#tikiwiki 2012-10-02,Tue

(Click on time to select a line by its url)

Who	What	When
amette	yeah, the more different servers get tested the better for the stability of tiki-check.php :)	[00:03]
fabricius	Ok - I think, I get the newest ersion of the file from sourceforge / trunkfolder get it in a few minutes and throw it around reziful the reason is simple: info.tiki.org is a Tiki 6.7 and dev/doc/profiles are Tiki 9.1 refizul: the Chrome issue is mysterious, but Chrome is mysterious in itself -> ask amette and refozu sorry, that I called you rez	[00:04]
Jyhem_laptop	Hi amette ! I'm just looking at tiki-check on a new server of mine	[00:08]
fabricius	ahhh arrgl refizul sorry, that I called you reziful and now refozu, that just was a typo and too quick clicking	[00:08]
Jyhem_laptop	Very useful: apparently, I have some latin1 in mysql. But you write : Exec can potentially be used to execute arbitrary code on your server. Tiki does not need it, you may want to disable it. Yet, it is used	[00:09]
refizul	fabricius: I push this Chrome issue to the mystery todo list, maybe I can figure out the problem at halloween ;-)	[00:10]
fabricius	very good plan	[00:10]
amette	Jyhem_laptop: ah, is it used? I grepped for it quickly, but didn't find it...	[00:11]
Jyhem_laptop	web/lib/equation/class.latexrender.php web/lib/pear/Net/Ping.php: web/lib/pear/PEAR/Builder.php: web/doc/devtools/release.php:	[00:12]
fabricius	refizul: maybe I'll fly by then and say an enlightenment curse	[00:12]
Jyhem_laptop	some might be redefinitions of exec, but probably not all and then there is some shell_exec()	[00:12]
amette	ok, so what should we do? I moved these over from tiki-admin_security.php where they were included... ... they of course are dangerous (if people don't sanitize their input)... ... but if Tiki uses them (and we know we use them responsibly), we shouldn't put "risky" there.	[00:14]
refizul	fabricius: do you own a witches' broom?	[00:16]
fabricius	refizul: that reminds me, that my broom needs a technical inspection before end of next week ... urgent! ... would be distressing to stay at home then	[00:17]
Jyhem_laptop	it seems only web/lib/equation/class.latexrender.php is ours. the others are from pear we need some orange status between ok and risky	[00:17]
refizul	fabricius: technical inspection? Is it a NASA certified broom?	[00:18]
Jyhem_laptop	you dumped your bike for a flying broom ?	[00:19]
fabricius	you know, we are in Germany here ...	[00:19]
amette	Jyhem_laptop: where is class.latexrenderer.php - I don't find it in lib/	[00:19]
refizul	then you need a TUeV certificate...	[00:19]
Tiki\|bot	New Forum Posts: Problem with Plugin Button not passing itemId to URL - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=45276	[00:19]
fabricius	Jyhem_laptop: arrr you know. I never would give away my bike or my laptop if not the live of my kids would depend on it ... even not for a broom only health of kids is worth more	[00:20]
Jyhem_laptop	tiki9 lib/equation/class.latexrender.php	[00:20]
refizul	fabricius: hehe. you can borrow my wife but not my laptop, can't you?	[00:21]
Jyhem_laptop	^ amette	[00:21]
amette	ah, found it, thanks! so, I could update the explanation to say that "if you don't use LaTeX rendering, you may disable this"?!	[00:21]
Jyhem_laptop	refizul: I believe fabricius already dumped hi wife and kept the laptop	[00:22]
fabricius	refizul: indeed ... so I have no wife nor a girlfriend any more since a while, but I can work on the laptop whenever I want and ride the bike for days whenever I get free of work and gett a few bucks together	[00:23]
Jyhem_laptop	I am surprised plugin R (a mod) doesn't use it	[00:23]
amette	bike and laptop is a great combinations - best of real and virtual world :)	[00:23]
fabricius	refizul and Jyhem_laptop yes indeed! dumped the girl and kept the lapttop ... added a bike a few month ago and did ride more than 2000 kilometers ... enjoyed pretty much less stress	[00:24]
Jyhem_laptop	amette: difficult to answer	[00:24]
fabricius	amette: yes and since I ride, I got back a pretty much necessary part of real life experience - have been a bit too much in VL	[00:25]
amette	amette knows exactly what fabricius means	[00:25]
fabricius	yeah and kids and friends are important aswell though	[00:26]
amette	Jyhem_laptop: yeah... difficult... but probably the fairest explanation we can give there?!	[00:26]
Jyhem_laptop	amette : "Some marginal features such as LaTeX rendering use it, but most installations can disable this" opinions ?	[00:27]
amette	yeah, sounds good!	[00:28]
Jyhem_laptop	Best I could find. Should be good enough for now	[00:28]
amette	I will put the same explanation as with curl_multi_exec and stuff yeah, think so too so latex is the only thing using it?	[00:28]
refizul	What would be the appropriate place to store a tiki user's OpenPGP key? The database?	[00:29]
Jyhem_laptop	Hey, i'm not 100% sure either. Also, mods could use it and I have not grepped these	[00:29]
amette	aaah, mods.... ok, I think they are neglectible	[00:29]
Jyhem_laptop	refizul: public key ?	[00:30]
amette	refizul: for what purpose?	[00:30]
Jyhem_laptop	amette: no, I have R mod (for license reasons it's a mod)	[00:30]
refizul	Jyhem_laptop: yes, my suggestion was to send emails encrypted from tiki to the user if he chooses it	[00:30]
amette	refizul: you are Frank?	[00:30]
Jyhem_laptop	refizul: you could even putit in a user tracker. Why not display it ?	[00:31]
amette	Jyhem_laptop: yeah, but mods are out of scope of tiki-check.php, I'd say.	[00:31]
refizul	amette: yes	[00:32]
amette	refizul: if you are going to create a new feature that sends out e-mails encrypted to the users, it imho makes sense to save the GPG key in the database along the user_preferences refizul: welcome to the community, Frank! :) I like your idea btw :)	[00:32]
Jyhem_laptop	Sure, but they mean you might need exec() even if you don't use LaTeX rendering. That is why I kept vague in the sentence	[00:33]
amette	I see	[00:33]
