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WhoWhatWhen
cc-daveloperjoined #clearfoundation [00:04]
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http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/2014-January/009430.html [01:07]
LacrociviousColor me stupid (most of that work is already done), but does this mean 'ClearCenter Marketplace for CentOS' would be an actual separate and distinct *distro*? [01:11]
cc-daveloperYes
…and no.
The underlying OS is different but the Marketplace will mostly be the same. 		[01:12]
LacrociviousI am having difficulty wrapping my tiny mind around a distro with the word 'Marketplace' in its name. A distro that is a store? [01:13]
cc-daveloperYou won't, for example be able to download and configure the QoS module, why? Because they don't build their kernel with IMQ support. [01:13]
LacrociviousWho would be the target audience for this distro? [01:14]
cc-daveloperThe CentOS community.
and the RHEL community. 		[01:14]
LacrociviousAnd why would they be interested in it, instead of simply using the existing marketplace via clearcenter?
Ah, adding RHEL? 		[01:15]
cc-daveloperYes, say for instance that you wanted the service under ClearOS for Directory and File sharing but you wanted to do it in a cluster and may need the occasional support call on your cluster side of things…best of both worlds. [01:16]
LacrociviousSo, ClearCenter Marketplace for CentOS would be an *alternative* to ClearOS by itself? [01:17]
cc-daveloperYes…a less-useful alternative (in many ways)
Say you wanted Google apps integration in your CentOS environment…you can do that with ClearCenter Marketplace for CentOS.
Or say you want MultiWAN on CentOS…that is ClearFoundation code so you have to either compile it yourself or….ClearCenter Marketplace for CentOS 		[01:17]
LacrociviousI'm still having trouble discerning the salient point. Plus the name is ... um... terrible [01:19]
cc-daveloperit is low hanging fruit for us.
what name would you call it? suggestions? 		[01:19]
LacrociviousHow would you position the product on a table/comparison-chart with, say, ClearOS Community|ClearOS Professional ?
My confusion stems from my (mis?)understanding that it seems an entire distro devoted to what is available from ClearOS Community|ClearOS Professional through their own ClearCenter functionality 		[01:20]
cc-daveloperMostly it will be the same…but some services won't work. So ClearOS Community is superior because 1) it has more apps, 2) apps will appear on ClearOS Community first.
but...
we can and will sell apps and services into CentOS including Zarafa, Dynamic DNS (we'll give that for free), dynamic VPN, anti-malware updates…and, of course, support.
In environments that have already proven and approved CentOS, we become viable. In addition, apps developed for the variant will be available to the existing ClearOS community. 		[01:22]
LacrociviousSo, you'd have ClearOS on the one hand -- which is CentOS based -- and this new distro as... what? An alternative path? For existing CentOS users? Why bifurcate it from ClearOS? [01:24]
cc-daveloperIt's not an us vs. them play.
ClearOS is RHEL based, it used to be CentOS based. 		[01:24]
LacrociviousWell, that's me schooled. I didn't realize it had changed (back?) to RHEL
Okay, it starts to make more sense in that light 		[01:25]
cc-daveloperWith ClearOS 6 it did. The product which we made that competes with CentOS is called ClearOS Core.
We don't build an ISO for it but all the packages are there in the clearos-core repo 		[01:26]
LacrociviousI shamefacedly admit that I am still 5.2 based [01:26]
cc-daveloperthey are a rebuild of the RHEL stack. We actually beat CentOS to version 6 by a week.
well, then you are still on CentOS 		[01:26]
LacrociviousAh, that makes some comments in-channel about waiting for 6.5 release more clear [01:27]
cc-daveloperdon't get me wrong…5.2 is a great product [01:27]
LacrociviousYes, it is. So good in fact, that I've not had the inertial imperative to address the issue ;-) [01:28]
cc-davelopermay i ask? what is your biggest resistance in going to 6?
ah…inertia 		[01:28]
LacrociviousSloth and indolence [01:28]
cc-daveloperif you can't beat inertia you must join it. [01:28]
LacrociviousPlus not one single attack by anyone anywhere has ever gotten through even as far back as ClarkConnect Office 3.0 [01:28]
cc-daveloperawesome
You will see a lot of apps on 6.5 come out that may create the inertia you need.
