#tikiwiki 2010-10-26,Tue

(Click on time to select a line by its url)

Who	What	When
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fabricius	Polom how is everybody? no question, just here to say hello ;-)	[00:25]
luciash	hi fabricius	[00:26]
fabricius	hi luciash	[00:26]
CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r30300 10/branches/6.x/templates/header.tpl: [FIX] strip leading and trailing whitespace from browser title	[00:30]
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daniam	Hello world!	[00:35]
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CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r30301 10/branches/6.x/styles/layout/ (fixed_width.css layout.css): [FIX] final solution (hopefully) to the fixed width and "display: table" issue - tested in Chrome, Firefox, Safari so far (TODO: remove the now obsolete fixed_width.css file to save two HTTP requests ;))	[01:04]
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CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r30302 10/branches/6.x/styles/lite/lite.css: [ENH] *lite CSS update - only some handy comments were added/modified and updated the contact info	[02:01]
fabricius	n8, bye c ya	[02:02]
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CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03nkoth * r30303 10/branches/6.x/lib/profilelib/installlib.php: [FIX] pages created using profiles cannot be used in wysiwyg previously because settings were wrong. This corrects it by allowing setting a flag to have content be wysiwyg.	[02:18]
	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r30304 10/branches/6.x/templates/header.tpl: [FIX] use choices separator for browser title from admin > look and feel > misc instead of hardcoded colon	[02:24]
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chealer	luciash: I'm able to be "remembered" on dev.tiki.org several times in a row (tried 2). luciash: do you remember which sub-domain we saw the issue on?	[04:16]
luciash	chealer: maybe community ? i am logged on dev too	[04:18]
chealer	luciash: OK, I'm trying community	[04:21]
CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r30305 10/branches/6.x/styles/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [FIX] fivealive theme: seamless background for the header	[04:30]
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Tikiwiki\|bot	New Forum Posts: Users Profiles - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=39166	[04:54]
chealer	luciash: hum, looks like other people have noticed too: "lun. 04 oct. 2010: Cookie issue? I'm finding I have to keep logging in here over and over. Also when going to other areas like docs." from tiki.org shoutbox good night	[04:56]
coaboa_	good morning ;-)	[05:06]
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jonnyb	polom people	[09:49]
changi	jonnyb: hi	[09:58]
jonnyb	hi changi - how are you?	[09:59]
Tikiwiki\|bot	New Forum Posts: Bengali language needed - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=13&comments_parentId=39168	[10:09]
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chibaguy	polom	[10:12]
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jonnyb	hi chibaguy how's 6.x looking from a css point of view - it was very broken yesterday (for me)	[10:20]
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chibaguy	hi jonnyb do you mean after my commits, or after luci's?	[10:23]
jonnyb	after luciash's changes - changing your changes	[10:24]
chibaguy	oh really?	[10:24]
jonnyb	both firefox and safari on mac were almost unusable with html {display:table}	[10:24]
chibaguy	my localhost seems ok. but then it was ok after my commits (very tolerant installation apparently).	[10:24]
jonnyb	i sent a link to a screenshot	[10:24]
chibaguy	isn't html {display:table} rolled back now? I thought luciash rolled it back.	[10:25]
jonnyb	think so, still catching up with emails etc	[10:25]
chibaguy	I believe display:table is on div#fixedwidth now, in layout.css.	[10:26]
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jonnyb	yup, as was - but wasn't that breaking fivealive header?	[10:26]
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chibaguy	apparently luciash made a change in fivealive.css to prevent it breaking. I didn't look at the file yet.	[10:32]
jonnyb	yes, i just read the diff - looks like he reorganised the fixed width stuff, which didn't seem broken to me i'm not sure people want 6.0 to come out so soon...	[10:33]
chibaguy	Hmm, I don't see any change by him in fivealive.css that would affect the header background, so am not sure what was breaking it before. I think it would be good to not rush the release. Seems like we routinely have x.0 releases that are close to unusable for one reason or another.	[10:35]
jonnyb	indeed - we just need to adjust the schedule (6.1 is due on 12th nov, i think) chibaguy: pm?	[10:36]
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ricks99	hi all :-)	[11:16]
chibaguy	hi ricks99	[11:19]
jonnyb	hi ricks99	[11:20]
ricks99	hi jonnyb & chibaguy	[11:21]
chibaguy	ricks99, I was just looking at your email about changing the text of the registration page.	[11:29]
ricks99	ricks99 wishes we could exteranalize all text strings	[11:30]
chibaguy	The meaning is essentially as before except for the addition of the domain name, it seems.	[11:30]
ricks99	agreed. my goal is not to change meaning. but to improve/correct the "English-ness" of the text	[11:30]
chibaguy	I'm a little leery about breaking the string into two parts for separate translations. I think not every language has that construction necessarily.	[11:31]
ricks99	you're probably right... and I don't know how to handle that. but, from a user perspective, let's explicity state what the domain/email that they need to "whitelist" is... much easier to understand than "whitelist this domain"	[11:32]
chibaguy	Could it be: {tr}If you use an email filter, be sure to add this domain to your accepted list:{/tr} {$prefs.sender_email}. (just to keep all the translation part in one continuous piece)	[11:33]
ricks99	y, but for an English construct, the pronoun "this" is too far separated from its nominalization (the actual domain name	[11:34]
chibaguy	Even with the colon?	[11:34]
ricks99	y. that breaks it even worse :(	[11:35]
chibaguy	hmm, I thought people knew what a sentence with this and ending with a colon means.	[11:35]