refizul	Jyhem_laptop: display it? This is an option, but first: where to store it. would it affect upgrades in a severe manner if we introduce new fields into the database?	[00:34]
amette	I would add a column to users_users it affects upgrades, but not severly - you will have to create a SQL upgrade script for the installer	[00:35]
Jyhem_laptop	refizul: user_preferences makes more sense than a custom user tracker field refizul: and do it in trunk, not Tiki9	[00:36]
amette	+ +1 eben even even or yes, sorry, tiki_user_preferences not users_users	[00:37]
refizul	yeah . but first I need to set up my environment. actually I try a dry run design, what to do. 1st thinking, 2nd coding ;-)	[00:38]
Jyhem_laptop	Good order :)	[00:41]
marclaporte	refizul: http://dev.tiki.org/item4300	[00:41]
Jyhem_laptop	Not enough people know that :)	[00:42]
marclaporte	Caarrie\|away: can we have the IRC bot give us titles of URLs shared here? It used to do that	[00:43]
refizul	marclaporte: ah, already in the list	[00:49]
marclaporte	I think browsers have become more strict in recent times so we notice it more	[00:49]
refizul	Is the database schema site up to date? Or have there been any dbs changes since Tiki6? https://dev.tiki.org/Database+schema	[00:50]
marclaporte	ish, I'll delete that page :-)	[00:54]
fabricius	hehe loool	[00:54]
marclaporte	refizul: it changes regularly	[00:55]
amette	I should stop trying to do productive stuff for today... getting really hard... cu tomorrow guys	[00:57]
fabricius	cu does anybody have an idea, why my new installation breaks with the same revision like it runs well on demo? pretty much sure that it is no error 40!!	[00:58]
refizul	so, should I look directly into the DB rather then into the documentation?	[01:00]
kstingel	has anyone created a UML description of the DB yet? ... could be handy for a reference point to trace problems	[01:01]
refizul	I guess we need at least two fields. One for the key itself and one flag whether to use it or not.	[01:03]
kstingel	heh heh .... I'm planning an "Advanced Tiki Administration" site to follow up on Rick's books ... describing what is stored where would possibly be a good starting point ... maybe after lunch :)	[01:04]
refizul	tiki administration teaching video series - now in your favourite movie theatre	[01:06]
marclaporte	ktsingel: Are you familiar with pref report?	[01:07]
fabricius	refizul: don't lough, I actually am keen on using the new jquery screencast feature for exactly that just cannot get the f****** installation running ... a myterious bug, which I cannot reproduce at demo	[01:08]
kstingel	errm ... pref report? that would be a "no" methinks lol	[01:10]
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kstingel	refizul: if you wanna convert the stuff I put up to video, go for it ... I'm camera shy	[01:15]
refizul	kstingel: we can push Palpatine as frontman	[01:16]
kstingel	I don't even know how to make videos for the web ... do I use my tablet to record my PC screen as I do a task? now there's a scary thought	[01:19]
marclaporte	kstingel: http://dev.tiki.org/Preferences+report refizul: you will need this: http://dev.tiki.org/Creating+New+Preferences	[01:31]
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refizul	marclaporte: this is for the admin settings, isn't it? yes, we need changes there, to.	[01:58]
marclaporte	refizul: yes, so each feature should be optional, so you need to add a check box somewhere and that is how to do it	[01:59]
refizul	ok - seems to be a lot of design and draft to to :-) something else: the search field at doc.tiki.org disappears when I login, an reappears when I logout.	[02:05]
marclaporte	say I do a checkout with savn, but then I want to delete just the non-modified files, is there a way? say I do a checkout with svn, but then I want to delete just the non-modified files, is there a way? So If I have a custom theme or some custom files, only that should remain after the removal	[02:11]
refizul	keep the ones you just modified after checkout only?	[02:12]
marclaporte	that would be a bonus 1- keeping the files that have nothing to do with the checkout 2- leaving diffs for the modified files	[02:12]
refizul	I can imagine a hack with ``find'' and timestamp or a 2nd parallel checkout and a recursive diff	[02:13]
marclaporte	I like that second idea better :-)	[02:16]
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marclaporte	refizul: I added this: https://dev.tiki.org/tiki-pagehistory.php?page=Database+Schema+Upgrade&history_offset=1&diff_style=sidediff&diff_style=sidediff&show_all_versions=y&compare=Compare&newver=0&oldver=26&paginate=on&history_pagesize=50 following your question on DB format	[02:19]
kstingel	what does Sea Surfing (CSRF) detected. Operation blocked. mean? ... what do I need to fix ... browser = Chrome, Tiki 9.1 was trying to do a rollback on an edit	[02:24]
marclaporte	don't user several Windows	[02:28]
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refizul	I start to become completely confused. That's the point for a break. I'll be back.	[02:43]
kstingel	opened Opera and got same error ... so I just did the override via a new edit ... will clean caches (Tiki and all browsers) and see if that solves problem is not a major problem (for me) ... just a "new to me" error ahh ... solved it .... I was trying to be clever and reading images from a live site .... Tiki smacked my fingers for it	[02:50]
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marclaporte	refizul: someone seems to have fixed the search box on doc.tiki.org ?	[03:11]
kstingel	how do I go about adding previously (FTP transferred) uploaded images to Tiki 9.1 file galleries? ... when I upload an image into the gallery folder, Tiki encodes the image name in the Directory ... I want it saved as 'filename.type' so I can easily identify the files when viewed with FTP	[03:12]
marclaporte	kstingel: there is a way to get Tiki to get files from the server instead of uploading There is no option to save filename.type as this could be a security vulnerability also, there can be two files with the same name	[03:14]