There is some really cool things coming down the pipe. What do you use ClearOS for? Home, office? 		[01:29]
LacrociviousNor for any of my clients, of which there are presently far fewer than at one time, on account of the local economy mostly. But when I put CC or ClearOS into those small (very small) businesses, their anti-malware ratrace to keep up with their WinOS security pretty much disappeared [01:30]
cc-davelopervery nice [01:30]
LacrociviousTechnically, it is my office, but in reality, these days it is pretty much home, with about a dozen of nodes running various OS variants behind the gateway [01:31]
cc-davelopersince you weren't aware of the version 6 background, you may not know that there is a full OS desktop that you can optionally load into ClearOS 6 [01:31]
LacrociviousCC was actually a large part of my introduction to linux; I was learning Red Hat 8 and CC at the same time, while still weaning myself from WinOS
I did not know that.
Is this for people that want to use their gateway as a workstation? 		[01:32]
cc-daveloperyep…you can even install and run openoffice and firefox on ClearOS
well… we don't advertise that but yeah…it's there. 		[01:32]
LacrociviousI threaten clients with maiming or worse when they suggest using their gateway as a workstation ;-) [01:33]
cc-daveloperI use it to use some graphical tools like VirtManager which allows me to do KVM on ClearOS. [01:33]
LacrociviousDoes it support KDE?
Okay, that makes sense 		[01:33]
cc-daveloperyep…let me get you the URL so you can play with it.
http://www.clearcenter.com/support/documentation/clearos_guides/install_graphical_desktop_for_clearos

Here is a great resource for good stuff on ClearOS:
http://www.clearcenter.com/support/documentation/clearos_guides/start 		[01:34]
LacrociviousTech is a river, and one is advised never to forget that. The moment you wallow out a nice comfy nest in the midst of it, you discover that the river has gone on without you ;-) [01:35]
cc-daveloperhehe [01:35]
LacrociviousThanks for the links; I'll check those out
Do the recent presentations on the terrifying vulnerabilities of X affect your feelings about making these features available?
I usually keep at least one TTY logged in at the gateway console, plus about three tabs in a terminal instance on my most-used workstation, so I can restart services and run top and mc and stuff
So ClearOS Community 6.x is RHEL and it can be that because you build your own binaries?
I will think about this proposed distro name in light of what I have just learned. My gut tells me that it is likely to confuse people, but I don't know a better name right now. If I think of any I will enter them here
The term 'a la carte' comes to mind 		[01:35]
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cc-daveloperWe don't run stuff in X. The only thing that you can do under X is run the network configuration. This link does allow you to run X for much more but it's mostly there for the hackers who like to play around.
We rebuilt the entire RHEL tree…might as well have the toys even if you don't use them..and we don't typically. 		[01:58]
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cc-daveloperAll finished with the reboot of ClearFoundation…FWIW [21:56]
LacrociviousThis was where you were rearranging your servers?
...that you spoke about a couple or three weeks ago?
In any case, *congratulations!*
Lot of work goes into moving stuff around without breaking it 		[22:09]
cc-daveloperit worked out good
really, really good 		[22:13]
LacrociviousThat means you have good people [22:13]
cc-daveloperyeah. [22:14]
LacrociviousImagine if instead you had, say, the clownshow who built the US's healthcare.gov website ;-)
A clearer case of deliberate-sabotage-once-the-contracts-were-secured for which I have never seen anything comparable, but never mind
cc-daveloper: Per your instructing me in what the new Marketplace distro is supposed to be, is the term 'a la carte' applicable, or am I still misunderstanding the concept? 		[22:14]
cc-daveloperlol
sort of a-la-carte
Linux is that ways anyways…we are just making it easy to deploy and manage. 		[22:18]
LacrociviousSure. But your integration has always been outstanding
Easily in the 'just works' category
I definitely come at this from the 'ignorant end of the stick', but I suspect there are more than a few professionals who have 'nodding knowledge' of the concepts, practices and tools available to secure and manage (usually small) outfits, and ClearFoundation products allow them to leverage that knowledge with working solutions they can trust...
... without requiring them to spend a great deal of time learning the minutiae that frankly lies outside the scope of their expertise or profitable workflow
No having to learn how to configure every.single.modular.piece of a solution from the ground up is a *huge* benefit
But only when you can trust that the people who are offering that function as a simple drop-in have done a good job of it 		[22:19]
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