#tikiwiki 2013-06-21,Fri

(Click on time to select a line by its url)

Who	What	When
fabricius	PenguinMan98: we could do a quick Trackers seminar in a few days for you and Telesight, if you want .. trackers are cool need to find a date and time	[00:00]
PenguinMan98	The page that it's on has the 'public' category set on it. The blog itself has the 'guide protected' category. And the blog post is set to 'public' category That would be awesome All three categories are set to be visible by the anonymous user	[00:01]
fabricius	aha but?	[00:01]
PenguinMan98	If an anonymous clicks on it, they get told to log in If a registered user clicks on it, they get told they don't have permission	[00:02]
fabricius	hmmm maybe because Tiki looks up the Blog first and then the BlogPost So Blog says "no" Just sought ... maybe weird this setup ... why so? /s/sought/thought	[00:02]
PenguinMan98	I thought of that, but the Blog should say yes because the guide protected category is viewable by the anon user	[00:04]
fabricius	meaning .. was thinking ;-) ah yes you said hmmm	[00:04]
PenguinMan98	The point of my set up is that I have a page viewable by the public with a blog on it. The page itself should be editable by wiki editors and guide staff. The blog should only be editable by the guide staff. So it gets the guide protected category. Then the post in the blog, why does it even ask for a category? I set it public so everyone could see it.	[00:05]
fabricius	for you backbrain just to remind, in case you tried all different options - in some cases - some specific permissions - you need to set as global permission ... will not work only in category or sometimes a global permission is needed to "support" a certain category permission ... very rare, butfor some combinations necessary maybe you do not set a category for the post leave it with the blog	[00:06]
PenguinMan98	Lemme try that	[00:07]
fabricius	I think the idea is to either categorise the Blog or the Post, but not both ... just thinking fabricius going for a smoke fabricius being wet from rain .. was lashing straiught after sitting on bike .. hehe	[00:07]
PenguinMan98	nope, that didn't help	[00:09]
fabricius	args no object permission?	[00:09]
PenguinMan98	I'll try an object permission now. The only reservation I have is that I can't put blog posts in that blog that are only viewable by the guides if I set an object permission	[00:09]
fabricius	oh I meant be sure NOT to have an existing object permission - I avoid due to conflicts you never find after a while	[00:10]
PenguinMan98	Oh, well I avoid even setting those permissions for that reason	[00:10]
fabricius	loet me smok outside and think about it	[00:11]
PenguinMan98	kk ty	[00:11]
luciash	PenguinMan98: might be a regression bug too in your Tiki version - I think I recently stumbled upon something simmilar in 9.2 (not to be able to display blog to anonymous)	[00:14]
fabricius	BTW PenguinMan98 did you see the blog edit button on the bottom left? http://screencast.com/t/vjYQhZl0AC	[00:14]
luciash	luciash wonders if anonymous is now "trigger" word for NSA or something	[00:14]
fabricius	you marked the heading edit buttons	[00:14]
PenguinMan98	ah, yes!	[00:14]
fabricius	Terrorist Anonymous Bomb ouch we are tracked now	[00:14]
PenguinMan98	the heading edit buttons do not edit the headings they are positioned next to though That's the bug	[00:15]
luciash	fabricius: don't say that ! :D b-b-b-b---b-b--b-b-b---b-bomb !	[00:15]
fabricius	I should not say bomb? why?	[00:15]
luciash	on a plane ;)	[00:15]
fabricius	next time on a plane "bomb bomb bombastic flight" once Ientered a plane and asked loud "did you see the tires? down to the carcass. ... uhh some people have been looking scared .. but they really have been down	[00:16]
PenguinMan98	I had a friend who had a very large object in his backyard. He claimed he found it one day and rolled it home. He wanted to know if we knew what it went to. My buddy and I obliged and went back to examine the object It was an aircraft tire Which led to all kinds of speculation about where it came from and what happened to the rest of the plane It wasn't a small one either. It was a bigger passenger plane tire	[00:18]
luciash	fabricius: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcK5gSRti4g PenguinMan98: wow	[00:20]
