#tikiwiki 2011-03-12,Sat

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Who	What	When
CIA-83	tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r33340 10/branches/proposals/6.x/lang/fr/language.php: [FIX]case tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r33341 10/trunk/lang/fr/language.php: [FIX]case	[00:01]
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xavi	polom any tikifester around? I guess not, because of the time zones... anyway, just in case... I found a good candiate (imho) for the new name of the Trackers feature... for after tracker revamp... or even earlier... after thinking for many weeks about it "Data Tables" a single tracker will no be the equivalent to a database (the name that I'0ve been using for years to explain what trackers were, for people to whom "trackers" meant nothing) but to a datatable	[10:44]
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chibaguy	polom	[10:48]
xavi	and with several datatables (like in mysql), linked, etc., with indexes (IsMain , etc), would mean something similar to a database polom-after-earthquake! good to see you around chibaguy I read the log from yesterday... and saw the news... are you already at home, or still in the "cubicle"?	[10:49]
chibaguy	heh, yes, I made it home ok; everyone in my office is ok, and family is ok.	[10:50]
xavi	phew... such event from Nature...	[10:50]
chibaguy	Our house needs cleaning up though. It's hard to imagine how much it was shaking to move things around. No one was home at the time.	[10:50]
xavi	you were lucky	[10:51]
chibaguy	Except for the traumatized dog.	[10:51]
xavi	oups	[10:51]
chibaguy	I think she'll recover ok.	[10:51]
xavi	good	[10:51]
chibaguy	So you have a new name for trackers?	[10:51]
xavi	he he... well yes (proposal, of course) :-) http://irc.tiki.org/irclogger_log/tikiwiki?date=2011-03-12,Sat&sel=24#l20	[10:52]
chibaguy	Ah, Data Tables.	[10:55]
xavi	I would initially prefer "database", because users are more familiar (probably) with it and you can use trackers to create your own custom database of items, etc but a single tracker wouldn't be a database 'sensu stricto' but a data table, like a mysql table within a mysql database and that's why "Data Table" they can have forms, reports, stats, etc. from a single table (tracker) or from a set of tables (= database, tracker base = tracker set = Data base in Tiki)	[10:56]
chibaguy	Yep, it's definitely logical.	[10:58]
xavi	initially I thought that database (or data tables) might create confusion with uisers which know that the database in tiki is mysql, etc. but in fact, that's not going to be the case, since users know that there are "file galleries" in Tiki, to hold user files, etc. and they don't make the confusion with Tiki's own files (tiki-index.php , etc) even if both things are "files" so that's why I think that something similar to feature "Data Bases" o "Data Tables" would be a good candidate s/a/some	[10:59]
chibaguy	I think it's probably agreed that Trackers is too narrow (as in bug tracker) so your idea is in the right direction, for sure.	[11:01]
xavi	not only narrow, but missleading for 90% of the users (and new admins) of most of the Tikis I've installed and helped to admin in Spanish, Catalan, etc. "trackers" means nothing and I still remember that it took me something like to 2 years (!) to understand that a Tracker in Tiki was like a database creator and manager.	[11:02]
chibaguy	heh	[11:03]
xavi	And in those 2 years I was looking for other software to manage custom databases in other cms's... kind of frustrating of course, documentation is much better know than before... but also overwhelming for a newbie...	[11:03]
chibaguy	yep, sure shows that the name isn't self-explanatory.	[11:04]
xavi	and the clearer the name, the better to start in the right and clear direction for the whole Tiki user base s/better know/better nowadays well, I'm back to testing the GroupMail feature in tiki 6.x... it's not working for me in 6.x, I dunno why (and it was for sure, in 4.x... I documented it!) and I was finally going to use it for production... xavi is sad to see how many things are still broken or not working properly in our stable 6.x, and the future LTS...)	[11:04]
chibaguy	It seems like adding/enhancing new features should slow down or be paused and instead time should be put into fixing things.	[11:09]
xavi	+10	[11:09]
chibaguy	Anyway for tiki 6.	[11:10]
xavi	there needs to be a balance, of course (some "tiki service providers" probably need to "sell" new tiki features to get funding,e tc)	[11:10]
