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[00:35] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r24058 10/trunk/lib/prefs/ (auth.php global.php): [ENH] Dynamic preference 1- make unchangeable per perspective 2 various minor fixes
[00:37] <marclaporte> indro : can you fix?
[00:38] <marclaporte> indro : fixing a translation is easy http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Commit
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[00:49] <indro> will do tomorrow, going to sleep now, gn8. ;)
[00:50] <marclaporte> super!  take care
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[04:19] <daniam> How do I edit a page that has no "Edit" button?
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[05:23] <chibaguy> Anyone else getting a white screen on trunk tiki-calendar.php?
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[05:31] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r24059 10/trunk/css/calendar.css: [FIX] Link styles should use standard properties rather than border-bottom to be covered by theme stylesheet overrides.
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[05:35] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r24060 10/mods/trunk/themes/abse_tiki_4/styles/abse.css: [FIX] Improvements on selectors and buttons, etc.
[05:49] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r24061 10/mods/trunk/themes/abse_tiki_4/styles/abse.css: [FIX] Improvements on selectors and buttons, etc.
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[07:02] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r24062 10/mods/trunk/themes/kubrick_tiki_4/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
[07:02] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: [ENH] Conversion of Kubrick theme to lite.css layout (tiki.tpl is clone of
[07:02] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: default but with a few shadowlayer divs hardcoded, topbar custom content moved
[07:02] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: to #middle, and powered-by div below div#main) as per original design.
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[07:51] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r24063 10/mods/trunk/themes/twist_tiki_4/ (24 files in 8 dirs): [NEW] Twist theme for Tiki 4. Uses *lite.css layout.
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[10:04] <Tikiwiki|bot>  New Forum Posts: Calendar button translation - http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=35772
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[10:44] <Tikiwiki|bot>  New Forum Posts: header already sent - http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=6&comments_parentId=35775
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[12:07] <Tikiwiki|bot>  New Forum Posts: How to get clean Category index like seen on tiki-browse_categories.php page? - http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=35776
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[13:37] <RavenC> hello all
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[13:48] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03lphuberdeau * r24064 10/trunk/templates/tiki.tpl: [MOD] Mozilla upstream. WAI-ARIA - something for content readers to identify main content in the page
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[14:04] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r24065 10/mods/trunk/themes/litejazz_tiki_4/ (36 files in 10 dirs): [NEW] LiteJazz theme for Tiki 4. Now uses *lite.css layout method, and red and green variations via theme options.
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[14:51] <Tikiwiki|bot>  New Forum Posts: Wisiwyg 4.1 : Save modifications of page ignored if you edit the same page several time ... - http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=35778
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[15:12] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03pkdille * r24066 10/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [MOD] lesser magic: dynamic preferences in admin textarea template
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[15:22] <svenstaro> Hey, I want to use tikiwiki in favor of mediawiki this time, I'm wondering wether if I only want a wiki I should still use it?
[15:22] <marclaporte> do you need multilingual?
[15:23] <svenstaro> No
[15:23] <svenstaro> I want to keep it english all the way
[15:24] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03lphuberdeau * r24067 10/trunk/ (6 files in 6 dirs): [MOD] Mozilla upstream. Allow to define required sets of categories and the fallback.
[15:28] <svenstaro> So...? :)
[15:32] <marclaporte> if your users are more used to MediaWiki...
[15:32] <svenstaro> Isn't everybody due to wikipedia? 
[15:33] <marclaporte> many times, it's all new users
[15:33] <svenstaro> I'm trying out tikiwiki and want to see if it's nicer to work with
[15:33] <svenstaro> It will be
[15:33] <marclaporte> svenstaro : well, I would love if you tested and gave feedback
[15:33] <svenstaro> Mh
[15:34] <marclaporte> I am not aware of any significant feature that MediaWiki has that Tiki doesn't
[15:34] <svenstaro> Well it is a bit of a major decision so I'd like to hear your opinion first. I don't know if switching wikis inbetween is an easy task
[15:34] <marclaporte> And UI of Tiki4 is quite nice
[15:34] <svenstaro> I'm not particualrly in favor of mediawiki but I heard some good things about tiki
[15:34] <svenstaro> Can I use Tiki as a wiki only?
