#tikiwiki 2008-07-14,Mon

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Who	What	When
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chibaguy	Hmm, was I supposed to add the TikiTest topbars to new themes in trunk, not in 2.0? (Now reading dev.tw.o Where to commit ...	[02:06]
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marclaporte	polom	[07:31]
zorp-afk	hey	[07:32]
luciash	yo	[07:32]
chibaguy	polomheyyo	[07:33]
marclaporte	Can someone duplicate: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_tracker_item.php?itemId=1872	[07:33]
luciash	chibaguy: yep, if it fixes something, then 2.0, otherwise trunk	[07:33]
chibaguy	ok.	[07:34]
lphuberdeau	http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Where+to+commit	[07:40]
chibaguy	Can the number of themes be reduced in 2.0, or is that for trunk? Or themes added?	[07:46]
lphuberdeau	mostly 3.0 we don't have an alternative to propose at this time, so we need to leave what we have however, April release should be better off	[07:57]
zorp-afk	anyone using the intertiki feature?	[07:59]
luciash	chibaguy: if we fix at least 5 lite based to support most of the tiki i guess we can add and remove	[07:59]
chibaguy	I hope so. I can't imagine waiting until April 2009 to make major changes in the themes. zorp-afk, the Tikiwiki sites use intertiki, like themes.tw.o and doc.tw.o, etc.	[08:02]
luciash	chibaguy: we have to get in sync and work on the fixes together... i'll try to be up at nights this week to catch you here	[08:04]
zorp-afk	I just cant get mine to work, so wonering if anyone has any pointers (beyond the helpfile on tw.o) to guide me along the way	[08:04]
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chibaguy	zorp, did you see http://doc.tikiwiki.org/intertiki ?	[08:05]
zorp	yup :) input those settings and btw, for 1.9.11 there is not intertiki setting in admin-features	[08:06]
chibaguy	tiki-admin.php?page=intertiki About the themes, I accept that I should be faster about offering original killer themes, but I sure don't want to spend another year trying to keep my theme files synched with the defaults.	[08:10]
zorp	chiba - thanx but through that you access the settings, but the features remain turned off until you change the login mode to Intertiki anyhoop, I am now trying to get two 1.1b versions to communicate with eachother w/o success	[08:13]
luciash	chibaguy: iirc we agreeded to make lite based the default templates	[08:14]
chibaguy	That's right. Should that be done for 2.0 already?	[08:15]
lphuberdeau	chibaguy, you can make the changes right now in trunk	[08:15]
chibaguy	I mean trunk, sorry.	[08:15]
luciash	yep, otherwise we end in hell ;)	[08:15]
chibaguy	(I need version diagrams with simple pictures and large letters, it seems. ;-) )	[08:16]
lphuberdeau	thing is, if the theme is not in trunk, we can't dogfood and it won't be stable	[08:17]
chibaguy	catch-22?	[08:17]
lphuberdeau	nope, add it in trunk as soon as possible	[08:17]
luciash	i propose to make them in trunk and when we're fast and good enough backport them to 2.0	[08:17]
marclaporte	chibaguy: now is the time to make the changes to the tpls (in trunk) and it will become TikiWiki 3.0Beta, and we can start dogfooding	[08:17]
lphuberdeau	backport to 2.0 is not an option	[08:17]
marclaporte	we need to solve that header.tpl thing	[08:18]
luciash	lphuberdeau: why ?	[08:18]
marclaporte	It should almost never be duplicated	[08:18]
lphuberdeau	2.0 is a stable branch, in a perfect world, we never even have to release a minor version	[08:18]
marclaporte	themes are a special case, where we are lucky that people can download and install seperately	[08:19]
lphuberdeau	revamping the look and feel of tiki is one of the major objectives of version 3	[08:19]
luciash	lphuberdeau: then tikineat.css remains the default in 2.0	[08:19]
lphuberdeau	too late to make changes, otherwise we will never release and marc is right, installing an additional theme is not too hard	[08:20]
marclaporte	now, in trunk is the time to break all the themes and make them right, as they should have always been and most themes should not have any forked .tpls just one css and maybe some images	[08:21]
chibaguy	unfortunately, one or a few tpls are needed to get variety in themes. One tiki.tpl could work, but it would have to use one or more tables for layout. Modern "table-less" layouts don't have much flexibility for wide content, graphic borders on the site, etc. Anyway, I've got to go now. I hope [LOGGER] is logging this. Where'd that come from?	[08:24]
luciash	c ya gary later tonight (for me)	[08:26]
chibaguy	OK, I'll try to come back in a few hours.	[08:27]
marclaporte	chibaguy: : see you later. We need to discuss this more and hash out a plan.	[08:28]
