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[09:36] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: painful upgrading release versions info on info.tiki.org - http://suite.tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=53961
[09:36] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: Webinoops - http://suite.tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=53959
[09:36] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: Folder structure changes and exotic perm setup - http://suite.tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=53957
[09:46] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: painful upgrading release versions info on info.tiki.org - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=53961
[09:46] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: Webinoops - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=53959
[09:46] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: Folder structure changes and exotic perm setup - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=53957
[10:23] gour fabricius: hiya, now i see that my tiki installation informs me that "Version 13.0 is no longer supported. A minor upgrade to 13.1 is required.", so it seems better that we upgrade to the trunk for our Croatian translation?
[10:26] fabricius trunk would be great and best, BUT MIND: 14 will be branched in the next 2 weeks and 14.0 will be released before end of the year.
[10:28] fabricius depending on how long you expect for the translation, you should either translate to 14 (now trunk) if you are very fast, or stick to trunk and have it righjt in 15 LTS
[10:29] fabricius AAAAND before you finally decide, please ask jonnyb, as he likely will be doing the semi-automatical merge between latest branch and trunk
[10:29] fabricius Bernard Sfez and Jonny Bradley are the two guys at this time to be asked about where to commit when
[10:30] fabricius gour ^
[10:30] gour considering the current speed, i bet that trunk is safer option :-)
[10:30] gour in the meantime it looks i've to make my hands dirty by learning some svn as well :-)
[10:31] fabricius yes, but maybe in certain time frames it would be better to use 14 branch <-> if automerge from 14 to trunk is in action <-> that to be asked to Jonny
[10:31] fabricius WOW :-D
[10:31] gour heh...tiki seems not to switch to svn soon and i want to get into it prior to it
[10:32] gour my shared --> vps is practically complete, now focusing on learning/deploying/migrating to tiki
[10:32] fabricius Actually I'd love to have 14 translated to croatian language asap, as we have a croatian member in our assiociation, where I just implemented an intranet (collaboration platform) with Tiki pre-14
[10:33] gour really? living in croatia?
[10:33] fabricius what you think? am I crazy developing productive released projects in trunk
[10:33] gour depends how safe is tiki's trunk ;)
[10:36] chibaguy polom
[10:36] fabricius she is from croatia, yes ... not related to Tiki and normal members are not yet in the Collab, but soon ... I start with board and a few crucial workgroups ... sorry, no more internals
[10:36] fabricius but yes, I consequently run sites via SVN since end of 2011 / early 2012, as JonnyB convinced me mid of 2011 in Strasbourg to do so
[10:37] fabricius polom Gary
[10:37] fabricius chibaguy
[10:37] chibaguy hi fabricius / torsten
[10:37] fabricius :-)
[10:37] fabricius ahh good to see you chibaguy
[10:37] fabricius I have one issue since a while and never made it to dev to file the bug report
[10:38] fabricius Tiki editor
[10:39] fabricius if shrinking the browser from nearly full width (11.6" 16:9 screen) to about 60% or narrower (some media query effects, I guess -md-), the editor and the links are not clickable anymore - no edit, if edit no save.
[10:40] chibaguy hmm
[10:40] fabricius I think there must be some div laying over the screen (over the other divs)
[10:40] gour fabricius: do you mostly integrating available tiki features in your projects and writing new stuff as well?
[10:40] chibaguy Is that trunk? or Tiki 13?
[10:41] fabricius actually I feel bad, that I never tracked it, what I should, but I did concentrate on different stuff and just widen my browser ...
[10:41] chibaguy Probably doesn't matter. I think the CSS involved is about the same.
[10:42] fabricius definitely trunk, but I think it is in 13 aswell ... I think I just realised it one day, but as said never gave it any deserved priority
[10:43] fabricius mostlikely I would have fixed or earlier mentioned it, if I would have had to edit from a tablet or so ... this is making me feel even worse - kind of guilty, responsibilityless ... :-(
[10:43] fabricius anyway - I just this time did not forget - feeling better now
[10:43] chibaguy What browser are you using?
