
shoq: : yes, I have an example on profiles.tikiwiki.org
a little ugly but it works
about structures: look at top here: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Module&bl=y

[05:32]

shoq

2did i have to be signed in to see this top of page example?

marclaporte

no
(I think)

shoq

2you just meant the top pull down nav menus?
2that's not dynamic,

marclaporte

correct
but if people click arrows, they can navigate all pages

shoq

2I am talkign about if users create a child page, is there anythig that lets them find it easily from their current location
2or is it jsut "out there" until they link to it?

[05:35]

marclaporte

shoq: if {toc} is in current page, they see
I have somewhere a hack about structures and menus
hold on

[05:36]

shoq

2brb.. gotta brush :)

[05:38]

marclaporte

http://dev.tikiwiki.org/wish1045 -> here is wish. In comments, there is a link to the 4.0 code
shoq: : where are you?

[05:38]

{wikistructure id=2}
is a feature

[05:43]

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[05:44]

marclaporte

ah chibaguy

[05:45]

chibaguy

polom

[05:45]

marclaporte

shoq has questions for you :-)

chibaguy

i read the log.

xavi

hi chibaguy

chibaguy

hi xavi

marclaporte

shoq: : categories are an option too. YOu can have hierarchy but no order

xavi

xavi nearly finished reading the log

shoq

2back
2hi chib
2chib, are you the Eatlon themer?

xavi

marclaporte and shoq: remember also http://tikiwiki.org/TikiLiveCD for a working 2.4 and 3beta out of the box

[05:47]

chibaguy

I'm not the original designer, but I did the Tiki implementation.

[05:47]

xavi

and shoq and marclaporte: wizzy and wiki out and return doesn't produce 100% perfect results

[05:47]

shoq

2is the left nav supposed to be working as pull downs., or vertical toggles (as they are)
2we assumed they are supposed to be pull downs, and it's broken

[05:48]

xavi

I mean: for a production site aiming to last many months or years, you'd better suggest your users to use wysiwyg or wiki syntax on each page: one or the other, but not both indistinctly and changing the editor on each page

[05:48]

chibaguy

Eatlon for Tiki 3 is here: http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki/mods/trunk/themes/eatlon_for_tiki_3.tar.gz?view=tar ...
But I have made more changes that aren't committed yet.
You can see tiki3 and eatlon at http://zukakakina.com/tw3/ (and select the theme).

[05:48]

shoq

2great. is the menuing problem near to a fix?

[05:49]

chibaguy

What menuing problem?
(sorry)

[05:49]

shoq

2ok, the top menus of ealton are pull down menus, on mouseover, right?

[05:50]

marclaporte

bedtime for me

[05:50]

shoq

2we assumed the left side nav was supposed to be doing the same thing
2but it's not

chibaguy

Yes, both suckerfish and PHP Layers menus

xavi

g'night marclaporte

marclaporte

shoq: : as a reminder:

chibaguy

..are supported.

shoq

2not on our site, or yours
2nite marc
2thank you

marclaporte

I think making nice output from structures is low hanging fruit

chibaguy

g'night marc

marclaporte

the challenge is that it's tedious to manage structures for end users
easy to add page
but aweful to move around
we'd need some UI work
jquery would be nice

shoq

2yeah

chibaguy

The left-column suckerfish and php layers menus have a flyout for the second level.

marclaporte

so if you build it and they fill it, it's ok

shoq

2right, but that is not working in 3 for us

marclaporte

if they must manage, maybe categories is better
because category picker is easy

shoq

2and then categories could act like folders, with articles in them?

marclaporte

yes

xavi

shoq : structures work pretty well in 2.4. See this quick howto, if interested to see them in action on a real (production) site: http://www.iesbarcelona.org/ESSO350/How+to+edit+the+Wiki+Structure

marclaporte

and pages can be in one or many

shoq

2but pages cannot have child pages

marclaporte

only limitation is that there is no order, so you can't print a book

xavi

I added some mini howto for my newbie students (some of them and very very low skilled with computing, even if at university)

shoq

2they can only be placed in child categories, right?

chibaguy

(If that 'not working' is about the menus, then something must be wrong/incomplete at the installation. These normally work as designed.)

xavi

shoq: yes, pages can have child pages

marclaporte

can be placed anywhere
shoq: : login to profiles.tikiwiki.org and play with it
just add pages to categories and see how they appear in menu

shoq

2I will do this in morning, after meeting
2i can do that at profiles.?

[05:55]

marclaporte

as a bonus, people can watch categories and get email

[05:55]

shoq

2Chiba
2http://p2tag.com/tiki-index.php
2can you register there
2and I can show you the menu bug?

[05:55]

marclaporte

yes, profiles.tikiwiki.org -> left menu is build from categories

shoq

2I think you have to be logged in

chibaguy

(Incidentally, the theme files at zukakakina.com/tw3 are in the middle of switching to a new css file method, so things may not be 100%.)

shoq

2No, you can see the problem
2without even logging in

xavi

marclaporte: but new pages are not shown in the left menu where the categories are

shoq

2you can see the problem in left menu
2and your demo site has the same problem

[05:57]

xavi

I never tried myself, but there is a module for "structures toc" even in 2.x, I think...

[05:57]

chibaguy

Did you get the Eatlon files from the link I gave at 14:48 ^^ ?

[05:57]

shoq

2you mean just now?

[05:58]

chibaguy

I mean is http://p2tag.com/tiki-index.php using those files?

[05:58]

shoq

2I cannot install new files. I have to have the admin do in morning
2they are using 3,0 out of the box
2whatever that is
2or wherever she get the theme
2she got nothing from the svn

[05:58]

chibaguy

Well, the Eatlon files for Tiki 2 won't work correctly with Tiki 3, so that'll be the first thing to change.

[05:59]

shoq

2so what exactly does she want?

[05:59]

chibaguy

She can get the compressed archive at the link I gave above, decompress it, and put the files into the right places in Tiki's directory.
If she installed Eatlon before, she'll know what to do.

[06:00]

shoq

2gotcha
2let me find that link

[06:00]

chibaguy

If any problems, I'm usually here at this time of day and will be glad to help.
(The old Eatlon files should be removed, and the new ones put in their place.)

[06:01]

shoq

2GREAT
2you guys rock
2so we should look at the structures module in 2.x?
2Chib, is the theme stable enough in forums, main nav, and wiki?
2I can help there. CSS I can ")
2do

[06:04]

xavi

you could give it a try
to structures module in 2.4, I mean

[06:05]

shoq

2i could not code that
2but i could help design it

[06:06]

xavi

xavi wonders if that module is documented.... checking...

[06:06]

Tikiwiki|bot

New Forum Posts: (Noob) img tag not seeming to work for me - http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=32875

[06:07]

shoq

2chiib. xavi.. hit my wall for now. I must sleep or meeting will be washout. WIll you be around in morning?

[06:08]

chibaguy

sorry, was away. Most of the Eatlon css is carried over from the Tiki 2 file, so should be ok throughout TIki, pretty much.

[06:08]

shoq

2great

chibaguy

Of course if you see places to improve, that'd be great.

shoq

2let's get her started on that

xavi

shoq, maybe not me.

shoq

2i just wish i had some answer for this navigation

xavi

but you are in god hands in this channel with its current inhabitants

chibaguy

(sometimes I get lazy, or maybe don't have some feature or other activated when doing/checking the theme.)

xavi

s/god/good (or maybe also "god"???)

shoq

2are them some examples of someone doing simply page structures like that?

chibaguy

I'm in Japan, so don't know just what you mean by morning, but I'm usually around, more or less.

[06:10]

shoq

2lol
2i mean in 7 hours

[06:10]

chibaguy

what -> when
Yep, should be here.

[06:10]

shoq

2great
2http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-my_tiki.php
2that page is broken
2on my Ubuntu Firefox 3
2is it on yours?

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chibaguy

yeah, I know that's a mess.

shoq

2oh, ok

chibaguy

It was started on an ajax implementation that was abandoned, I think.

shoq

2are you japanese, or just living there?

chibaguy

american long-time resident.

shoq

2never been. would love to go

xavi

shoq: see this navigation from a wikistructure (or right column): http://www.iesbarcelona.org/ESSO350/
using 2.4
page names are too long for that, I know. It's just a quick and dirty trial from the structure I was using with my students, the one documented here: http://www.iesbarcelona.org/ESSO350/How+to+edit+the+Wiki+Structure

[06:13]

shoq

2Now if user added a page, would it show up in the structure on the fly?

[06:14]

xavi

that navigational module is generated on the fly from the structure
yes

[06:14]

shoq

2so all we have to do is make it collapsing wiht jquery menus?

[06:14]

xavi

shoq: yes, for instance: That would be lovely!

[06:15]

shoq

2and the structure be limited to one set of pages, and not the whole site?

[06:15]

xavi

btw, it's not a pre-defined module, but pre-defined content to be added on a user-defined module

[06:15]

shoq

2but the instructions were from the structure docs above?

[06:16]

xavi

shoq: it's predefined to a structure page. The smaller the structure, the smaller the content. Not necessarily all
and it's already coded to show only down to several level of the structur enodes
see http://doc.tikiwiki.org/toc
xavi trying the maxdepth param in that 2.4 site

[06:16]

shoq

2So basically, so long as TOC appears in main page body

xavi

shoq: btw, which theme style are you using in tw.o? (in your acount, I mean)
with strasa, everthing looks fine to me...

shoq

2we can do dynamic structures as users add pages

xavi

shoq: yes

shoq

2we were using strassa, but two of our people just disliked it
2they want ealton
2lol
2i think i like news.. but i prefer simple

[06:19]

xavi

http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-my_tiki.php is showing ok to me with strasa. that's what I mean.
what was yuor problem?

shoq

2i find it hard to believe with all the wikis build with tiki, no one build something like the wet paint module, using toc

xavi

maybe I didn't understand the layout problem you mentioned....

shoq

2strassa was ok
2our problem was ealton

xavi

ah, ok

shoq

2Ok, thank you guys. I will reread all of this in morning
2thanks again
2will let you know how we progress with ealton
2nite!