chibaguy	Yep, thanks for the info also lphuberdeau.	[08:28]
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marclaporte	UI & themes is now the #1 priority. Feature-wise, TikiWiki is already 9.5/10	[08:29]
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nyloth	Hi all :)	[10:14]
zorp	hi	[10:20]
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amette	polom yep, yep, LOGGER works pretty nicely actually: http://irc.amette.eu/irclogger_log/tikiwiki?date=2008-07-14,Mon&sel=74#l70 I'm thinking of just hacking the current web-interface to remove the stupid stuff... (like everyone can lock others out and so on) and keep using it.. all the other solutions have other problems... ... but lets see! and a +1 on the planned way of handling of theme-cleanup in the future 2.0/3.0 versions	[14:26]
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Qantourisc	Item link: Tracker-where-you-wish-to-link-from,Tracker-field-id-witch-you-want-to-list correct ?	[15:29]
	ok found it: in an old item it cannot be changed ... guess I'll need to update ...	[15:34]
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SEWilco2	Because Calendar URLs can't be used in Wiki, any suggestions for a mod_rewrite rule to support any number of cal([0-9]+) to calIds[]=%1 for merging multiple calendars?	[16:50]
Hansi_MP	seems there is a bug in the latest 2.0, regarding displaying of a newly edited wiki page. I can list the page fine, but when I try to access it, it seems to try to access it without adding "tiki-index.php?page=<pagename>" Seems to me that mod_rewrite is enabled by default? Can't seem to find a way to disable it. Anybody else experiencing this? ...and when I instert "tiki-index.php?page=<pagename>" the page displays fine	[16:52]
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RobFerguson	i have href=javascript:function() for HTML Pages but when the page renders the link turns to href=inhibited_js:function(). This is true also for onClick onMousedown etc. Any thoughts?	[16:59]
SEWilco2	I'd like to turn on that feature. So we both need to know what controls the creation of Search-Engine-Friendly URLs so we can both check how ours are set. ..except he's having SEF trouble on 2.0 while I'm trying to start with the more stable 1.9.	[17:00]
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sylvie1	RobFerguson: direct javascript is stripped form wiki page for security reason il you want to use some javascript - use the plugin JS	[17:11]
RobFerguson	ah where is that stripping happening tho? is it part of smarty?	[17:12]
sylvie1	in tiki-setup.php or tiki-setup_base.php...	[17:13]
RobFerguson	yeah i was trying to find it	[17:13]
sylvie1	Hansi_M do you have a .htacess with the rewrite rules	[17:13]
Hansi_MP	I have the standard _htaccess. It should be in the tiki root dir if that was the problem, right? but no .htaccess in tikiroot	[17:15]
sylvie1	yeh but named .htaccess not _htaccess so cp _htaccess .htaccess	[17:15]
Hansi_MP	but then it also has to be enabled in apache, right?	[17:17]
zorp	sylvie, do you have some time to help me with intertiki?	[17:17]
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sylvie1	.htaccess will be handle by apache - yes - so mod-rewrite must be install ...	[17:19]
Hansi_MP	I would like not to use rewriting at all ... which has not been a problem with 1.9.x ... will that change for 2.0?	[17:20]
sylvie1	if tw.org/your_age is not working and if you have copied the .htaccess - perhaps it means that the apache is not well set ok - so unckeck sefurl in admin->feature	[17:20]
Hansi_MP	ah	[17:21]
sylvie1	zorp : It is hard to explain more that the doc...	[17:21]
zorp	sylvie, ok - so any suggestions where/to whom I should turn?	[17:22]
Hansi_MP	... and so it works ... Thanks a million sylvie1! btw, is SEO another name for rewriting?	[17:23]
zorp	sylvie, you think the settings could be messing because I'm running two seperate TWs on seperate sub-domains but the same IP?	[17:25]
Hansi_MP	or, sefurl = rewriting rather ...	[17:26]
sylvie1	zorp: I have a intertiki site where some of the ip, are the same did you activated the log access and error on the main?	[17:28]
zorp	you mean the field where I indicate where the logs are? Yes I did, but the logs weren't created. So I created empty files there myself but they still contain no information	[17:29]
sylvie1	are they apache writeable?	[17:29]
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zorp	dunno... how can I check?	[17:30]
sylvie1	did you chmod a+w these files	[17:30]
zorp	will do right now I did since last we spoke I've updated one of the systems to v.2RC1 and now I get a invalid server key error (101) but the keys are set to the same on the server and client machine	[17:30]
