#tikiwiki 2009-03-03,Tue

(Click on time to select a line by its url)

Who	What	When
sylvieg1	I think it is a broken feature..	[00:00]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r17103 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-install.tpl: [ENH] Install steps terms improved, etc.	[00:00]
nkoth3	tarballs for testing, before we tag the real beta1: http://vps2.etazo.net/tikiwiki-3.0.prebeta1.zip http://vps2.etazo.net/tikiwiki-3.0.prebeta1.tar.gz http://vps2.etazo.net/tikiwiki-3.0.prebeta1.tar.bz2	[00:04]
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sylvieg1	the release is planned in April.... need to plan doc/ translation / debug ? one month...	[00:20]
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SEWilco2	sylvieg1: How to score a non-forum Article post? I think that wasn't working in 2.2; we fixed it locally but haven't had time to port to trunk.	[00:23]
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CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03campbe13 * r17104 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-install.tpl: [FIX] installer buttons	[00:56]
sylvieg1	my husband gets a job - begining next Monday - :-)]	[01:07]
chibaguy	great!	[01:07]
sylvieg1	yeh -- with the economy it was scaring	[01:07]
chibaguy	that's for sure.	[01:08]
sylvieg1	chibaguy: do you have a full time job now? 'full'?	[01:08]
chibaguy	No	[01:09]
sylvieg1	ok - so any theme job we can find must go to you	[01:09]
chibaguy	Have some possibilities, but nothing for certain. Heh, that would be nice, thanks. :-)	[01:09]
sylvieg1	tricia is going into the tw business - I will not be the only girl - good me too and if you check both it is not working +1 for marc we need only one and not an option but ... the ticket thing must not be optional mose's dead feature not really you find a 'bad' feature yeh +1 for tricia	[01:11]
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sylvieg1	if you activate the both csrf on a site - is it working	[01:21]
slordjette	Patricia, are you there ?	[01:21]
sylvieg1	was not working for me sebastian is a great tw user never afraid - always trying idea	[01:21]
slordjette	What's the topic ?	[01:22]
sylvieg1	and he did a lot of nice sites	[01:22]
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tricia	seb: yes crashed browser 'm back	[01:23]
sylvieg1	csrf security .. why it is optional - and why we have choice?	[01:23]
slordjette	Did you succeed with the menu ? I saw you made a few attempts... Back to square 1, I guess...	[01:24]
tricia	not yet, i get it to show up but still drop down we had 3 preferences sections now back into 1 but menu .......	[01:24]
slordjette	Any YAML specialist in tha house?	[01:24]
sylvieg1	do not give choice to an admin	[01:25]
tricia	no yaml-ers showed up	[01:25]
slordjette	Grrr	[01:25]
sylvieg1	security tw must take care of it	[01:25]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r17105 10/branches/3.0/lib/setup/prefs.php: [MOD] Turning off some features on a new install of the bare bones install. Relevant features will appear in appropriate profiles.	[01:25]
sylvieg1	BUT - personally I never understood the 2 choices perhaps I know btter now but the bos 'CSRF security' must dissapear box I am not a security person - I trust everyone you need to have an evil spirit to understand it is .. like you know where you come from - it is not fake so you can not genreate fake url i will go for Protect against CSRF with a ticket. in a core feature	[01:25]
slordjette	Tricia : you keep on trying or do you abandon?	[01:30]
sylvieg1	and delete the choice 'csrf security	[01:30]
tricia	one last try then it's yours	[01:31]
sylvieg1	but i am not an expert on security - i never find a security hole yeh	[01:32]
tricia	slordjette: it's all yours I want to throw it through a window	[01:33]
slordjette	Well, you are in the right room for that !	[01:34]
tricia	true but not a good idea, are you going to try ???	[01:34]
chibaguy	A few jquery quirks in branch 3 -- hide/show columns only changes side column display but not center column width; changing a jquery effect preferences also changes the theme to default.	[01:36]
slordjette	I'll continue tomorrow... I'll ask Louis-Philippe.	[01:36]
tricia	ok bonne idee	[01:37]
chibaguy	Tool tips over user names have no content.	[01:37]
sylvieg1	if slordjette can have lph back +1 sylvieg1 will work on parsing plugin tomorrow so wish lph help	[01:37]
marclaporte	marclaporte wonders where to play with feature_userlevels	[01:40]
sylvieg1	.. is it the menu option? look at the cnrs sites	[01:41]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03Jyhem * r17106 10/branches/3.0/installer/tiki-installer.php: [FIX] Get rid of double call of Smarty_Tikiwiki in some circumstances, and overall simplification	[01:42]
sylvieg1	the idea with user-level was to show to user - only menu options they can understans	[01:44]
marclaporte	great idea	[01:45]
sylvieg1	have a good dinne	[01:53]
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sylvieg1	do we have apge with all the top rated bu on tw? .. bad finger do we have a page with top bugs whatever the feature is?	[02:10]
marclaporte	yes, on right hand side of dev.tw.o You can sort bugs and people can vote with ratings many people put priority 9 however	[02:11]
sylvieg1	yes I know - I use it on feature basis - but I did not find something across feature - in fact I think I can have the info by myself	[02:13]
marclaporte	http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=All+Bugs	[02:14]
sylvieg1	thx	[02:15]
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sylvieg1	.. nice there is a glitch between persomal calendar and the perm - i ma onit	[02:24]
nyloth	i ma onit <= indian expression ? ;)	[02:27]
sylvieg1	i know I need to focus on typing - soory	[02:28]
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sylvieg1	dammit sorry	[02:28]
nyloth	no problem ;p	[02:28]
cratel	how do I enable the wysiwyg editor (v 2.2)	[02:28]
Caarrie	we just need a sylvieg1 spell checker ;)	[02:29]
sylvieg1	+1 for Caarrie	[02:29]
nyloth	:)	[02:29]
sylvieg1	cratel: admin->feature: experimental	[02:30]
cratel	why's feature? I'm new to tikiwiki. sorry, why=where. Where is feature? sorry. got it. doesn't look like wysiwyg to me at all. The text still has all the formatting codes rather than looking like the layout.	[02:31]
sylvieg1	goto to admin home --- then click on feature	[02:35]
Jyhem	once the feature is activated, I seem to remember that you need to choose wysiwyg in wiki config (not sure)	[02:35]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03nyloth * r17107 10/branches/3.0/lang/fr/language.php: [FIX] typo in french translation	[02:36]
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sylvieg1	jylem there is alot of options - tune your options nyloth needs to put volume on the micor must be closer s/on/on or	[02:39]
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sylvieg1	something is definitely broken with calendar ... selecting a calendar must not give the select calendar box..	[02:44]
Jyhem	I was answering cratel	[02:44]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r17108 10/branches/3.0/lib/setup/prefs.php: tikiwiki: [MOD] Change __Allow same file to be uploaded more than once__ default behavior tikiwiki: in file galleries from __Never__ to __Only in different galleries__ because it tikiwiki: can cause user support issues and most people won't need this.	[02:44]
sylvieg1	sorry Jyhem	[02:45]
nyloth	sylvieg1: I agree. I would prefer to have one button per calendar, which includes a checkbox inside it (before the calendar name) that allows you to hide/show the calendar in the current view well, I said button, but not necessarily a "button"	[02:46]
sylvieg1	i think the behavior was like that before	[02:46]
cratel	thanks everybody. I seem to have it working more or less.	[02:47]
nyloth	I don't remember, but it's my preference. I don't like to have a select box, and it's quite limited to just have buttons that only shows the calendar you clicked on	[02:48]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r17109 10/branches/3.0/lib/setup/prefs.php: [MOD] Wiki page printing is not an essential feature for the bare-bones install	[02:48]
sylvieg1	visible calendar must be the list of calendar place - clicking on a calendar must be I select it who has some cold> ?	[02:49]
Caarrie	Caarrie sends sylvieg1 some snow	[02:51]
sylvieg1	we had one feet last day	[02:52]
Caarrie	we got about 3 inches and schools closed :P	[02:52]
nyloth	sylvieg1: yep	[02:52]
sylvieg1	not too much but enough to freeze maschussetts infrastructure	[02:52]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r17110 10/branches/3.0/templates/module.tpl: [FIX] div.box overflow=y was always on instead of being set by module argument.	[02:53]
sylvieg1	Caarrie: where do you live Carolina?	[02:53]
Caarrie	North yep	[02:53]
sylvieg1	it is a lot of snow for north carolina we need one feet at least to close school	[02:54]
Caarrie	well we have had even more then that at one time this year	[02:54]
sylvieg1	marc ned s to document a lot all the profiles because it is so... case specific Caarrie: did you finish your school and are workin? or still learning?	[02:56]
Caarrie	still in school	[02:59]
amette	chibaguy: now comes the scary part.... ;)	[02:59]
Caarrie	Caarrie shouts BOO in an attempt to scare amette	[03:00]
amette	got a line for your hosts file: 78.46.199.145 themes.tikiwiki.org	[03:00]
sylvieg1	Caarrie: you are learning a lot .. I think	[03:00]
Caarrie	just taking my time ;)	[03:00]
amette	amette jumps back whew... that was only Caarrie ... ;)	[03:00]
Caarrie	;)	[03:00]
sylvieg1	Caarrie: when is your graduation?	[03:00]
Caarrie	i hope december	[03:00]
sylvieg1	cool one year - can do a lot in one year	[03:00]
Caarrie	yep	[03:02]
sylvieg1	wish you the best	[03:03]
Caarrie	thanks	[03:03]
sylvieg1	nyloth speak out - I can not understand - thx	[03:06]
nyloth	well, I usually don't speak loudly :)	[03:07]
sylvieg1	i understand but everybody is speaking here	[03:08]
nyloth	Btu as yuo can see it's possbile to undrestnad evne wihtout a prefcet message :)	[03:09]
Caarrie	:P	[03:09]
sylvieg1	:-) :'(need tiki_p_admin_calendar to create a personal calendar - bad	[03:09]
nyloth	sylvieg1: probably should we consider this as a bug ;)	[03:12]
sylvieg1	yeh as a long time bug	[03:13]
nyloth	probably	[03:13]
sylvieg1	like the user tracker - whe it is yours - it is yours - you can create - modify...	[03:15]
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sylvieg1	so who is the one who have a cold? name? stay awway..	[03:17]
amette	amette raises his hand sorry sylvieg1 - but don't fear, technology isn't yet far enough to transport viruses over video streaming afaik ;)	[03:18]
sylvieg1	:-) i do not care I am french - not like the american people fearing about all thebacteria	[03:19]
amette	:)	[03:19]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03Jyhem * r17111 10/branches/3.0/lang/ (35 files in 35 dirs): [FIX] Update translations after installer strings chnaged	[03:21]
sylvieg1	category perm will be like group perm - one categ perms can have the same view than group perm it will simplify so much code	[03:21]
amette	nyloth: tiki-login.php - line 326	[03:28]
