#tikiwiki 2015-04-20,Mon

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Who	What	When
Tiki\|bot	New Forum Posts: Sort order of product list (template product_item_list.tpl in template examples) - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=55865 New Forum Posts: ways of display code formatting in wiki pages - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=55860 New Forum Posts: Wiki Pages / Struktures - layout - css issue - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=55859	[00:04]
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Tiki-KGB	03lindonb r55156 10branches/ 10(27 files) [ENH] use css menus for action item dropdown when javascript is not used; also don't use the table-responsive class in that case so dropdown is not cut off 03lindonb r55157 10(29 files in 3 dirs) * [MRG] Automatic merge, branches/14.x 55154 to 55156	[00:38]
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Tiki\|bot	New Forum Posts: Article Read Count Not Working - http://suite.tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=55866 New Forum Posts: Sort order of product list (template product_item_list.tpl in template examples) - http://suite.tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=55865 New Forum Posts: ways of display code formatting in wiki pages - http://suite.tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=55860	[02:46]
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Tiki-KGB	03lindonb r55158 10branches/14.x/templates/tiki-edit_question_options.tpl * [FIX] typo in variable name 03lindonb r55159 10branches/14.x/templates/tiki-list_kaltura_media_entries.tpl * [FIX] add usual bootstrap table classes 03lindonb r55160 10trunk/templates 10trunk/templates/tiki-list_kaltura_media_entries.tpl 10trunk/templates/tiki-edit_question_options.tpl 10trunk * [MRG] Automatic merge, branches/14.x 55156 to 55159	[03:52]
	03lindonb r55161 10branches/ 1014.x/lib/setup/theme.php 1014.x/lib/smarty_tiki/function.menu.php [FIX] Switch to css menus instead of flying out menus when javascript is not being used. Forces css=y bootstrap=n and type=horiz regardless of user settings. Not sure why type=horiz was necessary, but menus flew out without it. If this is considered a good fix, then the javascript_disabled_shows_all_menus pref is probably not needed.	[04:00]
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	03lindonb r55162 10branches/14.x/lib/smarty_tiki/function.menu.php * [FIX] Missed a dreaded EXTR_SKIP variable in previous commit (r55161)	[04:42]
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jaba	joined #tikiwiki hi	[10:10]
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jaba	hi anybody there?	[10:14]
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Tiki-KGB	03luciash r55163 10branches/14.x/lib/breadcrumblib.php [FIX] Wiki: remove stray strong closing tag from page title in breadcrumblib (leftover from past Tikis?) causing invalid HTML 03luciash r55164 10trunk/lib/setup/theme.php 10trunk/lib/smarty_tiki/function.menu.php 10trunk 10trunk/lib/breadcrumblib.php * [MRG] Automatic merge, branches/14.x 55159 to 55163	[11:26]
fabricius	polom hi jaba ouch gone hi jonnyb	[11:31]
jonnyb	polom fabricius	[11:32]
fabricius	question: desc means newest first, oldest last, right?	[11:33]
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jonnyb	desc is short for descending, so z to a, or high to low, or with dates, yes, new (big) to old (smaller)	[12:01]
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jonnyb	pompom chibaguy	[12:05]
chibaguy	Hi jonnyb	[12:05]
Tiki-KGB	03anbumania r55165 10branches/ 1014.x/themes/base_files/css/tiki_base.css 1014.x/themes/base_files/less/tiki-cssmenus.less * [FIX]-5633-Non-bootstrap navigation menus only pop on to menuLevel1	[12:06]
chibaguy	Theme control seems to work ok in Tiki 14, despite some question when themes.t.o was updated.	[12:12]
jonnyb	yes, it seemed the upgrade script failed didn't spot the change from the bootstrap themes being an option on one theme to being stand alone themes need to reproduce here (but a bit buried just now, actually on a server in Japan ;) )	[12:14]
chibaguy	oh :-)	[12:27]
jonnyb	updating my friend's site to tiki 14 - looking good :)	[12:28]
chibaguy	nice :-)	[12:34]