ricks99	hence my desire to have all strings exteranalized, so we dont encounter this issue	[11:35]
chibaguy	how do you mean "externalized"?	[11:36]
ricks99	replace the "text" in the TPLs with varialble, ie: %1% then have a simple lang-specific lookup table that says:	[11:36]
jonnyb	i'm just investigating this very point	[11:37]
ricks99	%1% = My text thats what we do in java all the time to make translations easy	[11:37]
jonnyb	i'm sure there's a way now of putting placeholders in {tr} text - i think it uses %0 syntax	[11:37]
chibaguy	oh, so every string gets translated, and no english in the tpls at all, eh?	[11:37]
ricks99	y. the downside, obvoiusly, is that the native TPLs themsleves become less readable. im just saying.... right now we treat English as the "master" language, but the vast majority of tiki dev team does not speak english as a native speaker maybe its just me :-) but i cringe when i see an expression like "canned by your email filer"	[11:38]
jonnyb	externalising all language strings is unlikely to happen for tiki - about as likely as us adopting an object oriented MVC model... :) i agree ricks99 let me finish this reply to your mail...	[11:39]
ricks99	i disagree... in essense we already have exteranalied strngs	[11:40]
chibaguy	yes, there's a lot of coder's jargon in Tiki's interface.	[11:40]
ricks99	i could, concieable, make my edits in the lang/en/lang.php file	[11:40]
jonnyb	i mean not having English in the tpls	[11:40]
ricks99	y my goal is to improve the english nterface without breaking any of the tranlsations. just want to find the easiest/best way	[11:40]
jonnyb	no, we all need good English as the base "layer" - that string in particular is terrible but if the "original" English is bad surely the translations will be bad too? (so will need fixing)	[11:41]
ricks99	so, if i use the interactive translation for ENGLISH, will it automaitcally update all the other langauge files?	[11:42]
jonnyb	no	[11:42]
ricks99	:(	[11:42]
jonnyb	the text in the code needs to be improved	[11:42]
chibaguy	I edit the instances in the tpl(s) and all instances in the language files, when I 'improve' an english string.	[11:42]
ricks99	is that a manual process? do u grep all the langague files?	[11:43]
chibaguy	yes, manual.	[11:44]
ricks99	yuck. how much work to improve the interactive-translation feature to push changes from english to other langs? ricks99 is too lazy :(	[11:44]
chibaguy	Well, I don't think the strings need to be changed often, but of course getting them all to best form is a bigger project. I don't mind the manual work actually. Kind of therapeutic after struggling with other problems. ;-)	[11:45]
ricks99	seems to me that it shouldnt be too hard to update the interactive translation process:	[11:46]
chibaguy	obvious method and predictable results. :-)	[11:46]
ricks99	1. if making a change to EN text, then also update the EN source in all other lang files?	[11:46]
chibaguy	I haven't tried the interactive method, though I had a look at SUMO's when working on their site.	[11:47]
ricks99	maybe this is question for tiki 7?	[11:47]
chibaguy	Probably	[11:47]
jonnyb	so if i change this registration text to what ricks99 suggests (almost) should i change all the lang files? (i thought they got updated by a script)	[11:47]
chibaguy	jonnyb, I don't know about that. I just have updated them myself.	[11:48]
ricks99	i don't think there's a script	[11:48]
jonnyb	what does get_strings do then?	[11:48]
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chibaguy	it just finds and lists translation strings in the files, as far as I know.	[11:49]
jonnyb	isn't that what we're talking about?	[11:49]
ricks99	but it wont find in EN and then replace in othres	[11:50]
jonnyb	how do translators know then, if you've changed the text in the tpl, but done a replace already in their language file? how can they tell that the English has changed?	[11:51]
chibaguy	They don't. ;-)	[11:51]
ricks99	unless i'm changing the meaning, thranslators shouldnt care that i've changed the EN and i shouldnt be changing the meaning unless the actual function/feature has changed	[11:51]
jonnyb	does your suggestion change the meaning ricks99?	[11:51]
ricks99	no it is essentially the same thing: please whitelist this domain	[11:52]
sylvieg	but a translator must need the string change because perhaps the translation is bad if the first wording was bad	[11:52]
ricks99	i've made it much cleaner and better (imho) but no change in meaning	[11:52]
jonnyb	i don't think so, but it changes the _feeling_ and quality of the string, so i think it should be re-translated exactly what i thought sylvieg	[11:52]
ricks99	need to add a 'status' or translation dashboard	[11:53]
jonnyb	so don't change the lang files?	[11:53]
sylvieg	I think the best is to send on a special list or page or ... all the strings that changed, change the en string in the language file translators will adapt if needed	[11:53]
ricks99	seems like quite a manual process... :(	[11:54]
sylvieg	my 2 cents...	[11:54]
chibaguy	it would be good to have a record of updates, for sure.	[11:54]
sylvieg	?? you can automatically change all the en strings in the language.php files	[11:54]
chibaguy	I've assumed translators could understand the intension of the (maybe not so good) English, and then do their best translation.	[11:55]
ricks99	"01 you can automatically change all the en strings in the language.php files" this was the question. How?	[11:55]
chibaguy	Obviously if the original meaning isn't clear, then the translation won't be good.	[11:55]
sylvieg	a sed or a script .. if you put the list somewhere I can do it	[11:56]
jonnyb	ricks99: committing the change you suggested so we can discuss what to do next... (or rollback if really necessary)	[11:56]
CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r30306 10/branches/6.x/templates/tiki-register.tpl: [DOC] register: Much better language for "whilelist this domain" text - thanks ricks99	[11:56]
jonnyb	i fixed the way the pref is inserted into the sentance	[11:56]
ricks99	@sylvieg: how hard to incoroparte the script into the intraceve trnslation process @jonnyb: fine, but now the highly visible/high profile page is broken in every other language :(	[11:57]
jonnyb	sylvieg: that string was not found in the lang/en file - what does that mean? it was only found in ca, cn, fi, fr, pt-br and sl	[11:57]
chibaguy	the string in the registration tpl should have remained in one piece, I think.	[11:58]