nyloth	thx	[03:28]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03nyloth * r17112 10/branches/3.0/tiki-login.php: [FIX] tiki-login: assign_by_ref is using the second param by reference, so it needs to be a variable	[03:31]
	tikiwiki: 03Jyhem * r17113 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-install.tpl: [FIX] Handle release versions with spaces (like beta versions)	[03:39]
sylvieg1	admin can validate - I think sylvieg1 whishes to have simple database format - because this provpass is very ambigous waht clear the cache when you run the installer - I think it is missing	[03:41]
marclaporte	ok, I will clear cache manually	[03:45]
nyloth	sylvieg1: how do you translate this in French : "Configure the General Settings" ... we didn't found something very good here ?	[03:46]
sylvieg1	Mettre a jour les parametres generaux generaux globaux? desolee terminoly setting = confugaration	[03:47]
nyloth	terminoly seulement si fatigué ;p "globaux" is more a translation of "global", no ? hmm... well, I'll put "généraux" I think	[03:49]
sylvieg1	meere a jour la configuration generale dammit typing mettre I only pickup the translation that is already done - assuming that as a wiki vague - translation finishes to be the right one	[03:50]
nyloth	"Mettre à jour" implies existing settings... I think I'll put "Configurer les paramètres généraux" for the moment. If someone want to change after, no pb :)	[03:51]
sylvieg1	+1	[03:52]
nyloth	:)	[03:52]
sylvieg1	i appreciate pkdille job .. he homogenize a lot - a lot more to do	[03:55]
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sylvieg1	somthing is not working with paginatinion in list tracker	[03:58]
marclaporte	marclaporte is looking forward for jonny to come back have IE6 buggies	[04:02]
sylvieg1	?? 2 secs :-)	[04:04]
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Tikiwiki\|bot	??[x]: Usage: ?? <word> [> nick]	[04:05]
sylvieg1	ok I have one page of documentation about what happens whith registration/validationn status perhaps I can publish it it is a 'prvapss' dance or perhpas it is secret behavior for securyt rason wil do an email to admion	[04:06]
slordjette	What's that noise? Anyone knows what is the feature name of the "TikiWiki Assistant" module? Still messing with the profiles	[04:08]
marclaporte	slordjette: : look at system name of module	[04:13]
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marclaporte	tiki-admin_modules.php	[04:13]
sylvieg1	can not focus anylore - time for bed for me - good night	[04:13]
tricia	slordjette: hi I got it working to a point	[04:14]
slordjette	No way !	[04:15]
tricia	if drop down only at end I can have several singles, try it out	[04:16]
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slordjette	Yeah, I know... But this is not want we want... We can't adapt the message to technology, we must adapt technology to the message.	[04:16]
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slordjette	Still looking for that feature name... Assistant... Someone knows ? Is there a feature listing somewhere?	[04:23]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03Jyhem * r17114 10/branches/3.0/lang/fr/language.php: [ENH] No : at the beginning of next line tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r17115 10/branches/3.0/lib/setup/prefs.php: [MOD] Turning off __user watches translation__ in barebones install	[04:27]
marclaporte	slordjette: you want to deactivate module?	[04:30]
slordjette	Yes OK, Good night everyone ! See you tomorrow. Don't forget to clean up a bit if you want the clean-up guy to do the rest!	[04:30]
marclaporte	http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/Module+Handler	[04:32]
chibaguy	slordjette, good night. :-)	[04:33]
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nyloth	ricks around ?	[04:40]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r17116 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-editpage.tpl: [FIX] Wider edit comment textarea	[04:41]
nkoth3	we're about to package beta 1 for real. Any more final commits for beta 1?	[04:44]
marclaporte	drum roll please Beta1 is coming out!	[04:48]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03nkoth * r17117 10/branches/3.0/db/tiki-secdb_3.0_mysql.sql: [REL] SecDB for 3.0beta1	[04:49]
nkoth3	ok . final check: http://vps2.etazo.net/tikiwiki-3.0.prebeta1.zip http://vps2.etazo.net/tikiwiki-3.0.prebeta1.tar.gz http://vps2.etazo.net/tikiwiki-3.0.prebeta1.tar.bz2	[04:54]
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nkoth3	beta 1 packaging underway...	[05:29]
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lq_842	I've changed the _htaccess to .htaccess in order to get the rewrite rules and enabled sefurls, however my homepage still shows /tiki-index.php and the rewrites seem to work when I list pages but I can't access them can anyone provide some insight?	[05:31]
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chibaguy	lq_842, does www.example.com/HomePage work (I mean that url style?)	[05:32]
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CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03nkoth * r17118 10/tags/3.0beta1/: [REL] Tagging release	[05:32]
lq_842	no it does not. same thing as the others, 404 not found	[05:33]
marclaporte	iis or Aapche ?	[05:34]
lq_842	Apache	[05:35]
amette	AllowOverride set correctly in apache config to allow for .htaccess ?	[05:36]
lq_842	it's on a shared host. someone the other day showed me theirs worked on the host Blue Host, so I switched to them so I would think the settings are correct on the host it seems to rewrite the page names and all, except for the homepage but none of the links it writes work	[05:36]
chibaguy	What do you mean by 'links it writes'? Can you give an example?	[05:39]
amette	what do you mean by "it seems to rewrite the page names and all" chibaguy: :)	[05:39]
lq_842	when I list all pages in the wiki, it rewrites them as mysite.com/name1+name2+name3, however the page links do not actually work	[05:40]
amette	then the .htaccess is not being used by your installation ask your hoster, if you need to enable something or so	[05:41]
lq_842	it would have to be or it wouldn't perform the rewrite I thought?	[05:41]
amette	the .htaccess goes only in one direction... ... it makes mysite.com/HomePage go to mysite.com/tiki-index.php?page=HomePage without you noticing it...	[05:42]
lq_842	nevermind I just figured out it's the SEF option that rewrites the page names	[05:43]
amette	... Tiki rewrites the links	[05:43]
lq_842	do the rewrite codes on the rewrite rules wiki page work? I mean do they need updating of any kind?	[05:43]
chibaguy	lq_842, what TikiWiki version are you using?	[05:46]
lq_842	2.2	[05:47]
chibaguy	I think the .htaccess that's included in the version is up to date. (for that version)	[05:47]
lq_842	hmmm, I'll try downloading it again. I pasted the stuff of the website to try it	[05:49]
amette	you might want to try the newest beta - just about 58 minutes old	[05:52]
lq_842	will do! since the other didn't work also I'm talking with my host	[05:55]
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CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03nyloth * r17119 10/branches/3.0/lang/fr/language.php: more french translations tikiwiki: 03nyloth * r17120 10/branches/3.0/ (installer/tiki-installer.php templates/tiki-install.tpl): [MOD] installer: only propose profiles installation when tiki can connect to the profiles website	[06:04]
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lq_842	I have been assured they have mod rewrite enabled on all servers. Any other ideas?	[06:11]
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CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03nyloth * r17121 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-install.tpl: [FIX] installer: remove the 'By clicking Continue you agree to the terms of this license' sentence because the user can bypass this page anyway.	[06:17]
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lq_842	ok I got the rewrites working, except the main page still comes up as tiki-index.php do I have to add another rule of some kind to make it just mydomain.com/	[06:33]
chibaguy	not that I know of... http://tikiwiki.org/HomePage works but if you enter http://tikiwiki.org/ , it'll complete with tiki-index.php. Is that what you mean? If so, I don't know how to avoid that. time to go home here. will be back later.	[06:42]
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..... (idle for 21mn)
luciash	luciash re-poloms in good morning europa	[07:17]
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lq_053	any idea why I get a 404 error when trying to save a wiki page with sefurls enabled? The page saves, but still the error is annoying.	[07:20]
luciash	redirection bug	[07:23]
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lq_053	how can I fix it?	[07:28]
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lq_053	hey marclaporte, any idea why I get a 404 error when trying to save a wiki page with sefurls enabled? luciash says it is a redirection bug, any idea how to fix it?	[07:34]
marclaporte	you using structures?	[07:34]
lq_053	I use categories instead of structures	[07:35]
luciash	what do you see in the URL bar when receiving the 404 error ? good early morning marclaporte ! ;)	[07:36]
marclaporte	morning	[07:37]
lq_053	The requested URL /HomePage&bl=n&saved_msg=y was not found on this server.	[07:37]
luciash	marclaporte: congrats for releasing the beta, now the big fixes must continue ! lq_053: i see, there is ? needed instead of the first & lq_053: as a workaround you can adjust your rewrite rules to change first "&" to "?" when there's none	[07:38]
lq_053	lol more rewrite stuff ; ;	[07:41]
luciash	try with /HomePage?bl=n&saved_msg=y if you'll still get the error	[07:41]
lq_053	no that does fix it, you are right	[07:41]
luciash	sorry that i can't help you with building the regexp from top of my head currently now	[07:42]
lq_053	it's ok I'll be posting for help on the modrewrite.com forum anyway	[07:43]
luciash	fine :) you can share then ;)	[07:43]
lq_053	I'm reading through trying to figure out how to change it so that tiki-index.php just goes to my main site address	[07:43]
.... (idle for 18mn)
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luciash	lq_053: hold on	[08:07]
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lq_053	sup?	[08:12]
luciash	try this: RewriteRule ^(.*)tiki-index.php$ /$1 [R=301,L]	[08:12]
lq_053	gives me a loop error	[08:16]
luciash	maybe you'll need this before: RewriteCond %{THE_REQUEST} ^GET .*/tiki-index.php HTTP or you have to set in your apache conf that tiki-index.php is equiv to index.php, index.html, etc oh, in the RewriteRule should be a "" before the ".php" sorry	[08:19]
lq_053	still no good I tried with and without the condition and with and without the /	[08:24]
luciash	[08:25] <lq_053> yeah I typed it wrong ^^ I tried it correctly in the htaccess file though but i think you have only to tell apache to treat /tiki-index.php as / and it should work	[08:24]
lq_053	I'm on a shared host	[08:25]
luciash	ah, maybe there's another Rewrite rule for that....	[08:26]
	try DirectoryIndex tiki-index.php	[08:32]
lq_053	what do you mean try that?	[08:38]
luciash	put this in your .htaccess file	[08:38]
lq_053	k oh snap! that's awesome and so simple thank you	[08:38]