[15:34] <marclaporte> yes, of course
[15:34] <svenstaro> I don't want all the other stuff
[15:35] <marclaporte> but it's when you need more that it shines
[15:35] <chibaguy> marclaporte: you wrote a comparison page, didn't you?
[15:35] <marclaporte> Do you want threaded comments?
[15:35] <svenstaro> Can I enable/diable features on the fly?
[15:35] <marclaporte> svenstaro : yup
[15:35] <svenstaro> Threaded comments on a wiki?
[15:35] <svenstaro> Well I guess it'd be nice
[15:35] <svenstaro> I 
[15:35] <marclaporte> yup, at the bottom of the page (instead of talk page)
[15:36] <marclaporte> I find talk pages a  bit messy
[15:36] <svenstaro> I'm more interested in the automatic content generation for indexes and that kind of stuff
[15:36] <svenstaro> It does that right
[15:36] <marclaporte> you mean like table of content?
[15:37] <svenstaro> No, mediawiki does that too. I mean an automatic listing and grepping of the description of a bunch of grouped pages
[15:37] <svenstaro> as in here http://www.jacmoe.dk/tiki/files/ogrewiki1.htm
[15:37] <marclaporte> http://tikiwiki.org/TikiWiki+vs+MediaWiki
[15:37] <svenstaro> oh dear
[15:38] <marclaporte> http://tikiwiki.org/Nobody+ever+got+fired+for+picking+MediaWiki
[15:39] <marclaporte> svenstaro : did you make that screencast?
[15:40] <svenstaro> No, I watched it :P
[15:41] <svenstaro> I think this is awesome http://test.ogitor.org/tiki/Tutorials
[15:41] <svenstaro> The boxes are made using an include only
[15:41] <svenstaro> and are automatically generated
[15:42] <svenstaro> or this http://test.ogitor.org/tiki/Basic+Tutorials
[15:42] <svenstaro> That is awesome imo :)
[15:42] <marclaporte> svenstaro  : will you need any structured data?
[15:42] <svenstaro> Yes
[15:43] <marclaporte> yeah, jacmoe was busy :-)
[15:43] <Tobbi> Hi, everyone. I'm currently working on an easy patch for https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=535316 What is the variable, the user language is stored in?
[15:43] <marclaporte> svenstaro   : please see http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Trackers
[15:44] <marclaporte> {prefs.language}
[15:44] <Tobbi> marclaporte: Okay, wait a moment.
[15:44] <marclaporte> svenstaro do you think you will have not just wiki projects down the road?
[15:45] <marclaporte> Tobbi : that is in Tiki3 and up (not sure about 1.10 that SUMO is using)
[15:45] <svenstaro> Well we use github as much as possible but as some point we might need more sophisticated issue tracking with git and svn integration
[15:46] <Tobbi> marclaporte: Okay.
[15:46] <marclaporte> svenstaro : we would like to improve Tiki integration with SVN as well (and perhaps GIT if we start using that one day)
[15:46] <Tobbi> marclaporte: I hope I can catch paulc or anyone else from sumodev, then.
[15:46] <svenstaro> So the tiki issue tracker does not support git in that way?
[15:46] <marclaporte> correct. Just vaporware for now http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Code+Review
[15:47] <svenstaro> :(
[15:47] <marclaporte> but would like to be closer to Trac for this
[15:47] <svenstaro> Then we'll probably use redmine for that
[15:47] <marclaporte> svenstaro : I'd like you to read one page
[15:48] <svenstaro> Does tiki do issues like flyspray?