h2mster	joined #tikiwiki hi	[00:27]
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astroo-	hello	[00:29]
h2mster	;)	[00:30]
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PenguinMan98	sup What if I just want to turn off the right side section editor buttons? like tiki for smarties has them turned off PenguinMan98 goes hunting in the wiki settings	[00:47]
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PenguinMan98	PenguinMan98 fails to find it	[01:16]
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	PenguinMan98 found something but there doesn't seem to be any documentation on the feature nope, that wasn't what I wanted at all headdesk	[01:32]
	this seems to be what I want, but the feature isn't there in the config http://screencast.com/t/Qi6OuauA07 PenguinMan98 ponders the feasibility of making a separate doc.tiki.org for each revision	[01:44]
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fabricius	PenguinMan98: the headline edit buttons .. easy to switch off luciash: ouch bomb	[02:12]
	PenguinMan98: "yourdomain.com/tiki-admin.php?page=textarea" -> 2nd tab "Plugins" -> untick "Toggle display of section and plugin edit icons"	[02:24]
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	bye people	[05:18]
luciash	bye astroo-	[05:28]
astroo-	bye	[05:33]
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	hey everyone I'm back Tonight's goal is to learn how to customize the look and feel of the homepage and modules on it	[06:22]
Tiki\|bot	New Forum Posts: Composer error with zendframework - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=47716	[06:31]
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PenguinMan98	PenguinMan98 reads how to create custom plugins. Decides that's not gonna work for his needs	[07:20]
	PenguinMan98 reads how to create custom modules but that doesn't seem to be what he needs either. Unless they just conveniently forgot to mention you can use php code in them	[07:32]
fabricius	joined #tikiwiki	[07:32]
PenguinMan98	hey fabricius maybe you can point me in the right direction I want to take these side bar modules I custom coded, and put them on the wiki http://screencast.com/t/u61M9VJvq67n What is the best way to do that? For the one, the data is coming out of the wiki just fine, I just need to style it For the second, I need to pull the data from a custom database field. table*	[07:32]
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	PenguinMan98: I have no time now, i must leave the house. You might ask tonight, if you didn't find a solution by then ... a hint so far: check how the parameters look like in a default module - you could configure a dummy module from the list, give it some parameters in the given fields and check the sriting in the list of the applied modules PenguinMan98: these parameters you can set for a custom module in this way: parameter1&parameter2&parameter3 etc.	[08:29]
PenguinMan98	ok, thank you	[08:30]
fabricius	PenguinMan98: for example: nobox=y&page=HomePage&class=anyname	[08:30]
PenguinMan98	Yes, but it's plugins that do the php work I'm not sure how to interface the two	[08:31]
fabricius	PenguinMan98: you define a class in the css file of your theme and use this class as parameter for the module once the plugin is in a module the class of the module apply	[08:32]
PenguinMan98	Yes, but I still need to do custom PHP to get info from my database	[08:32]
fabricius	there are plugins like the plugin {DIV()} which you can apply classes two	[08:32]
PenguinMan98	again, that's css. I need php	[08:33]
fabricius	there should be a Plugin {PHP()} or {SMARTY()} you can put Smarty code into the custom module	[08:33]
PenguinMan98	smarty disables the {PHP} tags by default.	[08:34]
fabricius	or wikisyntax/wikiplugins, like this Smarty bla bla {wiki}{literal}wikisyntax including wikiplugins here{/literal}{/wiki}smarty bla bla inside the wiki literal tags you can use every wikiplugin, which maybe could do the job, so you can try to find a plugin if there is no module and you can combine several plugins and build up a module with it you can rad about the [list} plugin or some mysql plugin ... I have no time to check now .. this is more advanced stuff and even experienced users have to think a while about how to get something like that togethter - so for now just some ideas to give you a direction I am very busy outside virtual life theses days, will try to look up when you come back in the evening (European time) and might be better available next week -- interesting task you talk about	[08:34]