sylvie1	and still nothing in the log?	[17:36]
zorp	nope	[17:36]
sylvie1	and you have no safe-dir?	[17:36]
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zorp	safe dir?	[17:37]
sylvie1	it is not normal you have nothing in the log/access intertiki files	[17:37]
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zorp	that was my firs relection as well	[17:38]
sylvie1	so 1) you missed up with the key 2) the files can not written because in a baddirectory or with bad perms try to put the intertiki logs in templates_c or temp/cache to see if it change something	[17:38]
zorp	gimme a sec when I assign the location of the access&error files in the intertiki admin do I assign it as subdomain/folder/access.log or /folder/access.log ?	[17:39]
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sylvie1	ion the server makes sense on the main sur domain	[17:41]
zorp	sylvie, still no go log files still contain nothing changed the key to nothing - still get invalid server key you know how on the client I have to change the Login setting to Web Server - on the server should the Login be Just Tiki?	[17:50]
sylvie1	on my intertiki the Authentication method of a client is Just tiki and the same for the main	[17:56]
zorp	hm... lemme try :'(	[17:59]
sylvie1	If you do not care about the fact I see your key send me 2 pictures of the intertiki screens one og the main - one of one client	[18:01]
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sylvie1	zorp did you see in the IM ? your server setting is all wrong	[18:11]
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zorp	http://www.ourrights.eu/client3.JPG http://www.ourrights.eu/server3.JPG my bad	[18:39]
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Fabrizio	hi i am having a glitch on two of my tikis on my server can anyone help? I get the following errors Warning: php_uname() has been disabled for security reasons in /home/sgksnzhq/public_html/wikiwords/lib/pear/Date/TimeZone.php on line 3655 Warning: session_start() [function.session-start]: Cannot send session cookie - headers already sent by (output started at /home/sgksnzhq/public_html/wikiwords/lib/pear/Date/TimeZone.php:3655) in /home/sgksnzhq/public_html/wikiwords/tiki-setup_base.php on line 278 Warning: session_start() [function.session-start]: Cannot send session cache limiter - headers already sent (output started at /home/sgksnzhq/public_html/wikiwords/lib/pear/Date/TimeZone.php:3655) in /home/sgksnzhq/public_html/wikiwords/tiki-setup_base.php on line 278 anybody???? anybody that can help? anyone at all?	[19:07]
amette	keep cool, man...	[19:10]
Fabrizio	ok got any ideas?	[19:10]
amette	"php_uname() has been disabled for security reasons..." sounds to me like your PHP-installation doesn't allow to use that function, but dunno...!?	[19:11]
Fabrizio	any solution?	[19:11]
amette	enable it on your server	[19:12]
Fabrizio	i have a cpanel hosted server do you know how i would do that?	[19:12]
amette	call your hoster	[19:12]
Fabrizio	hmmm.... i guess im going to have to! thanks	[19:13]
amette	np - good luck !!	[19:13]
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sylvie1	rodrigo_sampaio: check for the poly where to commit - lph is very picky about the commit - should be only major bug fixed in 2.0	[19:37]
amette	and lph is imho very right about that - we have a release schedule now that doesn't allow for mockups and on the other hand allows for getting even new features out quickly (max. 6 months) rodrigo_sampaio: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Where+to+commit	[19:39]
rodrigo_sampaio	i thought that it was ok to commit translation and minor user improvements on 2.0, sorry :(	[19:39]
amette	translation is ok - minor improvements not once the first RC is out, it's a freeze...	[19:40]
rodrigo_sampaio	amette: even minor improvements to the interface? do you think it is better if i rollback the commits and put then in trunk?	[19:41]
amette	... if the minor improvement really looks like not breaking stuff, it can be negotiated on the mailing list/with the release manager	[19:41]
rodrigo_sampaio	lph is the release manager?	[19:42]
amette	rodrigo_sampaio: even interface improvements can break stuff, didn't look at your commit, but I think that trunk is better, yes	[19:42]
rodrigo_sampaio	amette: i will be more carefully with my next commits	[19:42]
amette	nkoth is the release manager, but as everybody has very little time right now, lph is more or less the technical supervisor for that	[19:43]
rodrigo_sampaio	and mail the release manager about the ones i already did. they change realy minor stuff	[19:43]
luciash	nkoth is the rm iirc	[19:43]
amette	rodrigo_sampaio: no problem, we all have to learn to those new habits first	[19:43]
