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ChanServ sets mode: +o marclaporte Tiki|bot: New Forum Posts: External login - https://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=41254
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chealer has joined #tikiwiki xen216: Hello tiki friends. I'm looking for help deciding which version of tiki I should be using.
I've been working with tiki for a month or so, configuring it for use by a developing organization. mostly configuring it, but also I've written a few custom wiki plugins, theme, and code chunks here and there.
I'm wondering if I should be using a development branch and how stable or not it may be.
I have been using tiki 6.X. not entirely sure I understand what version 7 is about... like is that going to become what 6.x has been as 6.x becomes the LTS version?
I want to become a tiki developer.
what's the ceremony for joining the community and getting SVN commit access like? I've read and agree to the 3 rules.
I'm going to be working with tiki for a while, adding new features to meet the needs of the organization I'm developing for and would love to be involved in contributing applicable features and bug fixes to the core tiki.
I don't need SVN commit access... just looking for guidance on how to most quickly integrate with the tiki community :) marclaporte: :-)
well, good first step is what you are doing now....
so about 6.x and 7.x -> 7.x is simply the next version
and after that comes 8.x
new version every 6 months
and versions live generally for about 7 months
expect every third version, which lives 19 months
this duality is to accomodate people that want innovation & features vs people that want stability (less bugs and less moving parts)
xen216 : what is your SourceForge username? xen216: xen216 is my sourceforge username
and my name is Xen :) marclaporte: about which version you should use: depends on your timeline
hi Xen, my name is Marc. Nice to e-meet you :-) xen216: well, the organisation itself is under development and this tiki is a core part in facilitating and defining the structure of the organisation.
nice to meet you as well marclaporte: New features go to trunk (which is slated to be 8.x released in October) xen216: so instability wouldn't be such a bad thing right now, I'd see problems and fix and/or report them I suppose. as the users grow and the site is used more, stability will become more important. marclaporte: Right now, 7x is in Beta, and is stabiliziling
From now, until 7.1, commits on 7.x branch are semi-automgically merged to trunk xen216: ok, I did download the latest 7x beta today. didn't install it yet marclaporte: so it's a nice time to work on 7.x, if you can tolerate some bugs, (and especially if you can fix) and it will become a nice 7.0 with 1-3 weeks
then, 7.1 about a month after that
Are you experienced with SVN? xen216: that sounds like a good match at least for one tiki installation (I'm going to be working with many)
I've done mostly SVN checkouts and haven't done SVN commits since college so been a while. marclaporte: Pretty much all the energy is on 7.x so it's ideal place to be. xen216: ok. that sounds great. marclaporte: and you can have trunk running to commit the new feature, and themes, etc...
A few important pages: http://tiki.org/Model
http://dev.tiki.org/Version+lifecycle xen216: I've read those. marclaporte: Is the project in English? xen216: yes marclaporte: welcome to the community: https://sourceforge.net/users/xen216 :-) xen216: yay! :) thanks! marclaporte: https://dev.tiki.org/Get+code#Using_7.x_branch_from_SVN
The main places to ask questions and share your ideas is here (IRC), and at https://dev.tiki.org/Dev+Mailing+List xen216: alright, I'm going to install that now. marclaporte: Have you worked on other FOSS projects? xen216: ok. I'm on the mailing list.
I've contributed lots of bug fixes to various projects but haven't been an active developer with a project. marclaporte: well, let's break that trend :-) xen216: so there's stuff for me to learn. :) I pretty much only use FOSS. I've been developing a couple projects that I expect to opensource someday into an active project. need to learn how FOSS dev so here I am. woohoo! marclaporte: what are the new features that you have added? (or intend to add?) xen216: well, I've got a perspective wiki plugin that conditionally displays stuff based on the current perspective. it was modeled after the groups plugin. not sure if that one exists in SVN somewhere ***: Jyhem has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) xen216: I'm actually working a lot with workspaces and perspectives. marclaporte: cool. I, for one, am interested to use. I confirm that it doesn't exist yet
architect of workspaces/perspectives is lphuberdeau in case you have questions xen216: also a messagelist plugin, which displays a list of messages that match certain criteria. It was made to create an alert system; to show high priority, broadcasted messages on users' homepage. ***: Jyhem has joined #tikiwiki marclaporte: why will you manage several Tikis? xen216: using the group webmail feature, I didn't find a way to categorize a configured webmail. I wanted to dig to see if that exists and code that if not. marclaporte: groupmail: ask jonnybradley (or on tiki-devel and you'll catch him) xen216: yes. many tikis for sure. that's actually a big topic I want to talk about at somepoint. I expect to be using intertiki and could potentially have hundreds to 1000s of tiki installations to manage. marclaporte: oh
that is a lot :-) xen216: those numbers are being very optimistic :) but starting with 20 as a test case. marclaporte: Ok, so you need to take a look at: http://doc.tiki.org/TRIM ***: chealer has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) xen216: I saw that. and then the other alternative as well. it seems that TRIM will work great if changes are all in SVN, is that correct? marclaporte: yup xen216: like if I were to make custom changes that weren't general or applicable enough to be useful to tiki overall, could I still use TRIM? marclaporte: and it works even better if you can make the changes general purpose and upstream
yes, you could xen216: ok. marclaporte: TRIM is just a wrapper for SVN so SVN can manage merges
There are lots of ways to customize Tiki without changing the code.