luciash	g was just a deduction ;) you're welcome	[08:39]
lq_053	maybe you can help me with one more thing. I want to change the tiki icon that shows up in the tab	[08:41]
luciash	favicon ?	[08:41]
lq_053	I've changed the icon file, favicon.png that is in the root directory but still the icon does not change	[08:41]
luciash	change it at Admin > L&F and clear all your browser cache	[08:41]
lq_053	I tried clearing the cache already I'll rename it and try that ok, all I had to do was rename it for it to work	[08:43]
luciash	what browser ?	[08:44]
lq_053	firefox	[08:45]
luciash	ok	[08:46]
.... (idle for 16mn)
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CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r17122 10/branches/3.0/styles/thenews.css: [FIX] CSS class .diffheader: oops, missing td	[09:16]
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marclaporte	yo jonnyb jonnyb: I found some IE6 bugs thought I would pretend they are related to jQuery So I could get you to fix them :-)	[09:25]
jonnyb	greetings - wasn't expecting anyone to be still (already?) up :D	[09:25]
marclaporte	I need sleep just preparing the day	[09:26]
jonnyb	go sleep - you guys had a busy day!	[09:26]
marclaporte	Beta1 is quite impressive	[09:26]
jonnyb	was the ie6 bug the pnghack thing? (i was just replying to it)	[09:26]
marclaporte	in 8 hours: http://tikiwiki.org/TikifestMontreal-meeting2009-March-03 dunno the cause 1- red button for edit help is not clickable 2- plugin edit helper doesn't work	[09:28]
jonnyb	ok, "see" you at the meeting - sweet dreams!	[09:30]
..... (idle for 21mn)
luciash	hi jonnyb 1- red button for edit help is still not optional :-/ luciash goes to read what jonny replied sure	[09:51]
jonnyb	hi luciash it was the pngfix thing i was planning on making optional	[09:55]
luciash	same here ;) i thought it's obvious from the thread	[09:57]
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jonnyb	me2	[10:00]
luciash	i propose to put another tab on look and feel called experimental too and put it there and the other tab can be merged with the first one i guess (only favicon there anyway)	[10:00]
jonnyb	i was thinking the stuff at the bottom of tab 2 could go to "other" (like use folders etc)	[10:09]
luciash	ah, ok, that's logical too	[10:10]
jonnyb	i'll make an experimental one - or maybe the "ui effects" jquery one should be renamed?	[10:10]
luciash	yup, that would be better maybe rename ui effects tab and put the correctPNG there too you can have fieldset named UI effects inside the tab	[10:10]
jonnyb	indeedy :) by the way - where has "user can switch languages" gone?	[10:12]
luciash	i think later we will need to rewrite the function bit to match only images having rel="fixpng" or something like that so it will be more stable jonnyb: it has accidentally disappeared by rick's revamping	[10:13]
jonnyb	i'll hunt it down...	[10:14]
luciash	(or class="fixpng") more revamping still on the way	[10:14]
jonnyb	:) don't you sleep?	[10:22]
luciash	jonnyb: we europeans do not sleep usually at this time of the day ;) i'm in czech rep.	[10:23]
jonnyb	ah - i thought you were in Canada do you think Marc meant the plugin edit forms when he said "2- plugin edit helper doesn't work" (on IE6)	[10:24]
luciash	hm, i think it stopped to work in IE6 recently :-p you know, the little icon next to the wiki plugin allows editing of plugin params	[10:26]
jonnyb	it (used to) depend on mootools, which would die if swfix was on now can use jquery so might be more cooperative	[10:26]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r17123 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-user_preferences.tpl: [ENH] Add explanation about feature_community_mouseover (because i hadn't understood it for all these years)	[10:33]
luciash	hmm, jonnyb, isn't it now even more confusing ? ;) actually what the checkbox does is that the user allows to be his info displayed in the mouseover tooltip	[10:35]
jonnyb	hmmmm?	[10:35]
luciash	when someone hovers his nick	[10:36]
jonnyb	i think it's a stupid preference i can understand not wanting to show _my_ info, but why not see other people's how would you put it? (i still have the file open)	[10:36]
luciash	it doesn't affect other's ppl mouseover, does it ?	[10:37]
jonnyb	yes - apparently	[10:38]
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luciash	if it works as you say, then maybe someone got annoyed by the mouseover popups of overlib and wanted to make use of site more pleasure without them for him, while admin still prefers to use them	[10:40]
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luciash	actually i think it was mose who added this user preference but i'm not sure :) jonnyb: when you think about it more it can really get annoying on bigger community site, so maybe it's not that stupid to have this user choice ;)	[10:42]
jonnyb	fair enough - so how to explain it best?	[10:45]
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jonnyb	meanwhile i have tiki-user-preferences.php doing WSoD when i save (dull!)	[10:45]
luciash	i'd put {tr}Displays users' info tooltip for every user who allows his information to be public{/tr}	[10:52]
jonnyb	but that's not what it does (afaict) hang on... you might be right :)	[10:55]
luciash	g	[10:55]
jonnyb	better than mine - i put it in in fact i'll replace both lines with: {tr}Displays users' info tooltip on mouseover for every user who allows his information to be public{/tr}	[10:56]
luciash	ok, just s/Displays/Display/ and maybe his/her ? ;) :-p	[11:00]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r17124 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-user_preferences.tpl: [ENH] Better wording for show_mouseover_user_info pref (thanks Luci)	[11:01]
jonnyb	2 late :)	[11:01]
luciash	oops, too late :)	[11:01]
jonnyb	i'm still getting white page when i save user prefs though - more imporantly do you?	[11:02]
luciash	luciash goes to check his new svn upped 3.0 branch	[11:02]
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luciash	jonnyb: i have to enable user prefs first ;)	[11:04]
jonnyb	mine's on a fairly old DB - like from a few weeks ago, so might be some mess in it	[11:04]
luciash	you can mysqldump and try fresh install over it then sql back	[11:05]
jonnyb	i will, but i'd like to know why	[11:06]
luciash	or just create fresh db and change in db/local.php the name	[11:06]
jonnyb	(this isn't even on my list!)	[11:06]
luciash	ah :) but you do db upgrades via the installer right ?	[11:06]
jonnyb	yup	[11:07]
luciash	hmm, a glitch, i just checked on the userPreferences feature and it says after apply: preference feature jquery disabled	[11:08]
jonnyb	my first step hmmm i've often found initialising new prefs a bit "odd"	[11:08]
luciash	i can fix it if you're lost	[11:09]
jonnyb	(btw, thanks for the pretty notifications on the admin - nice!)	[11:09]
luciash	i'm pretty familiar last days with these bugs np :)	[11:09]
jonnyb	i'm more worried about user-prefs dying - it's in the template somewhere	[11:09]
luciash	i hope it's not low memory limit	[11:10]
jonnyb	and i've never found a way to debug tiki smarty well	[11:10]
luciash	oh yep, the tpl looks broken from the first sight at the preferences screen you use web developer for FF ? extension you can easily check for xhtml validity by sending local file to the validator	[11:10]
jonnyb	do you mean the .tpl? cos there's nothing coming out of the browser when it fails	[11:12]
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jonnyb	hi Matthew	[11:12]
MatWho	hi	[11:12]
luciash	but it doesn't die with WSoD here after changing prefs	[11:12]
jonnyb	think it might be the evil mootools! :	[11:12]
luciash	hey MatWho you have them enabled ?	[11:12]
MatWho	is Montreal awake yet?	[11:13]
luciash	MatWho: i don't think so jonnyb: you have mootools enabled ?	[11:13]
MatWho	well good morning all you happy Europeans	[11:13]
luciash	good morning to the UK	[11:13]
jonnyb	didn't - tried it, still WSoD	[11:14]
luciash	i have mootools on btw i'll try to switch to jquery (can be both on ?)	[11:14]
jonnyb	should bo ok *be	[11:14]
luciash	it works with both enabled do you have ajax enabled ?	[11:15]
jonnyb	yup	[11:17]
luciash	that might be it	[11:19]
jonnyb	all experimental stuff off - most of everything else off, and still doing it...	[11:22]
luciash	hm, try clear the tiki cache then, i can't think anythink else than low php memory_limit causing this	[11:23]
jonnyb	did that mem set to 128MB don't worry - i'll get there - thx	[11:23]
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jonnyb	luciash: seems to be to do with the display_timezone pref - when it's set to "detect" or "site" i get WSoD - not if i pick a zone...	[11:34]
luciash	aaaah must be server related, it works for me	[11:34]
jonnyb	i also get 100s of notices about it	[11:35]
luciash	with "Detect user timezone if browser allows, otherwise default" Site default works for me too	[11:35]
jonnyb	where do you set site default? :P	[11:38]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r17125 10/branches/3.0/lib/tikidate-php5.php: [FIX] Fix timezone_open() failing with empty param	[11:39]
luciash	problem with tooltip is it displays blank tooltip, when pref feature community mouseover is disabled preference name: feature_community_mouseover	[11:39]
jonnyb	i know - but i can't set prefs here without WSoD, so i thought i better fix that first... (tangents! tangents!)	[11:42]
luciash	:) i think this will be hard to fix as it's server settings dependent it seems (or some bultin php function) and it doesn't show my avatar, bueheheh :)	[11:42]
jonnyb	the not showing empty tooltips thing should be easy... once i get there!	[11:51]
luciash	sure	[11:51]
jonnyb	i also had a missing avatar at one point... might be worth adding to the 3.0 page	[11:51]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r17126 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-admin-include-general.tpl: [FIX] 2 divs not closed (led to missing tab boxes in Safari)	[11:52]
sylvieg1	+1 luciash for th CSRF - I forgot the point	[11:56]
luciash	sylvieg1: np :)	[12:00]
..... (idle for 22mn)
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CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r17127 10/branches/3.0/lib/smarty_tiki/modifier.userlink.php: [FIX] Suppress empty user info jquery tooltips	[12:22]
	tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r17128 10/branches/3.0/lib/jquery_tiki/tiki-jquery.js: [FIX] JQuery tooltips (clueTips) not high enough z-index to show in front of admin panels - now set to z-index of 400	[12:27]
MatWho	I am listening to the MP3 of Jquery/quick tags conference call - so far the best Jonnyisums are - "coding till I cant see" and "It's always a bad idea to test when lots of people are watching" ;)	[12:34]
jonnyb	I thank you! 8)	[12:37]
MatWho	:)	[12:42]
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MatWho	lunch time see you soon ...	[12:57]
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CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r17129 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-user_preferences.tpl: [FIX] Notices (not fix my WSoD on save prefs when display_timezone is empty or Site)	[13:02]
