#tikiwiki 2008-10-22,Wed

(Click on time to select a line by its url)

Who	What	When
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lizi	hey chibaguy! I'm working on a new theme for TW2 :D things are great and difficult and slow, but so far it looks good already :) I already have an interface like no other tiki theme :) PS: my body.png is only 200 bytes :D	[04:14]
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chibaguy	Hi lizi OK, smarty, I reduced ohia's body bg too. ;-)	[04:37]
lizi	ahah btw, I am having some trouble finding the colors of the submenus (phplayers) in ohia	[04:38]
chibaguy	Didn't commit it yet, but will today.	[04:38]
lizi	got any idea aht to modify ? what*	[04:39]
chibaguy	ah, look for .mdkitem, I think, in the stylesheet.	[04:39]
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PS\|bot	SVN: Commit by chibaguy :: r 15255 /mods/trunk/themes/ohia/styles/ (ohia/body.jpg ohia/body.png ohia.css): [FIX] Improved body background image.	[04:55]
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lizi	we4l. I've looked for all this mdkitem stuff and changed a few things, but it doesn't do the trick bah, I'll just start over I mean, my css study I(t's not like if I had ever done any programming/skinning before btw the template things are quite nice	[05:13]
chibaguy	well, if you have any questions, just fire away.	[05:15]
lizi	YAY! I found it ! except I messed up with my color codes, everyrthing is a mess now :P	[05:21]
Paragtim	Chibaguy - The man - Any ideas why some of the page creators are showing as IP adresses and if so how do I stop it/change them to User names? This is for wiki pages	[05:22]
chibaguy	Paragtim, I'm hoping these people registered using their IP addresses as usernames. ;-) Otherwise, no idea.....	[05:23]
Paragtim	Nope - all users have "proper" names on registration :)	[05:24]
chibaguy	yeah, I figured, actually. I haven't seen this before, but a lot of code has been changing.	[05:24]
lizi	maybe it's like on wikipedia, if they are not logged in then their ip shows provided anonymous users have the right to edit stuff	[05:25]
Paragtim	I'm running v2 - Soft launched on Monday so the code is locked now. This is reporting for the Suits. <lizi> Annon Users can only view the home page, and reg users can edit after registration. Made me check tho :)	[05:27]
chibaguy	No, Tiki doesn't have that function, and I believe Paragtim's users are registered.	[05:28]
lizi	ok, then how come the Ips instead of the user names are being shown? If tiki wasn't built this way ? Have you guys seen terminator? lizi runs	[05:29]
Paragtim	It must be a setting in tw. Its the same on both prod and testing sites	[05:29]
chibaguy	Paragtim, maybe you could try another page author listing style -- I mean "List authors:" on the wiki admin page. Don't know if it would make a difference, but could give some clues.	[05:30]
Paragtim	? wki admin ? list authors	[05:31]
lizi	I've seen that thing, ou have contrib style, first and last author, etc...	[05:31]
chibaguy	tiki-admin.php?page=wiki, then find "List authors"	[05:32]
lizi	lol i was about to say this :D	[05:32]
Paragtim	Found it :) showing as creator and Last Editor (Default I think)	[05:33]
lizi	yes that's default	[05:33]
Paragtim	Thats what the suits want - I hate suits :)	[05:34]
lizi	'IP address displayed in history' maybe what you want to take a look at	[05:34]
Paragtim	Where to look ? This is crazy - I have a page (testsql) that I created a couple of days ago in this box. The created is showing my IP but the last mod is showing my user name as last modified	[05:35]
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lizi	in the wiki section (admin panel)	[05:43]
Paragtim	Found It Turned it of - to be on the safe side - But still showing on the page and in the db	[05:45]
lizi	well, if the IPs are in the DB instead of the usernames, they will not disappear why they ended up in there is a mistery and very likely a bug, but you have to remove them manually i think wait up, did you say that you turned off the feature, but it's still on (somehow) ?	[05:48]
Paragtim	To see the problem - testing-time.co.uk (newone/newone) and look at testsql. The most prolific shows the problem on the report and the page footer shows the same You see the problem?	[05:51]
