[00:29] Tiki|bot Recent Bug:  - Tiki wishlist bug  - http://dev.tiki.org/item4765
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[01:40] Tiki-KGB 03arildb r47655 10trunk/ 10templates/wizard/admin_text_area.tpl 10lib/wizard/pages/admin_text_area.php
[01:40] Tiki-KGB [MOD] Add the text-area wizard page to the Wysiwyg HTML mode wizard "continue path".
[01:40] Tiki-KGB However, do not include code mirror and plugin section.
[01:40] Tiki-KGB [ENH] Add the edit plugin toggle option
[01:40] Tiki-KGB 03arildb r47656 10trunk/lib/wizard/pages/admin_text_area.php * Fix comment
[01:41] * marclaporte is impressed by arildb and xavi
[01:42] arildb :-)
[01:44] arildb marclaporte: I found a problem i draw. Doesn't work properly. Added it in the bugtracker.
[01:45] arildb Otherwise, it's easy to add the "fancy" features now. ... makes Tiki kind of like a new product. (I never used profiles much)
[01:56] marclaporte :-)
[01:59] arildb ElFinder is awsome! I love it
[02:01] arildb In the admin wizard,if Elfinder is selected, all dependencies are enable and the finder view is set as the default file gallery view. Hope this is OK. Enable drag & drop for the user, but will overwrite the default view (for those not wantng Elfinder)
[02:05] marclaporte how far to have elFinder as the default interface?
[02:06] arildb it is now, if you select Elfinder in the admin wizard. So, easy to activate now. Should also make it easy to evaluate...I assume lots more people will actually try it.
[02:06] marclaporte Does it deserver to be experimental?
[02:07] arildb I have not used it much. So, I really cannot say, but so far...no problems
[02:08] arildb Now it's easy to test. This decision can be made later, or?
[02:11] marclaporte sure, no rush
[02:11] marclaporte I think in Tiki13, the old interface should be ripped out and we converge all efforts on elFinder
[02:12] arildb Yes, I tend to agree. This Elfinder is so much better
[02:13] arildb Though maybe 13 is too early to remove it
[02:13] arildb Elfinder should get some runtime first
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[02:19] * marclaporte wonders how it will hold up on mobile devices
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[04:59] Gwayne Morning
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[08:43] chibaguy polom
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[10:43] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: How to find a file given its ID ? - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=49262
[11:33] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: Missing translation - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=49265
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[12:37] jonnyb polom polom
[12:42] arildb Hi jonnyb ... back from the high north?
[12:43] jonnyb hi arildb - yes, deep south at about 51º now :)
[12:44] jonnyb almost equatorial!
[12:44] arildb hopefully a little warmer
[12:45] jonnyb yes indeed - high of 21c here today apparently
[12:46] jonnyb been struggling to keep up with your commits recently, been working hard! thanks :)
[12:46] jonnyb am now trying out the new wizard for the first time... will send feedback to the dev list
[12:49] arildb thanks
[12:51] jonnyb just wondering why "Full Wysiwyg Editor is optional" seems to be part of "HTML mode" - is that intentional?
[12:52] xavi hi jonny@irc, welcome back! :-)
[12:52] xavi hi arildb
[12:52] jonnyb hi xavi
[12:52] jonnyb how's the leg?
[12:52] * xavi houseworking (aside of tiki) right now
[12:53] xavi leg is doing fine, thanks :-) (after 2 h of exercise every morning)
[12:54] arildb "Full Wysiwyg Editor is optional" ... yes, I added it to HTML when the text editor is wanted...though not good to combine. For wiki format, it's always optional...or? ... if not Wysiwyg is not selected.
[12:55] jonnyb surely the optionality for wysiwyg isn't dependent on the format of the page?
[12:55] jonnyb the toolbar button depends on that pref, afaik
[12:56] jonnyb not on wysiwyg_htmltowiki
[12:56] arildb No, the wizard attempt to make the setup as "good as possible". So, it's only the wizard display
[12:56] jonnyb oh right, you've made it set it if you pick "compatible" - hmmm...
[12:57] jonnyb just trying to work out how it all works - as lphuberdeau said, shame it's not done with services... :(
[12:59] arildb Services add another element that may fail. As long as the wizard is hooked up to the login process, avoiding them may be better. The "same" code (user wizard) can be wrapped in a service, if needed.