PenguinMan98	kk ty!	[08:40]
fabricius	so have fun with modules and plugins and tell me the status lateron, bye	[08:41]
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Tiki\|bot	New Forum Posts: 20 of june Webinar - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=47718	[09:13]
PenguinMan98	oh wtf is this? This is the absolute most egregious fail of this entire software. You've gone thorugh how many revisions and still haven't figured out how to do this? I can't use categories to give my guys permissions to create new wiki pages What the hell	[09:23]
	This is core functionality Now I have to go in as admin and set up every single page they need. That's a huge burden on me that I don't need rightnow	[09:33]
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pengy-frustrated	gnite	[09:56]
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marclaporte	joined #tikiwiki marclaporte smells an upgrade	[15:48]
Tiki\|bot	New Forum Posts: PHP 5.5 - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=47722	[15:54]
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PenguinMan98	joined #tikiwiki hey fabricius , thank you for this: "yourdomain.com/tiki-admin.php?page=textarea" -> 2nd tab "Plugins" -> untick "Toggle display of section and plugin edit icons" only issue is, it didn't seem to work to change it. Also, how do I get to that page besides typing it in manually? oh, that was counter intuitive. Turning the feature on, turned the edit icons off PenguinMan98 files that away as silliness Back to my huge core screwup problem Why can I not use categories to give my editors permissions to create wiki pages? I understand the technical problem is that when you create a new page by creating a link on a page, you don't know the category of the page that will be created so when the guy clicks on the ? it doesn't know what permissions to use But it seems that this would be very easily solved by defaulting that new page to use the category and permissions of the page he is linking it from How did you guys get around this? Or did you not?	[17:02]
ricks99	PenguinMan98: when using the searc box or quick edit page module, you can specify category can also use the "force category" option to require selection of a specific category (or select from a tree of categories) when creating pages	[17:09]
PenguinMan98	But force category only works when creating a new page from the wiki -> create new page interface Which my users don't seem to have permission to see	[17:10]
ricks99	no. should work from any. When saving, user is told he must select category	[17:11]
PenguinMan98	So, user A edits page A and puts in a link ((B)). When he tries to save page A, he gets a popup? Or what?	[17:11]
ricks99	yes. will be told that "category must be selected"	[17:12]
PenguinMan98	That seems like it will work. I'd rather just default it to the category the page he's linking from. It would save hassle	[17:12]
ricks99	could b a nice enahancment	[17:14]
PenguinMan98	PenguinMan98 found on google last night that this conversation has been had since version 2. He wonders why nobody has done this already so many years later	[17:15]
ricks99	probably not that easy what if the source page is in multiple categories what if the editor has view perm for the category, but not add/remove objects (but still has perm to create wiki pages) etc lots of possible issues ricks99 thinks he* had this converstion since vers 2 ;)*	[17:15]
PenguinMan98	the conversations I found were with marclaporte	[17:16]
ricks99	fwiw, this functionality exists in strutures already (iirc) when addinga child page in a structure, you can tell it to inherit the cat	[17:16]
PenguinMan98	what's a structure?	[17:17]
ricks99	wiki structure: defined browse path with parent/child relationships i.e.,: a set of hierarchical pages	[17:17]
PenguinMan98	How do you set one of those up?	[17:18]
ricks99	http://twbasics.tikiforsmarties.com/Using+Structures good starting point :)	[17:18]
PenguinMan98	Yeah, (and not to sound whiny but...) except that 9/10 pages on your site are for older versions of tiki and I have to spend an hour trying to figure out how to translate your info to my tiki.	[17:20]