chibaguy	weird	[05:54]
Paragtim	The sites not that crazy :)	[05:54]
chibaguy	No, I mean the IP address as user. :-) Just that part.	[05:55]
Paragtim	The really strange part is that its used both my Ip and my user name as the page creator	[05:56]
chibaguy	Is there any consistent pattern to when each is used?	[05:56]
Paragtim	Not that I can see. The IP address on the 2nd row is the current one. I suppose I could try a date listing to see if the is a pattern but the testsql page has only been around for about 7 days	[05:57]
lizi	only 3 pages are touched... maybe you should see what you were doing when these pages were created	[05:58]
chibaguy	Do you have the "who's online" module activated, so you can see how you're logged in? (I'm wondering if the page author is recorded differently from the logged-in username.)	[05:58]
Paragtim	Yeah thats how I new you were there. Its not that accurate tho	[05:59]
chibaguy	Does it ever show your IP?	[05:59]
Paragtim	No I've tried all three and they all are about the same	[05:59]
chibaguy	Seems like a bug in code involved in page submits (or am I stating the obvious?)	[06:01]
lizi	oh no. not only three. stupid me	[06:01]
Paragtim	<lizi>?	[06:01]
chibaguy	I'm not using the staging feature. I wonder if that's involved.	[06:02]
lizi	lots of pages were created by 2 different IPs all obviously yours well, same subnet anyway	[06:02]
Paragtim	You may be on to something there Because of the staging feature it is impossible to lock the pages This brings up the security problem with SQLPlugin	[06:02]
lizi	yeah a big security problem i was just reading the doc you have to get rid of something I am a noob, and I have done that kind of experimentation before finding db usernames and passwords is just too good to be true I suggest you get rid of 'something'	[06:05]
Paragtim	I am looking at using external calls with "inc" files, but will lose the look and feel. At the moment "white text" is working well :) :)	[06:07]
lizi	I think you should write your own php code/page to display this kind of info. You should get rid of this plugin methinks also, you kinda gave a username/password with admin privileges over IRC.	[06:10]
Paragtim	Deleted in 5 after we look	[06:11]
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lizi	chibaguy i got my menu bar to work (with submenus and all) and look like plone	[06:16]
chibaguy	Heh, cool.	[06:17]
lizi	it's awesome :D better thanthe original :D	[06:17]
chibaguy	I'm anxious to see.... :-)	[06:17]
lizi	there's one thing though... why do we have tables in phplayer menus ?	[06:17]
Paragtim	This site is only for testing - and to allow you really smart people to show me the error of my ways :). The production site is on an intranet and is safe - I hope	[06:18]
chibaguy	That's how the phplayers guy did it. phplayers is used by Tiki as an external resource, so we take it as it comes.	[06:18]
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lizi	why don't we hack it? i thought tables sucked ?	[06:19]
chibaguy	Nobody wants to bother since phplm works. But we are shifting to css menus.	[06:19]
lizi	ok :D	[06:19]
chibaguy	This is part way now.	[06:19]
lizi	great :D	[06:19]
chibaguy	Actually css menus are an option in Tiki2, but not completely ready for prime time. You should play with them if you have time.	[06:20]
lizi	yeah, i saw all this cssmenu stuff in the css, i was wondering what this stuff was.	[06:20]
chibaguy	I started a doc on the styling conversion phpl to css: http://zukakakina.com/tiki-index.php?page=PHPLayers-CSSMenu_mapping really I should have another look. I haven't messed with css menus for a while.	[06:21]
lizi	well, actually this cssmenu feature is active... how Am I supposed to use it ?	[06:22]
chibaguy	Use syntax like {menu css=y type=vert id=44} in a template file or module. Normal menu syntax plus the css flag.	[06:24]
lizi	ok. I'll try this then	[06:25]
chibaguy	IIRC correctly the top_bar.tpl template has code for the css option, but I don't see an admin gui for it yet. Another page with maybe useful info: http://zukakakina.com/tiki-index.php?page=CSS_menus	[06:26]
lizi	ok,well now everthing's broken so I'm back to phplayer :D	[06:29]
chibaguy	OK, well, it's stable anyway.	[06:29]
