FADE plugin opens but doesn't close back upon next click ? brb well off to bed all nn Recent Bug: Tracker item: #3743 - - Image selection for Logo shuld be drop down from uploaded files - http://dev.tiki.org/tiki-view_tracker_item.php?trackerId=5&itemId=3743 Other than it just hasn't been implemented yet, is there any reason that file gallery descriptions couldn't or shouldn't be made wiki-parsable? New Forum Posts: Customizing email notifications - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=40109 dabright, i think they could (i see no reason) tikiwiki: 03ricks99 * r31918 10/branches/proposals/6.x/templates/tiki-edit_blog.tpl: [FIX] fixed the skinny 1st column issue on the General tab. Still needs work, should remove all tables and use div layouts from admin panels instead. greetings chiba bbiab rr, sorry, wasn't paying attention. wonder if someone could answer me a quick layout question in tiki files? what is the tab indent size? pfft nvm silly question so used to working with space indents >.< hi garethmcc, http://dev.tiki.org/DevTips might be helpful; I'm not sure if indent is mentioned. hey chiba i read that but it isnt except for saying that tiki uses tab indetns not spaces threfore size of indent is unimportant .. a tab is a tab whether my IDE makes it 1, 2, 4 or 8 only I see that size of indent is php4 support important to tiki? No, afaik it isn't. I think php 5 is a requirement. http://doc.tiki.org/Requirements#PHP eventually found it after going release notes hehe :-) Is there something in particular you're interested in coding in Tiki? kind of just looking around ... was contemplating adding value by just improvements overall and not specifically a feature for example I noticed that class files seem to still use the PHP4 style of object method definition with no public, private or protected settings hence my question about php version requirement :) I see. I'm not that familiar with PHP but imagine there's definitely room for improvement. Did you get svn commit access yet? not yet I just pulled latest trunk anonymously time to grab some lunch :) OK. so what is your "role" in tiki then chiba? Mostly I work on themes (visual skins, etc.) and usability. I've been around long enough to bubble up to project admin. So I can do the induction ceremony whenever you're ready (takes about 30 sec.) give me a minute just nuking up some leftover chicken :) sure well all set ... Actually it's very simple, but it's kinda neat to think of it as a ceremony rather than just a cold admin process. The ceremony has three steps. Step One is already done (you are registered at sourceforge). suits you :P Step Two: have you read and do you agree to abide by Tiki's 3 Rules (http://dev.tiki.org/3rules) :-) Yup, those are the rules all my coding lives by OK, then, on to Step Three: your sourceforge username is garethmcc? yes it is OK, you're in. :-) Thank you very much :) sometimes there is actually an audience. You're welcome. i guess its too early on a saturday morning for the US crowd hehe yep. where are you located? south africa oh, new territory. I'm in Chiba, Japan. must be getting into late afternoon for you now ah, it's about 8 in the evening. not that many europena folks involved with tiki? actually quite a few. active contributors in France, Spain, Germany, Czech Republic that I recall offhand. bet I'm the first African :P Yep, as far as I know. sounds like a good idea .. I'm sure there are tiki users over here and for foreigners south africa is dirt cheap to visit :-) polom hi garethmcc welcome to the community :-) garethmcc : are you in the USA? http://tiki.org/TikiFestBoston7 marclaporte: garathmcc is in south africa. polom-end hi marc hi chibaguy & marclaporte - did good things yesterday on the modules sorry had to drop everything and go taxi the fiance around a bit was that a polom closing tag? polom-end for the week-end really not :) I know that feeling, garethmcc - been married 25 years and still taxiing. ;-) jonnyb, nice. I'll have a look again. i also made a page on dev.t.o - https://dev.tiki.org/Modules+Revamp ah, i see you spotted it! :) yep, made a very minor contribution. ;-) it's good to keep up the documentation on this. It'll be a pretty radical change, for sure, and the more info the better. that's what i was thinking i'll need to do a mail to the devels list before merging back and it should probably also be sent more widely via the forums etc i need to do the bottom bar migration script, and the sitemycode to user modules then i think it's ready do you have a list (or know) which prefs contain smarty code and so could be made into a UM? will menus be a module? It doesn't add much value to put a menu in a module to use it's already a module in the exp branch if there was a menu module, it could have the menu params (vertical, horizontal, etc.) awesome exacto was a 20 minute job! :) amazing we didn't have one before... One thing I will use in module revamp is switch language module, which I like having at the top indeed - that works during coding last night i had an error in my code and managed to wipe out all my modules... only took a few minutes to put them all back! :) and it's actually quite fun now! btw marclaporte - demo.t.o seemed unhappy last night - any ideas? yeah! it's not happy with trunk that server has MySQL4 For ease of upgrading, if there is a tiki-top module, it can be given the css properties that #tiki-top has now, and it would be trivial to change #tiki-top to .tiki-top in css files. yes, did that last night chibaguy - added menu_id and menu_class to the menu module works fine with the top menu bleh marclaporte - should we upgrade it? (min spec for 7 is mysql 5 surely?) I'm thinking about how to target the menu for theme design purposes. If the old name (tiki-top) is used, there is continuity. i don't think it should be an id - you might want the same thing at the bottom for instance I don't know how it would work to try to make themes' site header areas if there is no consistency about menu-area names, etc. but for legacy purposes it's now possible right, I think it should be a class - one difference re: tiki 6. so change #tiki-top to .tiki-top in stylesheets. each module does have a fixed class (box-module_name) It's a production server with many customers, so I am not in a mood for an upgrade (no time to deal with issues) and the containers are still the same (#header, #left_modules etc) could there be a tiki-top module by default, activated as the last module in the top modules area? there is on fresh install, and upgrades, yes (well, strictly speaking, it doesn't have to be named tiki-top, except for legacy reasons) sounds good. I think the 6>7 upgrades should be pretty smooth, re themes. it'll be the heavily customised ones that will feel the pain Right. Maybe some creative thinking about how to do with modules what was done it tpls, I imagine. it > in I have a few themes that will be good edge cases. New Forum Posts: When images fail to appear - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=40113 About the CSS (overall), I think it will be good to have reset rules (if not a reset.css), and also maybe consider a grid system for consistent widths. you thinking blueprint? Not necessarily. I want to evaluate different ones. as long as we can keep fluid layouts too, sounds ok to me we have been using blueprint at work and its very good theres a fixed width version and a liquid one Yes, it's one that's often mentioned. (if someone has the spare days to convert everything - i don't) never been a though to use an mvc framework for tiki? just curious we need to be realistic as to what can be really delivered for Tiki 7 - changing layout might be one straw too many true hi garethmcc - been reading your mails to devels Funny, I just came across the term mvc yesterday (not a tech guy by trade). jonnyb, right. this (grid system) is rather preliminary kind of thinking. essentially mvc just seperates business logic from design and the Controller layer ties the two together i had similar thought for my first few years with tiki - that kind of "rewriting the whole thing properly" stuff fades away after a while :P it doesn't have to happen overnight hehe .. the best way to do it is just to start one file at a time what works better here is gradual migration - so if we can bit by bit start to do that... excatly converting the tiki codebase to an mvc framework is a MASSIVE undertaking have you used the Zend framework? im a symfony guy mostly looks like best for us (as it's already in there) well .. Zend framework has always struck me as a bunch of modules to perform functions that you can bolt on aha, only just heard about symfony recently (NY 'fest) frameworks like symfony though is a complete redesign of the entire app which is why it would be a massive undertaking they do have an MCV thingy too afaik the problem is that converting to mvc is huge, especially with an existing codebase this large what would the benefits be? like chibaguy said, best to do it incrementally .. hell .. tiki can create its own mvcish structure eventually instead of trying to convert everything in one go mvc makes it soooooo much easier to maintain exactly - and 50% of my time for instance is spent just bolting buts of tiki back on that have fallen off! ironically the projects that are the most difficult to convert to mvc are the ones that benefit the most, the really big ones but of course all this talk of mvc and so on goes against what i read about abstraction on the dev wiki lol chibaguy, the other benefit as well is that developing new things is faster you can pretty much bolt a new feature in, and its pretty much standalone, without breaking or affecting other parts trackers might be a good example for this... mmmmm interesting idea just came to mind we plan to completely pull them apart and rebuild them in Boston in March (show no fear!) Is it possible to mvc-ize just one feature, like trackers, intitially? trackers is the most horrid hairy bit of tiki i think each "part" of tiki converted to mvc instead of the entire app into one monolithic mvc project hehe well .. if we see tiki as a collection of individual apps just tied together into a global layout then yes you can chibaguy it isn't looked at that way, normally btw .. correct me if my assumptions are wrong, only had a couple hours to browse through the code so not a tiki expert by any means lol I guess looking at trackers as a separate app would just be a contrived thing in order to implement mvc, if that's possible. I think, conceptually, the interrelatedness of the features is what people value about Tiki. And I am not saying that I aren't interrelated They would all be sharing the same database and configs etc Right now though I think the best course is to start one file at a time abstracting function for each "page" into seperate classes, then refactoring common functionality into parent classes