jonnyb	so was already broken in the majority of languages how do you mean chibaguy ?	[11:58]
chibaguy	did you put the variable in the middle?	[11:59]
jonnyb	as %0	[11:59]
ricks99	@chibaguy: we need to balance ease of translation vs readability	[11:59]
jonnyb	{tr 0=$prefs.sender_email\|default:"{tr}this domain{/tr}"}If you use an email filter, be sure to add %0 to your accepted list{/tr}	[11:59]
chibaguy	I see.	[12:00]
sylvieg	this domain will be very hard to translate	[12:01]
jonnyb	as presumably the variable bit could end up almost anywhere in other langs (and also it was less meaningful as two separate clauses)	[12:01]
sylvieg	because translation can depnd on the syntaxic role	[12:01]
jonnyb	but better than splitting the sentance, no? (sentence)	[12:02]
sylvieg	(ex: lation nominatif and accusatif are not the same domino and dominum... no idea about the translation but it is the idea so if I have a this domain do I use a nominatif or an accusatif?	[12:02]
jonnyb	hmmm, how should we do that then?	[12:02]
sylvieg	in this case it is an accusatif or whatever youhave the idea	[12:02]
jonnyb	becasue it's really good to have the email address in the string, i think	[12:03]
chibaguy	how does other software handle this kind of thing?	[12:03]
ricks99	ricks99 again wishes for extrnalized strings	[12:03]
jonnyb	so best to set your $prefs.sender_email :)	[12:03]
sylvieg	better to do }If you use an email filter, be sure to add this domain (%0) to your accepted list	[12:03]
chibaguy	ricks99, won't there still be the problem of what to put in the tpl, even with externalized strings?	[12:04]
sylvieg	%0 must be only a constant	[12:04]
chibaguy	can't assume an english sentence construction.	[12:04]
ricks99	@chibaguy: no, the text woudnt be in the tpl	[12:04]
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jonnyb	anyway - i jumped on it as i almost lost a tiki client because of that "canned by spam filter" line - it was almost the last straw for them	[12:05]
ricks99	@sylvieg: the issue is that "this domain' may be too technical for some users. why use it at all (unless needed). besides, it isn't the "domain" that they need to add -- it is the sender email address	[12:06]
chibaguy	I know: no text. but there's still placeholders to replace with text, and how they are arranged with something like a variable should be language-transparent. language-neutral. or have the ability to be language-neutral.	[12:06]
sylvieg	@ ricks99: so perhaps 2 string if prefs non empty ... other soemthing with domain	[12:07]
jonnyb	i suppose if sender_email is not set they don't have to bother with their filter setting, because they won't get an email in the first place...	[12:07]
sylvieg	:-) so get rid of this domain	[12:07]
ricks99	@jonnyb: i thought if using smtp instead, it is possible to have sender email empty, as the overrides in smpt config will b used instead? separate issue.	[12:08]
jonnyb	i don't think emails can be sent without a sender of some sort	[12:08]
sylvieg	ricks99: is right the mail setting can fix the empty sender	[12:08]
ricks99	anyway, my big thing is, i want to help iimpvoe the EN text -- this is a big (IMHO) LOSSING point when comparing tiki vs drupal/joomla/wordpress/etc tiki comes across as a much less 'professional' application (no offense intended to anyone) i think that improvng the default interface text will help as per jonnybs email	[12:09]
chibaguy	If you add to the dev.t.o page about strings to replace, it can be done (even if manually) When I get my editor cranked up and the files in ram, it goes pretty fast.	[12:10]
ricks99	will it be like adding a wishlist tracker? kinda cross my fingers and hope that someone addresses it? ;-)	[12:10]
sylvieg	ricks99: I agree - it is only to have a way to warn the translators	[12:10]
chibaguy	Well, it is _a_ way that works now, not to suggest there couldn't/shouldn't be a better way in the future.	[12:11]
jonnyb	but i don't think we should leave terrible language in there for fear of spoiling something else - it really makes us look bad also, i more or less intentionally put less than optimum English in there, as i think my time is better spent coding and hope others will improve the copywriting	[12:12]
ricks99	so is the consensous that it is ok to change/improve EN in TPLs, even if it breaks other langs, as long as we list the changes on dev.t.o	[12:13]
sylvieg	yes only if en strings are changed in language.php a tracker/mailing list .. whatever collect the change	[12:14]
ricks99	is there a proposed 6.x branch? or still ok to commit directly to 6.x? or only in trunk (and then backport)	[12:14]
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jonnyb	proposed 6 will happen after 6.1	[12:14]
chibaguy	language changes are supposed to be 'safe' for direct commit, I thought.	[12:14]
jonnyb	hopefully merges will hold up until then...	[12:14]
ricks99	@chibaguy: y, safe for the TPL, but again, i dont want to "untranslate" other languages	[12:15]
jonnyb	chibaguy: (finally) looks like luciash's css changes fix the troubles for me - looking ok to you?	[12:15]
chibaguy	I think the assumption was the intended meaning would be the same, just the wording improved. Yes, jonnyb, it looks ok to me now.	[12:15]
jonnyb	gg	[12:16]
chibaguy	I checked in ie.	[12:16]
sylvieg	rick can you do a sed? or can you commit a en/custom.php - that I will regularly empty to propagate to language.php	[12:17]
ricks99	what is a "sed"? remember, rick is a windoze user	[12:17]
JoernOtt	hehe ricks, sed is a nightmare for mouse-fanatics: sed is short for stream editor, used for text processing via commandline using regexp	[12:20]
sylvieg	I think Jyhem has a tool	[12:20]
ricks99	ricks99 thought "sed" was the past-tense for "say"	[12:20]
JoernOtt	a friend of mine said, why start windows and use word when you have a console, vi, awk and sed	[12:21]
ricks99	will it be easier if i start going through the current en lang.php file, and make changes there? ricks99 misses his wang dumb terminal who needs outlook when you have pine :-)	[12:21]
chibaguy	yes, Jyhem has a script for making the string changes.	[12:22]
JoernOtt	basically you can change a text to another text in all files in a directory with only one line, so you would not break translations because you would change also the "source" in the translations to your new text. (Hoping of course that the translators did a good job in finding the right words before)	[12:23]