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CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03sept_7 * r17130 10/third_party/htmlpurifier/ (324 files in 30 dirs): [UPD] HTMLPurifier update to 3.3.0 tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r17131 10/branches/3.0/tiki-modules.php: [FIX] Notices	[13:08]
sylvieg1	mouse over on user is broken for me	[13:12]
.... (idle for 17mn)
luciash	this is weird, i reinstalled database (not upgrade) but still i see my previously set stuff (even after all cache clear)	[13:29]
sylvieg1	there is als the SESSION	[13:29]
luciash	i cleared all two days ago it warked as expected still	[13:30]
jonnyb	hi syvlieg1 - user info how broken now?	[13:32]
sylvieg1	the < in the html are >....	[13:32]
jonnyb	ah - which browser? (Fx seems to work it out)	[13:33]
sylvieg1	firefox but I do not think it is a browser issue - the html code has been 'htmlspecial'...	[13:33]
jonnyb	on the mac it displays fine it needed some sort of encoding to live in the title attribute, that one seemed to work...	[13:34]
luciash	jonnyb: when i have mootools and jquery on, which one is used for shadowbox ?	[13:36]
ricks99	something broken/change with CODE plugin? on doc.tw.o all examples are now parsed? see: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/pluginversions#Usage	[13:36]
jonnyb	jquery (of course ;) )	[13:36]
sylvieg1	if ($prefs.feature_jquery_tooltips) { should be if ($prefs.feature_jquery_tooltips == 'y') ?{	[13:36]
luciash	jonnyb: jqueryTiki.replection = true; in head javascript section... is it a typo ?	[13:36]
jonnyb	sylvieg1 and luciash - both yes	[13:37]
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luciash	hi ricks99	[13:38]
ricks99	hi all: beta looks nice. good work all	[13:38]
luciash	ricks99: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Release30process#Blockers	[13:38]
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CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r17132 10/branches/3.0/lib/smarty_tiki/modifier.userlink.php: syntax	[13:40]
ricks99	its not just the hash.. it is acutally parsing (or is it all tied together)?	[13:40]
luciash	together	[13:41]
ricks99	k. also, version plugin is busted. :( if u have more than 3 versions, the "middle" version show all children :(	[13:41]
sylvieg1	it is normal that bu default feature_jquery is off and feature_jquery_tooltips is on I think my problem is that jquery is off and the other jquery feature are on	[13:43]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r17133 10/branches/3.0/lib/tikidate-php5.php: [FIX] Removed parameter from DateTime object constructor. "Z" (timezone) part was incorrect and causing error notice. Defaults to "now" but please watch out for this in other timezones.	[13:44]
luciash	ricks99: http://irc.tikiwiki.org/irclogger_log/tikiwiki?date=2009-03-02,Mon&sel=511#l507	[13:44]
sylvieg1	ok that the problem... jonnyb do you think it is better to test everywhere if ($prefs['feature_jquery_tooltips'] == 'y' && $prefs['feature_jquery'] == 'y') or it is better to have the sub feature turn off id jsquery is off?	[13:45]
ricks99	@luciash: none, sorry. been busy with 'real' life.	[13:46]
luciash	sylvieg1: +1 for the second option	[13:46]
jonnyb	sylvieg1: hmmm - i was going to say "yes" (to test both) but not sure now... i quite like it doing loads of stuff when you switch it on so me +1 for option 1 - anyone else?	[13:46]
luciash	hmmm :)	[13:48]
jonnyb	(i thought i had been doing it that way anyway - just missed some)	[13:48]
luciash	it should be checked like that anyway (option 1) otherwise it will crash when jquery disabled "crash" == meybe it degrades nicely but can cause problems ricks99: okay, np	[13:49]
ricks99	should all of those inline styles be moved to admin.css?	[13:51]
jonnyb	userlink is the only place that needs it, so adding $prefs['feature_jquery'] == 'y' && there now	[13:52]
luciash	ricks99: +1	[13:52]
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luciash	luciash wonders how he can now reinstall fresh database (except creating new one via mysqladmin) to test how it sees user after new installation	[13:53]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r17134 10/branches/3.0/lib/ (smarty_tiki/modifier.userlink.php tikilib.php): [FIX] test also jquery is on tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r17135 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-user_menu.tpl: [FIX] Notices	[13:54]
	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r17136 10/branches/3.0/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [ENH] pick user avatar: updated description string reflecting the reality (not only gifs are possible) + redirect to prevent resubmit on reload	[14:05]
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luciash	(ok, seems i've somewhat succeeded when logged out my admin first)	[14:13]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r17137 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-admin-include-look.tpl: [MOD]jquery: warn jquery feature must be on ad the sub setting are on by default tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r17138 10/branches/3.0/templates/modules/mod-calendar_new.tpl: [FIX] Notices	[14:15]
luciash	luciash wonders why there are in the db multiple Admin options in da menu at position 1050	[14:20]
sylvieg1	because if a user has only one option like admin users and no other one - you need to create the section so for each option below you need more or less an 'admin' section	[14:23]
luciash	ah, i thought for these are the permissions/sections separated by commas used	[14:25]
sylvieg1	permissions are a AND??? i think	[14:25]
luciash	on Admin > Menus tiki-admin_menu_options.php it's terribly hard to edit the menu 42 there when there are dozens of Admin menu options pointing to the same tiki-admin.php	[14:25]
sylvieg1	perhaps you are right luciash - need more test	[14:29]
FrankP_german	on my online server tiki3 database login not work tiki installer show blank page PHP 5.0.4, MySql 5.0.41	[14:32]
sylvieg1	did you check your apache error log?	[14:34]
luciash	sylvieg1: e.g. there are 3 Newsletters (ID 105,106 and 107) sections level 0, one has perm tiki_p_subscribe_newsletters, second has tiki_p_send_newsletters and third tiki_p_admin_newsletters... sylvieg1: couldn't there be one with the perms separated by comma ?	[14:34]
sylvieg1	I can not answer without testing..	[14:35]
luciash	ok	[14:35]
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luciash	i'm wondering about that because there are others which have, e.g. Received Pages (ID 46) has Permissions: tiki_p_view,tiki_p_admin_received_pages so i guess it should work and simplify the menu size and editing	[14:37]
sylvieg1	section is a AND .. a little stupid but ... and perm too.. not it will nto work	[14:38]
nkoth3	hi guys	[14:39]
sylvieg1	we need an option - it is OR or a AND between section / perms hi nkoth3	[14:39]
nkoth3	I won't be online much longer today, maybe 1 hour	[14:39]
ricks99	@luciash: hvave moved inline styles in admin: general and admin: login to admin.css. where to commit?	[14:40]
jonnyb	i also have to go out for an hour or so soon, but will be back fro the meeting thing later	[14:40]
sylvieg1	it was the same problem with groups - people were confused	[14:40]
luciash	sylvieg1: you mean Received pages can access only user with both of these perms, right ? ricks99: branches/3.0 hi nelson	[14:40]
ricks99	tx	[14:41]
sylvieg1	luciash: yes	[14:42]
luciash	it's little stupid, yes	[14:43]
sylvieg1	yes - I agree to change - but think it need an option for compatibility	[14:43]
marclaporte	ricks99: : you were missed these last few days	[14:43]
sylvieg1	or a message on devle list....	[14:43]
ricks99	tx. "real" life got in the way :)	[14:44]
marclaporte	hehe glad to see you back in fantasy world	[14:44]
sylvieg1	... a message on devel list and we hange the behavior? or somebody will use the AND behavior?	[14:45]
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FrankP_german	sylvieg1 : not items	[14:46]
s0nix	we can't use / slash in a internal link ? ((myStruct/myPage)))	[14:48]
luciash	s0nix: is your wiki page name "myStruct/myPage" ?	[14:49]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r17139 10/branches/3.0/ (2 files in 2 dirs): tikiwiki: [MOD] Put back theme drop-down so it doesn't change the theme without you clicking "apply". It does a post back onchange so you can select theme options. tikiwiki: Changed message displayed when drop-down showing theme other than the site theme as it was unclear before (suggestions gratefully recieved!). tikiwiki: Moved users change theme below theme option. tikiwiki: Would be better if you could preview themes before selecting... TODO	[14:49]
s0nix	yes but the link just doesn't regonize the page name	[14:49]
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luciash	s0nix: go to Admin > Wiki and select full format for wiki page names links	[14:50]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r17140 10/branches/3.0/lib/tikilib.php: syntax	[14:50]
sylvieg1	((myStruct/myPage))) is working for me - so it is the setting luciash spoke about	[14:53]
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MatWho	hi all	[14:53]
sylvieg1	hi	[14:53]
MatWho	is there anything going on in Monreal I should watch in on?	[14:54]
luciash	MatWho: currently no ustream	[14:54]
s0nix	luciash: hmm i'm looking for this option	[14:54]
marclaporte	marclaporte is home marclaporte will soon migrate to CGCOM	[14:54]
luciash	MatWho: evening 18:00 your time	[14:55]
MatWho	ok but I will look out for an announcement on IRC 18:00 is ok for me	[14:55]
s0nix	good, i selected "complete" and that's work. thx	[14:55]
marclaporte	in about 3h f*^&k so much to do :-)	[14:56]
luciash	marclaporte: tell me ;) marclaporte: re the mail: it's linked from DevTips	[14:57]
marclaporte	yay	[14:58]
luciash	(already was)	[14:58]
marclaporte	http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=TikiStringsFormatConvention I see no backlinks	[14:59]
luciash	weird	[15:01]
marclaporte	y	[15:02]
luciash	is baclinks on on dev.tw.o ? i bet it's off	[15:02]
s0nix	seriously... i don't understand why the pages are not handled using structure path automaticaly, that just ... very bad	[15:03]
luciash	because structures are not made SEFURL compatible, they use ref_id	[15:04]
sylvieg1	marclaporte: this is an old page....	[15:04]
s0nix	the use of page alias doesn't fix anything.... if the url doesn't include a &structure=... , the title at the top of the page is the entire page name... ugly	[15:04]
luciash	s0nix: you can switch the page titles off and put !MyPage at top of your wiki page marclaporte: you want backlinks on on dev.tw.o ?	[15:05]
ricks99	@luciash: u changed the doc.tw.o home page. instead of 2x2 boxeson home page, i now see 1 column. i think that makes the page too 'long'?	[15:08]
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luciash	ricks99: nope, it dynamically wraps... for higher monitor resolutions it's side by side... it was ugly on large monitor when done fixed 2x2 aligned on left and white space on right maybe the boxes are also too large ?	[15:09]
ricks99	ah... i h8 my small monitor maybe we don't need left & right cols? dont knowl...	[15:10]
luciash	ricks99: i have 1920x1200 resolution, you know ;) can you switch them off on doc.tw.o ? we can enable it	[15:11]
ricks99	have other doc.tw.o revmp ideas... new home page was onlystep 1 i personally like the big boxes-- makes it easy to figure out where to go. but now (on my montitor at least) "get help" is below the fold	[15:12]