[10:44] fabricius Firefox and Chrome / Chromium on Ubuntu 14 - today it is FF30.0
[10:45] chibaguy Hmm, in trunk I can edit in a narrow screen with Windows 8.1 and Firefox.
[10:46] chibaguy 320px wide
[10:47] fabricius ahhhh chibaguy - than it must have been fixed recently - just tested 20 seconds ago (after you mentioned) and yes, in pre-14 it works for me aswell
[10:47] chibaguy ok, great.
[10:48] fabricius So sorted - magically .... there must be working a few wizards in the themes transition team with at least one master wizard inbetween them
[10:49] fabricius chibaguy: did you have seen the new notification system in action?
[10:49] chibaguy No, not yet.
[10:50] fabricius I replaced watches with notifications on our new pre-14 ICSP collab platform ... notifications look beautiful
[10:51] fabricius and the settings dialogue aswell
[10:52] fabricius gour: I am not a coder. in the community I am doing my best to contribute to community management - sometimes failing due to few time or private issues, but sometimes pushing things or working off myself
[10:54] gour fabricius: great. i'll try to learn php and contribute something as well
[10:54] gour but first have to become tiki user :-)
[10:55] chibaguy that's nice to hear, torsten.
[10:55] chibaguy I'll check it out.
[10:57] fabricius gour: on the few projects I develop I use the latest svn versions on a few reasons - one point is to support the developers and the community especially by using and testing features I either pushed myself or I find very important for the software - another point is that I got so much help and support from the community, that I see this a way of giving things back - and third: in general you can expect more and faster suppor
[10:57] fabricius know what you do and are not too much of a newbie) - and fourth it is much much less time consuming to work with a rolling release like it is in fact when using svn
[10:57] gour fabricius: in regard to your post about wikiLingo, i'd like to have support for AsciiDoc in tiki
[10:58] gour i also prefer working with the trunk and not sitting in armchair using LTS waiting for others to do the work for me
[10:59] chibaguy Why does the tracker date field show the month names when adding/inputting an item, but then display numbers-only when viewing the item? Not very elegant.
[10:59] chibaguy Is this configurable?
[11:00] chibaguy I don't see any switches in the tracker field editing accordian.
[11:03] fabricius gour: I support Robert to get wikiLingo accepted in Tiki, whilst disputing at the moment, that a few specific things must be fixed or finished before I let my users use it and before I recommend it for productive use
[11:03] chibaguy Then I tried the jquery date picker and set "date only", no time, and it displays the date + time. Still in numberical form only. yikes.
[11:04] fabricius gour: Then it is Robert to asc to implement AsciiDoc into wikiLingo or to explain you how to implement yourself
[11:04] gour fabricius: nothing against wikiLingo, my point is only that Tiki is atm a bit of 'vendor lock-in' considering its usage of non 'standard' wiki syntax
[11:04] chibaguy I hope month names input in a text field don't get converted to numbers too. ;-)
[11:04] gour fabricius: i expressed my point and Robert contacted me in regard...
[11:06] fabricius gour: believing Robert, wikiLingo is the bridge to the outside world ... the goal is that the user finally can deside which syntax he wants to use and wikiLingo is not only for Tiki - even it is somehow having it's roots here and being implemenmted here first
[11:08] gour fabricius: still, it's not standard like 'asciidoc' which can be converted to docbook used a lot by industry.
[11:08] chibaguy Ah, ok, the tracker uses the short date setting from Admin > General.
[11:08] gour however, i'm hopeful asciidoc can be added to tiki without too much pain
[11:08] fabricius chibaguy: so sorted already?
[11:09] fabricius gour: for me (or for us, if I can dare to speak for the community in this respect) the first priority is to have the existing WikiSyntax fully compatible with and in wikiLingo - then we can use it in production and then we can implement other marksups and even pdf
[11:09] chibaguy yes, but by changing the global short date setting. It would be good if the tracker date field had a switch to choose long or short date display.
[11:10] fabricius chibaguy: so independantly from the global setting?
[11:10] chibaguy Now my short date displays everywhere are rather long.
[11:10] gour fabricius: yeah...i'm facing problem of converting content to tiki, which means copy&paste :-/
[11:10] chibaguy something for the wish list.