kstingel	marclaporte: do tell, that sounds like exactly what I'm looking for	[03:16]
marclaporte	tiki-admin.php?page=fgal Batch uploading	[03:17]
kstingel	basically, I have my images already in their folder .... but when I add them into galleries so I can access them easily, Tiki encodes the name of the file	[03:17]
marclaporte	Hpw about WebDAV? http://doc.tiki.org/WebDAV About an "Advanced Tiki Administration site to follow up on Rick's books " -> Sometimes, documentation is necessary because UI is bad or because inline help/tips is lacking. Can you help with inline help/tips to reduce the need for a book?	[03:18]
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refizul	marclaporte: no, at the moment I log in, the search box disappears. I tested it not a minute ago. I tested it just a minute ago.	[03:35]
marclaporte	ok, try again	[03:36]
refizul	now it is visible what did you do?	[03:37]
marclaporte	ok, tks. It was using the feature permitting to only show to Anonymous Which is useful if you want to show a different module when logged on	[03:37]
refizul	ah - yeah, I know the usecase from unix rights. allowed to access by group but forbidden to access by owner this looks odd, but sometimes...	[03:39]
Caarrie\|sleeping	http://dev.tiki.org/tiki-tracker_rss.php?trackerId=5 is no longer parsing correctly	[03:41]
refizul	there's still the cookie security issue on my todo list	[03:42]
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kstingel	marclaporte: I'm happy to help with docs as I can, but most of what I intend for my site isn't even on doc.tiki.org yet ... I wouldn't know where to put it I'm basically just going to add pages to my site as I find advanced admin jobs I can complete for myself ... then once I have a decent amount of content there, I was planning on unleashing my gleaned knowledge on the unwary public ... maybe it will help someone else hmm .... maybe I should rename it from "Advanced Tiki" to OCD Tiki (since I'm a bit OCD when it comes to managing my Tiki install I notice that when I hover over many of the help icons in the Admin area ... the descriptions are either non-existent or very vague ... I'm hoping I can deduce some more substantial tips for those areas, then I can add them into d.t.o	[03:46]
marclaporte	kstingel: that's the thing Instead of adding to doc.tiki.org or anywhere, can you improve the description in the application? It's quite easy: http://dev.tiki.org/Creating+New+Preferences	[04:03]
kstingel	most likely ... as long as someone explains just how I do that ;)	[04:04]
marclaporte	And also: http://dev.tiki.org/Adding+a+preference+to+an+admin+panel And the complete list is at http://demo.tiki.org/trunk/prefreport.htm	[04:06]
kstingel	so, basically once I have a better description ... I just open the relevant file ... look for that particular preference and edit that line?	[04:07]
marclaporte	yup!	[04:07]
kstingel	then upload my 'fix' via SVN to the repository	[04:08]
marclaporte	yup :-)	[04:08]
kstingel	too easy	[04:08]
marclaporte	And write a description which is suitable for search engine results You know in tiki-admin.php, when someone search for something, the pref that comes up should be fairly descriptive even without the context of the admin panel (well, there is a link to its context, but you see what I mean) There are over 1000 prefs If we can get the descriptions to a higher level, it reduces support issues and documentation need	[04:09]
kstingel	yup ... it helps if the description isn't exactly the same text as the search phrase	[04:11]
marclaporte	for example, you were looking for Batch upload So now that you found it, just add description and keyword that would have made sense to you and let you find it	[04:11]
kstingel	yeah ... I'd seen it before, but I didn't understand how it worked .... I thought it meant I had to have an archive to be read	[04:12]
marclaporte	https://dev.tiki.org/Creating+New+Preferences#keywords Also, if a preference is misplaced in the admin panel, you can easily move it or add an extra copy of it at a place that would have made sense for you	[04:12]
kstingel	it sort of works the way I wanted ... I created a folder: batch_upload in the Tiki root folder (because I'm bound to have forgotten what I called it in 6 months) and I'm saving my uploaded images into fg_images (because 'images' doesn't work anymore with the new rewrite rules) ... Tiki reads my upload folder and shows available files, but then when I open explorer (I'm playing with AAMPS... ...localhost so I could use Softaculous to install) .... the filenames are still in gobble-de-gook ... and it removes the original file from the upload folder	[04:19]
luatdo	joined #tikiwiki bonjour monsieur marclaporte	[04:21]
kstingel	for some of my plugins, I need the files accessible by their names, not their fileIDs (because the files uploaded are the images for the plugin) and I'd also like to find a way to be able to have internal Tiki images available in a gallery ... so that images used by plugins can be easily exported from one location, rather than having to trawl through the different folders to gather them up	[04:24]
luatdo	who can help me?hix hix hix hi	[04:32]
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fabricius	polom good morning tikiverse	[09:08]
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luciash	polom	[10:53]
fabricius	wolod	[10:59]
luciash	:)	[11:03]
fabricius	:-) how r wife and son?	[11:04]
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jonnyb	joined #tikiwiki Ahoy hoy! (a.k.a. polom)	[11:32]
fabricius	ahoi jonny, nice to see you jonnyb: ;-)	[11:35]
jonnyb	hi fabricius	[11:36]
Tiki\|bot	New Commit: jonnybradley committed r43239 to the Tiki SVN, changing 1 files - http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki?view=rev&revision=43239	[11:46]