luciash	hmm, marc, backlinks are on on dev.tw.o marclaporte: seems a bug ?	[15:14]
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luciash	ricks99: kind of like them too, but we should stay consistent with the site look and feel and with the other tw.o sites ricks99: maybe we can dogfood the fancylist wiki plugin	[15:15]
ricks99	i'd like to see the other sites revamped, too	[15:15]
luciash	i revamped dev.tw.o homepage bit already	[15:16]
ricks99	y. id like to see the three "what do u want to do" boxes moved up (and more graphical)	[15:17]
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s0nix	luciash: Is setting "/" as delimiter of wiki page display supposed to work? in a page link	[15:21]
luciash	s0nix: don't understand, syntax is ((WikiPage\|This link goes to my wiki page))	[15:23]
s0nix	ha, i'll specify the name like this also. thx	[15:23]
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luciash	dev.tw.o is somewhat unresponsive to me currently :-/	[15:24]
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marclaporte	I will tell amette	[15:25]
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ricks99	*rick wonders how easy it will be to translate "bare-bones " :)	[15:31]
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nyloth	Hi all :)	[15:31]
sylvieg1	hi	[15:31]
nyloth	Last TikiFest day :/	[15:31]
nkoth3	Hi all	[15:32]
luciash	hi nyloth :)	[15:32]
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Jyhem	polom	[15:34]
luciash	ricks99: not that bad, there are worse like "management" and "groupware" ;)	[15:34]
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nkoth3	I will try and stay online as much as I can, but text only. Depends on EV-DO network coverage. But $3 per MB once I cross the border means I can only send/receive "telegrams" lol.	[15:34]
luciash	polom Jyhem nkoth3: going to US ?	[15:34]
nkoth3	y	[15:35]
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ricks99	what's wrong with simply "default"?	[15:35]
nkoth3	bare-bones highlights that is is really skeletal - so users are encouraged to select another profile (there will be some more by release time)	[15:37]
luciash	dev and doc is another virtual machine each ? doc works, dev doesn't	[15:38]
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ricks99	maybe "minimal"?	[15:41]
nkoth3	+1^	[15:42]
luciash	why not	[15:42]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03ricks99 * r17141 10/branches/3.0/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [MOD]new css styles for admin ui revamp. removed the inline styles.	[15:42]
luciash	thx	[15:42]
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nyloth	We are wondering, here in Montreal, if the "assistant" module is usefull anymore. In fact, the default homepage should be enough... and the assistant can't be removed from profiles (which only add things, not remove)... anybody againt removing this module ?	[15:43]
Jyhem	still fighting the coffee machine :-(	[15:44]
nyloth	(well, at least not displaying it, not necessarily removing it completely from tiki)	[15:44]
ricks99	+1	[15:45]
luciash	+10	[15:46]
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luciash	oups :)	[15:46]
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Jyhem	well, what is in the assistant which could not be on the intro welcoming wiki page ?	[15:47]
nyloth	nothing ok, we'll remove it	[15:48]
luciash	you can even kil it completelly imho	[15:48]
nkoth3	do upgraders get neither/either assistant/welcoming page?	[15:49]
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nkoth3	i suppose if the answer is neither, kill the assistant	[15:49]
luciash	nope	[15:49]
ricks99	the only thing the module has.. identifies menu 42 as the deefault menu	[15:49]
nyloth	chibaguy, marc, amette, .... just arrived do the video will start soon I suppose s/do/so/	[15:50]
nkoth3	k, maybe they have views on the assistant	[15:50]
nyloth	sure ;)	[15:51]
nkoth3	"the assistant" sounds a bit like a name of a movie	[15:51]
Caarrie	hehe	[15:51]
luciash	luciash would love to rename the menu section Admin to Setup g	[15:52]
nyloth	luciash: not a so bad idea ;)	[15:55]
nkoth3	that would help to clear up the confusion between the "admin" and the "feature admin" pages... the filename can remain the same I think, could just be a label thing, right?	[15:55]
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luciash	you could say go to Setup > Admin > Wiki, not go to Admin > Admin home > Wiki (sounds wth ?)	[15:56]
tricia	imho feature admin should be feature activation confusing for newbies	[15:56]
luciash	nkoth3: yes, clicking the Admin section does only javascript togggle anyway now as the current tiki-admin.php almost exclusively sets up preferences, best for me would be Setup > Preferences > Wiki, but then the sorted menu will not allow "Preferences" on top	[15:56]
nyloth	luciash: well... for me there should not be Amin > Admin home > Wiki , but just Admin (or Setup) > Wiki	[15:58]
luciash	tricia: hmm, we have no "Feature Admin" now	[15:59]
tricia	nyloth: +1	[15:59]
nyloth	I don't understand why the content of 'Admin' menu is not the same as the Admin home	[15:59]
nkoth3	nyloth: +1	[15:59]
amette	yeah, that is really confusing for beginners...	[15:59]
regisb	Hello guys, will be with you soon	[15:59]
MatWho	hey I can see amette!	[15:59]
luciash	because of bad design obviously ;)	[15:59]
nyloth	hi regisb	[15:59]
nkoth3	well - in the sense of "Setup" yes.	[15:59]
regisb	Amette you look awesome!	[15:59]
MatWho	hi	[16:00]
nkoth3	but the contents of the admin menu has all other non-setup admin things	[16:00]
luciash	tiki-admin.php is somewhat different though... should be tiki-admin_prefs.php the others are already configuration of preferences you have enabled or viewing logs, so somewhat different tasks	[16:00]
nyloth	nkoth3: things that could not be accessible from the Admin home (not necessarilly directly at first level) ?	[16:00]
tricia	i guess what i mean is admin > features	[16:00]
nkoth3	well, another word you can use is "config" vs "admin"	[16:01]
ricks99	*rick thought "admin" = "administer", as in, "Administer the Features, Administer the Wiki" etc how does that differ from "config features, configure wiki, etc?	[16:02]
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luciash	ok, lets start with small steps ;) rename "Admin" section to "Setup" (or "System") ?	[16:03]
SEWilco2	SEWilco2 asks Igor about his opinion of the assistant	[16:04]
nyloth	I don't like "System"	[16:04]
chibaguy	good morning. streaming has started.... :-)	[16:04]
nkoth3	to me "to configure" is different from "to administer". "configure" is those things I do once when I first start using thre feature and rarely after. "Administer" are things I do more often.	[16:04]
luciash	ricks99: for me "configuration or administration" is done after you "set up a preference"	[16:05]
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ricks99	hm.. for me, setup is a one-time function	[16:05]
Caarrie	i agree ^^	[16:05]
ricks99	ie, the tikiwiki installler	[16:05]
luciash	yes, set up, anable/disable	[16:05]
Youcef	Hi all	[16:06]
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Jyhem	I just found an article on usability http://www.playingwithwire.com/2009/03/open-source-and-usability-joomla-vs-wordpress/	[16:11]
luciash	so maybe "System" i better :-p which could contain Preferences, Administration (the current tiki-admin_something.php), Security, SysAdm and Info or something like that hi Youcef also we don't have to stick with current Admin section but we can add one more called Setup and include every Preferences section there as menu item and the rest would stay in current Admin section	[16:11]
Youcef	I can see and follow the tikifest wawn super! Marc seems busy!	[16:14]
Jyhem	hi nahhh, Marc is just discussing. He does that a lot :-)	[16:14]
Youcef	I finished yesteraday coding the the spellchecher for research	[16:16]
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Youcef	I mean google-like research edit box i work fine with french and english	[16:16]
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Youcef	it*	[16:17]
hivemind	error: "toolbar set 'tiki' doesn't exist - WYSIWYG editor under firefox (don't get it under IE7) TW 2.2	[16:18]
Youcef	Hi Marc	[16:18]
amette	yo, what are you guys doing with doc and dev...?!? I have just turned my computer on and both sites die.... :O	[16:18]
pstjean	I haven't been able to access Dev all morning either	[16:18]
Youcef	i would like to have to your advice about the spellchecker for search in Tiki	[16:20]
amette	yeah, marc already told me that luciash told him and I already restarted and I don't know exactly what's up... :-/	[16:20]
Youcef	is it a feature that can be included in the v 3.0?	[16:20]
amette	... I'm working on it!! the database is going crazy... :O 99% CPU.. weird... ok, sites back up	[16:20]
Youcef	do you mean that you're working on this issue?	[16:23]
amette	yup, just finished working on it ;)	[16:23]
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luciash	k, sites back up, lets bring them down again ;) thx amette	[16:24]
amette	ROFL :P	[16:24]
hivemind	any ideas?	[16:24]
amette	you're welcome, bro	[16:24]
nyloth	sylvieg: about sefurl stuff (which is nice btw): why using a smarty filter instead of directly generating good links through buttons ? (just a question, no problem with that)	[16:25]
luciash	hivemind: sorry, nope	[16:25]
hivemind	nothing re: the WYSIWYG bug? dang	[16:25]
sylvieg	good link through button?	[16:25]
hivemind	think so. works fine in IE, notsomuch in Firefox (this is over an SSL connection if that matters)	[16:26]
slordjette	Sylvie, question for you.	[16:26]
sylvieg	nyloth: I do not understand	[16:27]
nyloth	sylvieg: smarty button could generate sefurl links directly, instead of tiki-something.php (or AJAX links) sylvieg: because in the current case it consumes more CPU to parse again the non-sefurl URLS	[16:27]
sylvieg	yeh but for a ref to a page in a wiki page? I will not do a button?	[16:27]
nyloth	no, but this could be handled inside the wiki parser, no ? well, it'was just a question btw ;⁾	[16:28]
sylvieg	there are 2 speeds for the sefurl 1) during parse 2) afterwards one day we will be using ony 1)	[16:29]
nyloth	sylvieg: yes, this is what I hope too :)	[16:29]
sylvieg	ah ok :-)	[16:30]
mycomputer	Hello everyone. I do understand the option "Trackbacks Pings" of blog administration, but I am not sure to understand the option "Post level trackback pings". Can anyone explain it to me?	[16:37]
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chibaguy	mycomputer, sorry, no idea. Did you check the blogs info at doc.tikiwiki.org? Otherwise, I guess you could do a few tests with your install to see what the behavior is.	[16:40]
mycomputer	Thanks chibaguy for your answer : I looked at doc.tikiwiki.org indeed. I will make some tests (later)	[16:41]
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nyloth	nkoth3: around ?	[16:43]
nkoth3	y	[16:46]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03nyloth * r17142 10/branches/3.0/db/ (7 files): [MOD] new installs: do not display assistant module in default installation. Every information can be put in homepage and assistant module cannot be removed from profiles.	[16:48]