chibaguy	JoernOtt: that's how I've done the string changes, but using an editor to find and replace. Anyway, having a record of the changes would be good, for translators to see.	[12:25]
JoernOtt	but opening all 1000+ files of tiki takes some time in the mouse world	[12:26]
chibaguy	I don't open them, the editor finds and changes unopened files.	[12:27]
JoernOtt	which one do you use?	[12:27]
chibaguy	(cough cough) dreamweaver	[12:27]
jonnyb	eclipse/aptana does it too, for those with mice and colour etc	[12:28]
ricks99	+1 eclipse	[12:28]
jonnyb	searches all tike files in a few seconds tike/tiki of course :)	[12:28]
chibaguy	not tyke?	[12:28]
JoernOtt	well, my eclipse (on windoze and gentoo) whines a lot about validation errors when working with tiki	[12:32]
jonnyb	yes, it doesn't really like smarty files js is all jslint'ed now php should be valid too (generally?)	[12:33]
JoernOtt	sadly the smarty plugin has not been developed over years now so its quite useless/unstable	[12:33]
jonnyb	also is dependant on zend's debugger (which i've never got working)	[12:35]
ricks99	completely new question: is it possible to limit a search scope to a specfici tracker? that is, return results only from tracker id=1	[12:37]
jonnyb	don't think so ricks99 - but a good idea for the new search for 7	[12:45]
ricks99	:( tx	[12:49]
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Tikiwiki\|bot	New Forum Posts: print button - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=39169	[13:03]
changi	jonnyb: fine and you :)	[13:05]
jonnyb	:)	[13:05]
changi	when is the next release planned ?	[13:06]
jonnyb	well, it depends if we're really moving back out of "freeze" mode... i think there have been quite a lot of biggish changes since beta 2 - i think we need beta 3 - what do you think?	[13:07]
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ricks99	+1 for beta 3	[13:15]
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chealer	polom	[13:16]
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chibaguy	hi chealer	[13:19]
chealer	hi chibaguy luciash: I'm still logged in to tiki.org (community, second session renewal)	[13:19]
CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03sampaioprimo * r30307 10/branches/6.x/lib/tikilib.php: [bp/r30279][FIX] wrong variable name when calling $tikilib->object_post_save() on $tikilib->create_page()	[13:31]
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Kimberlee	hello all.	[13:41]
jonnyb	hi Kimberlee	[13:43]
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jonnyb	bye all - out to meet some robots (really)	[13:59]
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ricks99	hm.... {maketoc showhide="y"} doesnt seem to be working for me in tiki 6....	[14:03]
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lphuberdeau	I consider that being able to parse the plugins on doc.tiki.org to be one hell of a test for a plugin parser, and it succeeded	[14:19]
luciash	polom	[14:20]
coaboa	hi all	[14:21]
lphuberdeau	good morning	[14:21]
luciash	hi coaboa, lphuberdeau et all	[14:22]
coaboa	smal usability thing: when deleting a menu item a warning with confimation step appears. This is not the case when selecting multiple entries and click on the red cross behind "Perform action with checked"	[14:23]
luciash	yea coaboa: feel free to fix that small thing :)	[14:24]
lphuberdeau	one of those many UIs that need to be brought into the 21st century	[14:25]
coaboa	if i could i would ;-)	[14:25]
luciash	coaboa: it sounds like it requires only some copy-pasting skills, nope ?	[14:26]
coaboa	probably yes. ok I'll try it	[14:26]
lphuberdeau	not quite, I think that's related to tickets	[14:26]
luciash	lphuberdeau: maybe true; the first one is link and the second one is form submit ?	[14:27]
lphuberdeau	that would be my guess	[14:27]
luciash	but lets coaboa give it a try ;) maybe he will improve his skills and learn some new ;)	[14:28]
coaboa	;-)	[14:30]
luciash	luciash goes to scroll back and read the irc log	[14:36]
ricks99	Q: how do i tell trackerfilter to display the results on a separate page?	[14:43]
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ricks99	^^ not possible with trackerfilter?	[14:54]
...... (idle for 27mn)
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chealer	polom	[15:21]
luciash	hi	[15:22]
Kimberlee	hiya :-)	[15:35]
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luciash	hi Kim :)	[15:46]
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Kimberlee	how is it going luci?	[15:54]
......... (idle for 40mn)
MacLeod	Reading doc.t.o, it looks like for WebDAV to work, all users who need to be able to save via WebDAV have to be given the permission admin_file_galleries... correct?	[16:34]
CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r30309 10/branches/6.x/templates/tiki-article_types.tpl: better clarify that author rating and user rating are two different things tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r30310 10/branches/6.x/templates/modules/mod-trackerhelp.tpl: [FIX]TRACKERHELP: better strings	[16:40]
ricks99	any help for my 01trackerfilter Q ^^ 01Q: how do i tell trackerfilter to display the results on a separate page?	[16:42]
CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r30311 10/branches/6.x/templates/ (tiki-edit_article.tpl tiki-edit_submission.tpl): better clarify that author rating and user rating are two different things tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r30312 10/branches/6.x/lib/prefs/art.php: better clarify that author rating and user rating are two different things tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r30313 10/trunk/ (16 files in 10 dirs): [MRG] Automatic merge, branches/6.x 30291 to 30312	[16:48]
MacLeod	Anyone know of any settings or combinations of settings (other than what's in doc.t.o for this topic) that will prevent WebDAV from working with IE7 and FF?	[17:01]
ricks99	saw something a whlie back that httpS was not supported	[17:01]
MacLeod	We're seeing a failure mode with v6.x where edits aren't being saved, and we're getting permission errors. @ricks99: We're using https, but I think LPH said that was resolved.	[17:01]
ricks99	ah. k then.	[17:02]
luciash	Kimberlee: fine, thanks (was afk at dinner here, sorry)	[17:03]
CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r30314 10/branches/6.x/templates/tiki-admin_include_rating.tpl: [DOC] add relevant rating options in admin panel	[17:04]