[13:00] jonnyb do services fail for you? i've not seen that... (as long as js is enabled i guess)
[13:01] jonnyb feature_fullscreen isn't a text area thing, it's a wiki page feature i think
[13:01] arildb No services work well, but still an extra element
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[13:03] jonnyb in a similar way feature_categories is not a wiki feature - applies to anything
[13:03] jonnyb as does jCapture
[13:04] arildb Yes, but structures have a categorize option. To "process" it, the category setting should be known. Thus categories moved up to same level as structures
[13:04] jonnyb i guess i should do a reply via email with all this...
[13:04] arildb jCapture ... added there in my initial test page. STill there. Should be somewhere, I think
[13:04] jonnyb but i think that is misleading, and not applicable to all installation types
[13:05] arildb Maybe a more general question about installation "type" can be made earier in the wizard.
[13:05] jonnyb also 'm wondering why auto TOC is there twice, and even gets it's own page for just one input (i know it's your baby ;) )
[13:06] arildb The wizard layout is ...first main page...then detail page afterwards. Opened if main feature is selected
[13:06] arildb This way the details can also be enetered. The user is only asked for details about main features that are enabled
[13:07] jonnyb ok, i just got to the categories page
[13:07] arildb no prefs there, but a details page, which guides the user to where it is configures
[13:08] jonnyb hmm, but now i'm back on a wiki page about structures...
[13:08] arildb again a detail prefs page, because you selected structures
[13:09] jonnyb hmm, ok - maybe there's a better way to show this graphically - didn't seem obvious to me (but i guess i'm not a typical user)
[13:10] arildb there may be better ways...it has been evolving quite a bit lately.
[13:10] jonnyb i guess this is why tiki 12 has been postponed? too fluid now to branch i guess...
[13:11] arildb A graphical guidence about what's coming would be good
[13:11] jonnyb yes, hard to tell where you are in it - a progress bar thing would help
[13:12] jonnyb hmm, http://dev.tiki.org/RoadMap says tiki 12 is due in 8 days
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[13:14] jonnyb generally though, the wizard works well and covers most features - so well done arildb
[13:15] arildb thanks jonnyb. The framwork seems to work, and it's easy to alter the wizard pages and order. There's still some work to be done on the content.
[13:18] jonnyb have a few real world things to attend to, bbl
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[13:44] Tiki-KGB 03yonixxx r47657 10trunk/lang/he/language.php * [TRA] hebrew translation progress
[13:44] Tiki-KGB 03yonixxx r47658 10trunk/styles/BiDi/BiDi.css * [ENH] integration of the new rtl management theme system
[13:50] Tiki-KGB 03yonixxx r47659 10trunk/styles/ 10greenvalley.css 03greenvalley-rtl.css * [ENH] integration of the new rtl management theme system - greenvalley
[13:52] Tiki-KGB 03yonixxx r47660 10trunk/styles/ 03greenvalley/page_background_rtl.jpg 03greenvalley/header_background_rtl.jpg 03greenvalley/phonebook_rtl.jpg 03greenvalley/logo_top.png * [ENH] integration of the new rtl management theme system - greenvalley
[14:28] Tiki-KGB 03yonixxx r47661 10trunk/styles/greenvalley.css * [ENH] integration of the new rtl management theme system - greenvalley
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[14:41] jonnyb bbl
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[14:51] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: removing a directory under SVN control - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=49270
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[15:58] Tiki-KGB 03yonixxx r47662 04trunk/styles/greenvalley/rtl * [REM] integration of the new rtl management theme system - greenvalley
[16:02] Tiki-KGB 03yonixxx r47663 04trunk/styles/greenvalley/logo_top.png * [REM] integration of the new rtl management theme system - greenvalley
[16:34] Tiki-KGB 03nkoth r47664 10trunk/lib/core/Tiki/Command/RedactDBCommand.php * [FIX] More redactor stuff
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[16:40] Tiki-KGB 03nkoth r47665 10trunk/lib/core/Tiki/Command/RedactDBCommand.php * [ENH] More redacting
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[16:58] Tiki-KGB 03tikii18nbot r47666 10trunk/lang/ca/language.php * Catalan translations done on i18n.tiki.org