Tiki\|bot	New Forum Posts: tracker item profile question - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=55871	[12:38]
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fabricius	chibaguy, jonnyb: I just recently tested theme control and it seems to work with categories (imho the most important part), but not for sections (features) and not for objects	[12:47]
chibaguy	Interesting, fabricius. I just tested it with sections (features) and objects, and it worked fine. (didn't check with categories yet)	[12:48]
Tiki\|bot	New Forum Posts: Forum Group Watches in tiki 14.0 - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=55872	[12:48]
jonnyb	i think themes.t.o is using categories not tried sections for ages though	[12:48]
chibaguy	Yeah, I don't usually, but just to check, I switched it on. Themes.t.o had been using categories to apply theme styles to the theme-related page, for demo purposes.	[12:49]
fabricius	chibaguy .. it seems to be in development and maybe we did not have the exact same version - although I svn up quite frequently these times	[12:53]
chibaguy	Well, the site I checked on is zukakakina.com, and it's up to date svn. oh, sorry, it was my localhost that I checked on.	[12:53]
fabricius	chibaguy: I believe you	[12:54]
chibaguy	well, I didn't think you doubted me. i just wanted to indicate the svn status.	[12:54]
fabricius	anyway chibaguy it seems to work somehow, so might be possible to fix if not robust enough ... it is implemented and I will recheck after one of my next svn ups - thx for the hint by the way: 14 or trunk?	[12:55]
chibaguy	14. One glitch is that you can't set a theme + option, I think (recalling the screen). At least for objects and sections.	[12:56]
fabricius	ok	[12:57]
chibaguy	oh, my mistake. It is possible	[12:57]
fabricius	ok ok hen I think back a few weeks ago, some of us feared to lose options and theme control at all	[12:57]
chibaguy	(I'm accustomed to two separate selectors for themes and options, but now they're both in one, as you know.) fivealive/akebi, etc.	[12:58]
fabricius	I am more than happy, that this was reimplemented, even I do not know (yet) who took the workload for that	[12:58]
chibaguy	right. thanks to you and others who rescued them.	[12:58]
fabricius	I haven't been able to code it myself, but it was obvious that we would need to keep them, so at least we had to explain the coders their relevance similar problem right at the moment with basic no-script access to navigation and basic editing heavy fights in the community which I did never experience in Tiki com before .. anyway, we will find good solutions in the end	[13:00]
chibaguy	I wouldn't say "heavy fights" but that's just my perspective, I guess. I do think it's interesting how strongly people feel about javascript. It was a surprise to me when the objection was raised recently. Seems to be kind of a regional thing, also.	[13:15]
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Tiki-KGB	03jonnybradley r55166 10branches/14.x/lib/core/Tracker/Field/ItemLink.php * [FIX] search: array_filter on false generates a warning	[13:52]
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fabricius	chibaguy: yes, indeed it might be a regional thing. and it might be a thing of certain user groups and types of NGOs ... yet Frank, Mette and myself strongly feel that they ave to be adresses and shaould not be left behind or ignored	[14:46]
Tiki-KGB	03luciash r55167 10trunk/lib/core/Tracker/Field/ItemLink.php 10trunk/themes/base_files/less/tiki-cssmenus.less 10trunk/themes/base_files/css/tiki_base.css 10trunk * [MRG] Automatic merge, branches/14.x 55163 to 55166	[14:48]
chibaguy	fabricius, i was just doing some research and one site said that no-javascript users are 2% in the US and 1.6% in France and Spain (just some examples). I thought the percentage was higher in Europe based on our little community here.	[14:48]
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chibaguy	(The figures are a few years old.) Seems like there are case-by-case workarounds, like these: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22153388/bootstrap-no-script-fall-back-for-drop-down-button	[14:48]