[11:11] fabricius gour: so step for step. I see AsciiDoc and others to be implemented not parallel - who should handle and manage this (-1 from me) but over the bridge wikiLingo - and with wikiLingo then we should aswell be able to more or less easily implement import/export functionality
[11:12] fabricius gour: not really, but yes it is still tricky and needs a lot of knowledge to import/export whole projects
[11:12] gour fabricius: i agree. still it's sad that wikilingo does not start with some 'standard' markup for which there are already plenty of abilities to import/export from/to
[11:13] fabricius gour: I am participating (as kind of the Tiki expert) in a transition project, where we get an old customised joomla website plus a media wiki into one single Tiki - but there we had a one-week workshop with about 12 people of different professions attending together
[11:14] chibaguy gour, I haven't looked at wikilingo yet. Do you think its markup is arbitrary, or designed for some reason? Or could it be changed to something more standard?
[11:15] gour chibaguy: are you aware of e.g. pandoc tool?
[11:15] fabricius gour: wikiLingo starts from the standart it was coming from ... you cannot blame a French or a Vietnamese person who supports Esperanto, that it would have been better if he/she would heve been English or Chinese from start on
[11:15] chibaguy no, sorry, I'm pretty ignorant about markup methods in general.
[11:16] gour chibaguy: there are reasons to have certain syntax in tiki's markup as well, but the point is why another markup when there are powerful ones which are more established as standard ones
[11:16] chibaguy right.
[11:16] gour chibaguy: see http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/
[11:16] chibaguy yes, looking already at that page.
[11:17] fabricius gour: I doubt that other markups have similar things than our WikiPlugins - at least not to this extend
[11:17] gour see also http://asciidoctor.org/
[11:17] gour fabricius: can you explain a bit? i'm curios to know
[11:19] fabricius gour: and again the goal of wikiLingo is to open this up - the WIkiSyntax without the WikiPlugins is just a little part of the game and it is not a big deal to to switch between the one and the other syntax
[11:20] fabricius But if you could use more or less arbitrary markup/markdown together with Tiki's WikiPlugins
[11:20] fabricius one simple wikiplugin: {convene}
[11:20] gour that's good then. i had feeling it's 'another non-standard' markup
[11:20] fabricius put this on a wikipage and have a doodle alike planner
[11:22] * gour is installing trunk on VPS
[11:22] fabricius or {TRACKER(trackerId="X", optionally a vast numer of more parameters)}{TRACKER} and you get a form on a wiki page
[11:22] chibaguy Tiki has some unique syntax such as for plugins, that we can't expect to be translated/converted, I suppose, but it'd be good if the basic markup was more standard/convertible.
[11:23] fabricius or {trackerlist trackerId="X", optionally a vast numer of more parameters} and you get the tracker content listed on a wiki page
[11:23] chibaguy Tiki plugins can't be converted because other platforms don't know how to process them. It isn't a matter of rendering.
[11:23] fabricius display articles, links, menus, modules, videos, etc. etc,. etc.
[11:25] chibaguy I wonder if those conversion tools handle things like Mediawiki's page table of contents and so on.
[11:25] chibaguy The "higher level" objects on the page.
[11:25] fabricius chibaguy: that is true - on the other hand, what should Robert or other projects hold back to at least implement the most basic WikiPlugins to their software with the same Plugin Syntax ... surely only those where they have the features for (so articles plugins for joomla, blog post for wordpress, but no trackers likely)
[11:29] fabricius chibaguy: at some point it starts to be not just click and import - but bigger projects with at least some amount of voluntary contributors or budget or both should be able to handle a workshop and such to do same as we did in August - those people are aswell a non-profit project with little support, no real funding and a community living all over the country - or see our TikiFests
[11:29] chibaguy I'm not sure I understand. Is the first task that gour is talking about to have a more-standard syntax for basic things? It seems to me this may be a separate issue from handling plugins and other complex functions.
[11:29] * gour nods
[11:29] * chibaguy is pretty ignorant of this whole topic.