Kimberlee	MacLeod: sorry, no. I got it working but not consistently between machines, although I have not seen unsaved edits. Yikes. luci: :-)	[17:07]
MacLeod	@Kimberlee: The unsaved edits may not be immediately apparent, either. On one workstation, it seemed to work - the same user re-opened the file from the gallery and the edits were there. However, when I opened the same file from the gallery from my workstation, the edits were missing. The other user was just seeing his local copy on the second "download".	[17:10]
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luciash	wb jb jonnyb: presumably you didn't see the problem gary was trying to fix (and i did fix later), because you had fixed width feature on (just for your curiousness)	[17:19]
jonnyb	hi luciash - tried both i thought (i usually don't use fixed width due to it being annoying)	[17:21]
luciash	jonnyb: as fivealive is always (designed as) fixed width, it maybe wasn't obvious to spot... but now, all should be fine i think at least i tested all the other themes and it seems to work nicely good that gary tested ie too jonnyb: fixed the visible join in the header btw ;)	[17:22]
jonnyb	hmmm? i thought i could still see a join (when not fixed width)	[17:26]
luciash	jonnyb: i have little issue now for you - on dev.t.o there is the ajax preview enabled and there is one problem i spotted there with it - the links in the preview are not active so i cannot expand collapsed sections or check if the links are pointing to the right place	[17:27]
jonnyb	sorry, cannot be done - no JS in that preview (this month anyway) things like the sharethis and googlemap plugins go completely mad and explode the whole thing - same for {jq} stuff... i did notice on dev though that when the preview's open the save button is obscured by the custom footer stuff...	[17:29]
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luciash	re i'm sorry, vladi accidentaly restarted my router :-p jonnyb: so no clickable links in the preview ? usability issue i think... it would be at least nice if the collapsed sections were expanded at least jonnyb: i was unable to preview my changes in the Regression Bugs (fixed) section jonnyb: on Tiki6 page	[17:33]
jonnyb	yes, also noticed that there (i added it ;) ) it might be possible to loosen the filters for that to let "that kind of thing" through...	[17:38]
luciash	ah, those yummy filters	[17:41]
jonnyb	it's a series of regexps somewhere (i forget where at the moment)	[17:41]
luciash	jonnyb: btw, you have to refresh your browser images cache to see the header image updated where do i get the korean flag from ? we're missing it in the switch language module or maybe i just make it a button link for now no worries	[17:42]
ricks99	which korea?	[17:44]
jonnyb	wikipedia/media have them i think	[17:44]
ricks99	i see both (north and south) in img/flags	[17:44]
luciash	hehe, that's a question i prefer the non-totalitarian one yea, fixing that right now it was misunderstanding in the flagmapping.php	[17:46]
ricks99	ricks99 has always thought that using flags as symbols for language is a mistake	[17:46]
luciash	mistake, but so common, that people often request it for their websites	[17:47]
ricks99	good way to piss off your visitors	[17:47]
luciash	yup yup	[17:48]
ricks99	but... if that's what they want. :-) is there any way to use trackerlist plugin so that the results of the filter/search are shown on a separate/different page?	[17:48]
jonnyb	luciash: i still see a join (colour difference) between headertile.png and siteheader.jpg (on r30314)	[17:49]
luciash	ricks99: no idea jonnyb: no way :)	[17:49]
jonnyb	way!	[17:50]
luciash	jonnyb: i don't see it ! screenie ?	[17:50]
jonnyb	coming http://img.skitch.com/20101026-8ybbuag7d12i6gwnw41c33rbek.jpg jonnyb likes skitch	[17:50]
luciash	jonnyb: you got some different headertile.png than me	[17:53]
jonnyb	hmm, thought so - but flushed browser cache (twice) ah, might be the option - styles/fivealive/options/blueberry/headertile.png	[17:53]
luciash	hmm, what can it be ? hmm, yes, that one i cahnged changed	[17:54]
jonnyb	that's with option "None" - the others all look ok so far	[17:55]
luciash	4.5 kB (4,624 Bytes)	[17:55]
CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r30315 10/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [MOD]TRACKERHELP: autoquery on tracker names	[17:56]
luciash	jonnyb: can it be that your system has different bit depth and displays the colors of the png differently ?	[17:57]
jonnyb	it does look different on each monitor - worst on the HP one (slighter, but still visible difference on the Apple one)	[17:58]
luciash	it looks ok on my two displays that's weird issue	[17:58]
jonnyb	the dropper says the tile is #42A4DB and the header (right hand edge) is #00A8DB	[18:00]
luciash	i'll check	[18:00]
jonnyb	maybe saved with different colour-space thing? (what ever they're called)	[18:00]
luciash	dropper says: #28a7de for headertile.png	[18:01]
jonnyb	ah yes, the tile uses sRGB IEC61966-2.1 colorsync - the other bit doesn't so it depends what app you use to view it as to what colour it comes out as (i always switch that off) also one's a png and the other jpg - might affect it?	[18:02]
luciash	dropper says: #27a6dd for the JPG one right edge	[18:03]
jonnyb	(bet no one else cares ;) ) maybe different on a mac (in safari)	[18:03]
luciash	strange, i saved both from same editor (GIMP) jonnyb: are you sure your images are not cached ?	[18:04]
jonnyb	same in Fx sure as i can be...	[18:04]
luciash	strange why it gives different results in dropper picks, that'đ mystery to me i can try save both as png	[18:05]
jonnyb	yup - both browser caches cleared and svn double checked (r30305 on both images) it's the colorsync setting in the tile, i reckon	[18:06]
luciash	must be the Apple ;) ok how to get rid of it ?	[18:07]
jonnyb	get rid of that (just good ole RGB) and it'll probably be right	[18:07]
luciash	can you ? i have no idea how	[18:07]
jonnyb	should be an option in the original file (is there one?)	[18:07]
luciash	let me go through GIMP what original file ? i just modified the JPG and cutted 1x400 px from it and then stretched horizontally and saved as headertile.png	[18:07]
jonnyb	hmm, must have been a default when you made the new image (if so good to get rid if it, imho unless you mainly do print)	[18:09]