lizi	I need to take a properlook at it once my theme works (so the theme works for everything, not just the stuff i use)	[06:31]
chibaguy	Right. (a problem for me, too -- my themes could be totally broken on the "list surveys" page and I'd never know) ;-) Well, I generally check things but don't spend much time on some.	[06:31]
lizi	:D what about adverts, breadcrumbs, etc ... ?	[06:34]
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lizi	do you have any idea why they keep the top bar (one that says this is tikiwiki version whatever) in the default tpls ? It would be nice if we could theme things up without actually touching the templates.	[06:36]
chibaguy	adverts are "banners" in Tiki terminology.	[06:37]
lizi	same crap.	[06:37]
chibaguy	Breadcrumbs are an option but not very useful IMHO, due to the flat hierarchy of a wiki. But there is a "breadcrumb" module that lists most-recently-visited pages. There is a "preserve the environment" rule/guideline/anchor that is followed for the sake of existing sites. ....Ones that expect things to continue to be in certain places. So it's hard to move away from old defaults. But the movement is happening, though gradually. Stability is a huge priority.	[06:37]
lizi	well, maybe they shouldn't keep this backward compatibility when they make major releases. l;ike v2 or next, v3	[06:40]
chibaguy	I wanted to dump 3/4 of the current themes but it was felt the new ones weren't stable enough yet.	[06:40]
lizi	most of the current themes are crap	[06:41]
chibaguy	By v3 (march 09) we should be away from the old templates and themes completely.	[06:41]
lizi	hey, did you come up with the weird pink theme ?	[06:41]
chibaguy	waddyamean weird? :-)	[06:41]
lizi	the 'smooth' one	[06:42]
chibaguy	Ah, another adaptation I did, yes.	[06:43]
lizi	I actually hurts to look at it. Maybe my monitor is too bright though	[06:43]
chibaguy	Yes, turn down your monitor. ;-)	[06:43]
lizi	nah nah you're crazy you're not my friend anymore	[06:43]
chibaguy	chibaguy is crushed....	[06:43]
lizi	even in japan they're no so crazy with them colors :P :P :D	[06:44]
chibaguy	I'm not so sure about that. ;-)	[06:44]
lizi	the candii clouds one seems more japanese-style	[06:45]
chibaguy	Well, I like the idea of a lot of variety in themes.	[06:45]
lizi	Also, me suspects you'll be in charge of the TW kitty theme ? that'd be awesome actually :D	[06:45]
chibaguy	Is that a request? ;-)	[06:45]
lizi	lol yeah why not :P	[06:46]
chibaguy	I'm not sure about using copyrighted graphics, etc. What do you think?	[06:46]
lizi	hmm I don't know how all that stuff works there could be some website kits around with decent licensing for the graphics	[06:46]
chibaguy	Anyway, Tiki's file repository can't contain that kind of questionable stuff.	[06:47]
lizi	after all, we're not sdtealing, merely creating more advertisment for them hmm sad	[06:47]
chibaguy	Well, I'll look into it. What if it's sort of "Hello Kitty compatible" like "Hello Tiki"? ;-)	[06:48]
lizi	the thing is, you can make kitty graphics without copying them I mean come on that damn cat can probably be drawn by ANY 3 year old.	[06:49]
chibaguy	chibaguy notices great minds thinking alike. ;-) probably was	[06:50]
lizi	yeah. Hello Tiki would be great :D	[06:50]
chibaguy	If they want to sue us, great publicity. :-)	[06:50]
lizi	yeah :D	[06:51]
chibaguy	"Corporate Cat Sues Not-For-Profit"	[06:51]
lizi	lol	[06:51]
chibaguy	Related topic, what do you think about a TikiWiki mascot, similar to, like, the Linux penguin, kind of idea?	[06:53]
lizi	I think ti'd be great it would *	[06:56]
chibaguy	chibaguy just notices "Hello Tikky" would be even better for the kitty-kompatible....	[06:56]
lizi	I think tux is a bit old fashioned though. hehe	[06:56]
chibaguy	Well, my idea is that a tiki is already a kind of character, so that'd be a natural place to start. If it can be done well.	[06:57]
lizi	we could buy sanrio, and use kitty as our mascot	[06:57]
chibaguy	hmm	[06:58]
lizi	I can't buy sanrio Maybe marc can :D	[06:58]
chibaguy	Oh, I thought you were offering....	[06:59]
lizi	or you can. Our contact vin japan. everything is great :D in* cold fingers. cant feel keyboard	[06:59]
chibaguy	It's warm here in Tokyo.	[07:00]
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chibaguy	Actually slightly shirtsleeve sweaty outside.	[07:00]