[11:29] gour i'm speaking about 'standard' markup used for producing content
[11:31] gour my point about asciidoc(tor) is that it's more powerful than markdown, suitable for larger docs (books) and being kind of 'standard' can be used to produce different kinds of output from html to pdf as well as to industry-standard docbook
[11:31] chibaguy Ok, so 1) more users would be familiar with this to begin with, and 2) it's more likely a tool would be available for conversion to/from other platforms (with some degree of completeness). Is that right?
[11:31] fabricius so chibaguy / gour: import of articles and pages including right transition or understanding of syntax/markupo/markdown and categories - stuff like that is really crusial and should be possible with automatic or semiautomatic importers/exporters ..... BUT the higher level structures at some point make things difficult to handle and make transitions to projects in itself
[11:31] gour chibaguy: 1) right 2) those are already available
[11:31] fabricius chibaguy: yes that is right
[11:32] chibaguy Ok, thanks.
[11:32] fabricius gour: so with what you want to replace WIkiPlugins, who should do that, what would be the benefit?
[11:32] chibaguy Well, maybe Robert can answer some questions about this at the webinar this week.
[11:33] chibaguy I gotta go. Will be back in a few hours.
[11:33] gour there are e.g. plenty of static-site generators and most of them use things like markdown/reST/asciidoc, which means than changing platform is mostly as easy as possible
[11:34] gour fabricius: no idea about the wikiplugins, but i bet that content - articles, blog posts etc. are major part of any tiki-powered site
[11:34] fabricius gour: you are the only one person in the last three or more years, I hear to be complaining that the Tiki WikiSyntax should be replaced or Tiki needs another syntax
[11:34] gour and having it stored in standard format is win for those considering to use tiki
[11:35] fabricius gour: I do not see the point that if we replace Tiki Syntax with Ascii Doc, either our existing users would have any benefit or hundrets of thousands of new users would run to Tiki and use our software because of that move
[11:36] fabricius AsciiDoc or any other markup/markdown
[11:37] fabricius so adding another type must be an asset and not a useless overload of work and a degation to most of the existing users
[11:37] fabricius I do not want to destroy the Tiki project, but to rise the user experience, ease the life, extending compatibility avoid or lower lock-in aspects etc.
[11:38] fabricius but gour: not replacing one minor problem with a bunch of major problems
[11:38] gour fabricius: see this page: https://dev.tiki.org/Wiki+Parser+Revamp
[11:38] gour there are some god/valid points there
[11:38] gour lowering lock-in is my main point!!
[11:40] gour fabricius: i also do not propose to make asciidoc as the onle one available markup, but, at least, to have is as option
[11:41] gour atm, tiki's markup is kind of lock-in without any working solution for importing content into, what to speak about exporting it
[11:41] gour (afaik)
[11:42] fabricius I do NOT say NO - I just demand to respect the existing environment and to do the right steps first ... Robert Plummer (maybe together with Marc Laporte) mainly started to bring theses thoughts to Tiki, he developed the jison parser, he is doing all that stuff and thus I demand him to make his project usable for production first and then he and me demand to integrate the other markups via this projects
[11:43] gour btw, are there some new php reqs for trunk?
[11:43] fabricius wikiLingo is the un-lock key
[11:44] fabricius new php reqs? no, not higher than 13 ... we are at PHP 5.5 and I hope, that even 15 will work with PHP 5.5
[11:45] gour maybe it's some perms problem...i use symlinks
[11:51] gour i'm getting error in regard to missing: ../lib/init/initlib.php
[11:52] gour ahh, it's problem that the repo was not cp-ed properly
[12:11] gour have one conceptual question...i'd like to move my personal site under the part of non-profit one in order to reduce maint. work and use my personal domain just for tools used for VPS. i know one can have many ('personal') blogs under one tiki installation, but wonder how to accomplish having 'small personal site' per user?
[12:37] gour hhm, tiki-14svn install did 1388 sql queries, while 13 performed ~14k??