And if some are missing, we can work together to add them xen216: awesome! so far I have really enjoyed working with Tiki. I like how it's designed. marclaporte: super!
Did you look at profiles yet? xen216: yes. I tried some out. and much of what I'm doing is creating a custom profile, that I expected I could export and then import into a fresh tiki install marclaporte: Tiki7 has a start of this: http://profiles.tiki.org/Save+current+configuration+as+a+profile xen216: well, create a profile since there is no profile export
oh, very cool marclaporte: since you have many Tikis to manage, you should know that you can apply profiles via TRIM xen216: that's handy marclaporte: yup, especially if you have hundreds of Tikis to manage :-)
I have something in the pipeline that may be relevant to you (planned for Tiki8)
So my general feeling is that Tiki is quite good for hosting companies / wiki farms: http://tiki.org/Hosting+company xen216: might as well talk about it now, I'm setting up a fresh server and each tiki install will be in it's own system/cpanel account. and I'm wondering, if the code for the installs is mostly the same, is there someway to share all the code rather than having multiple copies? If I recall TRIMs alternative addressed that with symlinks marclaporte: why do you want to share the code? xen216: umm, save space? maybe that's not such a big deal. and if I need to make a change to all of them, I'd commit it to SVN, then update with TRIM. marclaporte: The problem with sharing code is that you lose flexibility
Depends on the use case. If you are really sure that each project will have the same code base, that can be OK
But I prefer the flexibility of upgrading sites progressively xen216: yeah, I can see that. marclaporte: With TRIM, if you need to spin off a site, you just do that
be it because the customer wants to move to different hosting, or because of performance reasons
you can easily move things around xen216: right. I guess if disk space is all that's lost, then that's well worth the trade considering that TRIM can apply a change to all of them. marclaporte: Disk space usually won't be the issue, but the number of files could be
also, if you have a security issue, each Tiki is self contained with TRIM. So the attack can't easily spread.
Tiki is good for hosting companies/wiki farms for many reasons, including because it's easy to upgrade because of all-in-one model. But one weakness is that because there are so many features in Tiki, admins can get lost throughout the 1200+ prefs in the admin panel. xen216: that's a requirement, each tiki to be contained and in it's own system account.
I've been swimming in the prefs... I really like the pref search. :) marclaporte: hehe xen216: haven't enabled all the features yet, just going thru them one at a time. marclaporte: So here is the idea for Tiki8: http://dev.tiki.org/Dynamic+Preferences#Custom_admin_panels
So you could restrict which of the 1200 prefs are available xen216: very nice marclaporte: A bit like other systems have a list of accepted modules that they will support/host
I think this is the last important piece for Tiki Farm to fly :-) xen216: oh, that reminds me of a feature I thought about adding. I found myself manually editing some of the stock wiki plugins to make them require validation. I was thinking that there could be ability to set preferences for which plugins require validation or not. (in addition to it's default setting set in the wiki plugin's file) marclaporte: so you want more plugins to require validation? xen216: some of them, I wanted to enable but didn't want all users to be able to use them without validation so I manually edited the plugins file and made it require validation, didn't see another way.
validation --> approval marclaporte: OK, I see
as of now, we only add the approval flag if it's potentially unsafe xen216: in my application, it was considered unsafe for information disclosure. marclaporte: well, then, perhaps we missed some. security a@t tiki.org is the place to report these
about "each tiki install will be in it's own system/cpanel account." -> what software will you use as the control panel? what else will you manage? email accounts? ***: chealer has joined #tikiwiki xen216: well, it was mostly specific to what I was doing with it and not so much a core or general security issue. for this project, I'm dealing heavily with separated groups, workspaces, and perspectives. -: marclaporte wonders if there should be permissions for plugins.... xen216: WHM and cpanel are the control panels. there will be some email accounts, email forwards, and account holders may have some web space also. there is a hosting aspect to this. I was thinking how to make it user friendly in a way that users of each tiki installation have their hosting along side there tiki in a way that protects them from breaking the tiki installation. marclaporte: did you consider other options, such as ISPconfig? xen216: I'm not familiar with that. I will look into it. marclaporte: http://dev.tiki.org/web+hosting+control+panels xen216: I've worked with an ISP for years and cpanel is kinda what has been around. I'm not attached to it, but I could say that many web hosting users are.