Paragtim	English grey and wet here 10 deg c Benn following the Kitty - prefer the Rottweiller - Works on so many levels *Been	[07:01]
chibaguy	hm, that's a direction I hadn't considered..	[07:03]
Paragtim	:)	[07:03]
chibaguy	I can see the caption now: "You WILL use TIki"	[07:04]
Paragtim	And the code bites !	[07:04]
chibaguy	I hope that isn't taken the wrong way. ;-)	[07:06]
lizi	we could use the hypnotode	[07:06]
Paragtim	So a theme for lizi and 1 for me please	[07:06]
lizi	also do with a miffy theme	[07:06]
chibaguy	oh I don't know about a miffy theme. That might be going too far...	[07:06]
lizi	nono. Many themes for lizi and only one for you muahahahaha chibaguy my bf has got a japanese friend. she's like totally into that crazy stuff I wonder where she finds her supplies, that thing is quite old	[07:06]
Paragtim	old guy here - whats a miffy theme - or shouldn't I ask !	[07:07]
lizi	google for miffy :D	[07:08]
chibaguy	Miffys'r'Us, I guess.	[07:08]
Paragtim	from google miffyshop.co.uk I think I will stay with the rotty 56 kg dog - 46 kg filipina wife	[07:09]
chibaguy	actually a Miffy is a perfect gift for a rotty, if it's into rip and tear...	[07:10]
Paragtim	Wife threatens dog will be lunch if it mis-behaves - Dog just smiles	[07:10]
chibaguy	Well, at least her transportation needs are solved. saddle up the pup	[07:10]
lizi	is there a ongoing debate about this mascot thing ?	[07:15]
chibaguy	Only a web page: http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Mascot Marc brought it up. I imagine it'll be discussed at TikiFest in Montreal next month. chibaguy will be there. :-)	[07:17]
Paragtim	Glad to here your going	[07:22]
chibaguy	Yeah, my first time to one of these.	[07:23]
Paragtim	If I can get my site past the pilot I will try and get the company to spring for a ticket :)	[07:24]
chibaguy	That'd be nice.	[07:24]
Paragtim	Will know by end of November, by usage, by end of Dec if the suits want further dev	[07:25]
lizi	hmm Im'not too much into inca gods. Inca gods did not support wikisyntax after all.	[07:25]
Paragtim	The problem is they will probably take it away from me and outsource it for re-dev and a large budget	[07:26]
chibaguy	Well, I think to work as a mascot thing, it'd have to be simplified/transformed quite a bit. Paragtim, that'd be a real blow, after all the sweat you've put into it.	[07:26]
Paragtim	I've had a lot of fun tho. Never even heard of tw in July I like to keep the project, don't want to go back to fixing data card connections	[07:27]
chibaguy	That doesn't sound like much fun.	[07:29]
Paragtim	It pays the bills - but 40 hours per week is more than enough. I have enjoyed the site dev and I will be arguing to keep it	[07:30]
chibaguy	lizi, I think the mascot could evolve a long ways from authentic tiki, to the point that it's a good contemporary mascot image. What I'm not sure about is having both the tiki image (implied) and another image that isn't related at all. Like "tiki" suggests an image or something already, so a mascot, I think, should either be a tiki (of some sort) or fit in with a tiki smoothly somehow. like a gekko on top of a tiki sort of thing. or a tiki transformer that becomes a gekko, who knows.... Well, I've got some sketches, etc. that I'll add to the Mascot page later on, for discussion and laughs....	[07:31]
lizi	I'm sure we could adapt tiki(s) to the current logo	[07:37]
chibaguy	Right, I made some sketches that started with the logo and worked it into a character, some time ago, so this can work. But then I was thinking wait a minute, there is a logo, and there is a mascot -- maybe they need to be pretty distinct. Well, details to hash out.	[07:39]
Paragtim	Thanks for all the help chiba and lizi. Been fun - Off to a progress meeting - catch you all later :)	[07:39]
chibaguy	ok	[07:39]
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lizi	hope he does alright with his project	[07:41]
chibaguy	yeah, it'd be hard to be in the situation of having to please 'the suits'.	[07:42]
lizi	become the suits hide your true identity and at night, with the fsf, fight for justice :D	[07:45]
chibaguy	sounds like a good movie story "Mr. Anderson, it seems you live two lives....	[07:46]
lizi	lol hey gotta go cya later :D	[07:56]