luciash	Color space: RGB (says GIMP) for that PNG no sRGB ah, sorry, it is color profile, ok, now i see it sRGB built-in Default RGB working space but it says the same for the JPG file ! :o	[18:10]
jonnyb	maybe jpg doesn't support saving the profile?	[18:12]
luciash	ah, hmm	[18:15]
jonnyb	hey, i can live with it (mind you, you know Mac users! :) ) i'll try in photoshop locally	[18:15]
luciash	can you switch that off in the PNG one ?	[18:16]
jonnyb	i'll try	[18:16]
luciash	or otherwise we need to convert the JPG one to PNG and update fivealive.css but it looks ugly, really (not here but on your screenie ;)	[18:16]
jonnyb	yes, i think i can - i have a "don't color manage this document"	[18:17]
luciash	i know you can live with that but i can't :D	[18:17]
jonnyb	yup - fixed	[18:17]
luciash	good to know that anway, thank you will have to take care next time using two different image types for design	[18:17]
jonnyb	of course photoshop makes it 53k unless you tell it not too (in which case it's less than 8k)	[18:19]
luciash	i didn't create fivealive theme though (i would probably use same type image anyway)	[18:19]
jonnyb	good - incoming...	[18:19]
luciash	jonnyb: i wonder when you commit that if it will change at my side then ;)	[18:19]
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jonnyb	let's hope not...	[18:20]
luciash	g	[18:20]
jonnyb	interesting though...	[18:21]
CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r30316 10/branches/6.x/styles/fivealive/options/blueberry/headertile.png: [FIX] fivealive: Remove sRGB colour profile from PNG file (makes it a different colour on a Mac screen)	[18:21]
luciash	jonnyb: perfect, looks good so far i tested :)	[18:25]
jonnyb	spot on here too - everybody happy :) looking at the showhide headings thing preview now - is there really nothing worse needing fixing in 6.x?	[18:26]
MacLeod	Hm, tiki-browse_freetags.php doesn't respect the category jail in v6.x.	[18:27]
luciash	ricks99: i am about to commit change to flagmapping; what do u think is better, south_korea flag or none (will display a button link instead in the switch lang module) for the korean language ? jonnyb: FADE plugin jonnyb: colorbox ?	[18:28]
MacLeod	At least the standard (non-freetag) search results adhere to the perspective.	[18:29]
luciash	jonnyb: can u preview if it's working ?	[18:29]
jonnyb	what colorbox?	[18:29]
luciash	jonnyb: i would really prefer if the links worked as normal in the preview	[18:30]
jonnyb	i odn;t think any of them will survive being in the ajax "scope"	[18:30]
luciash	jonnyb: so one could click them and see if they work properly jonnyb: ah, that's big disadvantage of the ajax preview then jonnyb: i think ppl will switch back to normal preview if they see they cannot see all	[18:30]
jonnyb	hmmm - looking into it	[18:31]
CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r30317 10/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [MOD]trackerhelp: button to add the fields in a pretty tracker format in the current textarea	[18:36]
luciash	ricks99: i will rather assign no flag	[18:41]
ricks99	heh, heh... piss off everyone, eh? :-)	[18:45]
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CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r30318 10/branches/6.x/lang/flagmapping.php: [FIX] language switch flagmapping: added few missing flags where appropriate... not adding the korean language one to prevent controversy	[18:54]
luciash	hmm, i wonder why zh (traditional chinese) language was removed from lang/ ? (it's still in the flagmapping though) cn and zh shouldn't show the flag imho for simmilar reasons	[18:56]
changi	luciash: hi, why not korean ?	[19:03]
luciash	because there is no north korean and no south korean language, just korean	[19:04]
jonnyb	jonnyb has found a nice chewy bug - try autosave previewing the default homepage text... Bad Things! :(	[19:04]
changi	luciash: ok good point	[19:05]
luciash	jonnyb: just seen that	[19:05]
changi	luciash: but what about the translation files ?	[19:05]
luciash	jonnyb: wanted to make sure it is the autosave or editing the page with ajax off too changi: this is only flagmapping changi: i don't touch the language files	[19:06]
changi	luciash: ok	[19:07]
CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r30319 10/branches/6.x/lang/flagmapping.php: [FIX] flagmapping: cleaning up	[19:07]
luciash	jonnyb: confirmed, it is the ajax/autosave thingy preview	[19:09]
jonnyb	on the default homepage? yes, too much urlencoding going on	[19:10]
Tikiwiki\|bot	Recent Bug: Tracker item: #3612 - - tiki-register.php and tiki-login.php ironing - http://dev.tiki.org/tiki-view_tracker_item.php?trackerId=5&itemId=3612	[19:13]
CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r30320 10/branches/6.x/lib/ajax/ (autosave.js autosave.php): [FIX] autosave: Don't url encode/decode saved data (was breaking preview of default HomePage content for instance) tikiwiki: 03changi67 * r30321 10/branches/6.x/pics/icons/mime/avi.png: [FIX] AVI deserve to have a small icon	[19:17]
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CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r30322 10/branches/6.x/tiki-auto_save.php: [FIX] autosave: Use page's wysiwyg setting to set process_wiki_paragraphs option for parse_data instead of is_html.	[19:22]
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jonnyb	ok, need to feed - bbl (msybe) :P	[19:23]
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CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r30323 10/trunk/templates/ (tiki-admin_categories.tpl tiki-edit_categories.tpl): [FIX] add missing navigation links between various category-related interfaces	[19:24]
	tikiwiki: 03lphuberdeau * r30324 10/trunk/lib/ (20 files in 7 dirs): [NEW] Very early (and very incomplete) implementation of unified search	[19:29]
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luciash	lphuberdeau: does it mean trunk will be broken for a while ?	[19:56]
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.... (idle for 15mn)
MacLeod	Unified search? :) :) :)	[20:12]
.... (idle for 15mn)
	Can I stop v6.x from asking me to choose the language when creating a new wiki page, and instead default to my user pref?	[20:27]
luciash	MacLeod: yep on Admin > Wiki ~np~"<!-- jq smarty plugin inactive: feature_jquery off -->"~/np~ does display only the quotes on doc.t.o in FANCYTABLE cell http://doc.tiki.org/PluginJq	[20:27]
CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03sampaioprimo * r30325 10/trunk/lib/ (6 files in 3 dirs): wordpress importer: import attachments (not finished yet)	[20:36]
lphuberdeau	luciash: trunk will remain stable for a bit (outside of the plugin parser change, which is separate), search changes won't apply until they are at least a bit functional but I do intend on deploying those changes fairly quickly because they will need more attention than a release sprint	[20:41]
luciash	ok, i just wondered if it's worth of experimental branch or not	[20:43]
lphuberdeau	no, not going experimental for this	[20:45]
CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03changi67 * r30326 10/branches/6.x/templates/browse_file_gallery.tpl: [FIX] if we display all files in browsing mode (that's strange because the button is browse images), then files other than images should be downloadable	[20:53]
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CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r30327 10/trunk/lib/setup/twversion.class.php: [FIX] wrong merge	[20:55]
Raevn	>help >help! Help! Ok, so I listen...	[20:56]
rodrigo_sampaio1	Raevn: apparently the bots don't want to talk with you ;)	[20:58]
Raevn	Glad to hear someone, though	[20:58]
rodrigo_sampaio1	:)	[20:58]
Raevn	Have I got the syntax right?	[20:58]
rodrigo_sampaio1	Raevn: I guess so from the topic message but I never tried	[20:58]
Raevn	Ah well. just starting off. Have to keep 50-60 groups separate in one instance of TW	[20:59]
.... (idle for 18mn)
CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r30328 10/trunk/ (lib/prefslib.php tiki-admin.php): [MOD]log: usability log the old value too to be able to rollback	[21:17]
changi	just a little bug before going to sleep, in filegal when you add a new file using upload file, the creator only get his first letter :( same as if you change the properties, creator only have the first letter :( admin become a	[21:27]
luciash	weird didn't spotted that one	[21:30]
changi	bye	[21:38]
***	changi is now known as changi\|away	[21:39]
luciash	jonnyb: seems the latest colorbox version fixes the issue with chrome browser (from my local test) jonnyb: i think i will commit that after some more testing here	[21:45]
jonnyb	it won't change though - 6.x/libs/jquery is fixed at the jquery 1.4.2 revision (on the svn:external)	[21:47]
luciash	jonnyb: oh ? colorbox is official part of jquery ? jonnyb: didn't know that	[21:47]
jonnyb	no, it's in third_party tiki repo	[21:48]
luciash	so how do i commit ? i have to svn switch first to branches/third_party or something ?	[21:48]
jonnyb	we'd either have to get 6.x working with jquery 1.4.3 or roll that back in 3rd party (and jquery-ui 1.8.5)	[21:49]
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jonnyb	no, you can do it inside 6.x (but it's easy to mess up)	[21:49]
luciash	but i didn't update jquery to 1.4.3 locally, only the colorbox files	[21:50]
jonnyb	i think if you committed it, it would effectively roll it back in 6.x (but still be there in trunk) trunk is on 1.4.3 and they share the same external	[21:50]
luciash	i think i am lost :) i don't understand how to commit properly the new version of colorbox there i think i will leave it to the "others"	[21:51]
jonnyb	yes, it's a bit messed up, sorry - my fault wasn't sure if i had time to work it out before 6.0 (it was supposed to have happened by now) but if we're doing another beta (as there have been quite a lot of regressions) then maybe i can fix it i'd still prefer to get 6.0 out first though - there maybe be other hidden nasties in those updates	[21:52]
luciash	great, i have replaced only the jquery.colorbox-min.js and jquery.colorbox.js in lib/jquery/colorbox so far and it definitely fixes the issue in chrome	[21:54]
jonnyb	ok, i'll try and look at it tomorrow	[21:55]
luciash	not sure about the styles/ subdir what to update there (didn't touched it yet)	[21:55]
jonnyb	i'll rollback the jq updates - safest i think	[21:55]
luciash	(the colorbox css and images) oki	[21:55]
jonnyb	probably the same for minor update like this	[21:56]
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jonnyb	jonnyb wishes he hadn't just sotted the {CODE} plugin seems to produce quite invalid xhtml on doc.t.o and is going to bed	[21:59]
luciash	jonnyb: nite nite	[21:59]
jonnyb	nn	[22:00]
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xavi	luciash? or any css & tpl master?	[22:03]
luciash	yes	[22:03]
xavi	hi luciash	[22:03]
luciash	hola xavi	[22:04]
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xavi	today I had a session with those guys which are in process of migrating from wordpress to Tiki in their site I upgraded to Tiki6 a few days ago (using svn)	[22:04]
nkoth	hi xavi	[22:04]
xavi	and we've done some workshop today with them hi nkoth	[22:04]
nkoth	anyone here know enough about wysiwyg to help me with a problem I am facing?	[22:05]
xavi	we've noticed a few issues with themes in blogs (at least)	[22:05]
luciash	hi nkoth (jonny just left) ;)	[22:05]
nkoth	basically in IE the wiki links created have full site url (which is wrong).	[22:05]
xavi	nkoth: define "enough"	[22:05]
nkoth	in firefox it's ok	[22:05]
xavi	ah, ok, sorry, no diea s/diea/idea luciash: see this as an example: http://www.xarxantoni.net/blog5 any idea how to fix that images don't go to the right column? but the center column resizes to have them inside?	[22:05]
luciash	xavi: svn up xavi: fixed it last night	[22:06]
xavi	ah! :-) you hardworker... :-) (I had that svn upped last night, but probably before your fix :-)	[22:06]
luciash	yeah :)	[22:07]
xavi	xavi loging in there to svn up again luciash: another question, while svn up	[22:07]
luciash	nkoth: no idea, basically no ie usage here	[22:09]
xavi	is there any page describing the changes between themes in tiki5 and tiki6? luciash: btw, you can use ie7 (at least) on GNU/Linux easily, by PlayOnLinux and Safari, the same way	[22:09]
luciash	xavi: i don't think so that there is some	[22:10]
xavi	mmmm, and do you know the differences?	[22:10]
luciash	xavi: i know, i even have some machines here now with windoze, but rare usage, as i said ;)	[22:11]
xavi	I tried faulkner, from tiki5, in a tiki6 site (that blog), and side columns felt down	[22:11]
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xavi	rare usage: ok, I know :-) (oh well, that trick might work also for Safari, for those cases when you want to test what mac-users say aout their loved browser ;-) )	[22:12]