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ricks99	sorry... tiki moves too fast for me to keep up. i try to aim for LTS versions but should be easy enuf to figure out	[17:20]
PenguinMan98	The feel I get is that the interface was pretty stable up to tiki 9 but for 10 they totally moved everything around	[17:21]
ricks99	polom marclaporte y. Tiki 10 is not an LTS will be end of life shortly	[17:21]
PenguinMan98	Well some of us always want the latest version on the assumption that it'll be the most feature rich and stable.	[17:22]
ricks99	if you want stability, use LTS	[17:23]
PenguinMan98	I just don't know if I can justify the downgrade to tiki 9 at this point	[17:23]
ricks99	you should review: http://info.tiki.org/Version+Lifecycle eseically the "upgrade examples"	[17:23]
PenguinMan98	interesting I'm not surprised there is no downgrade	[17:27]
ricks99	no not possible	[17:28]
PenguinMan98	I was expecting a downgrade to involve removing the tiki and starting over	[17:28]
ricks99	pretty much	[17:28]
PenguinMan98	Which is why I'm not willing to do that Users are already actively using the site	[17:28]
ricks99	y. if site is already launched, to late to select LTS	[17:29]
PenguinMan98	Thankfully this site is just a hobby site and nothing professional Already I'm stuck on step 2 of enabling structures because the where it was on tiki 9 because it's not* where it was	[17:30]
ricks99	? are you filtering your admin opitons?	[17:33]
PenguinMan98	advanced is on http://screencast.com/t/N7qGaNtG	[17:33]
ricks99	structures is on the admin: wiki page	[17:33]
PenguinMan98	oh hang on, yeah Just noticed that	[17:33]
ricks99	ur on the wrong page see step 1 on http://twbasics.tikiforsmarties.com/Using+Structures remember, u can always search for specifci options	[17:34]
PenguinMan98	that didn't help me find the option for toggling the section edit buttons	[17:35]
ricks99	odd.what version are you using? in my 9LTS, when isearch for "TOGGLE" it is the second option shown	[17:35]
PenguinMan98	I'm in 10.?	[17:36]
ricks99	oh. sorry	[17:36]
PenguinMan98	And of course it shows up when I do that today just to spite me	[17:36]
ricks99	lol	[17:36]
PenguinMan98	PenguinMan98 crumples up all his pride and throws it out the window	[17:37]
ricks99	sounds like a standard PICNIC error ;-)	[17:37]
PenguinMan98	... never heard of that one before	[17:37]
ricks99	picnic = problem in chair; not in computer	[17:38]
PenguinMan98	Ah, we use PEBCAK Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair. (I goofed the acronym) So, how do you take existing pages and make them a structure?	[17:38]
ricks99	http://twbasics.tikiforsmarties.com/Adding+Pages+to+Structures	[17:41]
PenguinMan98	actually, I think this is more what I need: http://twbasics.tikiforsmarties.com/Creating+Structures	[17:43]
ricks99	o. thought u wanted to add an existing page to a structure	[17:43]
PenguinMan98	Well, I dont' have any yet. I just enabled them	[17:44]
ricks99	o, then y. you must create a structrure before adding antyhing to it	[17:44]
PenguinMan98	Do all the pages in a structure need to have the same category? There are a few pages I'd like to protect	[17:44]
ricks99	no. they can have any category or mulitple categories but iirc, theres an option (when creating a child page within a structure) to inherit its parent categories	[17:45]
PenguinMan98	Yeah, I turned that on	[17:46]
ricks99	your in tiki 10 or trunk (11)?	[17:46]
PenguinMan98	10	[17:47]
ricks99	be sure to check the existing bugs... make sure u dont hit any bumps	[17:47]
PenguinMan98	oh I tend to find them easy enough lol like making horizontal menus is borked if you check the box for []CSS it reloads the page and does nothing	[17:48]
ricks99	check box for CSS?	[17:51]
PenguinMan98	http://screencast.com/t/7NUddFc5R	[17:52]
ricks99	o... didn't realize you completely switched gears. in 10, i think the menu preview was 'experminatal'. YMMV	[17:53]
PenguinMan98	you said find bugs	[17:53]
ricks99	don't waste your time in 10 11 is about to b beta.	[17:53]
PenguinMan98	fine	[17:53]
ricks99	upon release, 10 is closed	[17:53]
PenguinMan98	yup I'll happily upgrade	[17:53]
ricks99	off to find luch. bbl ttyl	[17:54]
PenguinMan98	kk. thanks for your time	[17:54]
ricks99	cya	[17:54]