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fabricius	arrgl again ... managed to export/import large db with mysqldumper ... trying to extract a Tiki .zip file now with a cpanel-filemanager and it breaks after 24MB wasting time now	[12:35]
jonnyb	stinky! you kept files in the database? :( probably better to convert them to filesystem storage before upgrading imho	[12:36]
kstingel	I know about using -----Version----- in Tiki pages for alternate content .... is there a similar function for ----Structure----, or would I need to write separate copies of relevant pages for each structure?	[12:37]
fabricius	looool jonnyb thanks for the hint :-DDDD hi kstingel - the book project?	[12:38]
jonnyb	too late by the sound of it fabricius, sry	[12:39]
fabricius	hehe no problem	[12:39]
kstingel	I have some data that is only relevant online, I don't want it included in the ePub structure .... just thinking it would be nice to be able to automate the filter :)	[12:39]
jonnyb	kstingel: not as far as i know, but i don't use structures much can't you use css for that? (somehow)	[12:39]
fabricius	but all I try for hours is to get the f*** installation copied as it is and then move the files to the directory	[12:40]
luciash	jonnyb: ahoj ahoj :)	[12:40]
fabricius	I just promised not to work on the original running productive instance	[12:40]
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jonnyb	hi luciash	[12:43]
luciash	fabricius: it would be much slicker with ssh access, would not it ?	[12:43]
kstingel	thanks jonnyb ....I'll tinker css could work in theory, just load it into a div.web then hide div.web in epub.css .... but the data would still be there taking up space in the file ... I'm looking for a filter to remove the web-only data meh, when is missing - write an extension :D	[12:44]
fabricius	YES! indeed it WOULD be luciash and jonnyb :-D I am pretty much sure, I would have been finished that since aged, if I had -aged + ages	[12:44]
	AHHHHH jonnyb help!!! I made a really really really plain installation NEW folder NEW database SVN checkout and still damaged maybe the default settings are changed? but even in tiki-admin.php, when I do some setting, they are not saved arrrgl what happens here?	[12:54]
kstingel	FF doesn't wanna play nice tonight ... CZ is jumpy, back after I download a new (standalone) client	[12:59]
jonnyb	fabricius: is there a url i can try? maybe it's a browser issue somehow	[13:07]
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fabricius	yes -> q	[13:13]
kstingel	before I quit CZ ... is there anyone here familiar with KVirc? ... I'm a bit lost on setting it up	[13:18]
jonnyb	what is CZ? (guess that means i'm not familiar :) )	[13:18]
kstingel	ChatZilla it's the client I've been using	[13:19]
jonnyb	oh right - and the other thing? kvirc is another client?	[13:19]
kstingel	yup ...just downloaded a free standing client because CZ plugin for FF keeps eating all my sys resources ... FF is overly hungry as a whole I've also downloaded Android IRC so I can connect portably, but I'll set that up after I get my 'main' client connected	[13:20]
fabricius	I use thunderbird now (after CZ) quite fine no switch of software anymore brb	[13:24]
luciash	irssi ftw :) kstingel: back in time i used konversation, was quite fine irc GUI client to use, if you are not happy with kvirc u can give it a shot	[13:31]
kstingel	luciash: is kconversation available for Windows? it sounds like a Linux IRC client	[13:35]
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kstingel	managed to connect with KVirc, so leavingCZ now left #tikiwiki	[13:41]
luciash	kstingel1: ah, sorry, yes, linux only... it sounded like u r on linux, cause kvirc originates from KDE/linux environment too iirc	[13:44]
kstingel1	linux is not an option atm ... I broke my box and don't have a spare (yet) to reinstall ... have Windon't 7 & Android avail atm, Android is mostly for testing my ePub builds back soon, need to reconnect left #tikiwiki	[13:46]
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Tiki\|bot	New Commit: yonixxx committed r43240 to the Tiki SVN, changing 1 files - http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki?view=rev&revision=43240	[13:56]
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fabricius	rehi	[14:22]
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Bsfez	Hi Torsteen	[14:43]
fabricius	hi Berni	[14:44]
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jonnyb	are dynamic lists working for everyone else in 9.x? mine seems to have been broken for quite a while, but maybe i'm not setting it up right...	[15:06]
kstingel	jonnyb: how do I check if mine are working? not sure I have any d-lists currently	[15:10]
jonnyb	it's a very fiddly tracker thing, was only if you had one working already so don't worry (but thanks for asking)	[15:11]
kstingel	lol, there doesn't seem to be much I can actually help you guys with ... but I always try if I can	[15:12]
jonnyb	:)	[15:13]
kstingel	hmm .... my shout for coffee ... back in a bit :D "it's the little things that count" nods head in knowing manner	[15:13]
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kstingel	cafe for all :)	[15:22]
luciash	:)	[15:24]
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jonnyb	need food, bbl	[15:26]
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fabricius	any coffee left? need a cup	[15:36]
kstingel	fabricius: cafe smile	[15:37]
fabricius	thx kstingel	[15:45]
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kstingel	ooh look at dat ... I have a shadow :-D	[16:04]
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jonnyb	hi rodrigoprimo - long time, no C	[16:05]
KStingel_Prime	hehehe now I can be in 2 places at once	[16:05]
jonnyb	magic? Jyhem: think i found what's stopping trackers save first click... http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki?view=revision&revision=42370 (look familiar?)	[16:06]
rodrigoprimo	hi jonnyb! yes, indeed. how are you? I'm back working full time in the company I started with some friends a few years ago. that is why I'm not very active in the community these months.	[16:07]