chibaguy	Time to eat here now. I'll be back soon.	[11:10]
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xavi	but if the base is not working.... or if the features they have sold, break in < 24 months (in Europe) they are (should, at least) be in trouble ok, enjoy your meal!	[11:11]
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sylvieg	agree with you guys - too many broken things in 6 It is time to slow down and to fix	[11:55]
xavi	yes, sylvieg, I agree last: webmail seems to be broken and the last issue: webmail is not working for me, but the worst is that an admin seems to be unable to delete the non-working email account... and that is consuming lots of browser time (ajax_xajax was enabled , etc) :-/	[12:00]
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Tiki\|bot0	Recent Bug: Tracker item: #3813 - - 6x: Groupmail doesn't work for me (but it was ok for me in 4x). Is webmail working? - http://dev.tiki.org/tiki-view_tracker_item.php?trackerId=5&itemId=3813	[12:46]
xavi	oups, webmail seems to work finally also with pop3 account (weird)	[12:46]
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luciash	polom	[13:38]
xavi	molop	[13:39]
luciash	xavi: what about "Data Forms" ? I would rather prefer that to avoid confusion with real database tables...	[13:39]
xavi	Hi luciash. Trackers are not just forms and this confusion (imho) wouldn't exist, in the same way that there is not confusion with "files" (tiki files) files from file galleries or files uploaded by ftp such as tiki-index.php, etc. (I'm talking about end users, etc) "Data Reports" are for trackers in a similar way to "Data Forms"	[13:40]
CIA-83	tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r33342 10/trunk/css/ie7.css: [FIX] z-indexes added for IE7 to keep cssmenus on top of other content such as tabcontent.	[13:42]
xavi	to me, the easiest, shortest, simplest, etc. would be either "Data Tables" or "Data Bases" (instead of Trackers) "Structured Data" would be also quite specific, but it's not as easy for new users as Database (or data tables, if we don't want to use esactly the word "database").	[13:44]
luciash	"Data Records" sounds nice too :) or "Data Books" ? imho in every language any title can sound funny or confusing... imho it could stay Trackers... but translate in your language as you feel appropriate	[13:45]
xavi	See this: Dadabik: Database Interface Creator...	[13:45]
luciash	Dadabik ? chibaguy: hi, good to hear that	[13:46]
xavi	it's not a question of translation... I bet my 21-old USA students (non-techie) have no idea what a tracekr is tracker	[13:46]
luciash	luciash likes "Databook" ;)	[13:47]
xavi	http://www.dadabik.org/ -> to create databases for users on a free soft. php + mysql (and other db's) based application	[13:47]
CIA-83	tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r33343 10/branches/proposals/6.x/css/ie7.css: [bp/r33342][FIX] z-indexes added for IE7 to keep cssmenus on top of other content such as tabcontent.	[13:47]
xavi	Databooks: ok, good candidate, imho, also	[13:48]
luciash	xavi: ah, i see	[13:48]
chibaguy	re that's good, luci. xavi, I used Dadabik for a project years ago. It's pretty neat.	[13:49]
xavi	yes, chibaguy, I agree. I used it too for a few projects years ago (while I didn't know that trackers were to create databases) a common use case is that a client has a (ms access or other) database, and they want it online they will look for some software which allows them to have their database online, and they will not find Tiki as an alternative even if they search the 1000+ pages of documentation!	[13:50]
chibaguy	I think I might have known that Tiki's trackers were a database kind of thing, but I found Dadabik to be easy for a noob to use. IIRC, I didn't know how to do the same kinds of things with trackers.	[14:00]
xavi	:-D	[14:01]
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xavi	I didn't follow the evolution of dadabik since many years ago... but trackers are very powerful right now (while you don't hit any bug in your way) I woner if dadabik followed a similar path as trackers did... but anyway, beyond my roadmap for this weekend :-) s/woner/wonder anyone using webmail for any of your clients? tiki webmail, I mean I'm willing to use GroupMail (based on webmail) for our local barter group in our suburb, and it's still a promising feature! however, there are some tiny issues here and there which make it unusable for production and I know jonnyb is quite busy with too many things related with Tiki	[14:02]