that can be shared across all the "page" classes what we would probably find eventually is we incrementally create our own MVC structure Would this be related to what Carsten wrote about on the dev list, about finding the commonality in the wiki, blog, article pages, etc.? Sounds like something that should happen at the same time. ok ... well .. tiki is rather large we could spend all the time and effort just investigating what is common with this and that this other part of tiki and never actually get anything done but if we just start at a base level abstracting functions into new classes for each "page" +1 for a common interface to wiki/html text (in pages, articles, blogs, calendars, trackers etc) well then we can directly compare using those classes what is common and so build the common class that they can all inherit from probably what tiki needs most imho (structurally) is there a lot of love for smarty in tiki? not from me (my fave site was nosmarty.net for a while, but it's gone now) I ask because I have not used smarty much most of the problems in tiki stem from when people were writing complex logic and computation into the templates will be quite the learning curve for me yes and thats exactly what I am trying o address to* almost impossible to debug, massively wasteful in resources, slow, hard to read (i could go on... :P ) and not to mention that copy/pasted code is a nightmare to maintain i even blogged about it lol http://www.synaq.com/news-releases/ban-ctrlc-in-your-development I don't know directly, but I imagine things like smarty blocks, etc. for buttons, tabs, pagination, etc. are pretty useful, as is the caching, I guess. Unless there is a superior alternative. it's not the copying that's the problem, i reckon... chibaguy, if you have php files with the correct code in them already to do that and all you need to is include them its the same thing doesnt rely on people having to learn yet another language as well symfony calls them partials zend has a templating system somewhere in it (but this is idle chatter - we can't get rid of smarty) :-) no one has 300 hours spare i know a lot of my questions are just trying to get to know tiki better as well personally I am more comfortable working on the backend side of things, logic etc, so I am guessing there are guys that would be better suited at getting their feet wet with smarty hehe have you done much "community coding"? (i hadn't before coming to tiki) not on an open source project no it's rather different from my previous experience - either solo, in very small groups voluntarily or large teams commercially i have worked on large project with a distributed team somewhere on dev.t.o there a nice page about how the tiki project cannot possibly work - coding in a "wiki-way" is madness! well thats why I am trying to get a handle on peoples feelings and so on before i just jump in and go banana's and yet here we are 9 years on, and climbing! most wise (not everyone does that, as you'll see in the code!) bbiab 1st thing is to review our use of Smarty jonnyb: I see what you mean about the tracker module oh hi marc and to upgrade to Smarty3 and take advantage of new benefits hi garethmcc! marclaporte: just fixing that mysql 5 only thing... marclaporte: were you on FLOSS weekly? yes jonnyb : tks i still have the bookmark on my desktop for that FLOSS video - didn't make it past the guy's intro... was an interesting discussion the cohost seemed to enjoy harping on about automated tests lol hehe I should have answered a bit better i thought you did really tbh really well* thank you so what type of project are you using Tiki for? well .. ever heard of second life? i am trying to build stuff in SL that tie into a web based service that people in sl can use in their browsers etc so kinda need wiki to describe the product, tracking to help with bug reporting, forums for the community to discuss stuff, blog to post about new releases etc and so no There is a browser within SL? no .. but you can make scripts in sl send data to a web service and so people can use a web app to influence stuff in sl actually there is a browser in sl but it has no support for javascript or plugins like flash etc so rather limited hmm, odd - that sql breaks on my 5.4 mysql too - but i found something that does work ok on both (hope it does the same thing) anyone else listen to dan carlin's hardcore history podcast? tikiwiki: 03changi67 * r31919 10/trunk/lib/smarty_tiki/function.norecords.php: [ENH] New smarty plugin to manage no records entries tikiwiki: 03changi67 * r31920 10/trunk/templates/ (43 files): [ENH] Deploy norecords smarty plugin 1/2 Recent Bug: Tracker item: #3744 - - Use Tiki feature as homepage not working - http://dev.tiki.org/tiki-view_tracker_item.php?trackerId=5&itemId=3744 marclaporte: http://demo.tiki.org/trunk fixed - do you think i also need to do setup.sh there? (seems ok) usually, ye do you think it's to do with the error is chucks out? (`demotw:apache': invalid group) polom tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r31922 10/branches/experimental/xajax_removal/ (51 files in 7 dirs): [MRG] Automatic merge, trunk 31900 to 31921 jonnyb : that error has been there for a while, but seems harmless just wondering if it was why you always need to do setup.sh after svnup - i don't on other servers - might be connected New Forum Posts: Problems with Live Preview and WYSIWIG Editing - 6.1 - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=40114 