kstingel	sort of ... I managed to work out Android IRC, so I can connect from the Prime	[16:07]
jonnyb	rodrigoprimo: i fixed (possibly) a very old bug you submitted - about img plugin not working with src with accents in	[16:08]
rodrigoprimo	jonnyb: thanks! I got an email notification about that.	[16:09]
jonnyb	i just removed the htmlentities calls - shouldn't have been there in the first place imho	[16:09]
Tiki\|bot	New Commit: jonnybradley committed r43241 to the Tiki SVN, changing 1 files - http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki?view=rev&revision=43241	[16:21]
	New Commit: jonnybradley committed r43242 to the Tiki SVN, changing 1 files - http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki?view=rev&revision=43242	[16:26]
jonnyb	jonnyb just loves svn tree conflicts	[16:33]
Tiki\|bot	New Commit: jonnybradley committed r43243 to the Tiki SVN, changing 5 files - http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki?view=rev&revision=43243	[16:36]
kstingel	lol identity crisis over time to go shoot the possums parading on my roof ...or at least shine torch on 'em and scare 'em over to some other roof	[16:48]
jonnyb	polom possums	[16:55]
kstingel	was worse than living in multi story units ... at least unit have some sound insulation between levels sigh possum party on roof is like mini avalanch, and is right over my head at least it was ... I scared 'em off heh heh	[16:59]
marclaporte	joined #tikiwiki	[17:13]
Tiki\|bot	New Commit: jonnybradley committed r43244 to the Tiki SVN, changing 7 files - http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki?view=rev&revision=43244	[17:13]
.... (idle for 15mn)
	New Forum Posts: Tiki 9.1 Installation problem: SQLSTATE[HY000] [2003] Can't connect to MySQL Server - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=6&comments_parentId=45284	[17:28]
	New Commit: jonnybradley committed r43245 to the Tiki SVN, changing 1 files - http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki?view=rev&revision=43245	[17:41]
.... (idle for 19mn)
Harman	joined #tikiwiki hiii everyone	[18:00]
fabricius	hi Harm	[18:04]
Harman	whats up man hold on letme get some coke and chips	[18:15]
radek82	joined #tikiwiki	[18:21]
Harman	hello again @fabricius... so i have to do server upgrade next month before i put my app up on google play which would be using mobile module website version plus i have volunteers working on content over next few months what vps configuration should i go for??	[18:26]
fabricius	^^ hmm	[18:28]
Harman	like how much ram, cpu? i need 10-15gb disc space for databsase expected size over next few motnhs..	[18:29]
fabricius	VPS = Vapor Phase Soldering hehe kidding	[18:29]
Harman	lol, made me think for a second! http://www.knownhost.com/vps_packages.html and http://www.tmzvps.com/managed-vps are my two options for now	[18:30]
fabricius	I work with share hosting - 100GB space - unlimited subaccounts - ssh-access - 24hours free phone support (landline number) .... a VPS for me would be just an additional option for BBB, LDAP, Kaltura at times some projects would pay that for at least two years or so for Tiki you need not a VPS and if you take a VPS you have to maintain it or to hire somebode to maintain the server	[18:31]
kstingel\|hacking	how simple would it be to set up a dedicated Tiki machine (Linux OS) on an old 64Gb laptop (2 Gb RAM)? ... and can anyone suggest a specific Linux OS? ... I haven't played in Linux since RedHat 9, so please be nice :)	[18:34]
fabricius	If I would be you ... except you are a linux/network geek anyway ... I would concentrate on the project itself, not on the Server	[18:34]
Harman	they said its managed vps so i dont have to worry and just play with my cpanel that they will give	[18:34]
fabricius	so it is a share hosting or a mange server manage arrrgl again	[18:35]
kstingel	managed :)	[18:35]
fabricius	so it is a shared hosting or a managed server thx kstingel	[18:35]
kstingel	yw	[18:35]
Harman	just look for yourself http://www.tmzvps.com/managed-vps lol the thing is once i launch the android app followed by other platform apps, ppl are gonna jump in and my shared account will just die its first of a kind project i am working on, just wanna make sure it doesnt crash right when its introduced to ppl	[18:36]
fabricius	kstingel: Ubuntu 12.04 with GnomeShell and using the Shell extension to make it a usable operating system (Unity and a plain GnomeShell3 seem to be for tablets, but nor for working PCs) kstingel: then a lampp stack and Tiki into opt/lampp/htdocs/whatsoever_subfolder database in lampp-phpMyadmin and give Tiki the creentials staqrt browser -> localhost/path_to_tikiroot_after_htdocs dunno ex: localhost/whatsoever_subfolder all explained in xampp/lampp but unix ... if not a geek, take ubuntu and very nice for webdevelopment is connecting to server from the desktop and the shell	[18:37]
kstingel	fabricius: other half is currently using my old WinXP3 laptop ... since I can't get the SPs to do a (badly needed) reformat, I'm thinking I should make myself a dedicated 'multiTiki' machine ... then I can do my scripts and stuff on Windon't 7 (where my toolset is) but have my test setup(s) on the Linux box	[18:41]
fabricius	no need for WebDav no need for putty anymore	[18:41]
kstingel	running dedicated Tiki-box also means I can have versions 6 - 10 running at same time ... so can easily test and backport any new scripts I was never able to get WebDAV working ... and I don't understand Putty anyway	[18:43]
Harman	where did u all guys learn programming... like college etc?	[18:43]
j0n3_	joined #tikiwiki	[18:44]
kstingel	trawling Google when I tried something that didn't work as expected? ... then a coupla Uni courses (which basically revised what I'd self-taght) taught even one of these days, I'm gonna self-tort me to spellllll	[18:45]
Harman	wow that was good, haha this time u might wanna refer an english book	[18:46]