[06:21]

xavi

shoq: maxdepth is not working in 2.4 [wikistructure id= } navigation menus on the side, but it is when the {toc} is generated in the main body of the page
xavi disabled that trial menu from that production 2.4 site
nite

[06:22]

shoq

2would you guys recommand 3.0
2or still with 2.4 for now?
2marc was iffy on that
2it sounds like we will want things in 3
2but don't know

[06:23]

xavi

it's up to you and your users, I would say, how strict they will be with tiny bugs here and there for some weeks/months (you said you needed site for production for last week)

[06:25]

shoq

2tiny bugs
2no problem

[06:25]

chibaguy

I'm not sure yet about 3.0. For sure it has a lot of new features and some things are done more nicely....

shoq

2big bugs, yes

xavi

if it was me, for real users (not skilled and afraid of wiki syntax), and used to wetpaint sites, etc, I would go with 2.4, and when they are used to it, change/upgrade to 3.0

chibaguy

....but because a lot is new, using 2.4 would be more predictable, for a live site that needs to be solid.

shoq

2what do you see tiki competitive with today/ Drupal?
2what's your nearest?

chibaguy

3.0 is still being debugged.

xavi

tiny vs. big: it's subjective. Search was failing completely for anonymous users for a week at least (fixed yesterday)
on 3.0
is this big for you, or just tiny? (for registered or editors, that seemed to be working fine)
this is just an example.

[06:27]

shoq

2search is big
2oh
2for anonymous

[06:27]

xavi

my users would have got impressed negatively if search didn't work for them for a week!

[06:28]

shoq

2small
2:)

[06:28]

xavi

so it's up to you, I would say
if in doubvt, then, go for 3.0, and help improve it! :-)
and document it! ;-)

[06:28]

shoq

2my problem is these people are used to creating a page, and hooking it to that wetpaint.com left nav tree
2easy
2they are totally used to that

xavi

http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Documentation need lots of care to upgrade many pages to hold information about 3.0 changes

shoq

2i need some answer to that
2but enough
2thanks guys
2more tomorrow

xavi

{wikistructure id=N} does this job
ok, c u

chibaguy

marc wrote some pages on tikiwiki.org about comparisons to drupal, joomla, etc.

shoq

2you mean, wikistructure is the same thing. We jsut can't display it in side bar
2right?

[06:30]

xavi

you do can display in the side bar
I showed it for you a moment ago on that 2.4 production site

shoq

2Oh
2right

luciash

polom polom

shoq

2and we could set that up from existing code?
2and just work in the collapser

xavi

yes, from out-of-the-box 2.4

luciash

huh, i cannot read the dark blue on black background :-p

shoq

2but not 3?

xavi

shoq: probably yes also, ....
just trying right now...

shoq

2oh , that would rock

xavi

yes, it works even with the maxdepth param! :-)
see this in the left menu: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Documentation
compare the menu in the left with the menu in the central column
in the left column, set to display maxdepth=2 (only headers of 1st and 2nd level), and in main page, show full strucgture, with all levels
Tiki 3 rocks! :-D

[06:34]

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[06:36]

xavi

shoq: go for tiki 3 and add the jquery thing to that navigation thingy :-)
shoq, did you see that on doc.tw.o?
I need to disable it after that, since that's the production site for documentation, and too manu menus right now with that enabled

[06:36]

shoq

2well this looks like what we we want

[06:37]

xavi

yes!

[06:37]

shoq

2so long as plain dumb users can just add to the structure with no training

xavi

xavi is looking forward to see the jquery-fication of that dynamic navigation menu from structures.... :-)

shoq

2check out superfish for jquery

xavi

if they can understand this type of image: http://www.iesbarcelona.org/ESSO350/How+to+edit+the+Wiki+Structure

shoq

2buddy of mine did that in australian

xavi

it would take them 1 min seconds to figure out hjow to do it, do it, and ensure that they got it right. 1 min.
xavi goes back to work on other stuff
good luck, shoq, and keep us informed
module removed from doc.tw.o

[06:39]

luciash

shoq: i cannot read all the log but i suppose you figured the left menu out

[06:43]

shoq

2back
2was looking it all over
2luc.. i think we just need the right css
2or did you mean the dynamic toc menu?
2thank you all
2we have much ti figure out

[06:45]

xavi

shoq: welcome back to TikiWiki Community! :-) (after 3 years)

[06:46]

chibaguy

shoq, Tiki 3 already uses superfish for css menus.

shoq

2thanks you!
2hahah

chibaguy

if jquery is turned on by site admin.

shoq

2he will be thrilled
2that means
2i have already contributed
2because i did a LOT of work on superfish
2mostly the design and css debugging, and the autowidths
2which rock

xavi

free software (FLOSS) rocks! :-)

[06:48]

shoq

2but that was about 9 months ago, so now i wil be rusty
2but we will get back together

[06:48]

xavi

shoq: were are you from?

[06:49]

chibaguy

shoq, our css menus are now (in Tiki 3) kind of a mix of earlier work on suckerfish, since in tiki 3 jquery is optional/experimental...
...so there should be a reworking of css menus for TIki 4 (refactoring, etc.)...
so your help would be much appreciated, if possible, I think.

[06:49]

shoq

2yeah, superfish took what was good about suckerfish, blended with jquery, and threw out the crap
2Well, i can't promise yet. I have many things to analyse and disucss with partners. but this is more promising than it was
2thanks guys
2good night!

[06:49]

chibaguy

Tiki menus also have classes for menu levels, etc., so it all needs to be blended nicely.
good night.

[06:50]

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[06:52]

luciash

hi chibaguy and xavi :)

[06:57]

xavi

hi luciash

[06:58]

chibaguy

hey luciash

[06:58]

Actually (to clarify) I think the css menus are in good shape, but since jquery has been added, maybe they could be improved, be more efficient. Something to look at maybe.

[07:12]

xavi

+1 (good shape), and improvable with jquery maybe

[07:13]

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[07:16]

luciash

i just thought he forgot to add overflow=y to the module
and type=vert
chibaguy: i still wonder why it produces no shadows in Tiki with superfish

[07:17]

chibaguy

oh, maybe so, luciash. I forgot about that point.
yeah, I wonder too.

[07:21]

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[07:22]

luciash

i also thought maybe it could be better to have some longer delay for the superfish menu disappearing (it's configurable in jq params)
sometimes i have trouble especially with laptop touchpad to operate with the css menus

[07:23]

xavi

sylvieg (for whenever you are up): I've deleted the "test" gallery (with no images) that you created in doc.tw.o
fyi
xavi is documenting a bit the new image upload behavior in 3.0, using doc.tw.o as example, and that test was kind if ugly in the screenshots
s/kind if/kind of
chibaguy: there is display problem with strasa (at least) and file gallery browser
you click on it to collapse file gallery browser on the left of http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-list_file_gallery.php?galleryId=0&filegals_manager=editwiki ,a nd it collapses ok
you click again, to expand it, and it expands ok, and less than 1 sec. later, it shrinks to a few hundred pixels wide
using ff3
not important, but I just noticed

[07:28]

luciash

xavi: i'd recommend not to use the strasa theme for documentation but the default one, it's more clean and better for printing the screenshots imho... just my 2 cents

[07:34]

xavi

uh? strasa showed up as my default, afaik...
yes :-) I have "site default" in tw.o
so that, I imagine that this is why I get also strasa in doc.tw.o? (intertiki passing that info?)

[07:34]

luciash

huh ? default is still thenews after fresh install nope ?

[07:35]

xavi

well, default in tw.o is strasa

luciash

i mean for making screenshots
for documentation

LordVan

chibaguy

yes, I see what you mean, xavi. At first glance, that looks like something that I don't know how to fix. ;-)

LordVan

maybe i'm stupid 7 blind, but I can't find where to activate plugins in the admin interface .. can someone help me out please?

chibaguy

admin textarea, I believe.

xavi

ok, oh well, I like some more colors in the screenshots... like strasa... but I understand what you say about printing... I dunno what to do... anyway, screenshots are in many colors right now... (xavi copes well with diversity, in fact)

LordVan

as mentioned iun http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Wiki+Plugins
chibaguy, ok thanks i'll look

chibaguy

chibaguy has learned that admin textarea is the secret hiding place for such things.

xavi

LordVan: and if you can update documentaion pages for that, that would be awesome! :-)

luciash

can we still rename it to Edit & Plugins for 3.0 ?

xavi

chibaguy: hide/collapse issue: ok, not important nor urgent imho if not trivial to fix

LordVan

first i need to figure it out ;)

xavi

luciash: "Edit area & Plugins"?
LordVan: I know, but when you figure it out, you'll probably not come back to offer documenting it, so that's why I'm asking this right now, so that when you figure it out, you know that you have been requested to help improving documentation pages about it :-P
otherwise, doc.tw.o will remain outdated for months, if all users asking for help (becuase they don't find things in the documentatation) don't help to improve it

[07:39]

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[07:41]

xavi

s/months/years
in fact
sorry to feel like a (time) bank robber, but I honestly think that otherwise it's not a sustainable way of ensuring a healthy live for doc.tw.o...

[07:41]

LordVan

yeah i know

[07:43]

xavi

in case anyone sees me as a time robber! :-)
do what you can, as we all do
xavi back to documenting

[07:43]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r18463 10/branches/3.0/styles/thenews.css: [FIX] Tiki-top suckerfish menu top-level items' side border goes full height again.

[07:49]

Beestje

quick Q : what tools / environments do you guys use to code and / or design?
I'm using dreamweaver on OSX for coding, but PHP coding doesn't go smoothly... for designing I use the Firebug plugin from Firefox

[07:57]

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[07:58]

Beestje

I want to be more active as a developer as well and I'm just wondering what tools you use... :)

[07:58]

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[08:03]

xavi

Beestje: in case it helps (I'm not a coder, nor a designer in fact, but power user). I compiled a list that you can see through "Tools" pages at doc.tw.o See links from here: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Tools
hth

[08:08]

chibaguy

I use Dreamweaver, too, as editor for smarty templates, also TopStyle for css files.