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[17:04] Tiki-KGB 03tikii18nbot r47667 10trunk/lang/cs/language.php * Czech translations done on i18n.tiki.org
[17:06] Tiki-KGB 03tikii18nbot r47668 10trunk/lang/nl/language.php * Dutch translations done on i18n.tiki.org
[17:06] Tiki-KGB 03tikii18nbot r47669 10trunk/lang/fr/language.php * French translations done on i18n.tiki.org
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[17:08] Tiki-KGB 03tikii18nbot r47670 10trunk/lang/de/language.php * German translations done on i18n.tiki.org
[17:08] Tiki-KGB 03tikii18nbot r47671 10trunk/lang/ko/language.php * Korean translations done on i18n.tiki.org
[17:10] Tiki-KGB 03tikii18nbot r47672 10trunk/lang/es/language.php * Spanish translations done on i18n.tiki.org
[17:10] Tiki-KGB 03tikii18nbot r47673 10trunk/lang/cy/language.php * Welsh translations done on i18n.tiki.org
[17:24] Tiki-KGB 03xavidp r47674 10trunk/templates/wizard/admin_structures.tpl * [FIX]Add missing tr tags
[17:24] Tiki-KGB 03nkoth r47675 10trunk/lib/smarty_tiki/modifier.userlink.php * [FIX] Remove old code that no longer works
[17:24] Tiki-KGB 03xavidp r47676 10trunk/templates/wizard/admin_community.tpl * [FIX]svn property (keywords Id)
[17:26] Tiki-KGB 03xavidp r47677 10trunk/lib/wizard/pages/admin_community.php * [FIX]svn property (keywords Id)
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[18:02] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r47678 10trunk/lib/jquery_tiki/tiki-maps.js
[18:02] Tiki-KGB [FIX] maps: Check for central map position before finding the correct layer (fixes js error on new tracker items)
[18:18] Tiki-KGB 03nkoth r47679 10trunk/lib/core/Tiki/Command/RedactDBCommand.php * [ENH] More redacting
[18:20] Tiki-KGB 03arildb r47680 10trunk/styles/layout/design.css
[18:20] Tiki-KGB [FIX] Make plugins (better) visible, when the inline editor is used with themes using a non-white background
[18:20] arildb Hi Bsfez, you mentioned the need to move the inline styling out of the admin wizard, to make it scriptable. How should this be solved. Use design.css, or?
[18:27] xavi arildb, regarding wizards: there is some duplication of information (at least, lots of overlapping) between the hard coded description of a preference in the admin_xxx.tpl and the info shown in the popup box when passing the mouse over the icon of the question mark (defined in the description fields of the corresponding feature definition elsewhere in TIki)
[18:28] arildb Hi xavi
[18:28] xavi In addition, the screen is sometimes a bit cluttered with text all over the place. Example: templates/wizard/admin_wiki.tpl : there is lots of text all over the screen
[18:29] xavi so I was wondering whether it wouldn't be better if we improve the description in the pop up box (good anyways), and allow the user to pass the mouse over one icon of those questions marks to know more about one feature
[18:29] xavi the interface would be way cleaner
[18:29] * xavi in brainstorming mode ^
[18:30] arildb The textual description should be checked/updated. I don't see a big problem with preferences being shown several places, e.g. categories. They are somewhat different cases. Yes, the admin_wiki page has quite a bit of text.
[18:31] arildb mouse of description. Helps content overload, but user must detect it, and a bit hadr to read several sections.
[18:31] arildb Maybe a "more ->>" button, which pops a description section of the template page
[18:31] arildb not pop, but makes an inline div visible
[18:34] arildb Azure uses a nice help feature. The help button is at the bottom. Up pressed, the help screen open from the bottom and up.
[18:34] arildb s/Up pressed/If pressed
[18:34] xavi ok, no idea myself (skills limited here)
[18:35] arildb If we made a special div id, e.g. wizardHelpSection, then have the wizard frame present the More->> button and if pressed, show the wizardHelpSection, which is defined in the page .tpl file
[18:36] arildb Maybe that can work?
[18:37] arildb Then maybe get rid of all(?) help text in the main page section, but also develop the mouse-over descriptions.
[18:37] xavi mmmm, well, the other example was the structures page, which was clean with just the options (fairly descriptive themselves), plus the info shown in the popup over the info icon. Maybe this simple technical solution is enough? (once the user learns that this icon shows more info, then we are done, and we reuse the same system and info like elsewhere in Tiki admin panels?)