anyway - that sql error i fixed - and i'm playing with the modules :) on http://demo.tiki.org/xajax_removal tikiwiki: 03changi67 * r31923 10/trunk/templates/ (41 files): [ENH] Deploy norecords smarty plugin 2/2 I mentioned thinking about a grid system for Tiki a while ago. Just to clarify, I don't mean trying to adopt a system like Blueprint or 960 intact. I mean something more along the lines of using the principles of a grid system to define... ...some CSS classes for element widths. ok, that makes sense This would be available for boxes in wikitext, too, for more attractive layout there. i'm just experiencing what you're saying i think on http://demo.tiki.org/xajax_removal the header is fluid which produces some nasty alignment issues there is one advantage to using an existing grid "framework" its tried, tested and used in many places very succesfully the biggest disadvantage is implementation :/ We have to think about retrofitting, for one thing. exactly using something like blueprint for example means going through all existing css and removing all attributes that influence width and then going through every page that uses the css and adding the grid specific classes not only that but a lot of the grid frameworks also need things laid out in a specific ways with parentdivs done just so with child divs inside them etc Actually I don't think widths are specified much for Tiki's elements, so there may not be a lot to remove. But we have to consider that Tiki's layout is very end-user configurable, so any system has to have a lot of tolerance for that. kind of "yikes" jquery is very good at dynamically changing classes It'd be nice to not have to go that route, though. if the layouts are user configurable then it might be needed to have jquery do that, especially with that idea I read about dragging modules around ajax wise :/ This looks interesting to me: http://oocss.org/ very similar to blueprint I don't know what jonny has in mind for resizing of ajax-dragged modules. As far as I know, they will go to side columns, which have widths set, or to the horizontal top and bottom areas, where they'll probably need to have widths specified, but probably at the time of module creation. one thing to bear in mind the more work you give the client the less the server does and therefore the more concurrency the server can support tough one to draw the line though Tiki can be full-width and liquid, or fixed-width now, and it can have 1, 2, or 3 columns, sometimes in different combinations in one installation, so the 'grid' needs to be ok with that. me and the ui developer at work oten have arguments hehe well, there will be other opinions in the Tiki group, too, about changing something like this. Though people are generally ok if it is clearly an improvement and there's no bad side-effect. well grid based css will only be an improvement People talk about Tiki being 'ugly' (front end, not code, in this case ;-) ) and I think one reason is there's no logic to the spacing. i noticed that too one page will be laid out one way and another a different way one thing that was slightly cringe worthy was the use of tables to layout pages grid based css can resolve that too And when the page is wiki-based, people tend to have no guidelines on how to do well-spaced columns or module boxes. We finally got rid of tables for layout of the main tiki parts at version 3, but there are still some layout tables here and there. i've seen a few forms on teh admin backend that uses tables quite a bit Yep. Haven't been a high priority. but they're steadily being replaced. though slowly Anyway, time to sleep here. g'night. chibaguy: i'm trying to work out what to do with "modularising" the bottom bar - mostly it has links in (report, share, powered by etc) - should i make a "link" module or... ah, too late :P heh i'll work something out nn Chiba Yeah, I don't know if the parts down there should be separated. Well, I guess they should along the lines of how they're turned on or off in admin now. not for long! :) Unless you make a module with parameters to switch on|off the items. or why not something more generic so it'll be able to do the "like" links etc... hmmm, might be more interesting than i though - nn chibaguy well, a whole module for "powered by" maybe is overkill. On the other hand, the user-friendliness shouldn't be a step backwards from Tiki 6. anyway, g'night tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r31924 10/trunk/lib/prefs/shipping.php: [FIX] shipping: typo on filter New Forum Posts: Probleme mit Menüs in 6.1 - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=10&comments_parentId=40115 hi .. someone help me? my search bar is not showing up i checked the search bar option under the look and feel. but the search bar is not showing up.. can someone help? somebody? http://allstarpedia.com/NHL no search bar???? New Forum Posts: Maxx - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=6&comments_parentId=40116 tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r31929 10/branches/experimental/xajax_removal/lib/modules/tiki-admin_modules.js: [ENH] modules revamp: Add edit and delete icons in module admin tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r31930 10/branches/experimental/xajax_removal/ (lib/modules/modlib.php tiki-admin_modules.php): [FIX] modules revamp: Reset all module ord's to current position after new assign (needs checking, went wrong once)