fabricius	chibaguy: we (mainly Frank, Mette and myself) are talking about basic stuff - navigation, browsing content, editing a WikiPage, stuff like that. It should at lest be possible for site admins to offer fallbacks for that without the need to completely rewrite the templates (and then maintaining te full set).	[14:51]
chibaguy	Hopefully the template modifications (or lib/smarty_tiki modifications) aren't too extensive.	[14:55]
fabricius	chibaguy: as we have the opportunity to create navbars in custom modules manually, those workarounds can do the job for that. module_menu has a bootstrap=y/n option, which is quite good. Lindon just committed a css behaviour for ellipses for the preference "switch off javascript", which is not really what we need, but indeed a step furter we need to find a standart procedure, a method that is not too complicated for ellipses, drop downs, wrenches in the templated - I do want to prevent blowing up the templates /s/templated/templates	[14:55]
chibaguy	I suppose it'd be a "selling point" if we can say Tiki works without javascript, for sure, even if that isn't an issue for 98% of site users.	[14:57]
fabricius	a good point, even if we should say then "Tiki works without JS to some extend" ;-) actually chibaguy: extend or extent ?	[14:59]
chibaguy	extent	[14:59]
fabricius	ah ok	[14:59]
chibaguy	extend is the verb.	[14:59]
fabricius	thx	[14:59]
chibaguy	sure	[14:59]
fabricius	but as you are very deeply involved in the templates chibaguy, do you know how the parameter "bootstrap=y/n" is implemented for the menus? Do you think that could be a "hook" to make the dropdowns, ellipses etc. css when JS is not detected? I feel, that switching off JS for the whole site would be kind of a crude workaround (better then nothing), which allows a no-script perspective. I'd wish more that those elements fall back to "css mode" if no-script automatically - and for the preference approach there is some code for every affected dropdown anyway what do you think would be a path worth to try?	[15:02]
chibaguy	well, I only know the menubuilding varies depending on the bootstrap=y/n switch. I imagine a check for javascript can be integrated into that. Well, CSS is what hides the hidden elements to begin with. If you switch off both JS and CSS, everything is visible on the page. ;-) But ugly. Sometimes I do switch off CSS (in Opera 12, you can switch between "author style" and "user style" which in my case means no style).	[15:05]
fabricius	my idea would be kind of a general method - some documented code snippet(s) or so - which "tell" tiki, that if JS is not detected parameter bootstrap=y falls back to parameter bootstrap=n, even if default setting applies (no parameter set manually)	[15:07]
chibaguy	Someone needs to reply about that, who actually knows how it would be implemented ;-).	[15:08]
fabricius	actually we do need to find out how we can and then how we want to implement it humm very first we ave to deside if we WANT to implement it /s/ave/have	[15:08]
	chibaguy: Even if it might be an interesting question and helpful to know, why site visitors or users wanted to stay no-script, the more important question is, if we want to respect their desicion at least to an extent and if we want to respect the requirement from consultants to adress tis target group you aswell mentioned no-script capabilities as possible "selling point" and that only about 1.6% to 2% of might be the figure of users who use no-script. I think about how many users that would be a absolte number and how many possible customers that could be.	[15:17]
chibaguy	I think it's important to know the reasons why people don't want sites to use javascript, to help us decide the priority of no-js functionality. A much larger group than noscript people is probably using IE 7 or 8 and we don't support them any more because there's no valid reason for them to not use modern browsers, I suppose.	[15:20]
amette	polom	[15:21]
chibaguy	hey amette.	[15:21]
amette	yeah, I think the "valid reason" is the reason - not activating JS is quite valid imho.	[15:21]
fabricius	what would be, if that would be about a few hundretthousand people and if there would be projects to try to offer them collaboration and knowledge/document management, but those projects would not find appropriate software	[15:21]
amette	hi chibaguy and fabricius :)	[15:21]
fabricius	hi amette how are you?	[15:21]