luciash	webmail is usable only as emergency solution as it doesn't support attachments yet	[14:07]
chibaguy	Time to sleep here. Will be back tomorrow. Thanks for your good thoughts and words, guys.	[14:08]
luciash	the attachments are displayed garbage-text	[14:08]
xavi	nor non-english text, nor paginating the webmail module, nor mail folders, ...	[14:08]
luciash	chibaguy: sleep well	[14:08]
xavi	ok, g'night luciash: more basic than that: non english text is not shown! (I mean , accents, etc): hidden in html version of message, and weird chars shown in the text version of the message or maybe charset conflicts? (even if I try to use utf-8 everywhere) I'm willing to pay some coder to fix those things.... but everyone seems to be too busy... we need more coders willing to help to fix things (even with paid work, we need more help!)	[14:08]
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xavi	bbl (food time) and walk-the-dog-time-on-a-rainy-day	[14:12]
luciash	i got czech characters correctly in webmail	[14:12]
xavi	lucky you!	[14:12]
luciash	i fixed some issues actually in the listings	[14:13]
xavi	then it must be charset issue there are issues still maybe because user sends email with iso-8859-1 and tiki expect utf-8 :-(	[14:13]
luciash	in 6 OR TRUNK ? oops, sorry	[14:13]
xavi	6x using stable well, "stable" in theory	[14:14]
luciash	6.2	[14:14]
xavi	I don't even dare to test trunk for any serious stuff	[14:14]
luciash	but i tested with utf-8 mails so far only... or iso-8859-2 sorry, gotta finish this translation now... bbl	[14:14]
xavi	ok, see you	[14:15]
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dthacker	anybody heard from chibaguy?	[15:01]
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luciash	dthacker: yep, he and his family is safe... see the log irc.tiki.org	[15:18]
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xavi	mmm,, anyone any idea if group watch is storing some info in the tiki logs as individual email-watch events?	[16:34]
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xavi	or.... can anyone confirm that group watch is working on blogs in 6x?	[16:36]
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CIA-83	tikiwiki: 03pkdille * r33344 10/trunk/tiki-webmail_ajax.php: Remove useless commented code	[17:08]
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dthacker	luciash: great news! thank you	[17:17]
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xavi	polom help is needed to identify how to fix this (non i18n) string in a template: {tr 0=$prefs.sender_email\|default:"{tr}this domain{/tr}"\|escape}If you use an email filter, be sure to add %0 to your accepted list{/tr} it comes from tiki-register.tpl , and it seems that it's not parsed properly (it's not included in language.php files once get_strings.php is run, etc any smarty guru around to fix the above line? ^ I mean, can tr smarty tags be nested?	[17:34]
luciash	no idea, but i would try to remove it	[17:36]
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CIA-83	tikiwiki: 03xavidp * r33345 10/trunk/templates/tiki-register.tpl: tikiwiki: [FIX]This nested smarty tr tag prevented the string to show up in the localized tikiwiki: language.php. Better to show 'default' in English (when no default email) and tikiwiki: the rest always localized, than showing always the whole string in English. If tikiwiki: someone has a better fix, please do, but ensure we don't loose this translated tikiwiki: string (I remember I had this translated in the past, and probably a few times). tikiwiki: 03xavidp * r33346 10/branches/proposals/6.x/templates/tiki-register.tpl: tikiwiki: [FIX][bp/r33345]This nested smarty tr tag prevented the string to show up in the tikiwiki: localized language.php. Better to show 'default' in English (when no default tikiwiki: email) and the rest always localized, than showing always the whole string in tikiwiki: English. If someone has a better fix, please do, but ensure we don't loose this tikiwiki: translated string (I remember I had this translated in the past, and probably a tikiwiki: few times). tikiwiki: 03xavidp * r33347 10/branches/6.x/lang/ca/language.php: One string re-added for i18n on registration	[18:00]
xavi	thanks for feedback luciash	[18:03]
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CIA-83	tikiwiki: 03xavidp * r33348 10/branches/proposals/6.x/lang/ca/language.php: Comitting the same file as in branch/6x, since it's a little bit tricky to fix i18n-related things in proposals with an outdated file of strings	[18:24]