[08:08]

xavi

and you know, as always, you are very welcome to improve that list with whatever answers you get from others or from yourself ;-)

[08:09]

chibaguy

Fireworks for graphics, WinMerge for file comparisons, TortoiseSVN, FF+ Firebug

[08:10]

LordVan

i prefer gimp for gfx ;)
chibaguy, but for windows winmerge & tortoisesvn r a must i agree - although i use linux myself ;)
LordVan is not a tiki dev though

[08:11]

chibaguy

yeah, I like winmerge and tortoisesvn a lot; they do the job really well, I think.

[08:12]

LordVan

although tortoise has a nice merge tool too ;)

[08:12]

chibaguy

(though tortoisesvn slows down my file manager displays quite a bit sometimes)

LordVan

hmm

xavi

Beestje , LordVan and chibaguy: that would depend on the platform/OS of the user. Beestje seems to be using OSX. That list of Tools pages comprises windows, linux MAc and multiplatform tools
in different pages

LordVan

yep
i duno bout mac
although gimp works on mac too ;)

http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Linux+tools

xavi

[08:14]

chibaguy

I'd like to get more familiar with gimp and inkscape but don't have much time to explore, so just do jobs with familiar tools.

[08:14]

xavi

http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Mac+tools
http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Windows+tools

[08:14]

chibaguy

have used fireworks for a long time so it's easy.

[08:15]

xavi

http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Multiplatform+tools
fyiç

[08:15]

LordVan

[08:16]

luciash

xavi: Edit area & Plugins sounds good

[08:22]

chibaguy

Does "Edit area" have a clear meaning?

[08:24]

luciash

Beestje: try Eclipse (jonny uses that on OS X), i use it on Linux and for simple/quick editing i use vim
chibaguy: still far better than textarea
chibaguy: what do you propose ?

[08:24]

chibaguy

chibaguy has no better idea ;-)
How about "Editing and Plugins"?

[08:25]

luciash

it could be "Wiki Syntax & Plugins" too but it's not shorter ;)

[08:26]

chibaguy

Gotta take dog out. will be back soon...

[08:27]

luciash

give your dog his time, gary ;)
no hurry :)

[08:29]

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[08:30]

.... (idle for 17mn)

xavi

luciash and chibaguy (after dog walk): "Edit window & Plugins"?

[08:47]

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[08:47]

xavi

dunno, many simple users might call it "ah, at the editing window"...

[08:47]

luciash

xavi: nope :) window is confusing

[08:48]

xavi

ok
confusing for devs (maybe not for simple users), but I agree, it's not a good name for everyone

[08:48]

luciash

"Editing & Plugins" could work too as gary suggested

[08:48]

xavi

however, I can foresee many users wondering: "Editting" what? Articles? trackers?....
s/editting/editing
my 2 cents

[08:49]

luciash

unfortunatelly i have no time left to change it so if you do, please, welcome

[08:49]

xavi

not enough time left today for that, sorry (still aiming to finish documenting about image upload + translatio + non-tiki work urgent for today)

[08:50]

luciash

gotta plenty of work here still so i think i'll be available only after 3.0 release and switch to trunk

[08:51]

xavi

so, we can leave it as it is for 3.0
I would say

[08:51]

luciash

better would be to change but if chibaguy doesn't do that simple change, we have to live with that explaining users where to find plugins all the time until 3.1 ;)
marclaporte: what do you think ?

[08:52]

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[08:52]

luciash

:)
bbl

[08:52]

Beestje

wow tnx for the tips! Boss called me aside for a meeting so couldn't respond sooner :)

[09:09]

xavi

Beestje: np
for the record: I?ve created this page: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Module+wikistructure
I know this is not a real module as the other predefined ones, but from the point of view of end users, they will not mind (I would say), and they would look for "module structure" (probably) in documentation to see if they can do what that shoq user wanted to do (long discussion/conversation hours ago today here in irc)
hth

[09:15]

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[09:31]

.... (idle for 18mn)

xavi

luciash and chibaguy: how would you proceed with PluginVersions display: each time I'm reading a page with plugin version usage, I wonder how long does it last that version usage, and when does the static content follows.
I started adding manually boxes (^versions plugin and text ^ ) so that I can see that...
... but I'm wondering if this shouldn't be something to add by default to whatever tpl (if any) is using pluginversions...
of php, whatever (add display info in the code so that each theme style can be set up as desired for each site
if in doubt, see http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Manual+Installation (with boxes added) or http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Upgrade (without boxes added)

[09:49]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18464 10/branches/3.0/lang/cs/language.php: czech language update

[09:58]

chibaguy

xavi, looks like div class=versions needs a border or background color.

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18465 10/branches/3.0/lang/cs/language.php: minimal file ready for the final release generated using "get_strings.php?lang=cs&groupwrite&nohelp&nosections" params

chibaguy

or some graphic way to distinguish from nonversions content.

xavi

chibaguy: yes, where should I add that?
at the php file itself? (I'm newbie on this)

luciash

chibaguy: strasa horiz css menu is too low z-index

chibaguy

ah, what does it conflict with?

luciash

submenu items go under right column content

chibaguy

xavi, I can do the versions div styles.
it should be in the theme css file.

xavi

chibaguy: great, thanks
ah, ok

[10:09]

luciash

chibaguy: more specifically they go under the module titles

[10:09]

chibaguy

luciash, maybe because of module titles positioning.

[10:09]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18466 10/branches/3.0/lang/cs/language.php: argh ! running get_strings with these params removed "$lang=Array(" too :-/

[10:13]

xavi

argh, plugin list pages kicked me out of the edition due to sql error :-/
xavi will try again (with backup of his edition this time :-) ) since plugin list pages seems much more powerful than TITLESEARCH, that he was used to, and somebody assked about them both in the releaseprocess30 page

[10:15]

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[10:41]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18467 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-show_help.tpl: [FIX] there's no "display: all" in CSS

[10:43]

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[10:45]

chibaguy

luciash, what browser is having a problem with css menu dropdowns and module titles? It tests ok at my site in FF and Opera.

[10:48]

luciash

FF3 and Opera too

[10:48]

chibaguy

are other themes ok?

[10:49]

luciash

chibaguy: with jQuery off
chibaguy: yes, thenews is working fine

[10:49]

chibaguy

That's something I had been checking because IE had some trouble at one point.
It's may be related to the way the top menu is positioned in strasa.

[10:51]

luciash

try jQuery off

[10:53]

chibaguy

jquery is off at my test site already.

[10:54]

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[10:54]

chibaguy

but I don't have menu dropdowns long enough to hit the right column. ;-)
in strasa

[10:55]

luciash

hehe
then i don't wonder it works for you :)

[10:55]

LordVan

any recent updates i should apply to my svn install from last week?
important stuff i mean

[10:55]

chibaguy

[10:56]

luciash

i have mootools off too if it matters

[10:56]

chibaguy

i'll add some menu items...
hey, we only add important stuff. ;-)
(LordVan )

[10:56]

LordVan

chibaguy, ;) i mean like big fat security hole or sth
obviously i'll upgrade to 3.0 when it's out instead of svn

[10:57]

chibaguy

ah, no security fix that I know of.

[10:57]

luciash

chibaguy: i've just switched jQuery on and the problem persist
LordVan: yep, there was some sec related fix

[10:57]

LordVan

now which is it ? ;)

[10:58]

luciash

see the SVN logs ;)

[10:58]

LordVan

:P
what is general estimate for 3.0 anyway? days?weeks?

[10:58]

luciash

days

LordVan

cool

luciash

it should be yesterday already

LordVan

so all i'll have to do once it is out remove my svn tree and dump 3.0 in there (after copying the config file i guess)
- i don'T want all the .svn dirs,.. ;)

luciash

chibaguy: seems jQuery or Mootools have no effect on the css menu bug

xavi

LordVan: again: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Upgrade
so LordVan: please, first read the docs. After that, if possible, ask for help, and please, help to improve them

LordVan

xavi, sure, but the docs don'T mention svn 3.0 to release ;)

xavi

xavi wonders how many time he will have to repeat it...
well, they do mention from some 3.0 to 3.0beta4
someone like you asked weeks ago, we answered, and request him to document it, and he did.

chibaguy

luciash, now that I have 10 menu items in the dropdown, I confirm the problem. :-)

xavi

now you are asking for the "release" (which is not even ready).

LordVan

cool ;) looks like i didn'T read properly

chibaguy

This is in opera, first test.

xavi

so please, read what is in there, ask for help, and improve it, please

[11:03]

LordVan

xavi, i knwo that i was just wondering that all

[11:03]

xavi

Some minutes ago I just moved that under a tab of the version plugin...
so since some minutes ago, that link should be under the "Choose an upgrade path > Others"

[11:03]

luciash

chibaguy: i'm editing strasa now so maybe i can fix it

[11:04]

xavi

please, feel free to take those links out of that version-name others if you feel that for a general audience they might be somewhere else (out of the versions plugin, maybe?)

[11:04]

LordVan

xavi, ok lemme reload the page
ok seen it ;) thanks

[11:05]

chibaguy

ok, luciash, I see that menu has z-index: 0.
xavi, I'll do the versions plugin css and add the highlight css where it's missing (for that plugin) -- in coelesce so far noticed.

[11:06]

xavi

thanks chibaguy, and in fact, I could see inmy local that the highlight that I committed is better than nothing, but not as clear as in thenews, since the highlighter yellowish color falls behind the button like bluish in strasa
so feel free to improve (but I would suggest anything clearer than just the darker blue from the hover button)

chibaguy

ok, I'll check on that.

xavi

my 2 cents

chibaguy

luciash

chibaguy: i'll add z-index higher than module titles, right ?

[11:10]

chibaguy

yep, should be ok.
but module titles don't have a z-index, so.....
that's why I think the problem is related to the absolute position of the menu in strasa.
(why we don't see the problem in other themes that don't position the menu that way)

[11:10]

luciash

chibaguy: yep, it must be related

[11:15]

chibaguy

time to eat here; will be back soon.