amette	mycomputer: afaik trackback pings code is not in Tiki right now as the implementation was a security risk - need to recode it with another library	[16:48]
nyloth	nkoth3: as you may have seen, sept_7 has updated HTMLPurifier, which is a good thing. But this make me think that we have to add, in the release process, the freeze of external subversion links (I mean: modify the svn properties to look for a specific/fixed revision of each external links, even our third-parties)	[16:49]
mycomputer	amette: so it's useless to activate this option for the moment?	[16:49]
amette	mycomputer: I afraid so, yes.. :( but test it, probably someone fixed it in between and I didn't notice	[16:49]
mycomputer	amette: OK. thanks a lot for your answer	[16:50]
amette	but if it doesn't work, then don't put too much time into it yw	[16:50]
nkoth3	nyloth: yeah, that's an interesting situation. it might not seem right to ship with the non-latest version of external libs, but if the external lib upgrade is close to release, it needs to obey the freeze. Unless of course the new version of external libs fix security problems, for e.g. then it is a blocker for release.	[16:52]
nyloth	nkoth3: yes. Because if we do not freeze those external libs, we may update one of them to a new API that is not supported by the stable branch nkoth3: but this freeze may either be done now or before the candidate release	[16:56]
nkoth3	nyloth: i don't know enough about the each external lib to say what is the correct answer, but in general my impression is that given our svn externals, we should be pulling from the external projects' stable branch, right? If that is the case, then any upgrades are likely just bug fixes with little risk at this stage. So freeze at RC seems enough. But I am not sure of each of the libs we use	[16:59]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r17143 10/branches/3.0/lib/tikilib.php: [FIX]TRACKERLIST: trackerlist with popup was not working because parse_first was replacing with . I do not see why this replacement is useful	[16:59]
sylvieg	this commit will probably have side effect - if it has, I will rewrite the smarty popup freeze extarnal lib - we never know if it is security fix....	[16:59]
SEWilco2	nyloth: I added the SEFURL smarty filter as an option to help catch unprocessed links.	[17:01]
nyloth	SEWilco2: I understand, no problem. But we should update smarty button and other parts of the code to be able to remove this post parsing after that	[17:02]
SEWilco2	nyloth: The filter is for people like me that want to map more URLs and don't care about extra CPU usage. (my cache helps)	[17:02]
nyloth	sylvieg: in fact we should have third_party/3.0/... instead of third_party/...	[17:02]
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SEWilco2	nyloth: I don't understand the meaning of "smarty button". nyloth: My understanding is that code has to be manually altered for each emitted URL. When that is completed for a URL type, the redundant rule could be removed from the filter.	[17:03]
sylvieg	nyloth: yes but it will be painful to manage - or you think it is easy?	[17:04]
nyloth	SEWilco2: there is a smarty plugin named 'button' which is used in templates to generate nearly all links (at least those who are displayed as buttons). They are in charge of building a standard link (tiki-index.php) or an AJAX link, etc.... and it should also handle sefurl	[17:04]
SEWilco2	nyloth: The button sounds helpful.	[17:05]
nyloth	sylvieg: I think it's easy to create (just svn copy at the release), but more work to update them separately	[17:05]
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sylvieg	I suppose it is easy to call filter_out_sefurl on each link in button	[17:05]
nyloth	sylvieg: yes	[17:06]
SEWilco2	Maybe third_party/3.0 should be used for stuff which requires 3.0?	[17:07]
nyloth	I'm looking for a solution to have a translated HomePage after install... If we add a tra() around the content of this page in tiki-index.php (which creates it), it will be a translated content inside a page named HomePage (and not, for example, 'Accueil' in french). What do you think ? any other suggestion / solution ? SEWilco2: yes maybe	[17:07]
sylvieg	and why not having the homepage content in language.php as we do for the date format already	[17:08]
nyloth	sylvieg: if I add a tra() around the content, it will be in language.php, yes	[17:09]
sylvieg	because the have this big left side ... will be painful but ok	[17:09]
nyloth	oh, ok, you mean... only in language.php, not at all in tiki-index ? I would prefer not to have the whole content in tiki-index	[17:09]
sylvieg	idea not sure it is good	[17:09]
nyloth	sylvieg: no, in fact I like the idea sylvieg: I'll do this	[17:10]
sylvieg	tra(HOMEPAGE) and "HOMEPAGE"=>"tototsdfsdfs"	[17:10]
nyloth	sylvieg: but the problem of the pagename still occurs	[17:10]
nkoth3	sylvieg, nyloth: i like it too --- trying to think if any problem.....	[17:10]
sylvieg	buit we need a lang/en/langue.php yeh page name :_(	[17:10]
nyloth	sylvieg: sure sylvieg: but it already exists	[17:11]
sylvieg	but it can be empty and deleted for perfmormance reason	[17:12]
nkoth3	does tra handle links ok?	[17:12]
nyloth	sylvieg: do you suggest translation HomePage only when displaying (which is already done I think) or even when creating the page (so change the name that will be in database) which might be a problem if there is things that are looking for "HomePage" in the code... ?	[17:12]
marclaporte	sylvieg: : do you remember about an old script which would check withing tiki code for all external links to doc.tikiwiki.org/XYZ, which was used to help detect/fix links?	[17:12]
sylvieg	need to think about this a little bit	[17:13]
nyloth	sylvieg: ok, I come back in 5 min ;)	[17:13]
SEWilco2	I'm streaming both TF and a radio show. Sounds like WKRP on a bad day.	[17:14]
marclaporte	maybe default content page on HomePage should be handled by profiles nowadays?	[17:14]
nyloth	marclaporte: maybe, but this is probably not possible for 3.0 marclaporte: and we still need a default value for cases where there is no internet connection / profiles	[17:15]
marclaporte	good point	[17:16]
nyloth	the problem is that there is only one HomePage (and not one for each languages, which would be nice when the user changes the language) and creating it with a specific language might be problematic another idea: creating the HomePage content that uses a wiki plugin that will translate the content automatically so.. not using tra(), but a wiki plugin this way, we do not need to create pages for each languages, but just one special HomePage (which name is already translated btw) so, after a new install, the language switching will work for HomePage	[17:17]
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nyloth	any comments ?	[17:19]
nkoth3	what's the advantage of this over tra?	[17:21]
nyloth	nkoth3: the advantage is that the page will change the content to reflect the language switching... instead of being created only in one fixed language	[17:22]
nkoth3	well, I was thinking that if we tra() from --HOMEPAGE-- or something, that would allow the page to be created in any language too. However, this requires every lang file to have --HOMEPAGE-- default translation in it...	[17:25]
nyloth	nkoth3: yes, but I meant that with tra() the page will be created, for example, in French... and after the installation is done, if the users switch to German, the content will still be french for the HomePage. nkoth3: with a translation wiki plugin around the page content, it will then be displayed in German	[17:26]
nkoth3	right.	[17:27]
Youcef	the translation issues interest me and I've a suggestion for this	[17:27]
nyloth	In fact, the right way to translate pages is to use the one page per language and link them together through the translation system... but this is too heavy for the HomePage... (creating 50 pages ?) ... So I prefer a wiki translation plugin for this special case	[17:28]
Youcef	how about to translate documents as we so for messages strings	[17:28]
nyloth	Youcef: I don't see what you mean	[17:29]
Youcef	I mean we have may be to translate document (before installation)	[17:29]
nkoth3	I think the translate plugin nyloth suggests achieves this. Would it still make use of tra though?	[17:32]
Youcef	ok, i try to clarify it again i think we have to deal with home pages as strings messages when tiki switch to a new language, it automatically select the right language.php for the new language may be we have to do the same with the home pages	[17:32]
nyloth	nkoth3: yes	[17:32]
nkoth3	Youcef: yes. I think what nyloth is suggesting achives this	[17:32]
nyloth	I think so too	[17:32]
nkoth3	I kind of imagine we may already have a translate plugin. lol	[17:33]
nyloth	nkoth3: maybe ;p	[17:33]
Youcef	ok	[17:33]
ricks99	q: on admin: text area, why do some plugins have a checkbox, and others (like catorphans) not?	[17:33]
nyloth	lib/wiki-plugins/wikiplugin_tr.php	[17:33]
Youcef	what make the difference of the this pluging and changing the messages languages?	[17:33]
nyloth	:) Ok, I'll try with this plugin :)	[17:33]
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nkoth3	Youcef: the difference is that messages is in the code, and the homepage content is in the db	[17:34]
Youcef	if it do the same, that's great	[17:34]
nyloth	Youcef: yep :)	[17:34]
Youcef	BTW, i've a question	[17:34]
nkoth3	it does the same, but for "content" vs. template strings	[17:35]
paberggren	i have a quick question when you are ready...	[17:35]
Youcef	i need to implement a php script, and need to retreive the active language	[17:35]
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nyloth	Youcef: echo $prefs['language']; // ?	[17:36]
Youcef	are there any function in the api to know which language is selected?	[17:36]
nyloth	sylvieg: any comment about the HomePage translation through wiki tr proposal ?	[17:37]
sylvieg	no eral bettter idea	[17:37]
Youcef	thanks so much now, i've a suggestion about some inconsistency in languages' names	[17:37]
sylvieg	(in fact I have homepage - because if you delete it it come back s/have/hate	[17:38]
paberggren	is it possible as an admin to make some parts of the wiki private while most are public?	[17:38]
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marclaporte	meeting in 30 mins...	[17:39]
sylvieg	paberggren: it is on my list of things to do	[17:39]
nkoth3	how about simply configuring category perms?	[17:39]
MatWho	how do I join it, with skype?	[17:39]
chibaguy	paberggren, if you mean some wiki pages private and others not, that's already possible. I think sylvieg is referring to content within one page.	[17:39]
paberggren	tnx - where do I look in the admin section?	[17:39]
Youcef	sylvieg : I'm wondering how you'll translate home page with the pluging?	[17:39]
marclaporte	: MatWho: http://tikiwiki.org/TikifestMontreal-meeting2009-March-03	[17:40]
paberggren	yes - some pages private, most pages public	[17:40]
nkoth3	someone, point to the relevant doc page? I am barred from using my browser,...	[17:40]
chibaguy	paberggren, you assign access permissions to the group you want to have see/edit, etc.	[17:41]
paberggren	chibaguy: of course - thnk you!	[17:41]
sylvieg	paberggren: ah soory I am thinking of different edit sections in a single wiki page	[17:41]