kstingel	English is my first (and only (spoken) language) .... spelled, well that's different matter ... I have a customised language for that and it haz it'z own dikshunairy :D	[18:47]
fabricius	Once I switched from Win7 (the best Windows ever just besides XP) to Ubuntu, I never for not even a second wanted to switch back some times I have to research to do smart stuff, like today FTP with my local shell from my server to a customers server, because there the script-running-time is too slow to unzip but what if I had still Win? No research? yes. because of no such smart triangle shell thingo I you use legal gimp instead of hacked photoshop, legal Open/Libre Office instead of MSOffice, Thunderbird instead of Outlook etc. you just move your profiles including mails and adressbooks and continue work like ever a bit learning, some hard days maybe from time to time, but every day deep breath of freedom for what you need Win? you are architect and have a construction office with CAD machine? Ok you ne to run this software soon I will make up a few screencasts to demonstrate how EASY Ubuntu Linux is these days thanks to Tikis new screencast feature	[18:48]
kstingel	fabricius: I looked at Ubuntu 12.04 ... site says there's a dual boot option for Windon't ... is it any good? I have some Windon't tools that I don't have Linux replacements for (yet) so I can't drop Windon't completely adds it to personal Wishlist	[18:51]
fabricius	kstingel: I starte with this aswell started it is fine - a good start	[18:53]
kstingel	and having a Linux box again would make writing Android Apps easier	[18:53]
Harman	linux is good, fast.. if microsoft were like google back then, things would have been different	[18:55]
fabricius	kstingel: if you have your Win7 as "backup" for used-to-work, but same time move app per app to use in linux, after a while you will not return to Win and finally you will get a new harddrive and install just only linux use the old one as kind of backup	[18:55]
kstingel	fabricius: I have 3 hard drives I can already convert from Windon't ... one of them is old 320 Gb Vista drive that I can't connect to MB (no more slots)	[18:57]
Harman	what do u guys do for living apart from developing tiki	[18:58]
kstingel	can I use Linux for Game development, or would I need to keep Windon't to move in that direction (some time next year)? Harman: I'm on a 'visually impaired' Pension, so I just amuse self by "tweaking" Tiki	[18:59]
fabricius	hmmm not my focus, can't tell ... must ask s.b. myself moment, my housemaid knows more	[19:00]
kstingel	lol ... I can't see to walk downstairs with confidence, but I sit 50cm away from screen and tinker to heart's content for hours at a time	[19:02]
fabricius	hmmm he sais you just nee a c++ framework / IDE, which definitely exist for linux try the games on windows machines or windows in VM	[19:02]
kstingel	mind you, I'm 5'4", so steps are slightly further away from eyes than screen	[19:02]
Tiki\|bot	New Commit: robertplummer committed r43246 to the Tiki SVN, changing 1 files - http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki?view=rev&revision=43246	[19:04]
kstingel	sigh and I had to drop Uni just before I was due to commence C++ course -- luckily I'd already bought the text book	[19:04]
fabricius	so I followed now the hint of amette (finally after two days or so) and carefully removed the "d" from my keyboard to clean it ..... seems to work	[19:04]
Harman	lol which is better company... google, microsoft or apple?	[19:05]
kstingel	hmm ... I think maybe I need to re-paint my 'E' ... it has half a letter and an orange back-light Google Apple is too locked down for broadrange development	[19:06]
Harman	yeah i love google, so much sooo for free and open-sourced	[19:07]
kstingel	Microsoft is just completely broken, so there's little point in developing for it	[19:07]
fabricius	Harman: google is NOT for free!	[19:09]
kstingel	and upgrading an OS License should never cost you $1000.00 especially when the upgrade is forced because they cease support for your preferred version	[19:09]
fabricius	Harman: you just pay differently	[19:09]
kstingel	fabricius: maybe not, but it's a whole lot cheaper than the alternatives	[19:09]
fabricius	kstingel: i do not believe that an upgrade costs $1000,- ahhh os$ ... might be different exchange course ?? kstingel: it is cheaper by means of money kstingel: and it is more accessible ... so far	[19:10]
kstingel	it does if you upgrade from XP to Win 7 only to find out that you m=now have to upgrade Office as well :(	[19:11]
fabricius	kstingel: as long as the licences stay open guaranteed for ever arrrgl you have NOT to!!!! just use OpenOffice or LibreOffice or Koffice Use OpenSource	[19:11]
redflo	joined #tikiwiki	[19:12]
kstingel	I did at the time .... I needed Publisher for a course I was dooing	[19:12]
fabricius	move all software to OpenSource and finally you realise, that you need no windows anymore no more licence fees	[19:12]
kstingel	I still have Office installed on this machine ... but most of the time I do my stuff in Open Office 3 now	[19:13]
fabricius	yeahh	[19:13]
Harman	i have open office in my android phone	[19:14]
kstingel	I'm still waiting for an Open Source ePub3 writer .... for the moment I'm stuck with using Sigil to compile ePub2, and dropping into In-Design to test out ePub3 builds	[19:14]
Harman	use office 2010 for win vista(bad windows), win8 upgrade maybe, they said pay 30-40$ for upgrade to windows8	[19:15]
fabricius	I have now safari and heidisql under linux and I think I will get IE aswell ... using wine ... specifically I use "play on linux"	[19:15]
kstingel	then again ... any ePub3 reader (other than Adobe Digital Editions) would be nice too	[19:15]
fabricius	vista is one of the worst windows, nearly as bad as ME	[19:15]
kstingel	hence the upgrade to w7	[19:16]
Harman	yeah win8 is coming, going to it now, vista is heavy on resources	[19:16]