I'm for sure open to what works best. marclaporte: Well, you have to weigh all the options
here is why I would look at it:
WHM and cpanel are well known and somewhat universal
people know them
lots of features
reasonable price
but not free beer, and not free speech
if the goal is to have a tight integration between control panel and Tiki, could be better to have FOSS
ex.: it would be nice if Tiki groups could have a mail alias xen216: hmm, I see. very good point. as far as I'm aware, cpanel/whm is the only non-free software in the mix.
wow, thanks for that insight. I didn't think about that yet. marclaporte: My pleasure
There is also: http://suite.tiki.org/ xen216: oh yeah! I saw that and it's really exciting. I actually have proposed that in the roadmap for the project I'm working on. for now, I'm focused on tightening a smaller feature set that works well to get ~20 beta cases using it. marclaporte: Tiki Suite is more geared to SMEs with a Tiki behind the Firewall. But as a second phase, I wanted to have a "web hosting" edition xen216: that's awesome. I like that jabber is in there and the video chat. marclaporte: yeah, pretty exciting :-)
what are the other FOSS apps that you have in mind? xen216: for this project? right now, focus is on tiki as the core and for sake of not being overwhelmed I've haven't thought in specifics yet. I expect other things will express their usefullness as the project unfolds. I do see a chat and video casting component. marclaporte: Right, so BigBlueButton and Kaltura are the obvious, easy additions xen216: I like the sound of that: easy :) marclaporte: For control panels: https://www.ohloh.net/p/compare?project_0=Domain+Technologie+Control&project_1=ISPConfig&project_2=Webmin
My favorite is ISPConfig because it's in PHP, and the license is BSD
And there is an open commit policy
but there are a few good options xen216: nice. I think I've used webmin before. I'm going to try out ISPConfig before I get too deep into the fresh server I setup. marclaporte: It permits Jailed Shell access (which we want for TRIM)
one of the not so good things about ISPConfig (and made them loose brownie points) is that there is no upgrade from v2 to v3
They did a complete rewrite
So for us that start now, it's OK, but for people using before, that's not so cool xen216: I also envision a native mobile app component at some point down the road. I started working on a basic android/iphone app that authenticates with the tiki. I left it to focus on other things but was seeing a mobile component that can interact, maybe get/send messages, send alerts with GPS coordinates, yadda yadda. lots of possibilties there. marclaporte: http://www.ispconfig.org/ispconfig-3/ispconfig-monitor-app-for-android/
xen216 : that is really cool. You will see in Tiki7 that we start a total revamp of both mobile and maps xen216: great marclaporte: just apply this on your Tiki7: http://profiles.tiki.org/Mobile
It's fresh so will be rough, but it will be awesome over time, thanks to jQueryMobile and http://mobileesp.com/ xen216: mobileesp -- that's cool. I've dabbled with jQueryMobile. marclaporte: You'll feel right at home :-)
what timezone are you in? xen216: yay! I'm in PST. Northern California.