[18:38] arildb Yes, the structure page, I agree...but the options are kind of obscure without a description
[18:38] arildb I agree that the mouse over option is much cleaner
[18:38] xavi to me, the first parapgrah introducing the specific help screen is fine (again, like in the structures page), but then, we can re-use the system (and info, improved where needed) of popup boxes
[18:39] xavi I wonder why some preferences don't have the info icon and extra popup box
[18:39] * xavi searches in the code
[18:41] arildb we can do that...develop the system preference descriptions and limited in page description to what is "required". An additional Help section may not be needed
[18:41] xavi yes, +1
[18:41] xavi and some of them show nothing because:
[18:42] xavi 'description' => tra(''),
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[18:42] xavi Ok, I can help with that
[18:42] xavi btw, what did you have in mind for the user wizard?
[18:43] xavi arildb ? ^
[18:43] arildb user wizard...prime purpose validate that the wizard framework can be used with more wizards. Second reason, make a starting point for "user things", e.g. tutorials
[18:44] xavi ok. I presume that the first wizard for users might be the one guiding them over the user settings in Tiki
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[18:45] arildb maybe ... The framework seems to work well with both. So, it's there to be developed further
[18:45] xavi I mean, if MyTiki is enabled, and USer Preferences screen, etc., then show the user the basic first questions to set up his/her account to match his/her wishes: info public/private, languages, etc
[18:46] arildb yes...maybe that
[18:47] xavi Ok, I'll see how much time I can allocate for that during tomorrow
[18:48] xavi Once we have this basic user wizard in place, we'll need an extra option in the admin wizard: "Show user wizard on first login for new users: [ ]"
[18:49] arildb We should not enable the wizard at login time for user in Tiki 12.
[18:49] arildb This present additional complexities, which we should avoid right now.
[18:49] xavi nope, but let the tiki site admin do that id he/she wants in his/her site
[18:49] xavi for instance
[18:51] xavi but anyway, step by step... this can be done later if needed (12.1, etc)
[18:51] arildb Somebody meantioned smething about a "start-up" module, which was run the first time a user logs in. This would run after the actual login, I assume
[18:52] arildb Does such a thing exist?
[18:52] xavi no idea
[18:52] xavi mmmm, in fact yes, there is some setting in an admin panel to send new users to one url once they are successfully validated and login for the first time,e tc.
[18:53] xavi ^but this is a one-time approach
[18:53] xavi better than nothing as a starting point...
[18:54] xavi and the tiki site admin can choose to do that... (we can add that option somewhere in the admin wizard; maybe at the "Community" section)
[18:54] arildb I am sure this can be re-programmed, so it is opened repeatedly until the user checks "Don't open again"
[18:54] xavi ok
[18:55] arildb Using the login wizard can also be used to signal important messages, e.g. security alerts to admins, who can then maybe subscribe to them.
[18:56] arildb or important system messages to users
[18:57] panamaus oh my. my users are bugging out this morning because the user drop-down list in "tasks" has stopped working
[18:58] panamaus I think my system has surpassed some arbitrary threshold of users that the drop-down feature of user lists converts to a standard text field entry
[18:59] panamaus how to fix this? hmm.
[18:59] arildb panamaus: How many users do you have?
[18:59] xavi arildb: nice
[19:00] panamaus arildb: 100
[19:02] arildb panamaus: I am not aware of any such limit. 100 is not that many.
[19:03] xavi panamaus: check your "Admin home > Look and Feel > Pagination (4th tab): Maximum number of users to show in drop down lists"
[19:03] xavi present at least in Tiki9+
[19:03] panamaus arildb: No, but if I delete one and have 99, my drop-down lists return.
[19:04] xavi panamaus: that's the setting that triggers the change, afaik
[19:04] panamaus xavi: Ah! Curious - my system is set to 50
[19:04] xavi try playing with that setting
[19:05] panamaus xavi: thank you
[19:05] panamaus arildb: thank you too!
[19:05] arildb :)
[19:06] jonnyb panamaus:
[19:06] jonnyb oops
[19:06] jonnyb sounds like user tasks has some arbitrary limit set, so probably needs the code fixing
[19:07] panamaus jonnyb: yeah wouldn't surprise me. tasks is a little clunky
[19:08] jonnyb is an old feature, somewhat neglected
[19:26] jonnyb need food etc, more tomorrow...