[11:23]

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[11:24]

xavi

luciash: to preserve the environment: why not "Text area & Plugins" as that title at the admin panel?
sorry to come back with this issue... and specially now that chibaguy is at dinner time :-/
I'm just enabling some plugins in dev.tw.o, and I thought about it again, sorry
I might even commit it myself if not too many places to change (I guess just at one tpl, isn't it?)
ok, I see that current "text area" in tiki 3.0 also has settings for things other than just wiki (like forum minimm size)

[11:28]

luciash

xavi: i'm not sure all these settings affect only form textareas

xavi

+1 then to change to "Editing & Plugins", if you don't like the more conservative (towards "preserve" environment) proposal

luciash

it's two tpls

xavi

2 tpl's, ok, not too much , I can cope with it

luciash

tiki-admin-include-anchors.tpl
tiki-admin-include-list-sections.tpl

[11:33]

xavi

not only textareas, I agree, after looking to it again

[11:33]

luciash

i can help fix translations but i don't know how to say "Editing" in languages though :)
maybe we have already translated "Edit" but not "Editing" i guess

[11:35]

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[11:37]

xavi

neither do I know all langs... :-/ (neither google translate does 100% good translation, but that could help)

[11:40]

oups, I've just got the plugin help text in dev.tw.o in french! (and my interface has been in English for months)
and some minutes ago it was in English, as usual

[11:53]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18468 10/branches/3.0/styles/darkroom.css: [FIX]darkroom: calfocus on
tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18469 10/branches/3.0/styles/darkroom.css: [FIX]darkroom: border around day in view mode

[11:54]

chibaguy

I'm back now

[12:01]

xavi

wb chibaguy . so "Editing & Plugins" for those 2 tpls, then.

[12:13]

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[12:18]

chibaguy

Ok, personally I like "and" better than "&" in titles.

[12:19]

xavi

ok chibaguy

[12:19]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18470 10/branches/3.0/styles/strasa.css: [FIX] strasa: slightly higher z-index for css horiz menus to prevent undergoing right col module titles + improvements to the edit/search helper specific to strasa (for now)

[12:24]

chibaguy

yay luciash

[12:24]

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[12:29]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18471 10/branches/3.0/ (styles/darkroom.css templates/tiki-calendar_calmode.tpl): [MOD]calendar: a little icon to link to the day detail directly in the day cell

[12:29]

chibaguy

chibaguy wonders if other themes should have styling for that little icon in tiki-calendar_calmode.tpl....)

[12:31]

sylvieg

Is ok in strsa darkroom et thenews...
s/et/and
in any case the cell classes is hard coded in the template mainly :-(

[12:33]

chibaguy

ah, ok, thanks sylvieg.

[12:34]

sylvieg

I think that the add event button must be smaller too
just the green plus will be enough..

[12:34]

xavi

chibaguy and luciash: col size in split plugin is broken to me in strasa, but working as usual with thenews. Example: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=PluginTitleSearch
is this easy to fix it myself adding something in strasa.css?
in strasa,css I see div.split { border: 1px dashed #696969; clear: both}

[12:39]

luciash

xavi: how broken ?

[12:41]

xavi

hold on...
this {SPLIT(colsize=>30%|5%|65%)} has no efect in strasa.css
the one in the left (35%) and the one in the right (65%) are shown equally wide
under strasa, but shown as expected (and as usual) under thenews.css

[12:42]

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[12:44]

xavi

I see that in thenews.css there is no div.split defined....
and related to table.wikiplugin-split, both of them have the same content
maybe the "clear: both" is responsible for the problem with width display in split...

[12:45]

chibaguy

I think the left column containing a code plugin might be a problem there...
it's coded in css to be 500px wide,
so putting it in a table td that's 30% wide would make the entire table very wide. Maybe the browser wants to reduce the 60%-wide td instead.

[12:48]

xavi

about "Editing and Plugins" or "Editing & Plugins": I see "Look & Feel" but "Site Ads and Banners"...
any preference from the devs in irc right now?

[12:51]

chibaguy

Yes, I know. Look & Feel should be Look and Feel imho
chibaguy tries not to think of erotic alt meanings of phrase.

[12:51]

xavi

why code plugin width "hard"coded in css?
:-)
alt meanings :-)
luciash?

[12:52]

chibaguy

Because without a width, the code box can sometimes be extremely wide, so I wanted it to have a scrollbar in such a case. Ideally, it'd be width: 100% or slightly less...
...but some browsers produced strange results with a percent width, so I made it 500px as a rough idea of what people would want in the center column.

[12:53]

xavi

ok, I understand
issues with percent: which browsers, for curiosity? (I never saw that and I've been using % in split plugin for years)

[12:54]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18472 10/branches/3.0/styles/darkroom.css: [MOD]darkroom: beter to put cell with info on a darker background

chibaguy

I'm editing strasa.css now (for versions), so will try something for the split table.

xavi

but I manily use ff if I can, of IE if there is no other option in public or univ. computers

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xavi

thanks again, chibaguy

[12:56]

ricks99

hi all. what is current status of 3.0 release?

[12:56]

xavi

good question ricks99 :-) (and hi). No idea myself
relase30process has many things on it

[12:56]

ricks99

tx
(and hi xavi)

[12:57]

xavi

xavi 's personal guess is that marclaporte would love to release 3.0 in the next tikifest (ontario, I think) at the latest, if not selforganized the release earlier
but please, don't share my personal guess with anyone ;-)

[12:58]

ricks99

ur prob right

[13:00]

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[13:01]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18473 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-show_help.tpl: [FIX] tiki show help: usability fix to give hint the help sections are clickable and display "toggle" in a tooltip + if shadowbox is on allow to expand the help to fill the screen in it

[13:03]

chibaguy

xavi, I found that div class="codelisting" can be 95% wide in the split table's tds, so it won't insist on 500px wide and so should conform to the td cell width there. :-)
I'll commit the edited strasa.css soon.

[13:05]

xavi

ok, great, thanks

[13:05]

chibaguy

your guess on the release time makes sense to me too.
the up-side of the delay is that lots of things are getting fixed/improved.

[13:06]

xavi

code plugin will be much nicer also on wider screen resolutions... :-)
:-)

[13:06]

chibaguy

well, it's still 500px wide outside of the wikiplugin_split's table...

xavi

ah, ok

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xavi

no problem, forget my last comment about code plugin in wider screens...
xavi wonders how to go back in irc and delete a comment as if it was not written a moment ago :-)

chibaguy

well, that 500px width bothers me too, so I'd like to find a way to have a percentage width.

[13:08]

xavi

hi MatWho and MatWho_ :-)

[13:08]

MatWho_

hi
hi_

[13:08]

ricks99

in 3.0, how to disable full-screen option when editing wiki pages?
dont see an option on wiki or text area admin pages

[13:09]

marclaporte

on barebones install, there are two different looking edit section icons: why?
(on entry page)

[13:10]

xavi

marclaporte, ricks and MatWho_: ok also with renaming "Text area" with "Editing and Plugins"? (see irc back log if needed)
s/ricks / ricks99

ricks99

"and" instead of "&"... fine w/ me

xavi

xavi is ready to commit the change in those 2 tpl's...

MatWho_

marclaporte

just label or name of file?

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xavi

so also "Look & Feel" for "Look and Feel"?
marclaporte: just labels

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xavi

name of file?

marclaporte

tiki-admin_include_text_area.php

xavi

argh, you are right, name of file should be also, to be consistent...

marclaporte

if you rename file, it's more risky.

xavi

I know (and also tpl file name involved)

marclaporte

I have no opinon, what you think is best

xavi

mmm, -1 to rename files at this pre-3.0 stage

marclaporte

file name and label doesn't have to be consistent

ricks99

agree (with xavi) -1

marclaporte

better but not deal breaker
so if you think it's better label, it's ok to change while keeping old file names,

MatWho_

leave a stub for tiki-admin_include_text_area.php and change name of file

xavi

ok. And "Look & Feel" for "Look and Feel"?

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[13:19]

marclaporte

ricks99: on first run, this tiki-admin.php?page=community throws a lot of false messages. Do you know why?
xavi: : no objection

[13:25]

ricks99

i think because a new install, a lot of "defautls" are not yet set
the options that are not selected are not yet in the db.
imho, ideally shouldn't tiki *completely* populate the preferences table?

[13:26]

xavi

no clear opinion on that, ricks99 myself

amette

dev and doc are svn upped

xavi

hey amette! welcome back! :-)

amette

heya xavi - thanks! :)

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03campbe13 * r18474 10/trunk/doc/devtools/release.php: [FIX] undo 18450 replace readline() func

[13:30]

marclaporte

amette: : yay
amette : tiki-mind-map?

[13:40]

amette

marclaporte: where does it come from?

[13:40]

marclaporte

instructions are here: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-mindmap.php

[13:42]

MatWho_

is the "report a bug" page if IE problem fixed/being worked on by someone I have a feew hous spare for bug fixing

[13:43]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03nagendra016 * r18475 10/branches/3.0/lib/setup/prefs.php: [FIX]After a new install, in metatags admin page, enabling one or two options of threadtitle, imagetitle, freetags results in notes which shows information about all three option rather than only changed features.

[13:43]

amette

huaaa... flush, err. flash, well, needs to be flushed, well, whatever...
marclaporte: done
so this visorFreemind.swf needs to be put there manually every time? doesn't go into the distribution?

[13:44]

sylvieg

MatWho_ I posted a question with np was used in the MODULE
if you delete the param np it works

[13:45]

MatWho_

Hi all nagendra016 is our GSOC student from India, who has just started. He is blocked from IRC at University (this will be fixed in a few days) I have sent him some more bugs to look at but it might be nice to say hi.

[13:45]

sylvieg

- there is probably a conflict in the wiki parsing

[13:45]

MatWho_

sylvieg: ok, so is it worth trying to fix?

[13:46]

marclaporte

MatWho: :irc.tikiwiki.org for web access

[13:46]

sylvieg

if somebody has an explanation for using np param...

ricks99

@MatWho_ can nagendra016 join via mibbit?

MatWho_

no the university has blocked mibbit as well!

marclaporte

: amette: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-mindmap.php
hahahah

amette

marclaporte: coming
marclaporte: distro or custom file=
s/=/?

[13:48]

MatWho_

he is off to get a different connection. If he comes back do we still do the ceremony?

[13:48]

marclaporte

yes!