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sylvieg	(sorry it is because I have this problem in mind that I misunderstood)	[17:42]
chibaguy	See doc.tikiwiki.org for info on setting permissions, etc.	[17:42]
nyloth	hi jonnyb	[17:42]
chibaguy	:-)	[17:42]
jonnyb	hi all	[17:42]
paberggren	chibaguy: OK thanks!	[17:42]
chibaguy	thanks for thinking about that, sylvieg	[17:42]
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MatWho	hi jonnyb	[17:43]
amette	ah, forgot to mention - doc and dev are svn upped	[17:43]
jonnyb	i'll record the skype conf call, like last time if no one else is	[17:44]
nyloth	jonnyb: just a suggestion about the way jquery was added to subversion : IMO, it should have been committed into third_party branch, not in each branches. It should use external links in those branches, like it's done for smarty, phplayers, jscalendar, and so on jonnyb: but no urgency for 3.0	[17:45]
jonnyb	yes, i did consider that - but it's not really a single package (jquery itself is just 2 files) so i wasn't sure that was a good way to do it also it means we can run one version for release and another in trunk if needs be...	[17:46]
chibaguy	jonnyb, I added a few jquery items here: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Release30process#jQuasiblockers_jquery_things_	[17:46]
jonnyb	yummy :D	[17:47]
chibaguy	:-) In case you've nothing else to do.....	[17:47]
sylvieg	ah louis philippe - if you can check my last commit http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki/branches/3.0/lib/tikilib.php?r1=17140&r2=17143 - I suppose you know why this line is here	[17:47]
nyloth	jonnyb: ok. I saw much more than 2 files, this is why. Probably not from jquery main code then.	[17:48]
jonnyb	(looks for roll-on-floor-laughing smiley)	[17:48]
sylvieg	:-) I know lph is on 'vacation' :-)	[17:48]
chibaguy	:-)	[17:49]
nyloth	sylvieg: lph won't probably anwser...	[17:49]
sylvieg	if I do not ask - I will not have...	[17:49]
jonnyb	yes nyloth - it's about 6 things joined together - including jquery.ui and the tooltips etc plugins i put a readme file in to explain the layout (so no one will read it ;) ) but will adapt or change it if others think it could be better i tried to aim for minimum maintenance chibaguy: i fixed two of them this morning, have plans for the others (and added a couple myself!)	[17:49]
nyloth	jonnyb: ok	[17:51]
chibaguy	thank you	[17:51]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r17144 10/branches/3.0/lib/wiki-plugins/wikiplugin_tag.php: [SEC] wikiplugin_tag: secured to allow only tags without attributes	[17:52]
sylvieg	nyloth: one thing I do not like with homepage - if your default is article - and you have no wiki default - the homepage is created again after for example delete of a page. I do not like it...	[17:54]
nyloth	sylvieg: yes, the homepage should be created once, at installation time, and not in tiki-index.php	[17:56]
sylvieg	ok we agree	[17:56]
nyloth	but changing this is probably too late for 3.0	[17:56]
sylvieg	yeh next release	[17:57]
nkoth3	note that tiki-editpage.php also returns homepage if no page specified, so removing this is not completely trivial yeah	[17:57]
nyloth	I think I'll do a small hack for HomePage translation in 3.0, rollback if you don't like To precise, the hack might be to use 'en' translation of the homepage content (let say '_HOMEPAGE_CONTENT') in tra() if there is no translation available in the language required because we don't want to have _HOMEPAGE_CONTENT_ that displays in every languages that doesn't have a translation	[17:57]
pascalstjean	Conference call will begin shortly if you would like to be added please contact me via skype skype ID = pascalstjean	[17:59]
nyloth	well... I'll see	[18:00]
pascalstjean	I'll gladly add you to the conference call	[18:00]
nkoth3	I need close captioning. :)	[18:01]
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MartinCleaver	Howdy Tiki-ers	[18:02]
nkoth3	no - too expensive	[18:02]
MartinCleaver	Q: I note that UsersLib extends TikiLib and that the event of successful login is instigated through routines validate_user and validate_user_cas ; Does Tiki allow the administrator to specify a subclass of UsersLib to be used?	[18:02]
nkoth3	roaming too expensive Hi MartinCleaver nkoth3= Nelson	[18:02]
MartinCleaver	Some one's not on Skype!! y, I figured!	[18:03]
nkoth3	roaming... expensive	[18:03]
MartinCleaver	hence not on Skype?! you are in Montreal?	[18:03]
nkoth3	many TIki people are in Montreal -	[18:03]
MartinCleaver	for the Fest	[18:03]
nkoth3	but I had to take a train to US today.	[18:03]
MartinCleaver	aha This bit above is an extract from an email to you...	[18:03]
nkoth3	Anyway, I am not sure about the answer to your Q. Maybe someone else knows. But userslib don't look to me like a first class php5 object to me	[18:04]
MartinCleaver	Ok - will send you the email as is...	[18:05]
nkoth3	I mean it was written in the php4 era i won't be checking email till late tonight though	[18:05]
MartinCleaver	Y, PHP. bluegh. php5 is much better but still :) hopefully someone else will have an answer MartinCleaver nudges marclaporte and regisb and amette I'm thinking to extend UsersLib and overrides the validate_user_cas routine with one that wraps super->UsersLib::validate_user_cas with the bits we need to override.	[18:05]
nkoth3	sounds theoretically possible. I don't know. btw, a conference call was starting just before you joined the irc chat room.... so people might be engaged in that	[18:08]
MartinCleaver	ok	[18:09]
chibaguy	Anyone watching ustream video, is sound ok? http://www.ustream.tv/channel/tikifests	[18:09]
MartinCleaver	MartinCleaver goes back to hack-and-slash	[18:09]
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chibaguy	http://tikiwiki.org/TikiFestMontreal2009	[18:09]
MartinCleaver	Nelson: tiki-setup_base.php:$userlib = new UsersLib($dbTiki);	[18:10]
luciash	chibaguy: is cool	[18:10]
MartinCleaver	that's where it kicks off	[18:11]
amette	heya MartinCleaver :)	[18:11]
chibaguy	heh, sorry about the video glitch (tripod leg collapsed)	[18:11]
MartinCleaver	howdy amette ! wow. the code base is quick an adventure	[18:11]
jonnyb	jonnyb tries out an action woo! such a n00b ;)	[18:13]
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luciash	just a note for the skype conference call ppl: you can click the little mic icon to mute your mic when you don't want to actually talk	[18:14]
pascalstjean	agreed it will have better overall sound for everyone	[18:15]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03lphuberdeau * r17145 10/branches/3.0/lib/profilelib/installlib.php: [FIX] Menu handler to nest menus correctly	[18:16]
chibaguy	Skype conference call starting. Ustream and IRC also for nonskypers.	[18:17]
luciash	weird skype call is somewhat quiet by the last man talking	[18:18]
MatWho	no sound	[18:18]
jonnyb	well that went well! :)	[18:18]
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MatWho	help I got cut off	[18:19]
Tikiwiki\|bot	Welcome to the official Tikiwiki English Irc Channel. TikiWiki or better known as TW, is your Groupware/CMS (Content Management System) solution, you can get more infomation at http://info.tikiwiki.org/ .	[18:19]
MatWho	:)	[18:19]
m_stef	hi guys.	[18:20]
luciash	why the call was drop ?	[18:20]
pascalstjean	not sure	[18:20]
MatWho	gone again	[18:20]
luciash	ok	[18:20]
marclaporte	please see: http://tikiwiki.org/TikifestMontreal-meeting2009-March-03#Agenda	[18:21]
MatWho	yes	[18:21]
sylvieg	yes	[18:22]
wikiman	Eric here.	[18:22]
slordjette	Hi everyone	[18:22]
luciash	weird is i hear better from the one with phone on the ustream channel than from my skype	[18:22]
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MatWho	this is so exciting I can hardly sit still!!!	[18:23]
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luciash	g	[18:23]
chibaguy	MatWho, feel free to pace about...	[18:23]
luciash	who is the phone number ? :-p	[18:23]
MatWho	ok .... pace .... pace ... bump ..... pace ...	[18:24]
amette	chibaguy: I got it - it was a clear case of "Houston, we have two problems" ;)	[18:24]
MatWho	:)	[18:24]
amette	first needed to disable TCP-checksumming due to Xen-bug and then disable Apache's Sendfile systemcall usage due to the documentroot being mounted via NFS now it should be rather ok - first load still takes a bit, but then it runs nicely :)	[18:24]
luciash	can't hear well when the "phone number" talks :-p or speaks g	[18:25]
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chibaguy	ah, ok, amette, thanks....	[18:25]
amette	now we need to figure out the themes to install and find a way to make it easy for you to install new ones..	[18:26]
chibaguy	yes, much faster	[18:26]
amette	great :)	[18:26]
chibaguy	(amette is tuning new themes.tw.o server)	[18:26]
amette	(yup)	[18:27]
luciash	good idea :)	[18:27]
amette	luciash: you can test with /etc/hosts entry: 78.46.199.145 themes.tikiwiki.org	[18:27]
luciash	marc will participate in da call ?	[18:28]
amette	yup	[18:28]
luciash	amette: kewl	[18:28]
pascalstjean	here we go	[18:28]
MatWho	legibility index is at 3 out of 10	[18:29]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03nyloth * r17146 10/branches/3.0/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [ENH] default HomePage translation: allow translators to translate the default homePage by translating '_HOMEPAGE_CONTENT_' string in lang/*/language.php	[18:29]
luciash	if marc is the "phone number" talking i can hear him very badly, others ppl audi is perfect	[18:30]
jonnyb	sounds good to me	[18:30]
luciash	*audio even	[18:30]
MartinCleaver	nkoth3__: y.t. ?	[18:30]
amette	what frickin' "phone number talking" do you actually mean?	[18:30]
MatWho	yes he means the phone in from the conference phone in your room sounds rubbish	[18:30]
amette	ah, ok... hmm.. :-/	[18:31]
luciash	i can hear you very quietly, marc, but if others are ok, i'll try to adjust my volume up	[18:31]
amette	luciash: you were _really_ silent here, too - we hear others rather clean and loud	[18:31]
MatWho	marc get closer to phone or get phone closer to marc	[18:31]
amette	wow - marc already speaks rather loudly!! :-/	[18:32]
luciash	amette: ah, thanks for letting me know	[18:32]
amette	yw	[18:32]
luciash	i think i have to put volume from ustream broadcast up again to be able what you talk about guys .-/	[18:33]
jonnyb	only getting about 10% of this	[18:33]
amette	you guys probably don't really hear jyhem now, right? ouch, fuck... :(	[18:33]
sylvieg	not very much	[18:33]
pascalstjean	the Mic we are using for USteam is much better	[18:33]
luciash	:D	[18:33]
sylvieg	yes	[18:33]
pascalstjean	we are trying to fix it once sec	[18:33]
MatWho	The conference phone keeps cutting out get closer to it	[18:33]
sylvieg	the ustream sound is better	[18:34]
luciash	about 5 seconds 3-5 seconds	[18:34]
sylvieg	I headr everything - but I needed to concentrate +1 perfect	[18:34]
pascalstjean	ok USteam and Skype at the same time please try both	[18:35]
luciash	the problem is when i have ustream sound up i hear everything twice :-p	[18:35]
pascalstjean	and use what works best	[18:35]
jonnyb	that's good for me	[18:35]
sylvieg	ustream is 1 minutes later - not real time	[18:35]
pascalstjean	ok	[18:35]
luciash	i think i'll mute my skype output ;)	[18:36]