amette	fine thanks, how are you?	[15:21]
fabricius	not too bad, but the JS discussion is eating time - massively	[15:22]
amette	I believe so.	[15:22]
fabricius	very good, that you pop in and add comments gives me some relieve, cause I am not mainly advertising for myself, but more advocating other users requirements	[15:22]
amette	chibaguy: I'd guess that people using the Tor Browser Bundle are probably an easy to imagine group of people that don't want JavaScript for security/privacy purposes. I don't think that everything in Tiki needs work without JavaScript (and that's impossible, I understand that). But if people just trying to privately research information on the web, can't do so without risking their security, then Tiki went too far. And imho it mustn't be impossible to display information wihtout needing JavaScript.	[15:23]
fabricius	+1	[15:25]
amette	If one wants to use advanced features on a Tiki site, then one most probably trusts that site already. At this point one would activate JavaScript and the burden turns over to the sysadmin of the site to use HTTPs and other technologies to make JS-injection impossible.	[15:26]
chibaguy	search at a tiki site doesn't seem to require js in the browser, so that's good. I think displaying information is ok, too. Probably navigation is the main problem.	[15:26]
amette	So I imagine a good rule of thumb being to "keep the information accessible" to people without JavaScript. This includes navigation, etc. chibaguy: yep, I see you get me :)	[15:26]
chibaguy	Well, some presentation of information needs js now - the modals and dropdowns.	[15:27]
fabricius	where we maybe able to find methods	[15:27]
chibaguy	also maybe file uploading? I'm not sure.	[15:27]
amette	Please don't take the "keep the information accessible" as set in stone yet, but I guess this could be kind of a 1st rule for non-JS design.	[15:27]
fabricius	and get selling point, as then Tiki has Bootstrap with noscript fallback, what is requested out there every here and then	[15:28]
amette	Good point! File uploading is probably not really included in the "keep the information accessible", but it should also work without JS.	[15:28]
fabricius	appears to be a start of a priority list	[15:28]
amette	Modals and Dropdowns should (could?) have kind of a generic fallback solution as fabricius mentioned? Code once, fallback happens automatically?	[15:29]
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fabricius	we are discussing that - here a bit with chibaguy, Frank and myself with Lindon, me yesterday with Nelson ...	[15:29]
amette	So I think that this would be a nifty design and implementation issue for some things once, but then we get 80% of all issues figured out.	[15:30]
fabricius	the question is, if we find a standart procedure for that, which does not blow up the templates and does not requieres double coding all over the place	[15:30]
chibaguy	Whoever would do the implementing needs to check into that, I guess.	[15:31]
amette	Yes, I think so. Sadly I am so far away from code recently, I fear I'm of not much help with that. :-/	[15:32]
chibaguy	fabricius, are you thinking of this as a trunk/tiki 15 thing?	[15:32]
amette	amette thinks Tiki 15 is enough and a must at the same time since it's LTS again	[15:32]
fabricius	we cannot pour code with a watering can over the template, as this would insult the massive work on templates done by chibaguy and a few others	[15:33]
chibaguy	I think most of the changes won't be in the templates so much as in lib/smarty_tiki where the functional parts are put together. or similar places	[15:34]
fabricius	chibaguy amette: If we would agree, that we really want it and we agree a decent behaviour, agree a priority list and minimum requirements, kind of an agreed plan, I am convinced that it would be ok to do that stuff on trunk and leave it out in 14	[15:34]
amette	Terminating this for 15 does not mean though that one can push forced JS into 14 and then these parts of Tiki don't have to be 'fixed' for 15 - I got that impression from Lindon on the devel-list, I might have misunderstood though.	[15:34]
fabricius	amette: I did not understand your previous sentence	[15:35]