[13:49]

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[13:49]

c_schmitz

guys, I love Tikiwiki

[13:50]

luciash

chibaguy: are you done editing strasa ?
c_schmitz: welcome

[13:50]

c_schmitz

but the worst thing ever is that anonymous users can change linked translations - there is no permission to to repvent that - nor there is a log entry to soo what happened

[13:50]

MatWho_

marc OK so when he is back - lets do it.He is working on the admin lockout bug now.

c_schmitz

that really sucks

luciash

chibaguy: need to fix z-index of edit helper

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r18476 10/branches/3.0/lib/wiki-plugins/wikiplugin_versions.php: [FIX] Version content given a class for css styling.

c_schmitz

it makes the whole linked translation thingy useless

[13:52]

luciash

chibaguy put 20 instead of 2

[13:52]

ricks99

@c_schmitz: there is a tiki_p_detach_translation permission.
remove that from anonymous group?

[13:52]

c_schmitz

it is removed
but keeps people only from detaching
not changing the language of a page or attaching

[13:53]

xavi

c_schmitz: if you know how to fix, you are welcome

chibaguy

ok luciash, I'll do the edit helper z-index change.

ricks99

sounds like need a new perm

c_schmitz

yes

xavi

c_schmitz: I mean, you are welcome anyway :-). And of course, if you know how to fix, you are welcome to fix it :-)

[13:55]

c_schmitz

xavi: this is not a fix but a whole new permission needed - it is a huge shortcoming from whoever implemented that part - I am, running a Wiki in 6 languages and all the translation links are garbled because of this shortcoming

[13:56]

ricks99

quick fix: maybe just fix the wording on bottom half of "tiki-edit_translation"?
or check for specific admin-level perm for the "Change lang for this page" section?

[13:57]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18477 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-plugin_help.tpl: [FIX] plugin help: when using Shadowbox and inserting new plugin block via plugin helper + plugin edit, close Shadowbox "window"

[13:58]

xavi

c_schmitz: we know in wiki-translation.com , bots use to do it form time to time. And so far, nobody found it (or cold look at it). adding a new perm is easy. Unluckily, I'm not a php coder, and it's not adding a perm into the database, probably, but touching the whatever php files that ned to check for that

[13:58]

c_schmitz

what I did in the past was editing the code so the "translate feature' would not show up for anonymous users by attaching it to the detach_translation permission
but with an update the changes are (naturally) gone

[13:59]

xavi

c_schmitz: propose those changes in devel list (where other coders for i18n are), and commit your changes to themain code base, I would say
this way, we all benefit from your fixes, in the same way that you benefit from the fixes in themain code base

[13:59]

c_schmitz

Xavi: it is mainly caused by users who think that 'transalte' mean they can translate the page an don't realize they are changing the page language

[14:00]

xavi

sorry, I'm off to urgent things to fix before late luch.

[14:01]

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[14:03]

c_schmitz

well.. I guess for the 1.x branch no new feature will be implemented anymore, won't it?

[14:04]

marclaporte

even 2.x, no new feature
and 3.x, only in certain cases
new features normally go on 4.x

[14:06]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r18478 10/branches/3.0/styles/transitions/2.0to3.0.css: [FIX] Increase #tikihelp z-index (thanks luci).

[14:06]

marclaporte

wow
already 4.x
time flies

[14:08]

c_schmitz

I see
so If i need a permisison like that which version would it be?

[14:10]

sylvieg

did lph develop the plugin interface validation?
sorry found it

[14:11]

luciash

chibaguy: thank you

[14:12]

xavi

c_schmitz: trunk (will be 4.0), and to the new branch called "proposed", so that the "Quality team" can review to include it in 3.1 or not (I guess yes, since this is a know bug for long)
c_schmitz: see http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Commit
the "proposed" branch might not be documented yet, since it's pretty new

[14:12]

marclaporte

c_schmitz: what version are you on?

c_schmitz

latest 2.x

sylvieg

I have a fun one... how can I approve the module register in http://dev.tikiwiki.org/report%20a%20bug

chibaguy

Some of the core themes have #tikihelp css also. I'll add it to the ones that don't, to be safe. But this redundancy will be resolved when layout.css replaces transitions.

marclaporte

because I remember Alain_Desilets explaining that one problem is that people change the page language when they intend to translate

sylvieg

I need to be admin to validate = but I only see it as anonymous :-D

marclaporte

sylvieg: : yes, I know! I created another wiki page with plugin content, so I could validate

[14:14]

sylvieg

btw seems that user modules must be validated now???

[14:14]

marclaporte

sylvieg: I added validation on module plugin

sylvieg

is it optional?

luciash

chibaguy: but seems thenews still have z-index for css horiz menu higher than that

marclaporte

sylvieg: : this is totally debatable and maybe we should remove

xavi

marclaporte: +1 :-)

marclaporte

the thing is, with 100+ modules, I feel it gives too much power to any user

sylvieg

should be a apram I suppose..

marclaporte

to add a module which discloses info that the admin doesn't want to disclose
for example
I do not know how to make more fined-grained
but it's quite annoying now
safer, but annoying

[14:16]

sylvieg

and group perms on modyule are not enough?

marclaporte

do we have that now?

ricks99

need to b able to "group" modules & plugins, then mass approve by user group.
example: Anon users can auto-approve modules in group Foo, Registered can autoapprove modules in groups Foo and Bar, etc.

sylvieg

I hope it is working..

marclaporte

c_schmitz: i think, in version 3.0, changing the current language of a page, is still there but much less obvious because it's something people should do very rarely

[14:18]

c_schmitz

[14:19]

marclaporte

c_schmitz: can you take a look at branches/3.0 and see if this seems ok, or if you think there still should be an additional perm

[14:19]

c_schmitz

if it can be misused it will be ;)

[14:19]

sylvieg

... this part seems to be missing: MODULE does not check the perm set (I know for column) in admin->modules...

[14:20]

chibaguy

yeah, I'll change that.
luciash, oh, wait, maybe I misunderstood.

[14:22]

amette

doc.tw.o is mindmapped

[14:25]

luciash

chibaguy: i'll check your commit

[14:26]

chibaguy

I only committed the transition file so far.

[14:26]

luciash

chibaguy: seems ok, that's what i meant

[14:27]

chibaguy

TheNews gets its css menu z-index from css/cssmenus.css.
ah, ok.

[14:27]

luciash

chibaguy: what is the value of it ?
is it higher than 20 ?

[14:27]

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xavi

luciash: nice change in "plugin help" display through shadowbox, but nowadays, when you click on the insert icon, the user keeps seing the shadowbox, and he/she would think that he/she did nothing on the text...

MatWho_

hi nagendra016

chibaguy

oh yeah: 800 (#header .cssmenu_horiz)

luciash

xavi: i fixed it

nagendra016

MatWho_

welcome to tikiwiki IRC

xavi

if after insert click, the shadow box could be minimized, that would be even better, from the usability point of view for end users

luciash

xavi: svn up

xavi

nagendra016: welcome to TikiWiki Community! :-)

nagendra016

thank you

ricks99

hi nag

xavi

luciash: well, it's in doc.tw.o :-)

ricks99

nagendra016 (oopd)

MatWho_

hi all can I introduce nagendra016 he is out GSOC sutudent from India

luciash

xavi: amette was svn upping earlier than the fix came out ;)

xavi

so I can't myself, only amette, if he hasn't shared account and howto details
:-)

MatWho_

he really starts today, and has just made his first commit!!

nagendra016

hi all

sylvieg

hi nagendra016

luciash

nagendra016: welcome
MatWho_: great :)

xavi

luciash: ok

nagendra016

thank you all :)

MatWho_

I have given nagendra016 some onother bug to fix, it is a good way to get him going on Tikiwiki

nagendra016

i am very delighted to be a part of our community

marclaporte

hi nagendra016 and welcome to TikiWiki!

amette

xavi: the howto is the problem
find someone that fixes the structure/permission-bug... ;)

xavi

amette, I thought so :-)

amette

... but I'll start documenting without structures!
amette goes svn upping

xavi

structure/permission-bug?

amette

yeah, if you're not admin, you can't add pages to a structure

xavi

amette, why not also gtk-recordmysektop-ing?

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amette

the permission-check is wrong

xavi

amette: :-) that's not true
at least for 2.4 :-)
I've been doing this for month with my students here for production: http://iesbarcelona.org/esso350

amette

because gtk-recordmydesktop-ing facilitates stupid people following stupid guidelines step-by-step without thinking...
... and I want people to understand what they are doing - otherwise it's worthless and doomed to fail.

[14:33]

xavi

ammete, I storngly disagree, but I respect your opinion, of course

amette

hmm, well, in 3.0 it doesn't work, we checked that out in Montreal...
... we traced it to the problematic line, but didn't really know how to fix

xavi

this way, no videos for documentation would be used... and they speed up the process of getting a quick idea of how the thing works

amette

well, however with the videos: it will take more time to get the video stuff running than writing wiki-pages on it ;)

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amette

so I will forget about the structures and start documenting :)

xavi

amette, ok. In 2.4, afair, you had to grant permission on the homepage of the structure,

amette

hmmm....
I have tiki_p_edit_structure (or something like that) for Registered
actually I have all the wiki-perms for Registered and no special perms afaik

marclaporte

how do I set perms for modules?

amette

Admin->Modules ??

[14:36]

xavi

amette, afaik, you had to set the local perm on that homepage of the structure for your users also
and from there, you can grant also to the other pages of the same structure, afair
and they can do it
(they can add pages then, I mean, through the top navigational bar)

[14:36]

amette

xavi: I juggled all the perms and gave up, then I debugged that problem (because I wanted to document in Montreal) with nyloth and we didn't get it going...
... and I used that before..
.. so I know that it once worked..

[14:37]

xavi

ok, there might be a bug in 3.x then

amette

xavi: can you try to get it running on your setup in 3.0?

xavi

sorry, not now

amette

yeah, the top navigation bar doesn't even show the possibility to add a page - it's completely missing

xavi

I'm kind of 4h late for deadline for today, aside of tw stuff, which is still quite in most of my screens on the computer
(finishing some pages for upgrade, tiki3, multitiki, and file gals behavior for images in tiki 3)

[14:39]

amette

[14:39]

MatWho_

amette: are you up for running a welcome ceremony for nagendra016

[14:40]

amette

MatWho_: I'm always in for a ceremony! :)
just need an admin here! :)

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amette

amette gets a cup of coffee first..
luciash: ceremony?! :)

MatWho_

yes!!!

luciash

chibaguy: isn't 800 too high ?

ricks99

@xavi? whats issue w/ structures?

xavi

ask amette

ricks99

seemed ok on my sites (upgradded to 3.0

chibaguy

luciash, I found other z-indexes in the files and 800 was near but not at the top, iirc.
can be lowered if there are no problems doing that.