PenguinMan98	blah. I created the structure but the navigation is borked. It doesn't go into the next page	[18:07]
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PenguinMan98	I think I shot myself in the foot by naming the structure the same as an existing page	[18:22]
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Tiki\|bot	New Forum Posts: Twitter Oauth issues - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=47725	[18:44]
PenguinMan98	OK. I finally have the structure working Only one little minor teensy weensy detail My users STILL cannot create pages here! headkeyboard repeatedly	[18:47]
arildb	PenguinMan98: Try to revoke the edit structure permission	[18:52]
PenguinMan98	from my public users? err, my public category?	[18:52]
arildb	PenguinMan98: Is the structure linked to a category?	[18:59]
PenguinMan98	Yeah, public Public is a category that everyone including anonymous users can view but only registered users with voice and wiki edit permissions can change	[19:01]
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ricks99\|away	PenguinMan98: did u give them ability to edit the structure?	[19:04]
PenguinMan98	yes	[19:04]
ricks99\|away	and the ability to add items to the category	[19:04]
PenguinMan98	... no	[19:05]
ricks99\|away	if you want them to be able to create a page that will be in a category, they need perm to add items to the category	[19:05]
PenguinMan98	PenguinMan98 did not know that...	[19:05]
ricks99\|away	i think tiki_p_add_object and tiki_p_remove_object	[19:07]
PenguinMan98	Ok. So I'm looking at this and I'm thinking	[19:07]
ricks99\|away	see docs for details http://doc.tiki.org/permissions	[19:07]
PenguinMan98	In my wiki, only users with wiki edit permission can add objects but in my forums, registered users with voice can add forum posts	[19:07]
ricks99\|away	edit != add	[19:07]
PenguinMan98	'wiki edit' is the name of a group	[19:08]
ricks99\|away	forms can be categorized -- but not specific posts	[19:08]
luciash	hi	[19:08]
ricks99\|away	hiya luciash	[19:09]
luciash	there is also tiki_p_modify_category_objects	[19:09]
PenguinMan98	So, if I set my category permission to allow all registered users with voice to add items, this would allow ... wait no. THey can add forum posts already	[19:09]
luciash	hi ricks99\|away who is not away	[19:09]
ricks99\|away	ricks99\|away almost away... vacation next week PenguinMan98: sorry, i'm now confused... thought u wanted to have users work on wiki pages in a category? forums are diffretn	[19:09]
PenguinMan98	The deal is, I'm not sure what the category permissions will all affect once set I'm trying to be cognizant of how it will affect my forums / etc	[19:12]
ricks99\|away	any object in the category	[19:12]
PenguinMan98	Here is my current permissions state for the public category: http://screencast.com/t/JYaIp7xphj	[19:12]
ricks99\|away	perms are inhereted from group -> category -> object, and override object -> category -> group	[19:12]
PenguinMan98	But my wiki editor user is still not able to create pages	[19:13]
ricks99\|away	first, check your prems for the group: "wiki editor" ur screen shot is shwoing GROUP perms -- not categories	[19:13]
PenguinMan98	what? No. That's category	[19:14]
ricks99\|away	http://screencast.com/t/JYaIp7xphj those are groups anon, reg, etc.	[19:14]
PenguinMan98	yes	[19:15]
ricks99\|away	your screenshot http://screencast.com/t/JYaIp7xphj is showing GROUP perms -- not category	[19:15]
PenguinMan98	That whole page is the permissions for the public category. Look at the url objectType = category	[19:15]
ricks99\|away	duh. my bad	[19:16]
PenguinMan98	The permissions for that group are empty	[19:16]
ricks99\|away	ok. what are the perms for the actual category. they will override the group perms i mean the group sigh	[19:16]
PenguinMan98	<PenguinMan98> The permissions for that group are empty	[19:17]
ricks99\|away	are you missing tiki_p_modify_object_categories? a requirment for p_add_object?	[19:18]
PenguinMan98	probably where can I find that?	[19:18]
ricks99\|away	belive it is in the Tiki section. you can use the search/filter	[19:19]
PenguinMan98	aha. It's the only thing there Nope. Still can't add pages	[19:20]
ricks99\|away	not sure then. if you want, feel free to pm me site info and i'll b happy to take a look	[19:21]