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MatWho_	Hi all	[13:29]
sylvieg	is the process of version number explain somewhere - why a svn up on tiki2 gives me 2.2 and not .. i do not know 2.3 b?	[13:31]
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ricks99	q: how to specify minimum search word length?	[13:51]
mac\|jaeger	3	[13:51]
ricks99	i am using full-text search. docs say "min length of search word" is not used docs say to set 'in mysql' ... how?	[13:51]
mac\|jaeger	oh, you didn't want a min value...	[13:52]
ricks99	y. i want to specify a min word lenght	[13:52]
mac\|jaeger	no idea how to tell the system but i don't think you have to set anything in mysql	[13:52]
ricks99	from tw docs: "Note: This option applies only if the Activate MySQL Full Text Feature is not enabled. When using the MySQL Full Text Search, you must specify the word length it in the MySQL configuration." what/where is mysql configuration?	[13:53]
sylvieg	usually it is a file my.cnf	[13:54]
ricks99	i have my.ini btw, notice that tw.o allows searches of any word length: http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-searchindex.php?highlight=a&search= any idea what the option is named?	[13:55]
sylvieg	sorry I do nore remenber	[13:56]
ricks99	i see nothing obvious such as "min query word length" k	[13:56]
mac\|jaeger	i don't see how you possibly could set that in mysql	[13:57]
ricks99	duh... tx google: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/fulltext-fine-tuning.html	[13:57]
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ricks99	ft_min_word_len	[13:58]
mac\|jaeger	oi! falling suddenly silent	[13:59]
ricks99	restarting to test.... rebuilding search index... hm... no change i must be doing something wrong :(	[14:00]
	tah-dah! editng the correct cnf helps :)	[14:12]
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gizwill	bonsoir ami tikinaute lol	[18:10]
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marclaporte	hi gillesMMM	[18:25]
Simmi	I'm having problems installing the TRIM tools. Anyone have any experience with this.	[18:25]
marclaporte	hI do TRIM rocks!	[18:25]
Simmi	OK, not for me just yet.. I cant compile the ssh.so	[18:26]
marclaporte	oh	[18:27]
Simmi	So, since this was optional, I then decided to igore that and then got hunk up on the next step to 'make instance' hunk - erm, what am I on.. sorry hunk=hung Sooo, I thought that there may be some difference in the 32 bit and 64 bit libs Would this be a prblem.? (I'm running Ubuntu 64 bit) No - its not the keyboards bad spelling causing the problem :-[ Was hoping to have something for Tikifest, but don't think it will happen.	[18:27]
marclaporte	hmm does a manual ssh work?	[18:32]
Simmi	Oh yes, I can use WinSCP with Level2 SSH no probs	[18:32]
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lphuberdeau	the php ssh extension is a little annoying... it does not compile with the latest version of libssh2 distributed with ubuntu... kind of need to fix the code to use it not very hard... just follow the errors the compiler throws out	[18:33]
Simmi	OK, is there a patch?	[18:34]
lphuberdeau	really makes trim faster and more stable	[18:34]
lizi	Hi everybody.... do you know where I can find some tempates or any interesting files I could work with to create a tikiwikilogo that goes well with my theme ?	[18:34]
Simmi	Humm, thats where I fall down lph.	[18:35]
lizi	I mean, something better than a jpg :P	[18:35]
Simmi	I am not very good at Linux as you know (Porto)	[18:35]
lphuberdeau	this is more related to C programming thought ;) I have the code for it on my desktop, but I don't know if it's the patched up version	[18:35]
Simmi	Hmm, will go back and follow instructions an post output to sh.nu/p I believe it can't find php to even start the make code. No idea how to fix	[18:36]
lphuberdeau	I will happen to see Sara who wrote the extension just before going to tikifest... might ask to fix it permanently	[18:37]
Simmi	Great. Pls let me know of there are any developments there.	[18:38]
lphuberdeau	did you install php5-dev ?	[18:39]
Simmi	I have a few domains we can play around with if people want to install and try things out on a temp basis.	[18:39]
lizi	Simmi if it can't find php, maybe the php-cli package isn't installed (or whatever they call this)	[18:39]