[14:44]

luciash

if you prefer to stay with 800, the #tikihelp must have 801 at least, otherwise the menu goes over in thenews and others which place the help on top right corner
sorry, guys, kind of rushy here for the ceremony

[14:44]

chibaguy

I don't have a reason to stay with 800. As long as it's at a good level...

[14:45]

luciash

marclaporte: ? ^

[14:45]

MatWho_

amette: are you back?

[14:48]

amette

MatWho_: back? or back? ;)
I'm at least more available again!!

MatWho_

hoho

marclaporte

admin modules permits me to put groups, but not tiki_p_edit, tiki_p_view (http://dev.tikiwiki.org/wish1887)

MatWho_

nagendra016: is waiting to be introduced ..

marclaporte

marclaporte things a dev.tikiwiki.org/z-index page would be welcome to gather common understand on this

chibaguy

marclaporte, I agree; there are actually dozens of z-index settings in our files.

[14:51]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18479 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-edit_help.tpl: no need to display the little help icon only for wiki syntax (no plugins) when there's the complete help on top right

[14:51]

MatWho_

luciash: amette Can we do a ceremony for nagendra016 ? It is his first day and his first commit.

[14:53]

sylvieg

xavi: I am trying to merge which icon like lib/images/icons/abw.png must I use in trunk - the one in trunk or the one in 3?

[14:54]

xavi

the one in 3 is ok

[14:54]

sylvieg

thx

[14:54]

xavi

I ported the fixes to 3 and trunk

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18480 10/branches/3.0/lib/smarty_tiki/block.add_help.php: smarty add help block/icon: better not to hardcode the width and height for shadowbox

luciash

MatWho_: try marclaporte or sylvie, if you don't succeed, i'm listening but very busy

xavi

there will be many more icons like that
xavi put the ceremony hat on

LordVan

cya

xavi

^ MatWho_ and nagendra016

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xavi

s/put/puts on himself:-)

MatWho_

thanks xavi

xavi

so nagendra016, first question: Do you know and agree with the three rules?

nagendra016

yes
i agree

xavi

:-)

nagendra016

xavi

this sounds to me like a wedding! lol

nagendra016

haha

[14:58]

marclaporte

marclaporte takes wedding pictures

[14:58]

MatWho_

Hey take this seriously ;)

[14:59]

xavi

the second question is (in my version of the ceremony, sorry for the other devs ;-): are your ready to be thanked by the community for your commits/fixes?
xavi wonders why some people find this question difficult to answer...

[14:59]

nagendra016

yes

[15:00]

xavi

:-)
and the third and more difficult one....
xavi hears some devs saying "tachan"...
what's your sf.net account?

[15:00]

nagendra016

that easy question :P

[15:01]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18481 10/trunk/ (158 files in 70 dirs): [MRG] Automatic merge, branches/3.0 18299 to 18473

[15:01]

nagendra016

[15:02]

xavi

xavi is confused and delayed because sf.net changed layout...

[15:02]

MatWho_

he is already set up

[15:02]

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nagendra016

MatWho_

just nice to have a ceremony :)

xavi

hey, man, then why the ceremony if not for granting the permissions! :-)

MatWho_

to welcome him to us - WELCOME nagendra016

nagendra016

thank you !! thank you !! :)

xavi

ok, welcome again nagendra016, but this time as official committer to tw! :-)

ricks99

*clap*

nagendra016

marclaporte

*clap * *clap* *clap*

chibaguy

chibaguy pours drinks

xavi

xavi is still wondering how to find tw project in sf.net using latest konqueror... those software upgrades.... (I feel like the users from a tiki2 site when they will find their site upgraded to tiki3-jqueryfied... :-)

MatWho_

drinks it

chibaguy

chibaguy refills

luciash

luciash missed nagendra016 's commit ?

amette

welcome nagendra016 !! :)
amette hugs nagendra016

MatWho_

r18475 /branches/3.0/lib/setup/prefs.php

nagendra016

thank you amette

xavi

nagendra016: so from India and in UK, or is MatWho_ in India drinking from your cup?

luciash

MatWho_: ah

MatWho_

if only I was in India, the tea is very good :)

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18482 10/branches/3.0/tiki-admin.php: typo

xavi

:-)
xavi vanishes again to unfinished stuff

MatWho_

Thanks all, back to work!

nagendra016

Thanks all :)

[15:08]

rodrigo_sampaio

rodrigo_sampaio just finished reading the page http://doc.tikiwiki.org/TikiWiki+3.0 and is amazed by the huge list of new features in tiki 3.0
:)

[15:09]

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[15:09]

xavi

:-) well, this is not all (hi Rogrido :-), but just the tiny part a few of us could document. The full list is in dev (linked from the beggning of the doc page)
s/Rogrido/Rodrigo
xavi 's fingers are getting mad because they didn't get any food yet since marclaporte was going to bed...
rodrigo_sampaio: for instance, it doesn't say anything about the new version of morcego... :-)
so that there is room for improvements from things you know... (I don't very well know the improvements you made in there, btw), as far as it's back working fine :-)

[15:10]

rodrigo_sampaio

xavi: actually i also don't about the improvements in the new version of morcego, i just did the upgrade in tikiwiki, luis is the one who made it a long time ago
xavi: i did not have the chance yet to test mindmap but i feel like mindmap and morcego have the same goals, right?

[15:13]

xavi

ok, fine , just realized about the fact that I forgot to mention morcego in there

[15:14]

rodrigo_sampaio

xavi: and morcego is not working on 64bits :(

[15:14]

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[15:14]

luciash

rodrigo_sampaio: and i wondered why morcego java browser doesn't work anymore in my browsers :-o

[15:17]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18483 10/branches/3.0/styles/transitions/2.0to3.0.css: [FIX] z-index 20 for #tikihelp wasn't succesfull, giving it 820 because the css menus have 800
tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18484 10/branches/3.0/ (7 files in 5 dirs):
tikiwiki: [FIX]calendar: change only focus when click on change focus link and not when
tikiwiki: navigating in the calendar + new_option : viewmode for mod-calendar_new (as was
tikiwiki: cited as a feature in doc.tw) + new param month_delay to be able to display one
tikiwiki: month before or after +_ some css tuning

[15:17]

rodrigo_sampaio

luciash: maybe one day batawata will fix morcego for 64bits...

[15:18]

chibaguy

ah, luciash, the 800 z-index for css menus is lower than shadowbox?
at one point I noticed the menus bleeding through, but am not sure if it got fixed or not.

[15:19]

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[15:24]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18485 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-show_help.tpl: no need to keep the help_sections open when opening to shadowbox from there
tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r18486 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-print_pages.tpl: [FIX] Remove link to nowhere. We would need help with http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Restore+Help+Pages to clean everything up.

[15:25]

rodrigo_sampaio

after upgrading tiki 2.4 to tiki 3.0 RC1 the sidebar is broken (appear below the main content div) using a default tikineat style. any ideas? the url for this is is http://wiki.hacklab.com.br

[15:27]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03pkdille * r18487 10/branches/3.0/styles/coelesce.css: [FIX] coelesce: fix the sitesearchbar look when the selected language is not english

[15:29]

chibaguy

rodrigo_sampaio: tikineat is no longer compatible with Tiki 3.

sylvieg

rodrigo_sampaio: tikineat is no more maintained

chibaguy

:-)

rodrigo_sampaio

chibaguy: ok :)

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03xavidp * r18488 10/branches/3.0/templates/ (2 files):
tikiwiki: [FIX] As discussed on irc today, change 'Text area' label for 'Editing and
tikiwiki: Plugins', and 'Look & Feel' for 'Look and Feel'. Sorry for the inconveniences
tikiwiki: for translators, but this is to reduce the number of continuous suport requests
tikiwiki: even from devs not finding where to enable plugins, etc.

rodrigo_sampaio

chibaguy: which is the default theme now?
as tikineat is not maintained anymore should we put a message for users using tikineat after upgrading?

[15:32]

sylvieg

did you averwrite your intall?
on a fresh install it would have work I think
there is instruction somewhere how to add lite.css to have old themes working in 3

[15:33]

luciash

luciash wonders why on bare bones default install Tiki changes theme to Strasa after installation :-/

[15:35]

marclaporte

luciash: : log out

sylvieg

s/working in 3/working in 2

luciash

do we really want to clone tw.o sites ?

rodrigo_sampaio

sylvieg: i did an upgrade (copy the new tiki files over the old installation directory), so i still have all the old themes in my tiki installation

marclaporte

if you re-install while already logged in, you get weirdness

luciash

marclaporte: log out ?
marclaporte: ah
marclaporte: but i'm logged out

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r18489 10/branches/3.0/styles/coelesce.css: [FIX] Version plugin styling; #tikihelp z-index increased.

Tikiwiki|bot

New Forum Posts: admin validation email setup and configured but not working properly! - http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=2&comments_parentId=32883

marclaporte

ok, then I have no explanation :-)

luciash

marclaporte: i only choose "use existing connection"

SEWilco2

Did you flush caches?
Maybe the bot should issue a cache flush reminder upon the word "weird" or "weirdness"

luciash

luciash goes to change the site theme to thenews and flush cache to see

[15:38]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r18490 10/branches/3.0/styles/darkroom.css: [FIX] Version plugin styling; #tikihelp z-index increased.

[15:39]

SEWilco2

"Get your thenews here!"

[15:39]

sylvieg

is http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-mindmap.php working? I do not understand what I have to do ...

[15:40]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r18491 10/branches/3.0/styles/feb12.css: [FIX] Version plugin styling; #tikihelp z-index increased.

[15:41]

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[15:41]

marclaporte

sylvieg: : also blank for me :-(

[15:42]

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[15:44]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r18492 10/branches/3.0/styles/strasa.css: [FIX] Version plugin styling; #tikihelp z-index increased.