amette	chibaguy: Ok, cool, I hoped so that it could be done in lib/smarty_tiki. And those pieces of code would then basically also give a guideline for template writers. fabricius: then forget about it - I went into ranting mode a bit terminate is the wrong word though - schedule is right :)	[15:36]
fabricius	ok, we leave it. I had controversial discussions there, but aswell mutual appologies ... no point to take it into the community	[15:37]
amette	Terminate is a really bad false friend for a native German speaker when talking English! GG	[15:38]
fabricius	hehe, yes, like "handy" for "mobile phone / cell phone" or "public viewing" for "publicly watch football in a group" watching	[15:39]
amette	Indeed. So, but: I think that between chibaguy, fabricius and me here in this chat we more or less agree, don't we?	[15:40]
fabricius	from my side yes and I am convinced, that aswell Frank would agree to that if he would be here - I will inform him about the status - we should recapitulate before we go and put that onto the wiki page.	[15:41]
chibaguy	I think so. I think it would be good to identify the things in Tiki that currently use (depend on) javascript. Then decide which are "essential" to provide a no-js fallback for. If we can all agree on those, it'll make it easier to go forward. Speakaing of go, I need to go take a shower now. bbl.	[15:41]
amette	Indeed. So, but: I think that between chibaguy, fabricius and me here in this chat we more or less agree, don't we? 3. Implement it all for Tiki 15 LTS. what happened with my last line of chat?! :P	[15:42]
fabricius	chibaguy and amette would you be ok, when I put this IRC discussion added to the wikipage aswell? amette, maybe too many independand lines / linebreaks say it again amette	[15:42]
amette	Plan of action: 1. Create a minimal set of rules that helps grasp the core concepts of non-JS, like "keep the information accessible" 2. Codify that. 3. Implement across the board for Tiki 15 LTS.	[15:44]
fabricius	Codify you mean write the code?	[15:44]
amette	And first step for point (1.) in my action plan is actually what chibaguy said: identify things in Tiki that currently depend on JS (and shouldn't). fabricius: yes, codify is sciency speak for 'turning intangible information from the minds of people into readable/transferrable code (like natural language or computer code)'	[15:45]
fabricius	amette for clarification: with "depend on and shouldn't" you mean that needs a fallback?	[15:46]
amette	yes	[15:46]
fabricius	ok so I agree to that recapitulation gary? chibaguy	[15:46]
amette	ok, cool - and yeah: feel free to add this chat to the page - IRC is logged anyways, so I think you don't have to ask	[15:47]
fabricius	ok	[15:47]
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fabricius	Gary seems to be showering already. So we take it from here. Thank you very much amette .. you appeared at the right time at the right place ;-) hi Cr0vaX bolow	[15:49]
amette	you're welcome fabricius bow ninjamettevanishesagain	[15:50]
jonnyb	repolom	[15:50]
fabricius	hi Jonnyb	[15:50]
Cr0vaX	I'll be implementing a Tiki soon	[15:51]
fabricius	I have to adress an issue to you - maybe really important - which I postponed for the last few days every day sadly - 14 release related Jonnyb!	[15:51]
Cr0vaX	in your opinnion, should I implement v13 or v14 trunk?	[15:51]
jonnyb	14, definitely	[15:52]
fabricius	Cr0vaX: development or intranet? v14 public site? 12 or wait for 14	[15:52]
Cr0vaX	it's intranet	[15:52]
jonnyb	13.x will have one more minor upgrade and then is end of life, 14 is the way forward (and bootstrap is so much better)	[15:52]
Cr0vaX	and will be used for more then 150users	[15:52]
fabricius	trunk is too dev and 13 was a preliminary version for the Bootstrap transition 14 Jonnyb and me agree to recommend you 14	[15:53]
Cr0vaX	I've been trying v13, and now v14 v14beta	[15:55]
fabricius	back to my address Jonnyb: INTERTIKI - I have switched my productive testing setup from master=12, clients=12/14/trunk to master=14, then trunk	[15:55]
Cr0vaX	and from what I've tried, v14 seems way much better	[15:56]
fabricius	I will recheck again Jonnyb, but I fear, that when we upgrade tiki.org to 14, the INTERTIKI wil brake /s/wil/will	[15:56]
Cr0vaX	my question was more about how v14beta was going about errors	[15:57]