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[14:11] fabricius gour: sorry, got phonecalls
[14:15] fabricius gour: you could use perspectives to some extend and bind non-public content or singularly perspective related content to that perspective by using categories - aswell you could bind perspective(s) to domains/subdomains
[14:17] fabricius gour: this is NOT a full multisite feature and is limited to some extend, as all "contained" subwebsites must share the configuration concept at least to some extend ... I would never use this to really setup completely different websites in one Tiki instance
[14:18] fabricius gour: for example for one NGO I have one public website instance and one internal collaboration platform, which shares the same users via Intertiki (somekind of a basic semi-single-sign-on system)
[14:19] fabricius gour: both sites have a completely different role-permission systematic and are way differently structured - so it is much easier to keep them in two different databases
[14:22] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r53126 10trunk/ 10admin/include_look.php 10tiki-admin.php
[14:22] Tiki-KGB [FIX] admin: Remove broken styles-specific reload code from look & feel admin and replace with reload when any prefs changes (thanks Gezza for the reminder)
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[14:27] jonnyb pom pom
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[14:53] fabricius wod wod
[14:54] jonnyb hi fabricius
[14:58] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r53127 10trunk/ 10templates/tiki-admin.tpl 10tiki-admin.php
[14:58] Tiki-KGB [FIX] admin: Hide the navbar icons when on the admin home
[14:58] Tiki-KGB Moved the logic to php and removed dependency on hardcoded duplicate array of admin pages and need for check on "addonadmin" page (no longer necessary i think?)
[14:59] Jyhem plom plom
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[15:05] jonnyb hi Jyhem
[15:07] Jyhem hi jonnyb
[15:07] * Jyhem looking up registration to Fosdem. The 20th is close :(
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[15:34] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r53128 10trunk/lib/prefs/mobile.php
[15:34] Tiki-KGB [DOC] mobile: Warn it is now deprecated in favour of bootstrap (better late than never)
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[15:48] Tiki-KGB [REF] Move Ohia and Snow custom credits.tpl files from templates/styles (now obsolete) to themes/.../templates.
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[16:07] gour fabricius: well, i am  not thinking about separate sites within one, but more like have 'little user corner' witin larger site with user's personal blog - listed with other blogs - and maybe two-three pages connected wit hthat usr - about_user. his/her personal projects etc. iow. small
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[17:06] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r53130 10trunk/ 10(21 files in 13 dirs)
[17:06] Tiki-KGB [KIL] jquery.mobile: Remove almost all of the previous mobile_mode apart from the automatic perspective selection, as that may still prove to be useful with bootstrap.
[17:06] Tiki-KGB N.B. Composer should be updated and all caches flushed.
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[17:17] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: mobile_mode removed from trunk - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=53976
[17:30] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r53131 10trunk/themes/base_files/ 04other/mobile.css 04other/readme.txt * Missed removing mobile.css and found an out of date readme file
[17:34] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r53132 10trunk/lib/prefs/site.php * Site layout default should be basic bootstrap now (shouldn't it?)
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[17:40] Tiki-KGB [FIX] move site_closed.html into themes/base_files/other
[17:40] Tiki-KGB Any site_closed_local.html files from upgrades will need moving too
[18:00] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r53134 04trunk/templates/styles/index.php * [KIL] remove templates/styles as now empty (part 1 - errors...)
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[18:28] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: Promoting Tiki at Fosdem 2015 - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=53977
[18:38] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r53135 10trunk/ 10lib/wiki-plugins/wikiplugin_gdgraph.php 10tiki-gdgraph.php
[18:38] Tiki-KGB [FIX] gdgraph: Don't set the height of a vertical graph based on the number of data points - does'nt make sense (thanks Geoff)
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[19:58] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: phpBB Authentication with phpBB 3.1 - does it work? - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=53980
[20:04] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r53136 10trunk/lib/userslib.php
[20:04] Tiki-KGB [FIX] login: Remove "remember me" dependancy on session as it means cookies only last as long as the session timeout, not the remember me time.
[20:06] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r53137 10trunk/remote.php
[20:06] Tiki-KGB [FIX] login: Fix numerous undefined var erros in remote.php - hard to test without intertiki but mostly related to logs so shouldn't cause any noticable disruptions.
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[23:38] luciash polom
[23:38] luciash anyone here now?