fabricius	I think for a start it would be good for you to have a dual boot to have all necessary windows apps straight working	[19:16]
kstingel	... much better than V, but still way too expensive to maintain long term	[19:17]
fabricius	but then VM or native linux alternatives only a few things where you do not find nice easy to use professional linux alternatives But I have to continue my work ... getting late	[19:17]
kstingel	Photoshop 6 confused me, so I've dropped that ... but I'm still aclimatising to Gimp	[19:18]
fabricius	i stay here anyway .... just to mention if I do need longer time to answer ;-)	[19:18]
kstingel	Firewoks 6 is fallback for if I can't figure out the Gimp method	[19:19]
fabricius	any questions to gimp? basic stuff I know ... but for more advanced stuff there are lots of tutorials out there the three windos are a bit confusing - they will mostlikely change that in the next major version arrrgl now my "w" hangs	[19:19]
kstingel	I don't know offhand of a Dreamweaver alternative (yet) ... but then, I only use that to do quick compliance checks and site wide link replacements (else I usually use) UEStudio ... which is also available on Linux	[19:20]
fabricius	seems that I have to clean the whole keyboard I never started with dreamweaver .... before I was that far, I started to realise that I didn't need it anymore	[19:20]
kstingel	nothing I can think of atm ... my main dillemma at present in converting from 'px' to typographic units ... converting HTML to OOdoc for publication trying to get textboxes with left-icon and background colour to show correctly in OpenOffice writer I cant work out how to make the box ... box needs to resize vertically, but icon shouldn't resize ... I tried to do as 'group' but then if text is too long, icon stretches with box-height	[19:22]
lphuberdeau	joined #tikiwiki	[19:33]
fabricius	does anybody have any experience with lftp on Linux? I need to login to my webserver via shell (ssh) and ftp-send a file from there to a customers server have installed lftp, but I did not yet manage to correctly connect need a hand anybody could help?	[19:46]
..... (idle for 21mn)
refizul	fabricius: what exactly is the problem with the connect? login fail?	[20:08]
Tiki\|bot	New Commit: jonnybradley committed r43247 to the Tiki SVN, changing 1 files - http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki?view=rev&revision=43247	[20:12]
lphuberdeau	FTP is never required, get your clients to use SFTP (free with SSH)	[20:16]
Tiki\|bot	New Commit: lphuberdeau committed r43249 to the Tiki SVN, changing 1 files - http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki?view=rev&revision=43249 New Commit: robertplummer committed r43248 to the Tiki SVN, changing 1 files - http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki?view=rev&revision=43248	[20:18]
	New Commit: jonnybradley committed r43250 to the Tiki SVN, changing 5 files - http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki?view=rev&revision=43250	[20:23]
fabricius	hehe lphuberdeau you're damned al'right ... but for me it is just a tiny project and I am pretty sure not to get them anywhere else at this point	[20:25]
lphuberdeau	all ftp servers are crap, it's ahorrible protocol	[20:26]
fabricius	refizul: the script running time seems to be too short to unzip via cpanel-file-manager lphuberdeau refizul I want to send the unzipped folder directly from server to server .... upload from desktop needs too much time or is there another way to unzip? it is horrible timewaste right now	[20:27]
refizul	ssh -> unzip -> ftp -- should work	[20:29]
jonnyb	fabricius: you have ssh? scp is the one i tihnk	[20:29]
fabricius	refizul: yes, if there would be ssh access	[20:29]
refizul	I don't know whether unzip command via ftp is possible	[20:29]
jonnyb	is cpanel?	[20:29]
fabricius	yes! cpanel	[20:29]
jonnyb	some cpanels have a secure copy (scp) admin bit	[20:29]
fabricius	i check	[20:30]
_qP	joined #tikiwiki	[20:30]
jonnyb	it's really fiddly getting the params all right at once, i find	[20:30]
refizul	fabricius: you said "my webserver via shell (ssh)" - can you unzip it there and continue with ftp from there?	[20:31]
fabricius	refizul: I have unzipped on my server - I have shell access on my server - I have lftp installed, but never used - need a hand how to setup the push command in the right way on the other side the cpanel seems to be a micro cpanel I do not find any configuration for ftp users so I tried the cpanel user technically it should be all setup to send from my server via ftp to the other one, which I can trigger from my local machine via shell problem is, that I never did before and I am not sure if the path is wrong, the commands parameters or the user right now I have this: lftp -e 'put ./tiki-6.7; bye' -u cpaneluser,cpanelpasswort ftp.kundeseinedomain.org	[20:32]
xavi	joined #tikiwiki	[20:35]
fabricius	(kundeseinedomain.org=example.com=customerhisdomain.org)	[20:36]
jonnyb	ah, it was the cpanel "https://rocket.gnservers.com:2083/frontend/rvskinlight/backup/fullbackup.html" thing i was thinking about but it might be a good way (if the destination is lots bigger than the source, of course!)	[20:39]
xavi	polom	[20:40]
jonnyb	oops, didn't mean to post the whole link in (stupid clever clipboard) hi xavi	[20:40]
xavi	fabricius: I did read at the irc log that you were asking for lftp.... fabricius: see http://russbrooks.com/2010/11/19/lftp-cheetsheet hi jonnyb	[20:40]
fabricius	I have the command from there - thx xavi	[20:41]
xavi	ok	[20:41]
fabricius	as said, I am uncertain about path or user ...cpanel seems not to have an ftp-user option, so I take the cpanel user	[20:42]
xavi	Jyhem_laptop: PluginR uses exec indeed	[20:44]
fabricius	HAH idea!!!	[20:44]
refizul	fabricius: I guess mput instead of put handles more than one file	[20:46]
fabricius	thx, Iĺl try	[20:46]
	hmm I tried now the same connection than with my filesystem-ftp ... cpanel.domain.org and I tried ftp.cpanel.org <=> lftp: ftp.cpanel.evidem.org: Name or service not known and ftp://cpanel.domain.org <=> no feedback from shell (sry above misstyped here and forgot once domain)	[20:51]