fabricius	So if I can proof that, we have to fix before release, do you agree Jonnyb?	[15:57]
jonnyb	fabricius: it seems to work ok on themes.tiki.org for me	[15:57]
fabricius	There is no way to test this specific setup on show (show cannot be an intertiki master)	[15:57]
jonnyb	i know, but theme was updated last week and is ok themes	[15:58]
fabricius	Jonyb I am not talking about 14 as client, that definitely works Jonnyb	[15:58]
Cr0vaX	http://sourceforge.net/projects/tikiwiki/files/Tiki_14.x_Peony/14.0beta/ will this have error correction already made after v14beta lauch?	[15:59]
fabricius	I will finally test this again today and hopefully report before end of the day. But Jonnyb, I just want to know, if you'd agree this to be a blocker if proofed. Cr0vaX: what you mena with "error correction"?	[16:00]
jonnyb	but the only way to fix it would be on a live site right, fabricius? i guess we could make next.tiki.org the master for nextdev for instance and test that? although i can't see what would have changed since 13 in that code	[16:01]
fabricius	Jonnyb that was one part of the plan, which I agreed with Nelson yesterday	[16:03]
Cr0vaX	fabricius:since v14b was released, several bugs were reported, and some corrected already(I think)	[16:03]
jonnyb	Cr0vaX: yes, you should use svn if you can	[16:03]
fabricius	Cr0vaX: I hope so, even no guarantee how many and which ... actually we are late mainly cause of fixing issues	[16:04]
jonnyb	alternatively there are daily tarball builds (i think)	[16:04]
fabricius	yes	[16:04]
Cr0vaX	I'll use svn to get it then :)	[16:04]
jonnyb	https://dev.tiki.org/Get+Code#Using_14.x_from_SVN	[16:05]
fabricius	and maybe a good idea to make regular backups	[16:05]
Cr0vaX	ty I'll have to use a tool since I'm using W8	[16:05]
fabricius	I just recently made some .sh file for a daily backup of the dbs on one server all in once (thx to refizul 's help) W8? ahh W8 using Lunux .. I find it easier to use Linux, as I have to interact with servers on a daily basis thus mor or less just extends the desktop	[16:06]
Cr0vaX	:) I'm not "free" where I work	[16:09]
fabricius	you can use svn directly from the shell and logging in to a server which has svn installed, you can do the same there	[16:09]
Cr0vaX	so... have to use W8	[16:09]
fabricius	you are not free? modern slavery?	[16:09]
Cr0vaX	LOL	[16:09]
fabricius	what you are doing?	[16:09]
Cr0vaX	I in IT at a Town Hall	[16:09]
fabricius	ok maybe virtualisation?	[16:10]
Cr0vaX	our environment is pure Microsoft	[16:10]
fabricius	ouch there are a lot of good IT guys in MS environment	[16:10]
Cr0vaX	Tortoise SVN will do it just fine :)	[16:10]
fabricius	as they have to handle the things	[16:11]
Cr0vaX	our aim, is to implement Tiki Wiki as our Intranet knowledge base	[16:11]
fabricius	cool that is a very good idea	[16:11]
Cr0vaX	also aiming for ISO 9001	[16:12]
fabricius	if you want to hire a consultant, just give me a ring	[16:12]
Cr0vaX	ty	[16:12]
fabricius	could help your department setting up, structuring, doing training online or maybe a workshop ;-)	[16:13]
Cr0vaX	will let you know if we need it, ty :)	[16:13]
fabricius	cool, please do so will you put at least the intranet on linux, or even that on windows? You should not use stuff like XAMPP for production - that is meant for testing	[16:13]
Cr0vaX	for now, it'll be on Windows also and using Wamp with production profiles	[16:16]
fabricius	If you'd need a good Linux admin to consult you, do not forget Frank (refizul) or amette, Jyhem aswell ok, once you have production profiles	[16:16]
chibaguy	fabricius, what is the problem with a WAMP stack for running Tiki on an intranet?	[16:16]
fabricius	I knew I'd be trapped :D	[16:17]
Cr0vaX	there are problems when you're talking about 100+ users not all of them may be well intentioned, and security is all but now we need to have it implemented ASAP and all the tests were made on windows by then the faster way is to use a similar environment we'll be using LDAP authentication, dll configurations and so on	[16:17]
fabricius	I know (respectively refer) to apachefriends.com `s XAMPP, WAMPP, LAMPP and they strictly recommend not to use for production (at least did for years, next Frank (refizul), my Linux mentor strictly advises not to do so, third this type of distribution auto-installs differently than you would do manually - different directories and different paths for config files - at least on Linux ....	[16:20]