[15:44]

luciash

SEWilco2: you wereright, now it works

[15:45]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r18493 10/branches/3.0/styles/thenews.css: [FIX] Version plugin styling; #tikihelp z-index increased.

SEWilco2

luciash: No, you were right to describe it as "weird". That's all that I responded to.

sylvieg

marclaporte: what are you suppose to put in the input box?

luciash

marclaporte: funny i get now _HOMEPAGE_CONTENT_ when i choosed czech language during the installation

SEWilco2

Up and up the z-index goes.

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[15:47]

SEWilco2

That doesn't look Czech.

[15:47]

luciash

marclaporte: seems newbie is lost when not remembering admin:admin from the installation steps and translator will be lost because in language.php they will get no idea what to put there
SEWilco2: heh about the z-index
chibaguy: actually for strasa the z-index for #tikihelp wasn't necessary to increase because the #tikihelp appears under the header not over it as in other themes
chibaguy: but it shouldn't hurt anyway

[15:47]

chibaguy

ok, btw, why does strasa have different #tikihelp css than other themes (width and height are different, for example)?

[15:49]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r18494 10/branches/3.0/styles/layout/layout.css: [FIX] Version plugin styling; #tikihelp z-index increased.

chibaguy

any idea?

luciash

chibaguy: because i was improving the look of it specifically for strasa and while placing it under #header (there was nice space for it) i had to change the height of it, otherwise it went too down with these percents, then i found out it's very hard to doo it with percents at all so i changed to pixels and the result is fine i think

chibaguy

ok, was just wondering.

marclaporte

marclaporte wishes we could set password in installer
with a checkbox, force change at first run
optional off, but this would be useful for farms

[15:53]

xavi

rodrigo_sampaio: morcego and wiki 3d cited in tiki3 page. My 2 cents to honur your work ;-)
s/honur/honour
http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki3 I mean

[15:54]

luciash

luciash thought it's batawata's baby

[15:54]

xavi

luciash: yes, but rodrigo_sampaio did the implementation in tiki :-)

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luciash

aah, really ?

xavi

or the upgrade in tiki3, anyhow, share part of paternality :-)

luciash

iirc it's there for ages, but might be improved in tiki3, unfortunatelly it doesn't work for me on doc.tw.o

[15:56]

MatWho_

marclaporte: I will give it to nagendra once he has fixed the admin lock out bug
marclaporte: its all good warm up stuff!

[15:56]

luciash

*g*, /me just realized profiles have different themes

xavi

luciash: are you on 64bit box?

luciash

xavi: i have no idea but my machine was changed recently so it's possible, yes :-p

marclaporte

MatWho_ : yay!
that will make it easier for new people

rodrigo_sampaio

xavi: thanks :)

xavi

a pleasure :-)

[15:58]

rodrigo_sampaio

luciash: morcego is batawata baby, all i did was update the morcego version in tiki

[15:58]

MatWho_

marclaporte: he was very happy to have a ceremony, thanks everyone

[15:58]

luciash

MatWho_ and marclaporte: trunk or 3.0 ? this admin pass setting in installer is very sensitive imho and needs some time for testing

MatWho_

marclaporte: do you have requirements for admin password change on a wiki page somwhere?

Tikiwiki|bot

New Forum Posts: Edit button not showing - http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=32884

luciash

rodrigo_sampaio: ah, great

MatWho_

luciash: sure

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[16:00]

sylvieg

+1 luciash

[16:00]

marclaporte

marclaporte is pretty sure he'll get in trouble with Quality Team but perhaps they won't notice

[16:01]

MatWho_

luciash: so what is it sensitive to exactly
marclaporte: this is for trunk not 3.0 sorry I assumed that was obvious

[16:01]

luciash

MatWho_: security, mess-up when user sets his password and then forgots, etc.

[16:02]

marclaporte

hehe
still excellent on trunk
so we can test and apply for 3.1

[16:02]

MatWho_

marclaporte: no seriously, feature freeze on 3.0 is very important

[16:03]

sylvieg

+1 marclaporte
'can' does not mena we will do... or I need some English lesson

[16:03]

marclaporte

apply: I mean submit an application for review/approval by quality team

[16:04]

MatWho_

sylvieg: I will try to use trunk as much as I can. Just wonder if all the activity on 3.0 recently is going to be there.

[16:05]

sylvieg

I just merged .. 1 hour ago...

[16:06]

luciash

MatWho_: i'm switching to trunk today ;)

[16:06]

MatWho_

OK that is all great. hey this is going to work out well!!

[16:06]

sylvieg

if merges are not done enough oftern - do it yourself or ask me ;-)

[16:07]

MatWho_

OK I will try both! Thanks.

[16:07]

xavi

marclaporte: quick question. is trim designed also to handle different tikis in the same server, or only in different servers?
xavi is upgrading "Multitiki" page in doc.tw.o

[16:16]

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[16:16]

sylvieg

can be same server but different tiki root (not multitiki)

[16:17]

xavi

yes, I know it's not multitiki. ok, thanks, from your answer I guess that yes, uit's been designed to also handle different tiki installations in the same server, not only in different servers.
thanks sylvieg

[16:18]

marclaporte

xavi: : could be on same server, TRIM asks which directory

[16:18]

xavi

ok, thanks

[16:19]

sylvieg

for the multitiki , mose/niclone have a metaw.. they never commit - but if .... perhaps

[16:20]

xavi

btw, I don't knwo how to set up a multitiki using only ftp (symlinks are needed in my approach, the closest to multitiki by ftp...): http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Manual+Installation
sylvieg: metaw ?

[16:20]

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[16:20]

chibaguy

cya later, everyone. :-)

[16:21]

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[16:21]

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[16:31]

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[16:43]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18495 10/trunk/tiki-listpages.php: [FIX]listpage: memo orphan choice

[16:43]

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[16:47]

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[16:55]

rodrigo_sampaio

another issue after migrating from 2.4 to 3.0: the plugin toc is enabled in the plugin manager but it displays a message "WARNING: Plugin disabled toc!". ideas?

[16:55]

sylvieg

you need to validate them manually the list is in tiki-plugins.php

[16:59]

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[17:00]

rodrigo_sampaio

sylvieg: on tiki-plugins.php: "No plugin pending approval."

[17:03]

ricks99

@rodrigo confirm the plugin is enabled, clear tiki cache

[17:04]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18496 10/branches/3.0/lib/menubuilder/menulib.php: [FIX]menu: to have the selected option working with an url with :

[17:04]

sylvieg

disabled - sorry
need to go to admin->plugin and allowed it

[17:04]

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[17:06]

rodrigo_sampaio

ricks99, sylvieg: the plugins is enabled in admin -> text area -> plugins. i've checked the database base and in tiki_preferences i have wikiplugin_toc: 'y'

[17:06]

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[17:06]

rodrigo_sampaio

im going to clean the cache and test it again

xavi

rodrigo_sampaio: this is known issue
upgrade disable the structures, unluckily :-(
It happened to me days ago.

rodrigo_sampaio

xavi: there is a know fix?

xavi

I added it yesterday (or ealier this morning) to the release30process on dev.tw.o
I don't know how to fix

ricks99

@xavi: wrt structures, becaise struts are now optional (disabled by default)

sylvieg

the prefs feautre_structures? or something like this?

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[17:08]

xavi

oh well, yes, there should be somewhere in the upgrade sql scritps (installer/schema) where structures are disabled
ricks99: ok for new install disabled by default, but for the god's sake: not on upgrade!

[17:08]

ricks99

in 2.x if wiki=y, then i agree 100%

[17:09]

xavi

this is anoying to existing admins doing upgrades and getting confusing messages
my 2 cents

[17:09]

ricks99

i also found that the {poll id=xx} is no longer valid (although {poll pollId=XX} works
^ found while upgrading Smarties to 3.0
other than that, upgrade was *very* smooth

[17:09]

xavi

please, those of you who did upgrades, review the http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Upgrade and it's corresponding pages

[17:10]

mlaporte

the condition for keeping structures should not be wiki=y but if there are any structures

[17:10]

xavi

I did my best, but other eyes are needed to avoid further support requests of users getting confused
mlaporte: +1

mlaporte

count structures > 0

ricks99

@xav: should this b in rel notes instead/in addition?

mlaporte

because so many people never used structures and they just have dead / extra links

ricks99

theres a link from installer to rel notes, but not to this Upgrade doc

xavi

last: I started to document the new behavior for image galleries usingn file galleries. People were getting lost, and requesting help in tw.o forums...
please, review and improve: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/File+Gallery+for+Images
or move elsewhere
I NEED FOOD!

rodrigo_sampaio

i'm using tikinewt after the upgrade. i cant browse through the tabs of some of the admin pages (for example in the wiki and text area admin). can anyone confirm this?

ricks99

*rick loves structures :)

xavi

c u, enough for today for me
congrats to all for you hard work improving tiki 3! :-)
I won't be able to be much on irc for some days. I need to meet non-tiki deadlines
cheers

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[17:14]

sylvieg

thx to you too xavi good evening

[17:14]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18497 10/branches/3.0/styles/thenews.css: [FIX] thenews theme: put #tikihelp 25px from top for this theme so it doesn't cover the search bar input and it leaves space for the fullscreen feature icon too

[17:15]

sylvieg

rodrigo_sampaio: confirms too

[17:17]

rodrigo_sampaio

sylvieg: ill try to fix it

[17:18]

sylvieg

the newt is the less standard one

[17:18]

rodrigo_sampaio

sylvieg: im using it after the upgrade as it is the more similar to the good old tikineat :)

[17:19]

luciash

sylvieg, rodrigo_sampaio : there are slight differencies, i think it should be done like on General or Features pages for the other ones too to be consistent
e.g. on Features it also remembers last opened tab and switches to it after applying changes
(cookietab)
but i thing it's huge work still to be fixed and tested on trunk first, then maybe backported to 3.1

[17:21]

rodrigo_sampaio

luciash: right now i have only a few minutes to it and then i have to go back to work. im just going to look for a quick fix to the tabs that hidden

[17:23]

luciash

rodrigo_sampaio: check on which admin page they work and take as a model

[17:23]

rodrigo_sampaio

luciash: thanks

[17:24]

CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18498 10/branches/3.0/modules/mod-calendar_new.php: [FIX]calendar_new: pick the current date for month_delay not now

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[17:49]

mark_f

Hi - getting stumped by custom site header. looked at http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Site%20Identity&redirectpage=Site%20Logo%20and%20Identity%20Config amongst others - got the images to display. The problem is the text to display as a site title. It ends up below the images, not overlaid as I would like. Heres the code I used: http://widget.mibbit.com/pb/iXNT2B

[17:52]

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[17:54]

luciash

mark_f: you have to position the h1 via style

[17:56]

mark_f

Ok, can you point me in the right direction - I have no idea!