[15:48] <marclaporte> http://tikiwiki.org/Model
[15:48] <marclaporte> yes, tiki has issue/bug tracker
[15:49] <svenstaro> I mean, how sophisticated is it? I really like clean interfaces rather than cluttered ones but sophisticated interfaces tend to get cluttered up.
[15:50] <svenstaro> To be quite honest, the tikiwikis I've seen till now all look somewhat cluttered. Why is there a shoutbox even on the tw.org page?
[15:50] <svenstaro> Also, latest changes are not relevant to most users I suppose
[15:50] <marclaporte> svenstaro : just don't activate features, and you'll avoid clutter
[15:52] <marclaporte> A reason Tiki sites are cluttered is that Tiki has so many features, and they are so easy to activate (flip a switch) that people tend to activate too many things
[15:52] <marclaporte> svenstaro: bug tracker is very powerful
[15:52] <marclaporte> svenstaro: again, you can keep simple by having less fields
[15:52] <svenstaro> Can you point me to one on a project not tw itself?
[15:53] <marclaporte> http://support.mozilla.com/
[15:53] <svenstaro> They use bugzilla though
[15:53] <marclaporte> http://tikiwiki.org/Nice+Sites
[15:53] <marclaporte> yes, that is for wiki & forums
[15:53] <svenstaro> Wait, I mean bugs, not a FAQ
[15:53] <marclaporte> ok
[15:56] <marclaporte> public stuff, nothing comes to mind (I have issue trackers)
[15:56] <marclaporte> but just look at http://dev.tikiwiki.org/
[15:57] <marclaporte> and imagine having less fields
[15:57] <marclaporte> our challenge is that we have a wishlist (for bugs and feature requests) with 100+ feature-categories
[15:57] <marclaporte> You can just configure with a few fields
[15:58] <marclaporte> do you have a live instance of Tiki?
[15:58] <svenstaro> Not yet
[15:58] <svenstaro> To be frank I got a little discouraged by all those 3 column pages with 400 pixels of content
[15:59] <marclaporte> http://demo.tikiwiki.org/4x/
[15:59] <marclaporte> yes, information overload!
[16:01] <svenstaro> Indeed
[16:02] <marclaporte> http://demo.tikiwiki.org/4x/tiki-index.php?page=Bug_Tracker  -> Tiki4 with OpenID and Bug_Tracker profile
[16:03] <marclaporte> http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Bug_Tracker
[16:04] <marclaporte> it really depends what you need
[16:05] <marclaporte> The more features/flexibility and integration, the more Tiki is a great choice :-)
[16:05] <svenstaro> So basically I need to do my own database model to create a bug tracker?
[16:06] <marclaporte> yes
[16:06] <marclaporte> or use a profile
[16:06] <marclaporte> it takes a few minutes to make
[16:07] <marclaporte> so you have the data model you want
[16:07] <marclaporte> instead of too few or too many fields
[16:08] <marclaporte> and you build your reports in wiki pages
[16:08] <marclaporte> a few minutes as well
[16:09] <marclaporte> http://demo.tikiwiki.org/4x/tiki-index.php?page=Bug_Tracker -> 10 minutes to make
[16:09] <svenstaro> Er wait, so if a user enters a bug he needs to type in YAML like the sample data?
[16:09] <marclaporte> svenstaro : did you get password in private message?
[16:10] <marclaporte> no!!!
[16:10] <svenstaro> Yes
[16:10] <marclaporte> YAML is for solution builders
[16:10] <marclaporte> say you want to deploy 50 bug trackers
[16:10] <marclaporte> end users fill in a form to report a bug
[16:11] <marclaporte> like here: http://demo.tikiwiki.org/4x/tiki-index.php?page=Bug_Tracker
[16:13] <marclaporte> to edit your field types: http://demo.tikiwiki.org/4x/tiki-admin_tracker_fields.php?trackerId=3
[16:13] <marclaporte> so it's a generic database builder, that we so happen to use as a bug/issue tracker
[16:16] <svenstaro> How can I eliminate the rightmost column from the admin?