Cr0vaX	if we find it useful we'll migrate it to linux int the future, but that'll need to a previous migration work, which I can't do now	[16:21]
fabricius	... so then it would be difficult to get help (or use knowledge) from general Linux administration, as things are organised differently than expected - even for good reasons related with the on-time installation distribution concept	[16:22]
Cr0vaX	yes	[16:22]
fabricius	I think Cr0vaX, that mostlikely porting the Tiki database from W to L including the custom files, should not be any problem, given the MySQL would not be differently treated on both systems	[16:23]
Cr0vaX	but migration of any webpage is quite easy, bd import, file copy and that's it, more then that are minor tweaks, like ldap authentication, so that'll have to be analised later :)	[16:23]
fabricius	just a new checkout on Linux, copy custom files, import db, installer and dunno BUT I never did that myself I just assume it SHOULD be that way :D	[16:24]
Cr0vaX	yeah, my concerns are more about LDAP, which is tricky, but is working now, and that's good for me after everything is ok, will move it for a more roboust platform, but now I need to hurry :D users need to use it ASAP	[16:24]
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Cr0vaX	also we're interesed in joining the dev team, in order to have ISO9001, better then it is now implemented we'll be using some tricks to approve documents (using PROPOSALS) which will be ok for now	[16:26]
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nelsonko	ping fabricius, are you there?	[17:01]
fabricius	yes need to go for 5 minututes in about 5 minutes, but I am here most of the late afternoon - whatzup?	[17:02]
nelsonko	btw I did not receive any email from you. I'll have a quick look at the question you just asked about the ellipse to see if I have anything to add	[17:03]
fabricius	nelsonko, yes. 1st Lindon did commits for that and thus I thanked him for the quick action. This went in Cc. to you. I did not expect this quick action, as we agreed to evaluate opportunities and me to ask people for the menu parameter implementation. Actually I did expect that we first evaluate, revue and share with the community	[17:13]
nelsonko	so right now I tried noscript I see first of all interestingly enough the icons don't show on my firefox, they show as some kind of unicode icon	[17:14]
fabricius	then here we had some unplanned but fruitful discussion about the same issues between chibaguy and amette, which I will put to the wikipage in a few minutes 3rd today once I try to do one thing, emails and other communication comes over me to the next and other topics - since hours I haven't been able to eithe rbreakfast or to test certain things, I planed to check and report today so appologies that you did not yet got the email	[17:15]
nelsonko	just wanted to confirm in case mail system error about the intertiki thing, esp.	[17:17]
fabricius	please read aswell my todays e-mail to the devlist (related) and maybe we can agree that I write about Intertiki a bit later - cause: I do want to test first, ten reprot and write a bugreport, where I mention you as volunteering (if issue prooved as bug) and then wirte a summary to yoeu /s/ten reprot/then report So maybe nelsonko we do not discuss now, but i can do my tests, then write bugreport and e-mail and if you then still had time, we meet here again ?	[17:18]
nelsonko	ok, sounds good	[17:20]
fabricius	by the way: eronmeg, is that one of your guys?	[17:21]
nelsonko	as for the js I will read the email you wrote it is a rather long one though and deals with a lot of non technical questions of the whole js vs non-js issue	[17:21]
fabricius	yes, I believe it is aswell a strategic and cultural question, not only technical But here in the IRC (as said will add to Wiki) Gary, Mette and myself came to some agreement which we want to suggest to the community (I understood t "plan" as suggestion), so kind of a pretechnical concept, which might be more interesting for you, in case you agree to the general path and now I really should go and ignore IRC for an hour or so	[17:23]