[17:57]

luciash

e.g. style="position: absolute; left: 5px; top: 15px"

[17:58]

mark_f

Sorted - thanks:D

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[18:16]

mark_f

Luciash helped me get an openstreetmap displaying in a wiki page as a module the other night. I got stuck when i had a tall thin map and he suggested "width=100%". I had to go to bed after trying various searches and permutations. this is what I have now, but it doesn't work Can someone show me how to format the code. Thanks +++

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CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03pkdille * r18499 10/branches/3.0/styles/coelesce.css: [FIX] coelesce: different parts of find section should not wrap

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[18:55]

luciash

salut patrickallard :)

[18:59]

patrickallard

Salut, Luciash

[18:59]

luciash

mark_f: what you have now ?
mark_f: any link ?

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[19:04]

patrickallard

http://avantech.ourwiki.net/tiki-index.php
I use Thenews Theme
but I want juste a simple theme
not fullscreen option

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[19:06]

patrickallard

because i want customize thme
for a simple center design
with no column
and watch at the button
of this page
the white space
the backgrond doesn't go at the button of the page
I searh why

[19:06]

luciash

patrickallard: you can remove the modules from left/right
patrickallard: something like this Tiki 3.0 site ? → www.menghao.cz

[19:09]

patrickallard

yes I know
but I have problem with the white space in the footer

[19:10]

luciash

ah, give #main height: 100% for IE and min-height: 100% for others
then the included content div must have 100% too
can you do that ?

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[19:13]

luciash

patrickallard: if you only want to have the background gradient follow whole browser viewport, then move it from body {} to html {} in CSS
s/follow/fill/

[19:15]

patrickallard

No the white space is still there
I try
ok for the background :)

[19:15]

luciash

patrickallard: move to html helps, ok ?

[19:18]

patrickallard

yes
thank you
I will try to remove the space in the bottom of page
you have a idea?

[19:18]

luciash

you must play with the height: 100%

[19:20]

patrickallard

in the #main?

[19:20]

luciash

#main and then the others which are inside
but i think body needs it too to make it work
search internet for full-height css solution

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[19:23]

patrickallard

I think it's this tag
.clearfix:after { clear: both;visibility: hidden;content: "."; display: block;height: 0;}
content:"."
what that?
when i remove this
the bottom of ppage is ok

[19:23]

luciash

ah, it renders a dot there

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[19:33]

luciash

patrickallard: you can specify #tiki-top.clearfix:after, #middle.clearfix:after {content: ""; display: none}, it's not needed for them actually i think but it can be necessary for other tags
err, sorry, not for tiki-top, only for the #middle

[19:33]

patrickallard

[19:35]

luciash

if it doesn't help, let me know

[19:35]

patrickallard

no It ils the same probleme with the bottom

[19:40]

luciash

try the same with #wrapper or #tiki-center ?
and #footer
it must be one of them ;)
or all of them :)
(ah, you have no #footer there)

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[20:01]

mib_d33uej

Hi, A few months ago I installed TikiWiki to my website. Unfortunately, things are going in a different direction for my site and I need to remove TW and all of the associated files and content. How do I do this?

[20:04]

MatWho

just delete all of the files and remove the database you created - i think that is all

[20:07]

mib_d33uej

I am not sure which files were there before I got TW, so I don't know what is safe to get rid of

[20:17]

MatWho

oh dear
where ever you installed tw is where the files are you need to delete

[20:21]

mib_d33uej

alright, thank you

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marclaporte

gezza: : tks for translations

nyloth

Hi all :)

marclaporte

hi nyloth!

SEWilco2

SEWilco2 has to think for a moment to translate "tks" :-)

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MatWho

[20:47]

sylvieg

so do I commit an option to have calendar view list either on period boundary or from focudate + focudate+period in 3.0?
last message from nyloth was yes...
seems not dangeurous at all

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[20:50]

nyloth

sylvieg: personnaly I trust you, do what you feel is better since its a usability fix

[20:54]

sylvieg

thx - I do not trust myself...

[20:55]

nyloth

[20:56]

sylvieg

it is a smaller change - smaller than the focus change - but it is a -new- feature / bug fix

[20:57]

mark_f

trying to get a module to display 100% width bu cant get the syntax. Ploease help

[20:58]

gezza

hi
marclaporte: no problem :) I have a question though: the mouseover descriptions of WYSIWYG editor buttons dont seem to react to translation. Any hints what I should do to get them translated?

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[21:02]

marclaporte

gezza: no idea
perhaps in FCKEditor stuff?

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Tikiwiki|bot

Info: June 11-12-13-14, 2009: TikiFest Québec and online! - http://info.tikiwiki.org/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=60

[21:06]

gezza

ok, I look it up, maybe find something

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CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03nyloth * r18500 10/branches/3.0/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [FIX] fren translations + change how TR are placed in one tip in admin wiki in order to be able to translate it correctly
tikiwiki: 03nyloth * r18501 10/branches/3.0/ (installer/tiki-installer.php templates/tiki-install.tpl):
tikiwiki: [FIX][ENH] installer: in step 6/7, get existing info from database if exists, to
tikiwiki: prefill fields with old values in case of an upgrade. Do not skip this step
tikiwiki: anymore in this case. This was a 3.0 blocker. + fix SSL preferences set by the
tikiwiki: installer (there was a typo in the feature name)

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CIA-46

tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18502 10/branches/3.0/ (6 files in 3 dirs): [FIX]calendar: option to have the list view to begin on the focus date or on the period first date + fix when list view since the focus date - to have effectively all the events of the period

[21:24]

marclaporte

tks Nyloth: this will save a lot of people a lot of time

[21:36]

Tikiwiki|bot

New Forum Posts: Module in wiki page full width - http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=32886

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Tikiwiki|bot

New Forum Posts: Can no longer login - http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=6&comments_parentId=32887

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nyloth

marclaporte: :)

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[22:14]

nyloth

marclaporte: I know that you don't like the "page has been saved..." message after saving a wiki page... but concretly, what is the real problem with it ? It is in the list of blockers, but addind an option for messages seems going too much deep in the optionality from my point of view. We already have a huge amount of options. What if we make optionnal every messages everywhere ? Honestly I don't understand right now what is bad with this message..

[22:16]

marclaporte

nyloth: : I think Gary put on list of blockers
some of the problems we had have been solved.
1 problem was in the stats/URLs
I think that may be solved since the URL is different, it counted as a different page for Google Analytics. CGCOM had mentioned this to me.

[22:17]

nyloth

marclaporte: yes, I saw it's gary, but he is not here and you had the same opinion.

[22:18]

marclaporte

[22:19]

nyloth

marclaporte: I remember the problem with URLs/bookmarks, but this is fixed nowadays, as you say.

[22:19]

marclaporte

second problem was in terms of themes. Since the themes were not adapted, it looked very ugly in some cases

[22:19]

sylvieg

I think the guys wanted the info in session to have a clena url
is it fixed?

[22:20]

nyloth

sylvieg: yes, it is fixed
sylvieg: since a long time now

[22:20]

sylvieg

I suppose I work on non svn up version sometimes - ok - thx

[22:22]

marclaporte

since themes are now ok and URL is nice, I am OK with this message

[22:22]

nyloth

marclaporte: ok, for you, is there a need to make it optional ? is the theme option still there ? For themes, honestly, I can't imagine that there is a real problem with a simple message at the top of the page when the whole HTML structure was changed in 2.x and 3.x .....
sylvieg: try on dev.tw.o , it's up-to-date, and see if it's ok for you

[22:22]

sylvieg

my local is ok

nyloth

marclaporte: ok, so I need to check with gary then

marclaporte

yup :-)

nyloth

marclaporte: I can make options, but I think it's crazy to have one option per message

sylvieg

I am asking sebastien

nyloth

marclaporte: thx for your answer ;)

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sylvieg

:-)

slordjette

Hello

nyloth

hi slordjette :)

slordjette

Hey nyloth

sylvieg

so slordjette - do you want an option for the save message?
or a clean url is enough
for me a clean url is enough

slordjette

I think so, too.

[22:25]

nyloth

great :)
ok, thanx, I suppose we will be able to remove it from blockers then...

[22:25]

slordjette

What would be a good use case for a message in the url ?
In my opinion, it just creates url in the stats...

[22:25]

nyloth

slordjette: yep. It's no more the case if you try a quite recent 3.0
slordjette: should already be ok for you on a recent code

[22:26]

slordjette

But what was the use of this "feature" in the first place ?
I has always bugged me from the day it was implemented... 2.0 I thnik.

[22:27]

sylvieg

do we reintroduce the jscalendar stuff (see devel)?
perhaps we can invite this guy to be in the team?

[22:32]

nyloth

slordjette: I coded it but I think pkdille will be able to answser this question more than me. Some users asked for it.

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[22:35]

sylvieg

nyloth is a slave ;-)
me too..

[22:35]

nyloth

slordjette: I suppose that when you make small changes in a big page, it's better for some users to have a message that garanties the save has worked, or something like that
sylvieg: sometimes :)

[22:35]

slordjette

Well, in that case, the message in the page is OK. But adding &save=y (if I remember well) in the URL is irrelevant.

nyloth

sylvieg: I would agree on jscalendar if it's not too much visible. The revamp tried to make a lighter UI which is usually better for users / more professional.
sylvieg: in which team ?
sylvieg: QT ?

sylvieg

tw devel

Tikiwiki|bot

Welcome to the official Tikiwiki English Irc Channel. TikiWiki or better known as TW, is your Groupware/CMS (Content Management System) solution, you can get more infomation at http://info.tikiwiki.org/ .