[16:16] <marclaporte> admin -> modules -> remove all modules
[16:17] <svenstaro> How though? No module controls are shown
[16:18] <marclaporte> or admin -> look & feel -> general layout options -> Right column:
[16:19] <marclaporte> http://demo.tikiwiki.org/4x/tiki-admin_modules.php
[16:20] <svenstaro> well this looks much more acceptable
[16:20] <svenstaro> We have nice GD captchas right?
[16:20] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03lphuberdeau * r24068 10/trunk/ (templates/tiki-show_page.tpl tiki-editpage.php): [FIX] Mozilla upstream. Make sure staging copy exists.
[16:22] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03pkdille * r24069 10/trunk/templates/prefs/radio.tpl: [MOD] lesser magic: print name field to radio type prefs
[16:24] <svenstaro> Or do you? the current registration captcha is a joke on http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-register.php
[16:25] <svenstaro> Can I make it use recaptcha or similar?
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[17:14] <RavenC> Groupmail = mega awesome!  :)
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[17:46] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03lphuberdeau * r24070 10/trunk/ (11 files in 6 dirs): [NEW] Mozilla upstream. Wiki page keyword manager
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[17:55] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03lphuberdeau * r24071 10/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [MOD] Include keywords in the meta description
[18:10] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r24072 10/branches/experimental/lesser-magic/: [KIL] Lesser magic was merged long ago
[18:13] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r24073 10/branches/experimental/perms-take2/: [KIL] Perms revamp was merged long ago
[18:15] <SEWilco2> Yay!  Coding during the holidays!  :-)
[18:16] * SEWilco2 spent yesterday coding in a different project.
[18:20] <SEWilco2> (Well, at present it's an unrelated project - web chat program that I'll try to integrate with TW)
[18:21] <RavenC> fun!  :)
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[19:06] <ricks99> hi all :-)
[19:06] <RavenC> hiya rickss99
[19:07] * ricks99 was curious if anyone was around during the holidays...
[19:08] * marclaporte is around
[19:08] * marclaporte hopes to see ricks99 in NY
[19:08] <ricks99> hiya RavenC & marclaporte
[19:08] <ricks99> too cold :-) I've done my time in NY already
[19:09] * RavenC wishing I could be in NY !
[19:09] <ricks99> marc: ur tiki5 schedule looks ambitious - but good!
[19:10] <marclaporte> hehe
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[19:11] <marclaporte> ricks99 : we need to finish dynamic prefs absolutely before Tiki5, so we can have searchable prefs
[19:11] <marclaporte> In case you have some time
[19:12] <ricks99> i hope to have some free time next several weeks - want to work on getting docs up to date (many pages are still 2.x). will look @ dynamic prefs, too
[19:12] <marclaporte> Admin panels are so much easier to use now, but still too difficult without search
[19:12] <marclaporte> super!
[19:12] <ricks99> also trying to get the tikihelp/webhelp working
[19:12] <marclaporte> :-)
[19:12] * ricks99 really would love an easy tiki -> html mechanism
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[19:20] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03lphuberdeau * r24074 10/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): [MOD] Mozilla upstream. Restrict similar pages to those in the current language.
[19:29] <marclaporte> ricks99 : http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-plugins.php
[19:30] <ricks99> <sigh> y, a *BIG* problem with upgrades (imho)
[19:30] <marclaporte> I agree
[19:31] <marclaporte> the cost of security
[19:31] <ricks99> no, its bad design -- tiki should not 'unapprove' a plugin on upgrade
[19:31] <marclaporte> No public security issues on 3.x
[19:32] <marclaporte> it's superb design
[19:32] <marclaporte> considering the situation
[19:32] <marclaporte> we had to take into account an sub-ideal situation
[19:32] <marclaporte> parser needs re-writing
[19:32] <ricks99> i think it is bad to have tiki turn things off on an upgrade
[19:33] <ricks99> esp without telling the admin or providing an easy way to turn everything back on
[19:33] <marclaporte> yes, I agree
[19:33] <marclaporte> but it's because of limitations of Wiki Parser (among other things). We need a revamp: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Wiki+Parser
[19:33] <ricks99> i agree it is much more secure, but for upgrades it is a PITA
[19:34] <ricks99> should all the pendings on doc.tw.o be approved?