what about you? marclaporte: Montreal, EST
I have a TikiCRM meeting in 8 hours, so I'll get some zzzzz xen216: It's great to chat with you. I'm feeling very excited to integrate with the tiki community. thanks a lot. marclaporte: my pleasure
I am the worst ceremony master though
If you had caught another admin, it would have been funnier :-) xen216: is there a hazing ritual? marclaporte: hehe, it involved a magic hat, and a wand xen216: haha. marclaporte: maybe you can pretend next time and catch some :-) xen216: ok. :) ***: Wilkins has joined #tikiwiki coaboa|afk: good morning tikiverse ***: coaboa|afk is now known as coaboa
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xavi1 has joined #tikiwiki xavi1: polom -: xavi1 just did a test upgrade from 6.x to 7.0beta2 and noticed that custom site header content is simply "gone" with no equivalent... :-/ ***: xavi1 has left
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Trebly has joined #tikiwiki Tiki|bot: Recent Bug: Tracker item: #3888 - - Fatal error at doc.tiki.org - http://dev.tiki.org/tiki-view_tracker_item.php?trackerId=5&itemId=3888 ***: ricks99 has joined #tikiwiki
lphuberdeau has joined #tikiwiki CIA-87: tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r34449 10/branches/7.x/templates/tiki-install.tpl: [FIX] Update/fix positions of site header items. ***: dustball has joined #tikiwiki
dustball is now known as cyrusae CIA-87: tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r34450 10/branches/7.x/tiki-install.php: [FIX] Update/fix positions of site header items. cyrusae: hi. anyone here who could give me a helping hand? CIA-87: tikiwiki: 03lphuberdeau * r34451 10/branches/7.x/lib/comments/commentslib.php: [FIX] SQL error cyrusae: i try to get my tiki to work with the AD. when i try to log in via an AD name, it doesnt work, i get a blank page. when i look in the syslog, i get this: "Connect Host: ldap://172.31.20.21:389. Binddn: sonneseb@wiegel.local at line 220 in /var/www/lib/auth/ldap.php" ***: rtdos has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
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Bernard1 has joined #tikiwiki cyrusae: i ask my question again: i try to get my tiki to work with the AD. when i try to log in via an AD name, it doesnt work, i get a blank page. when i look in the syslog, i get this: "Connect Host: ldap://172.31.20.21:389. Binddn: sonneseb@wiegel.local at line 220 in /var/www/lib/auth/ldap.php" ***: rodrigo_sampaio has joined #tikiwiki lphuberdeau: cyrusae, sorry, I can't help you with this one as I've never used the LDAP connector
are you using tiki 6.3? cyrusae: yup lphuberdeau: not getting an error after that?
anything in the php error log? cyrusae: blank page
nope
thats the only thing lphuberdeau: did you enable php error reporting? cyrusae: yup
lphuberdeau: or is there another log than the syslog? (besides that little button on the bottom of every page telling me all the php errors) lphuberdeau: depending on server configurations, apache or php will log the errors as well cyrusae: should be in /var/log, right? lphuberdeau: something like that cyrusae: nope, nothin... apache logs a few things but not the errors and i can't find any php logs at all lphuberdeau: are you any comfortable with code? cyrusae: i can read and change, but not code lphuberdeau: that should do
edit tiki-setup.php
add ini_set('display_errors', 'on'); error_reporting(E_ALL); at the bottom cyrusae: yup done ***: marclaporte has quit IRC (Quit: See you later! http://marclaporte.com) lphuberdeau: try loggin in again cyrusae: blank page. lphuberdeau: no luck
sorry, without an error I can't really help you more than this cyrusae: hm okay lphuberdeau: stick around, someone else might have a clue cyrusae: thanks anyway ***: ricks99 is now known as ricks99|away
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ricks99 has joined #tikiwiki Tiki|bot: New Forum Posts: Anonymous acces to main menu - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=41266 luciash: polom ***: rodrigo_sampaio has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)
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Wilkins has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) luciash: i have trouble using utf-8 db dump from one server on my localhost... all chars are scrambled even after converting via installer... what else can be wrong ?
w00t, just figured out that i got missing $client_charset='utf8'; in my localhost's db/local.php
does it matter if i have on the server $db_tiki='mysql' but on my localhost i have $db_tiki='mysqli' ???
for performance or otherwise CIA-87: tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r34454 10/trunk/lib/wiki-plugins/wikiplugin_trackerfilter.php: [ENH]TRACKEFILTER: possibility to filter interactively on the status ***: daevermann has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) sylvieg: luciash: I think you can delete the line mysql luciash: sylvieg: oh really ? completely ?
it's 6.3 btw sylvieg: we have only one interface - and mysql and mysqli is the same interface
- so far I know ***: ricks99 has joined #tikiwiki luciash: sylvieg: but why you can choose in the installer rom the dropdown then ?