luciash	xavi: no idea from top of my head what would cause that	[22:12]
xavi	ok, thanks	[22:12]
luciash	i have Safari here on my Ubuntu now, tested something in it last night ;)	[22:12]
xavi	xavi thinks that we need that sort of page for every new version...	[22:12]
luciash	xavi: good idea it takes somehow long, svn up --ignore-externals would do the job ;)	[22:13]
xavi	mmmm, luciash, site upgraded to r30328... browser cache cleared, but same issue :-/	[22:14]
luciash	luciash just tried to refresh that blog	[22:14]
xavi	might I be missing something?	[22:14]
luciash	humm	[22:14]
xavi	maybe tiki caches...	[22:14]
luciash	ok, if it doesn't fix it, let me inspect your CSS	[22:15]
xavi	btw, and something similar was happening with wysiwyg editor... I'll disable the minify css for you	[22:15]
luciash	ahm that minify is sticky yes, it will fix if you disable minify for css	[22:16]
xavi	ok, disabling	[22:17]
luciash	et voila :)	[22:17]
xavi	yes, you're right! nice fix, thanks! and newbie question: where can I specify the defult size for thumbnails in a file gallery?	[22:17]
nkoth	luciash: do you know how do i search sourceforge svn for commits by a particular person? I normally use my gmail for this but that account is currently dead	[22:19]
luciash	nkoth: sorry, i don't know xavi: nowhere (not implemented yet)	[22:20]
xavi	nkoth: you can try at the sf profile page for that person luciash: ah, ok, that's why I couldn't find it! :-) nkoth: example: http://sourceforge.net/users/luciash I had to visit that page to be sure about the official name you told be about, luciash, to be referred in the poster	[22:20]
luciash	heh	[22:23]
xavi	brrrr, preview (wiki pages) is not working for me in that site is showing blank perview	[22:29]
CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03chealer * r30329 10/branches/6.x/lang/fr/language.php: [FIX] French: "bares d'outils" => "barres d'outils"	[22:31]
luciash	xavi: ajax on ? xavi: it will refresh after some seconds, new pages edits are blank if you're too quick to hit preview :-p xavi: it's not ideal still	[22:31]
xavi	hehe, maybe that was the case :-) "some seconds"... :-) anyway, I found counter intuitive that when you click on "preview" a second time, the preview doesn't refresh but closes... I expected to force the reload of the preview, since it was not reloading	[22:33]
luciash	xavi: just told the same today to jonny	[22:35]
xavi	ok :-)	[22:35]
luciash	xavi: he considers "fixing" it (hopefully)	[22:35]
xavi	:-) luciash: another question for you (from the seminar/workshop we had today in xar@ntoni): is it possible/easy to add some button in the toolbars to have text justified? or to allow users to that easily somehow? those users coming from wordpress, they miss that text justification in Tiki, it seems	[22:36]
luciash	xavi: yes, i miss that too you can create plugin alias for it from plugin DIV and insert it then as {JT()}text{JT} for example	[22:37]
xavi	nice	[22:40]
luciash	or %jt%text%tj% using dyn vars	[22:40]
CIA-60	tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r30330 10/branches/6.x/templates/list_file_gallery_content.tpl: typo	[22:40]
xavi	what's the syntax for that plugin DIV for justified text?	[22:41]
luciash	{DIV(style="text-align: justify")}...	[22:42]
xavi	ok,thks	[22:42]
luciash	any RSS i could put on my https://sourceforge.net/users/luciash ? ohloh doesn't seem to have one, np, i will delete that widget	[22:43]
xavi	luciash: it was working yesterday	[22:49]
luciash	what	[22:49]
xavi	that's why I added my ohloh equivalent, even if it was not working for me ohloh widget	[22:49]
luciash	ah it didn't seem to parse xml today	[22:50]
xavi	yes, I saw it, nor yesterday for me btw, fyi: wysiwyg has a "justify text" button disabled by default, but can be added to the wysiwyg tolbars in Tiki6, at least	[22:50]
luciash	oh yea but no wiki markup equiv	[22:51]
xavi	nope	[22:51]
luciash	btw, how u like my postit note on doc.t.o now ? :) draggable, closable permanently with status stored in a cookie	[22:51]
xavi	yes, much better now (you can close it and keep it closed while loading other pages) nice mmm, switching from text to wysiwig to text lost the text edited :-/ preview on wysiwyg?	[22:54]
luciash	just played with some JQ on the doc.t.o L&F JS custom code and CSS ;) ah yup, i was wondering too, but maybe there is a use case :) i still prefer the good ol' preview (no ajax) :-/ xavi: how come u r so late up tonight ?	[22:57]
xavi	good question :-)	[23:02]
luciash	home alone ?	[23:02]
xavi	I didn't want to forget about the issues we detected tonight in that site. I'm fixing the most I can myself (configuration changes and tweaks or workarounds to issues), and considering to bur report... hoome alone: nope. And I wanted to grade students work before the class for tomorrow, but... not enough time	[23:02]
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luciash	good stuff	[23:04]
xavi	plus tomorrow evening I'm going a few days to that conference where we present the preliminry work with Tiki and PluginR :-)	[23:04]
luciash	yea, time time time	[23:04]
xavi	:-) well, as m o s e would say (I don't want to bother him pinging him), time is not the problem, but the problem is that we want to do more things in that time, more than what is possible :-) back to tweaking the last things (before bed time) mmm, and isn't it quite late there also, luciash? :-)	[23:04]
luciash	hehe well, my working hours are shifted now, i work during the night mostly	[23:09]
	btw, changed that spanish flag to catalan today for catalan language in flagmapping for the language switch module ;)	[23:17]
xavi	:-) argh, I tried adding that custom icon for wiki toolbar, but ... ... "text" from "text-align" in here {DIV(style="text-align: justify")}... is replaced by the selected text when clicking at the button... :-/	[23:21]
luciash	argh :D u need the plugin alias then fairly easy to set up one	[23:25]
xavi	ok, too much for me, so late at night. No problem: there won't be a justify-text button	[23:26]
luciash	tomorrow ;)	[23:26]
xavi	maybe in some days time :-) (tomorrow: pretty busy day before the conference) thanks for feedbck and tips, luciash g'night	[23:27]
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luciash	i can do it for u too late :)	[23:27]
..... (idle for 24mn)
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