nelsonko	ok. on this no-us issue, while I am theoretically sympathetic to the idea that Tiki should be as functional without js as possible I am unable to justify company resources to help make this happen as none of our customers have sites that are expected to work without js. It's that kind of problem, which is why I have been pretty much "sitting on the fence" so far.... (not really contributing to the discussion much)	[17:26]
fabricius	The community need to agree, if we want to provide at least basics with no-js and if yes to which extent we ant and we can. The rest is organisation and maybe we will agree for before release of Tiki 15	[17:28]
nelsonko	fabricius, makes sense. I think what would help is to have an accurate understanding how much technical work it is though, and what "basics" mean.	[17:29]
fabricius	and Nelson, we need you and others contributing their opinions instead of sitting on the fences - that might have helped a lot that those few people who discussed so far understood each other better yes, but please Nelson give me time until later, cause much of that is already written down and I simply need the time to 1st retest Intertiki and 2nd put the written stuff on the wiki page after that discussions might be much easier	[17:29]
nelsonko	yes of course :) thanks! eronmeg is geoff, btw (from the UK)	[17:31]
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Tiki-KGB	03gezzzan r55169 10branches/14.x/templates/tiki-view_forum.tpl [FIX] restoring group watching for forum topic (https://tiki.org/forumthread55872)	[18:14]
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	03jonnybradley r55175 10branches/ 1013.x/lib/wiki-plugins/wikiplugin_trackercalendar.php 1013.x/templates/wiki-plugins/trackercalendar.tpl 1013.x [bp/r55135][FIX] Wiki-plugin TrackerCalendar: use the admin preferred timezone instead of the hardcoded value [bp/r55136][FIX] Wiki-plugin TrackerCalendar: obey the admin preferred calendar_firstDayofWeek if set and none passed through the plugin param [bp/r55170][FIX] trackercalendar: Missing global [bp/r55174][FIX] trackercalendar: Obey display_12hr_clock user preference 03jonnybradley r55176 10branches/ 1012.x 1012.x/templates/wiki-plugins/trackercalendar.tpl 1012.x/lib/wiki-plugins/wikiplugin_trackercalendar.php [bp/r55175] [bp/r55135][FIX] Wiki-plugin TrackerCalendar: use the admin preferred timezone instead of the hardcoded value [bp/r55136][FIX] Wiki-plugin TrackerCalendar: obey the admin preferred calendar_firstDayofWeek if set and none passed through the plugin param [bp/r55170][FIX] trackercalendar: Missing global [bp/r55174][FIX] trackercalendar: Obey display_12hr_clock user preference 03nkoth r55177 10branches/14.x/lib/core/Tiki/Profile/InstallHandler/TrackerItem.php [FIX] Status was being reverted to open even if not set in profile and not obeying tracker settings, and also allow updating of status without value changes.	[18:56]
	03nkoth r55178 10branches/13.x/lib/core/Tiki/Profile/InstallHandler/TrackerItem.php [bp/r55177][bp/r54063][FIX] Status was being reverted to open even if not set in profile and not obeying tracker settings, and also allow updating of status without value changes. [ENH] Allow the use of permnames in creating tracker items 03nkoth r55179 10branches/12.x/lib/core/Tiki/Profile/InstallHandler/TrackerItem.php [bp/r55177][bp/r54063][FIX] Status was being reverted to open even if not set in profile and not obeying tracker settings, and also allow updating of status without value changes. [ENH] Allow the use of permnames in creating tracker items 03jonnybradley r55180 10(8 files in 8 dirs) * [MRG] Automatic merge, branches/14.x 55166 to 55177	[19:16]
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aalex	joined #tikiwiki Hello. I wonder why I can't log into my tiki web site when using SSL? https://example.com - cannot login. If I disable the mandatory SSL URL, login perfectly works at http://example.com	[21:27]
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ricks99_	joined #tikiwiki any ldap experts online?	[21:40]
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Tiki\|bot	Recent Bug: - http://dev.tiki.org/item5637	[23:33]
	Recent Bug: - http://dev.tiki.org/item5638	[23:43]

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