[19:34] <marclaporte> sure, why not? :-)
[19:35] <ricks99> dont know even how to check all the UNKNOWN locations....
[19:35] <ricks99> all approved...
[19:35] <ricks99> and nothing blew up!
[19:35] <marclaporte> :-)
[19:35] <marclaporte> unknown could be usage in forum
[19:36] <marclaporte> what we would need is a crawler which visits each page
[19:36] * RavenC having a blast messing with strasa
[19:36] <marclaporte> and thus, creates all the signatures, then, we mass approve
[19:37] <ricks99> UNKOWN could b anywhere (xcept a wiki page)
[19:37] * marclaporte thinks a robot to do link checking would be good too
[19:41] <ricks99> bbl
[19:53] <Tikiwiki|bot>  New Forum Posts: Error when viewing trackers after upgrade to 3.3 - http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=35782
[20:03] <Tikiwiki|bot>  New Forum Posts: Traduzione testo nei bottoni - http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=8&comments_parentId=35784
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[20:18] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03pkdille * r24075 10/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [MOD] lesser magic: deploying dynamic preferences to admin community template
[20:23] <Tikiwiki|bot>  New Forum Posts: Search Engine Optimization - http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=35786
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[20:32] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03lphuberdeau * r24076 10/trunk/ (12 files in 3 dirs): [FIX] Thank you for breaking the installer.
[20:54] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r24077 10/trunk/doc/devtools/release.php: [FIX] Update release docs
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[21:09] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03lphuberdeau * r24078 10/trunk/ (7 files in 7 dirs): [MOD] Mozilla upstream. Allow to synchronize categories of objects in different languages.
[21:13] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03lphuberdeau * r24079 10/trunk/ (lib/categories/categlib.php tiki-approve_staging_page.php): [MOD] Remove unused code
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[21:42] <RavenC> ricks99:  a double thanks for the great site.  Now that I have a functional site, your guide has been a blessing!  :)
[21:43] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03pkdille * r24080 10/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): [MOD] lesser magic: deploying dynamic preferences to admin calendar template
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[22:03] <SEWilco2> The IRC log is a good way to have Google get some kind of results on almost anything when searching site:tikiwiki.org   :-)
[22:04] <marclaporte> :-)
[22:08] <marclaporte> would be nice to have google site search shown if tikiwiki.org search shows little or no results
[22:09] <marclaporte> (or always)
[22:09] <marclaporte> since we'll never have good search throughout all *.tikiwiki.org sites
[22:10] <marclaporte> InterTiki search is very unlilely
[22:10] <marclaporte> unliley
[22:10] <marclaporte> oups
[22:10] <marclaporte> unlikely
[22:10] <marclaporte> :-)
[22:27] <SEWilco2> marclaporte: Maybe the InterTiki interface should have hooks for pseudosites, which actually invoke an external search engine.
[22:28] <SEWilco2> pseudosites... I think there's an ointment for that.
[22:29] <SEWilco2> Or else add search.tikiwiki.org, an open InterTiki search site which actually invokes an external search of the referrer's site.
[22:29] <SEWilco2> ... and the search engine used will be the one which pays TW the most.  :-)
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[22:34] <SEWilco2> ... or allow search.TW.O results to display ads which pay for TW.O.
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[23:14] <CIA-63> tikiwiki: 03pkdille * r24081 10/trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): [MOD] lesser magic: some work in admin rss template
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