sylvie1	but it is right that if we are more rigourous - we will release more often	[19:43]
rodrigo_sampaio	+1 :)	[19:43]
amette	rodrigo_sampaio: if you really, really, _really_ want to get it into 2.0, then you should mail devel-list first to keep overhead on the release manager low and so everybody can contribute to it and learn from the decisions	[19:44]
luciash	amette: irc logger is really cool :)	[19:45]
amette	luciash: I'm happy to hear that :)	[19:45]
luciash	will you take over irc.tw.o ?	[19:45]
amette	luciash: yes, most probably - I won't host it, but I'll do the technical/sysadm-part on it	[19:46]
rodrigo_sampaio	amette: actually for me there is no big difference if the changes i made enter in 2.0 or in the next release. it is just some minor interface improvements like Permalink instead of Permalink_. i'm late to a meeting, when i get back ill send a mail anyway thanks sylvie1 and amette for pointing this out :) good to see the work done to 2.0 release	[19:47]
sylvie1	rodrigo_sampaio: you will see =- but I think lph or nelson will roll back	[19:48]
amette	rodrigo_sampaio: ok, if it makes no difference to you, then do it in trunk to minimize work for release managers and keep risk as low as possible isn't 13659 is a useless commit as we don't have trackbacks any more... ;) or were they added again? but get to your meeting now and send a mail - later	[19:48]
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rodrigo_sampaio	amette: i dont the feature has been remove, but i dont think so. there is still a option about that on admin blogs	[19:53]
tikier	hi there... I'm having trouble figuring out why there is no "Browse Server" button in fckeditor in my recent 1.10 beta version when clicking "Insert/Edit Link".. I checked the fckconfig.js and the filemanager connector. Not sure where else to look.	[19:53]
amette	yes, it was very half-heartedly removed - that whole trackback-removal was one of the dumbest things in a long time imho	[19:53]
rodrigo_sampaio	amette: this is a commit i think we should keep, without this change the user gets a senseless string about trackbacks even if there is no trackback	[19:53]
amette	rodrigo_sampaio: currently it would make more sense to comment it out completely... but well... Do you use blogs? I plan to break them soon.... ;P	[19:54]
rodrigo_sampaio	amette: im developing a project that uses blog	[19:55]
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rodrigo_sampaio	amette: yeah, if there is no more trackbacks it is better to remove amette: what are you planning to do with blogs? im planning to do some improvements	[19:55]
amette	ok, that's very good to know! we will see where I will do that (trunk or experimental)... but if you are going to depend on it, it's better for you to know beforehand rodrigo_sampaio: a pretty big overhaul and lph wants to use them for testing tiki object (new implementation=)	[19:56]
rodrigo_sampaio	amette: maybe i can help you with the changes in the blogs im planning to do something in the next month	[19:57]
amette	yes, that would be nice - we will see, need to make a plan first... should be in the upcoming month or so for me, too	[19:58]
rodrigo_sampaio	amette: are you sure the trackbacks have been removed? if so, i'm going to remove the option in blog list (related to the commit 13659) and from the admin blog panel well, i have to go bye	[20:00]
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tikier	Can anyone help point me in the right direction for more debugging info about fckeditor? I'm not sure why a "Browse Server" button isn't present in the Insert/Edit Link popup.. I'm using a recent 1.10 build. and tried the latest fckeditor from subversion.	[20:43]
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Hansi_MP	Anybody know about the SUBMIT-plugin? I can't seem to get it to install, not in 1.9.11, 1.10 og 2.0. Any help appreciated :-)	[21:10]
sylvie1	did you try to directly copy it from mode mods sorry	[21:19]
Hansi_MP	I have only tried installing it using admin mods do you mean doing a manual copy?	[21:20]
sylvie1	yes do you have check out mods - otherwise you can find it on sourceforge http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki/mods/trunk/wiki-plugins/submit/wiki-plugins/wikiplugin_submit.php?view=log http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki/mods/trunk/wiki-plugins/submit/img/icons2/ I have the impression thatn one part is missing in the installation directive for this plugin	[21:21]
tikier	Maybe I can rephrase my question. I've used fckeditor with mediawiki and could link to a file in the equivalent of a "file gallery" while inserting links into wiki's using the wysiwyg editor. I can't find how to do that with the latest tiki build. Any ideas? I need an easy way to do this as most of our users don't want to browse the file gallery, copy the link location, and insert it manually.	[21:24]