PenguinMan98	http://screencast.com/t/9DTUkk8jDoar That's my permissions	[19:22]
ricks99\|away	fwiw, normally i add all my perms at group level, then remove/filter by using cats. not by adding (as ur doing)	[19:22]
PenguinMan98	I think I'll need to shift how I think about the permissions before I can understand what you mean	[19:23]
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PenguinMan98	have some awesome music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDRHx4cPgbE	[20:11]
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PenguinMan98	can anyone tell me what tiki_p_blog_post_view_ref does? It's not on the http://doc.tiki.org/Permissions+List The text offered is: Can view in module and feed the blog posts but what does that mean? Also when editing the group permissions, why can you 'select groups' ? Seems weird What would it mean if you were editing the anonymous group and set the permission for the registered user?	[20:43]
ricks99\|away	iirc, "select group" means the user can seledt the specific group from the grouplist (ie., when adding group field to tracker) allows you to create droplist in forms that include/omit specific groups	[20:48]
PenguinMan98	.... can you give me an example?	[20:49]
ricks99\|away	if you have a form (tracker) that has a GROUP field, this way you can assign items to specific groups (e.g., in a call center)	[20:50]
PenguinMan98	I think we're not talking about the same thing I want to set the group permissions	[20:50]
ricks99\|away	ok	[20:52]
PenguinMan98	there are two different buttons to do that: http://screencast.com/t/UMK0v2d3GG The top button seems to go to global permissions. I'm not sure that's what I want So I click on the key instead for the Anonymous group	[20:52]
ricks99\|away	global = group perm perms are being changed thru tiki 11. see dev site for deatils	[20:53]
PenguinMan98	So, those two links go to the same place even though there is a URL parameter if I use the key?	[20:54]
ricks99\|away	detailed info (iirc) in the dev roamap afaik	[20:54]
PenguinMan98	I see	[20:54]
ricks99\|away	the key preloads the selected group the "manage perm" button at top, starts generally	[20:54]
PenguinMan98	k That's silliness and needless confusion imho.	[20:55]
ricks99\|away	y. tiki 10 is not a "real' release.	[20:56]
PenguinMan98	It's real to me	[20:56]
ricks99\|away	things get changed between LTS in pieces real yes, but very limited lifecycle	[20:56]
PenguinMan98	It's what I've got and I've gotta use	[20:56]
ricks99\|away	if you want toedit the perms for aspecific group, click the key icon	[20:56]
PenguinMan98	If you have the 'select groups' set, then it will stay set even if you click the key. The only change is if you didn't have the group already selected and click the key, it will add it to the groups selected	[20:57]
ricks99\|away	y. the key slects the group	[20:58]
PenguinMan98	or if you had already selected the group, the key does nothing	[20:58]
ricks99\|away	y. the key is a hold over from prior verisons that did not allow u to work on multiple group perms at once it is the "old" way check the dev site for fulld etails and explanation and roadmap	[20:59]
PenguinMan98	I see	[21:02]
................ (idle for 1h15mn)
fabricius	joined #tikiwiki	[22:17]
....... (idle for 34mn)
astroo-	joined #tikiwiki hello people	[22:51]
PenguinMan98	hey astroo My clicky finger is soooooo tired now but I've completely redone my permissions system from the ground up	[22:55]
astroo-	hello	[22:58]
........ (idle for 39mn)
luciash	PenguinMan98: congrats	[23:37]
PenguinMan98	Ricks99 helped me see that I'd basically set up a whitelisting style permissions system where only certain things were allowed Instead of how it was intended to be used as a blacklist style only restrict what you need to restrict	[23:37]
luciash	PenguinMan98: yes, whitelisting is better approach if you plan mostly restrictive system, blacklisting is better if you plan open collaborative system and want to restrict only few parts of your site	[23:43]
PenguinMan98	My staff are all super excited now that everything works as intended I was beginning to freak out I had this great wiki and nobody was using it It was that they couldn't fixed now Now, I return to the issue of a customized module appearance / css	[23:52]

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