[19:28] xavi welcome panamaus
[19:30] Tiki-KGB 03arildb r47681 10trunk/ 10lib/prefs/feature.php 10templates/wizard/admin_structures.tpl
[19:30] Tiki-KGB [ENH] Cleanup the "structures" wizard detail page
[19:30] Tiki-KGB Use system descriptions for preferences. Develop them, rather than loading the wizard pages with text.
[19:30] Tiki-KGB [ENH] Add a description to feature: Open page as structure
[19:30] panamaus xavi: polom
[19:31] xavi hi panamaus
[19:32] xavi arildb: we are doing the same thing! (I already modified that, and have the strings saved in the corresponding prefs .php files)
[19:32] arildb ah...sorry ... go ahead
[19:32] xavi but have not commited anything yet
[19:33] arildb just over-write....I will stay off
[19:33] xavi ok, thks. I mean, this is something I can do with my skills set . You can do other things with your way-higher skills set :-)
[19:33] arildb :-)
[19:36] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r47682 10trunk * [MRG] Automatic merge, branches/11.x 47381 to 47559
[19:36] Tiki-KGB 03yonixxx r47683 10trunk/lang/he/language.php * [TRA] hebrew translation progress
[19:37] xavi arildb: what should we do about this?: "PENDING: It should be possible to create and assign a dedicated file gallery folder for jcapture recorded files."
[19:38] arildb ah yes...I will take a lok at that
[19:42] Tiki-KGB 03tikii18nbot r47684 10trunk/lang/ 10(51 files in 51 dirs) * update language files with get_strings.php
[20:38] Tiki-KGB 03xavidp r47685 10trunk/ 10(9 files in 2 dirs)
[20:38] Tiki-KGB [ENH]Clean interface a bit by means of moving descriptive text shown next to preferences in wizard screens into the description box shown upon mouseover next to each preference (thanks arildb). Minor layout improvements in some screens (jcapture & namespace). Distinguish pref names for show user's info on mouseover and improve description (thanks jonnyb)
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[22:08] Tiki-KGB 03arildb r47686 10trunk/ 10templates/wizard/admin_jcapture.tpl 10lib/wizard/pages/admin_jcapture.php
[22:08] Tiki-KGB [MOD] jCapture wizard detail page specifies the file gallery by name.
[22:08] Tiki-KGB It will be created if it doesn't exist. If it is already specified, the field is read-only.
[22:14] Tiki-KGB 03arildb r47687 10trunk/lib/wizard/pages/admin_jcapture.php * [FIX] PHP warning
[22:29] arildb Does anybody user Wysiwyg in html mode AND the wiki text editor at the same time. Not configured both as active, but actually using both...
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[22:31] arildb ...another question, is anybody using only(!) the wysiwyg in wiki mode? Thus not using the wiki text editor
[22:31] arildb The questions are related to the design of the admin wizard
[22:33] arildb marclaporte: What's your experience regarding these questions?
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[22:52] marclaporte arildb:  I have historically avoided WYWISYG because it was experimental
[22:52] arildb ok
[22:53] marclaporte I felt that the issues were bigger than the benefits
[22:53] marclaporte But I look forward to dogfooding on *tiki.org
[22:53] arildb but maybe you know the preferences/common use of other html mode users?
[22:56] Tiki-KGB 03arildb r47688 10trunk/ 10templates/wizard/admin_wysiwyg.tpl 10lib/prefs/wysiwyg.php * [ENH] Clean up descriptions on the wysiwyg wizard page.
[22:57] marclaporte I know of some sites using WYSIWYG-HTML exclusively
[23:07] arildb yes, that's how I know it.
[23:09] arildb I believe this is the rule. So, maybe the admin wizard can drop the option "wisiwyg is optional" when HTML mode is selected. For wiki mode it is implicit if "wysiwyg is default" is selected.
[23:09] marclaporte Geoff is a good person to ask
[23:10] arildb ok
[23:12] Tiki-KGB 03arildb r47689 10trunk/templates/wizard/admin_wysiwyg.tpl * [ENH] Some layout and text changes
[23:16] Tiki-KGB 03arildb r47690 10trunk/templates/wizard/admin_editor_type.tpl * [ENH] Add some more space to the editor type wizard page
[23:16] Tiki|bot Recent Bug:  - "Show.tiki.org is currently unavailable"  - http://dev.tiki.org/item4766
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