Hansi_MP	sylvie1: Gives me this message when I try to install it on 1.9.11: Notice: Undefined offset: 1 in /var/www/tw/lib/mods/modslib.php on line 359 Warning: mkdir() [function.mkdir]: No such file or directory in /var/www/tw/lib/mods/modslib.php on line 68 Notice: Undefined offset: 1 in /var/www/tw/lib/mods/modslib.php on line 360 Notice: Undefined offset: 1 in /var/www/tw/lib/mods/modslib.php on line 375 Warning: copy(mods/wiki-plugins/wikiplugin_submit.php) [function.copy]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /var/www/tw/lib/mods/modslib.php on line 375 Notice: Undefined offset: 1 in /var/www/tw/lib/mods/modslib.php on line 375 wiki-plugins/wikiplugin_submit.php to impossible to copy ...using "admin mods"	[21:26]
sylvie1	I thoughtthere was an inser file an insert img in fck - at least I saw one insert img some times ago ..but sorry I am not a regular wysiwyg	[21:29]
tikier	That's ok. That's what it looks like to me from the fckeditor website and the code snippets I've looked at so far. All the configuration seems to indicate that the file browser is already enabled.	[21:30]
SEWilco2	In 1.9, what is the meaning of the '&bl' at the end of URLs? I'm remapping URLs and wondering what to do with that.	[21:30]
sylvie1	Hansi_M- Yes I thik some instruction are missing - but I am not a mods user too - it is why I gave you the instruction to do it by yourself - when rick will be around - you can ask him best_langauge	[21:31]
SEWilco2	Thanks.	[21:31]
sylvie1	with bl tikiwiki is able to choice between the set of translatiopns of a page - the best one for you	[21:31]
Hansi_MP	I'm looking into it now, thanks again!	[21:31]
.... (idle for 15mn)
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.... (idle for 18mn)
SEWilco2	Ick. 1.9 creates some URLs with href="" and others with href=''. Some quotes, some hyphens.	[22:24]
	s/hyphens/apostrophes/ SEWilco2 fetches another can of programming fluid.	[22:31]
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SEWilco2	Code fragment for 1.9 SEF URL Smarty output filter. Anyone know of obvious problems? http://sh.nu/p/24660	[22:36]
amette	lphuberdeau: check that, dunno if there's yet a mail on devel-list: http://irc.amette.eu/irclogger_log/tikiwiki?date=2008-07-14,Mon&sel=245#l241	[22:37]
SEWilco2	I found a spot in tiki init to invoke it, and seems to work. I'll next wade through the .htaccess rules to create companion output URLs.	[22:37]
lphuberdeau	amette:nice log	[22:38]
amette	lphuberdeau: :) yeah, I like to link directly to the relevant parts, that's very handy :)	[22:38]
lphuberdeau	I can't mail dev right now, away from home, my provide does not let me use my smtp	[22:39]
***	GillesM has quit IRC (Success) GillesM has joined #tikiwiki	[22:39]
amette	just checked - no mail yet on devel-list, so you can get a first impression from the irc-logs	[22:40]
lphuberdeau	ugh, I'm really far from release manage, really only that dude who handled collective decisions in the past few days	[22:41]
SEWilco2	Heh. I stumbled across SEF URL vs best language today, and I see a bug report was filed a few days ago. :-)	[22:41]
amette	yeah, nelson is release manager, but you supported him very well - I think that there was no wrong statement on irc	[22:41]
lphuberdeau	call me release technician, really, it's nothing more	[22:42]
amette	yup: http://irc.amette.eu/irclogger_log/tikiwiki?date=2008-07-14,Mon&sel=256#l252 ;)	[22:43]
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	[LOGGER] starts logging #tikiwiki at Mon Jul 14 22:50:01 2008 [LOGGER] has joined #tikiwiki	[22:50]
lphuberdeau	well, off to sleep	[22:56]
***	lphuberdeau has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)	[22:57]
SEWilco2	dev.tw.o doesn't seem to recognize my login on tw.o. And I logged in again on tw.o to make sure I checked "Remember me".	[23:01]
amette	Remember me is not important for that - this works through InterTiki.... ... so basically it should work as soon as you are registered on tw.o itself.	[23:01]
SEWilco2	I've been on tw.o for longer than I remember when. Is dev.tw.o sensitive to uppercase in SEWilco name?	[23:02]
amette	No idea..	[23:03]
SEWilco2	Well, I seem unable to file a bug report on dev.tw.o about being unable to log on to dev.tw.o :-)	[23:03]
amette	ROFL :P	[23:03]
SEWilco2	I cleared my dev.tw.o cookies (and a de.tw.o too!). Still not being recognized as SEWilco. I'll try again in the morn.	[23:11]
***	SEWilco2 has quit IRC ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0/2008052906]")	[23:14]

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