s/rom/from/
afaik mysql is "mysql classic" and mysqli is "mysql improved" chealer: polom
luciash: it only matters for ADOdb. we should basically remove that. luciash: ah, only for adodb, ok, that makes sense
chealer: polom :) CIA-87: tikiwiki: 03sampaioprimo * r34455 10/trunk/lang/de/language.php: German translations done on i18n.tiki.org chealer: sylvieg: do you know the status on text area insert position issues? it seems to be broken in 7.x for MSIE8. CIA-87: tikiwiki: 03sampaioprimo * r34456 10/trunk/lang/fr/language.php: French translations done on i18n.tiki.org ***: lphuberdeau has joined #tikiwiki
CriaCAC has joined #tikiwiki CIA-87: tikiwiki: 03sampaioprimo * r34457 10/branches/7.x/ (. lang/de/language.php lang/fr/language.php): backporting translations done on i18n.tiki.org chealer: sylvieg: I'm specifically talking about plugins CriaCAC: Jesus is love. :D
Somebody belive in Jesus ? ***: CriaCAC has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) luciash: chealer: last time i checked it was crippled for opera too ***: xen216 has joined #tikiwiki chealer: luciash: I see the same. at least you may not need to go to Windows to notice the bug then :-S luciash: :-p ***: rodrigo_sampaio has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out)
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lphuberdeau has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) Tiki|bot: New Forum Posts: Anonymous acces to main menu - https://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=41266
New Forum Posts: External login - https://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=41254
New Forum Posts: Errors converting between wiziwig editor and tikisyntax editor - https://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=41249 ***: lphuberdeau has joined #tikiwiki
rodrigo_sampaio has joined #tikiwiki Tiki|bot: New Forum Posts: Anonymous acces to main menu - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=41266
New Forum Posts: External login - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=41254
New Forum Posts: Errors converting between wiziwig editor and tikisyntax editor - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=41249 luciash: can $dbversion_tiki line be deleted as well in local.php ?
seems it works without ***: rodrigo_sampaio1 has joined #tikiwiki
rodrigo_sampaio has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) lphuberdeau: luciash, has not been used in a few versions now
like 4 luciash: weird i still have it created in Tiki 7 beta 2
is it just for info for with which version user started ?
"installed fresh" lphuberdeau: it's never read at all
never updated either
might just be the installer doing it for no reason luciash: yep, i noticed, just wasn't sure if it's not checked for something
anyway, thanks for confirmation lphuberdeau: feel free to remove it ;) chealer: luciash: unless you're upgrading from an old version, it makes absolutely no difference luciash: k :) upgraded from 4.0 chealer: luciash: no difference at all luciash: how can one check what svn revision is his current svn upped copy of tiki ? impossible as it depends on files ? i tried svn info but it gives comepletely different rev numbers chealer: luciash: it gives comepletely different rev numbers? different from what :-? luciash: different from what last commit on branches/proposals/6.x/ suggests (iinw last one there is r34445 by sylvie) ***: lphuberdeau has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) luciash: but running svn info in my tiki root says Revision: 34457 chealer: luciash: and what do you have? luciash: Last Changed Rev: 34445 chealer: luciash: r34457 and r34445 are the same for branches/proposals/6.x/ luciash: how can it be ?
on my other server where i didn't svn up for a while it says for the same branch: Revision: 34457 and Last Changed Rev: 34445
eh, sorry, wrong copy paste
Revision: 33293 and Last Changed Rev: 33273
why there is not "Last Changed Rev: 34445" as well ? chealer: luciash: r33273 was the last revision that changed branches/proposals/6.x/ as of r33293 luciash: ah, ok, is there some command i could check which commit rev num was the last (freshest) on the branch ?
or i have to go to check my svn commit mails ? chealer: luciash: *was* the last or *is* the last? luciash: is the last (without need to svn up first) chealer: luciash: $ svn info -rHEAD luciash: chealer: great, exactly that ! thanks :) ***: fabricius has joined #tikiwiki fabricius: polom
how is everybody? ***: chealer has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) luciash: hi fabricius
pretty well, and u ? ***: xen216 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) fabricius: ah fine
good that you are online
I have an old problem again => http://foo.bar" target="_blank does not work anymore
I did use that on older Tikisites in menus luciash: fabricius: enable Raw HTML in menus on General admin panel in navigation tab fabricius: was the syntax changed? do you know anythingaboutthat?
ok I check .. brb
luciash: works THANKS -. big hug for u
I do add that onto doc.tiki.org/Menu straight away ***: GillesM has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) luciash: 6.4 props doesn't sort by created and last modif date in tracker
tracker rating doesn't work either
in tracker items list
tiki-view_tracker.php?status=o&find=&trackerId=3&sort_mode=lastModif_asc nor desc works fabricius: luciash: dunno luciash: just "reporting" it fabricius: I meant, I did add the info to themenu doc page ;-) ***: radek82 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
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tikiwiki: 03luciash * r34459 10/trunk/tiki-view_tracker.php: [FIX] tracker items sorted by created and lastModif columns again ***: marclaporte has joined #tikiwiki
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