refizul	fabricius: maybe you need subdirs? then you can use a recursive mirror command instead of put or mput: mirror -R mput is for more than one file with wildcard notation	[21:00]
fabricius	refizul: could you type me an example please?	[21:02]
KStingel_Prime	joined #tikiwiki	[21:02]
Jyhem_laptop	xavi: I know, I checked. So does pluginRR. But amette can't mention pluginR (and pluginRR) because most people don't have them.	[21:04]
refizul	interactive: 1st: lftp ftp.example.com	[21:04]
fabricius	refizul: is thia a good fedback: cd ok, cwd=/public_html ?	[21:05]
refizul	2nd (untested): mirror -R localpath ftp.example.com/path/	[21:05]
Jyhem_laptop	polom	[21:06]
refizul	you are remote in public_html then seems ok	[21:06]
fabricius	should I type "mirror" aswell?	[21:07]
refizul	yes, the command name is mirror the option -R is recursive	[21:08]
KStingel_Prime	joined #tikiwiki	[21:09]
refizul	and if the uploads breaks, the option -c tries to continue without repeating to upload existing files I don't know whether remote path is absolute or relative to cwd	[21:09]
fabricius	Interrupt but after command before:	[21:10]
changi	jonnyb: http://framework.zend.com/manual/1.12/en/coding-standard.coding-style.html see Funcions and Methods	[21:11]
fabricius	lftp cpanel.evidem.org:~>	[21:11]
KStingel_Prime	just checking who I am :)	[21:11]
fabricius	you are KStingel_Prime refizul: now I got this:mirror: Login failed: 530 Login authentication failed 1 error detected	[21:11]
kstingel	cool, I have correct accounts open on expected devices ... now can go walk-about	[21:12]
xavi	Jyhem_laptop: yes, I know. this is just to support your idea and what you said to amette (vague-enough short sentences is a good approach)	[21:14]
KStingel_Prime	is hard to get used to white text on black ... Windon't is black on white	[21:14]
fabricius	I ge refizul: I get this far: put: /www/htdocs/XXXXXX/tiki-6.7: Is a directory	[21:15]
refizul	try: mirror -R localpath/ It seems you do not need a remote URL if you are logged on already	[21:16]
jonnyb	hi changi - i'm sure that's changed, but will try and remember in the future! :)	[21:17]
fabricius	you mean the real local path -> ./tiki-6.7 <-?	[21:18]
lphuberdeau	left #tikiwiki	[21:18]
fabricius	some login failed feedback	[21:18]
Tiki\|bot	New Commit: marclaporte committed r43251 to the Tiki SVN, changing 1 files - http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki?view=rev&revision=43251	[21:19]
fabricius	I think I need to mention usr, pwd	[21:19]
refizul	example for syntax: lftp -e "mirror -cR -i .*.dem$ /home/gameserver/server1/cstrike/ /httpdocs/sourcetv_demos;quit" -u ftp_user:ftp_password ftp_host example interactive -- 1st) lftp -u ftp_user:ftp_password ftp_host 2nd) mirror -R /home/gameserver/server1/cstrike/maps/ /httpdocs/cstrike/maps lftp -e 'mirror -cR ./tiki-6.7; bye' -u cpaneluser,cpanelpasswort ftp.kundeseinedomain.org or: lftp -e 'mirror -cR ./tiki-6.7/; bye' -u cpaneluser,cpanelpasswort ftp.kundeseinedomain.org should work IMHO but the cwd is wrong then lftp -e 'cd public_html;mirror -cR ./tiki-6.7/; bye' -u cpaneluser,cpanelpasswort ftp.kundeseinedomain.org	[21:19]
fabricius	refizul: ahhhh something happens!!! Getting directory contents (0) it is making data connection, negotiating, delaying before reconnect: (seconds) and again and again	[21:24]
refizul	open a 2nd ftp connection and check whether there are files uploaded	[21:27]
fabricius	but I understood: command -parameter 'cd local remote;bye' -u user:pwd Host nothing uploaded can I stop it in the shell ? (its a loop) hmm i close it	[21:28]
refizul	yes, ctrl+c lftp -e 'mirror -cR ./tiki-6.7/ public_html/; bye' -u cpaneluser,cpanelpasswort ftp.kundeseinedomain.org if there is an unzip command installed, you have gont another option upload the compressed file, write an php decompress wrapper script, upload the script via ftp, run it via http, delete it via ftp	[21:30]
fabricius	hmmm you bring me to an idea there might be a decompress wrapper script existing why not siply do this way? hmmm ^^	[21:36]
refizul	http://www.bouthors.fr/wiki/doku.php?id=en:linux:synchro_lftp	[21:42]
fabricius	thx ok, I want two things (or more? ;-) ) 1. get this files to the other server 2. understand lftp to make it usable for me in the long run maybe 3. php unzip aswell? I get to (smoking) now brb ahhahaha not in skype loool and thx for your help refizul	[21:42]
	rehi	[21:50]
..... (idle for 22mn)
Tiki\|bot	New Commit: jonnybradley committed r43252 to the Tiki SVN, changing 1 files - http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki?view=rev&revision=43252	[22:12]
fabricius	ahhhh refizul I GOT IT we made it way too complicated http://webhostingneeds.com/Upload_all_files_and_sub_folders_using_lftp_in_command_line 1.: ftp://user:XXXX@ftp.site.com 2.: set ftp:ssl-allow no 3.: mirror -R tiki-6.7 and it is running like it was SVN wow thus easy anyway, without your help I maybe wouldn't got there today - thx refizul	[22:21]
refizul	np the finetuning flags are its own story	[22:37]
Tiki\|bot	New Commit: jonnybradley committed r43253 to the Tiki SVN, changing 1 files - http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki?view=rev&revision=43253	[22:38]
refizul	I'm not really a ftp user. I prefer rsync via ssh.	[22:38]
fabricius	refizul: I am rather using ssh when possible aswell, even as I am a sideentrant in this IT stuff ... using shell and ssh is quite new to me and I learn it step by step ... at least I got it very clearly, that it is very very handy to be able to use the shell	[22:42]
jacmoe	joined #tikiwiki	[22:54]
Tiki\|bot	New Commit: jonnybradley committed r43254 to the Tiki SVN, changing 1 files - http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki?view=rev&revision=43254	[23:04]
jacmoe	joined #tikiwiki	[23:15]
jonnyb	done for now, nitenite	[23:26]

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