	tikiwiki: 03xavidp * r33349 10/branches/6.x/lang/ca/language.php: One string re-added for i18n on registration (missing)	[18:32]
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fabricius	polom	[19:27]
sylvieg	are some people in the tiki house? I am ready to drive there - but if the house is empty...	[19:29]
fabricius	Ah you r in Boston?	[19:31]
sylvieg	lexington	[19:31]
fabricius	ok	[19:31]
sylvieg	20mn from the tiki house	[19:31]
fabricius	if you have 5 minutes, you might explain me s.th.	[19:32]
sylvieg	yeh	[19:32]
fabricius	you remember the site search bar ... I did put the sitesearchbar without background picture in the header top right it should be in or besides the secondary menu css wise that's ok for the moment - not elegant, but I got there I would like to take off the word "search" from the standart sitesearchbar and I am looking throughout the tikicode, where that is organised I guess that is not a css thing, but might have to do s.th with .tpl or so?	[19:33]
sylvieg	spmething like .search .btn {display: none;} ?	[19:35]
fabricius	or am I completely wrong and it would be an admin thing? yes, s.th. like that what does that mean: .search .btn I am just starting to look into the code stuff trying to learn to read the code and trying first mini mini mini adjustments ;-)	[19:35]
sylvieg	when you want to hide some part on a tpl - an easy solution is to hide blocks with css the class for the search bar is .search the class for the button is .btn so you say every object of class btn that is in an object of class search will be hidden	[19:38]
fabricius	ah - css or smarty thought?	[19:40]
sylvieg	you can solve both way	[19:41]
fabricius	what I do not want to have displayed is just the word "search" left of the input field ... the field and the "go" button should be visible	[19:41]
sylvieg	but the css is more local than a tpl and easy to do the upgrade	[19:41]
fabricius	understand	[19:41]
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sylvieg	hi rodrigo_sampaio: is Daniel arrived?	[19:41]
fabricius	better do it in one css file, than to do in several files and to have to take care at every update	[19:42]
rodrigo_sampaio	sylvieg: you mean if he arrived in boston? sylvieg: yes, he arrived yesterday	[19:42]
sylvieg	ah.. is he in the tiki house now?	[19:42]
rodrigo_sampaio	sylvieg: I'm not in the TikiHouse	[19:42]
sylvieg	ah ok...	[19:43]
rodrigo_sampaio	sylvieg: I came with him to RoCoCo earlier and he left a while ago to meet you	[19:43]
sylvieg	and marc and cie - when do they arrive?	[19:43]
rodrigo_sampaio	sylvieg: he was going back to the TikiHouse	[19:43]
sylvieg	better to leave now...	[19:43]
rodrigo_sampaio	sylvieg: the guys from montreal arrive later today	[19:43]
sylvieg	leaving now	[19:44]
rodrigo_sampaio	sylvieg: not sure if marc is coming today or tomorrow, he was sick sylvieg: ok	[19:44]
sylvieg	:-(	[19:44]
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rodrigo_sampaio	sylvieg: he will probably come tomorrow	[20:01]
Tiki\|bot	Info: Tiki Suite and Confoo.ca - http://info.tiki.org/article156-Tiki-Suite-and-Confoo-ca	[20:04]
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ricks99	polom y'all quiet in boston...	[20:26]
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fabricius	polom ricks still there?	[21:14]
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rodrigo_sampaio	ricks99: we are at Recent Changes Camp ricks99: so far only me, chealer and daniel ricks99: the rest of the guys from montreal will arrive today	[21:30]
fabricius	greetz to New England	[21:31]
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ricks99	hola rodrigo	[22:07]
rodrigo_sampaio	hola ricks99 ricks99: RoCoCo just finished, we are going back to the TikiHouse bye	[22:08]
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ricks99	talk w/ u later	[22:09]
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jblz	hello, a podcast i'm associated with is using tiki. There is a problem with the password recovery, where it is requiring a person to be logged in to recover their password which, of course, is a bit of a chicken and egg problem	[23:17]
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Tiki\|bot	Recent Bug: Tracker item: #3814 - - Additional search options if results are not good - http://dev.tiki.org/tiki-view_tracker_item.php?trackerId=5&itemId=3814	[23:43]

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