Simmi	yes, installed the pre-requisits	[18:39]
lphuberdeau	php5-cli will probably help	[18:39]
Simmi	Thx	[18:40]
lphuberdeau	feel free to update the install procedure ;)	[18:40]
Simmi	Haha.. sure, and I can also finnish Eistiens Theory of Relativity (his 1918 paper)	[18:41]
lizi	so... no one knows about the tiki logo original files ? something i can work with ? and where's chibaguy when i need him ? :D	[18:42]
Simmi	What abou the logo files?	[18:42]
lizi	well, I'd like something I can open in gimp that shows me lots of layers and effects :d	[18:44]
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Simmi	lizi: can't help - sorry.	[18:46]
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lizi	no pb :) I think I'll make one from scratch then :)	[18:48]
Simmi	lph: is there something I should check for in my paths?	[18:50]
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Simmi	Error for "make" (ssh2) can be found at http://sh.nu/p/25019 Error for "make instance" can be found at http://sh.nu/p/25020	[19:14]
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Simmi	lph: I made a post but you were offline. As follows (9:14:34 PM) Simmi: Error for "make" (ssh2) can be found at http://sh.nu/p/25019 (9:14:56 PM) Simmi: Error for "make instance" can be found at http://sh.nu/p/25020	[19:24]
lphuberdeau	wireless network dropped... sorry	[19:25]
Simmi	Haa, you must still be at TikiHouse Porto - lol.	[19:26]
lphuberdeau	for #2... you can edit the Makefile file and change the path to PHP...	[19:27]
Simmi	OK, will look at that.	[19:27]
lphuberdeau	for #1... try replacing ssh2.c with this one	[19:27]
Simmi	OK, will take me a little while.	[19:28]
	#1 works. now to #2 I have the makefile open, but nothing obvious stands out. is this the line I should change? PHP = php5 -d memory_limit=256M	[19:34]
lphuberdeau	yes changing php5 for just php should do it	[19:37]
Simmi	Gaahh.. I got now a different error and it said to install php5-cli. Funny I did this earlier..	[19:40]
lphuberdeau	strange	[19:41]
Simmi	So, install php5-cli - again. Now error is at http://sh.nu/p/25021	[19:41]
lphuberdeau	install php5-sqlite	[19:41]
Simmi	busy.....	[19:41]
lphuberdeau	at least now that's trim throwing errors ;)	[19:42]
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Simmi	getting close.. installed php5-sqlite. No change in error	[19:44]
lphuberdeau	type php -m then you might want to check /etc/php5/cli/php.ini to see if the extension is enabled actually... /etc/php5/conf.d/sqlite.ini	[19:45]
Simmi	OK, now asking for some details.. just checking tw.o install instructions.	[19:47]
lphuberdeau	php -i \| grep ini --- to see which config file is used	[19:47]
Simmi	Sorry, can I just get these questions completed it wants answers for?	[19:48]
lphuberdeau	oh right, I was stuck on the part where error persisted answering questions should be good if you got to that point	[19:49]
Simmi	What is the working directory. I told it the web root, servername, contact email, ssh user, hostname and passphrase Why a working directory and should that really be in my own home dir?	[19:49]
lphuberdeau	it's where trim will store some temporary files defaults are made to work on shared host . /tmp will do on dedicated hosts	[19:51]
Simmi	OK, setting to /tmp dang - made a mistake - just redoing (sorry - only human)	[19:52]
lphuberdeau	happens ;)	[19:53]
Simmi	OK, it is asking for authentiticty of the host @ 127.0.0.1 and do I want to continue connecting. is that a yes or a no? too late, typed yes.	[19:55]
lphuberdeau	yeah, that's just SSH asking most of the time, will be yes	[19:57]
Simmi	Now it says 'Write failed: Broken pipe. Testing Connection.	[19:57]
lphuberdeau	hmmm... you have ssh2 installed right? did you enable it in php.ini? (that's the kind of error it avoids)	[19:58]
Simmi	Just checking.	[19:58]
lphuberdeau	going offline for a few	[19:59]
Simmi	OK	[19:59]
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Simmi	lph: welcome bacl Listen, I am very tired, so I would like to call it a day on this till perhaps tomorrow. Is that OK with ya? lph: later..	[20:27]
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marclaporte	lizi: http://tikiwiki.org/TikiLogo	[20:59]
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