pascalstjean	for some USteam doesn't have that long of a delay	[18:36]
marclaporte	FYI: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Roadmap	[18:36]
MatWho	audibility index is 4 out of 10	[18:36]
marclaporte	4 major points: 1- Calendar releases, 2- Stable downloads, 3- Trunk, releasable at any time, 4- Experimental branches	[18:36]
MatWho	no sound	[18:36]
nyloth	and : http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Where+To+Commit	[18:37]
nkoth3__	pascalstjean - there is a phone number people can call?	[18:37]
pascalstjean	long distance yes	[18:38]
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pascalstjean	one sec guys we are trying out	[18:39]
amette	we're trying to fix it by coming into the skype call with the good UStream mic	[18:39]
chibaguy	ustream will be down for a minute while mic is switched.	[18:39]
sylvieg	am i the only to no sync between skype and ustream - ustream is about 30s late	[18:39]
jonnyb	good plan	[18:39]
MatWho	The phone you are using is not designed for conferences, it will cut off the microphone when the speaker is operation, to stop it howling. You need a special conference phone.	[18:39]
luciash	sounds of future ;)	[18:40]
jonnyb	:O	[18:40]
amette	;)	[18:40]
MatWho	ustrean gone now	[18:40]
nyloth	sylvieg: yes, Ustream is very slow	[18:40]
MatWho	ustream	[18:40]
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sylvieg	good to have somebody with a cough - at least we know we are still connected	[18:42]
amette	LOL :P I do my very best ;)	[18:42]
jonnyb	me too	[18:42]
sylvieg	keep on the good job	[18:42]
amette	:)	[18:43]
Jyhem	back online :-)	[18:43]
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MatWho	pace ... pace ...	[18:43]
sylvieg	pace for me too	[18:43]
MatWho	:)	[18:43]
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m_stef	interesting feeling to have you all - here at home.	[18:44]
amette	:)	[18:44]
chibaguy	ustream back up. laptop mic being used (which accounts for the thumping sound -- keyboard)	[18:44]
amette	how's sound now?	[18:45]
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mib_99ebep	hello guys iam katz_kul and nothing is currently being broadcasted	[18:45]
luciash	for me the same, but i can hear a bit :-/	[18:46]
chibaguy	http://www.ustream.tv/channel/tikifests	[18:46]
mib_99ebep	yup same url	[18:46]
chibaguy	http://tikiwiki.org/TikiFestMontreal2009	[18:46]
amette	wuh? weird... so it's skype and not the microphone that's the problem...?!?	[18:46]
marclaporte	A * calendar releases B * a stable, bug-free version available for download C * a dev version suitable for use at any time D * the possibility to add major improvements through branches which are merged afterwards E * that backward compatibility must be maintained (3 rules, etc.) F * having more built-in features than any other comparable app G * Very open contribution policy, people can commit things that are not always future-proof	[18:46]
luciash	seems so, maybe skype for linux handles phone calls badly while skype calls are good ?	[18:47]
sylvieg	somebcan you hear me?	[18:47]
luciash	no idea	[18:47]
sylvieg	yes ok	[18:47]
pascalstjean	yes please repeat we can hear you	[18:47]
nyloth	woaoo	[18:47]
luciash	i'll better write and hear ustream channel	[18:47]
nyloth	hard to understand here	[18:47]
mib_99ebep	now i hear	[18:48]
sylvieg	the 3 rukles are working - no need to chage	[18:48]
luciash	(skype crashed)	[18:48]
amette	I agree with sylvie	[18:48]
nyloth	well, IMO this is not to replace the 3 rules	[18:48]
pascalstjean	im' trying to get you back up luci	[18:48]
sylvieg	easy to upgrade + open politics + build-in feature	[18:49]
amette	I didn't have the feeling like it's about replacing the 3 rules - but what's it about then? ;) extending them? refining?	[18:49]
nyloth	completing	[18:49]
luciash	i don't know what's the problem :-p	[18:49]
MatWho	this important conversation is not working due to skype	[18:49]
luciash	with 3Rules i mean ;)	[18:49]
amette	g	[18:49]
nyloth	for me there is no problem ;p	[18:49]
mib_99ebep	i like the embedding	[18:49]
amette	for me neither	[18:49]
mib_99ebep	on tiki way better :)	[18:50]
sylvieg	sorry I used reserved word - marc's 3 points	[18:50]
luciash	LOL, reserved word ?	[18:50]
nyloth	sylvieg: so you meant the 3 first points ?	[18:50]
sylvieg	yes	[18:50]
nyloth	ok	[18:50]
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jonnyb	i think the skype conf is not helping (50 minutes and very little communication so far) - better with ustream and irc - imho	[18:50]
nyloth	we don't have a real B yet B = a stable, bug-free version available for download	[18:50]
jonnyb	also, people could call in like i did about the jquery stuff	[18:51]
pascalstjean	technical maintenace being performed one more minute	[18:51]
luciash	i think we never had real B	[18:51]
pascalstjean	then we will turn it off we are trying new speaker and mic	[18:51]
nyloth	marc is doing a lot of noise here ;p	[18:52]
luciash	g	[18:52]
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luciash	BSoD ! wow	[18:52]
MatWho	The problem is that the release version is getting very little support/bug fixes - so every one moves on to trunk to get fixes and the latest features. This then makes trunk very difficult to develop with because so many people use trunk as if it was a production version.	[18:53]
nyloth	ok, so.. who doesn't agree with one of the points listed by marc ? (A to G)	[18:53]
luciash	i haven't seen it for years ;)	[18:53]
nyloth	MatWho: I agree	[18:53]
sylvieg	MatWho: yes we need more bug fix into 3.0	[18:53]
amette	MatWho: nyloth said that two days ago - we need (should) work for one/two months on the stable some further before concentrating on trunk	[18:53]
nyloth	I agree with what amette reported from my previous thoughts ;p	[18:54]
luciash	i didn't hear what is the ABC list about so i can't say	[18:54]
Jyhem	MatWho: I agree that release version should get real bugfixes (not just security), so that it's actually what people want to use in production	[18:54]
luciash	is it priorities ? ascendant list ?	[18:54]
jonnyb	A * calendar releases B * a stable, bug-free version available for download	[18:54]
MatWho	the problem is there is a point missing Point H - we fix important bugs in he production version and migrate enhancements over as possible from trunk to the production version in between main releses	[18:55]
amette	I opt for allowing 3.x releases for bugfixing, slight feature improvement - and use 3.x.y for security patches (as is common practice with version numbering - this also helps with people assessing what they download)	[18:55]
jonnyb	C * a dev version suitable for use at any time D * the possibility to add major improvements through branches which are merged afterwards E * that backward compatibility must be maintained (3 rules, etc.) F * having more built-in features than any other comparable app	[18:55]
amette	MatWho: I wouldn't migrate stuff from trunk to stable - that's what trunk is for	[18:55]
jonnyb	G * Very open contribution policy, people can commit things that are not always future-proof	[18:55]
luciash	amette: +1	[18:55]
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Jyhem	amette: +1	[18:56]
sylvieg	in fact I like backport we test in trunk and if ok we put back in 3.0	[18:56]
jonnyb	I'd say D is tricky one for me - more time managing the branch than actually doing the coding	[18:56]
nyloth	amette: we could also keep 3.x only, for bugfixes and/or for security fixes	[18:56]
MatWho	but that meant everyone is made to move from the production version to trunk and then it gets difficult to develop in trunk	[18:56]
Jyhem	but still fix important bugs in he production version: +1	[18:56]
MatWho	sylvieg: exactly, I agree	[18:56]
sylvieg	is more secure than deevlopping directly in 3.0	[18:57]
luciash	nyloth: we can't when you named the branch 3.0 ;) nyloth: just joking	[18:57]
nyloth	luciash: lol	[18:57]
MatWho	sylvieg: yes exactly, we need to manage the process of adding fixes/functions in to 3.x	[18:57]
nyloth	sylvieg: I agree... but will people do backport ? Do we need a quality team that do the backport ?	[18:57]
amette	sylvieg: I wouldn't put completely new features in the released version - only fixes in already existing features - it's only six months to the next release, that should be ok - no?	[18:57]
sylvieg	I will go for we develop in trunk and each week we backport in 3.0 what is interesting	[18:58]
amette	hmmm....	[18:58]
MatWho	sylvieg: +10	[18:58]
sylvieg	ye a quality team will be good for that	[18:58]
luciash	interesting idea	[18:58]
nyloth	sylvieg: ok for a quality team for this task	[18:58]
chibaguy	streaming will be off momentarily for another mic switch.	[18:58]
MatWho	sylvieg: ok maybe just backport easy/important features	[18:59]
m_stef	sylvieg: +1	[18:59]
Jyhem	which would be the stable releases ?	[18:59]
MatWho	3.x	[18:59]
marclaporte	We are testing new speakerphone setup on Skype This seems better	[18:59]
sylvieg	sound is good now	[19:00]
MatWho	good sound	[19:00]
m_stef	yay. let us hear it on ustream as well. ;)	[19:00]
pascalstjean	remember if you are not talking please mute your mic will generate even better sound	[19:00]
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MatWho	yes from me	[19:01]
sylvieg	yes	[19:01]
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sylvieg	you baclport by replying the diff reapplying	[19:02]
MatWho	If it is "important"	[19:03]
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sylvieg	the reviewer group decides - it is not a free world	[19:04]
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nyloth	sylvieg: +10	[19:04]
MatWho	sylvieg: +1	[19:04]
jonnyb	amazing noises...	[19:04]
Jyhem	who is the reviewer group ? any volunteers ?	[19:04]
sylvieg	who volunteer?	[19:04]
nyloth	the "quality team" we were talking about	[19:04]
nkoth3_	sylvieg: +10 reviewer group decides on backport	[19:04]
nyloth	I volunteer if there is not enough other volunteers	[19:05]
Jyhem	ok, who is the quality team ?	[19:05]
sylvieg	I volunteer	[19:05]
nyloth	Jyhem: it has to be created	[19:05]
sylvieg	and choices are abritary - no need to explain - it is the group responsability	[19:06]
MatWho	yes	[19:06]
jonnyb	i'll help - and we review the reviewers each major release?	[19:06]
nyloth	:) no problem for me ;p	[19:06]
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Jyhem	:-)	[19:06]
sylvieg	right	[19:07]
MatWho	yes No	[19:07]
sylvieg	no because the bacport will be more and more difficult - so one day it will be time to move on	[19:07]
jonnyb	terrible sound - have we been invaded?	[19:08]
nyloth	lol	[19:08]
MatWho	4.0 will be the way to get new features in that have taken serious changes to achive	[19:08]
luciash	i gived up with skype and listening perfect sound from the ustream ;)	[19:08]
nyloth	4.0, 5.0, and so on are scheduled... so they will surely be released	[19:08]
sylvieg	I do not agree to define rules - it is arbitrary - if somebody wnat really the fix to be in 3.0 , he should explain - prove... that it will create no problem	[19:09]
nkoth3_	maybe the quality team could be release/branch specific	[19:09]
nyloth	I agree with sylvie ... I think the quality team should decide or vote	[19:09]
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nyloth	amette: +1	[19:11]
sylvieg	no database change will perhpas one rule	[19:11]
MatWho	a suggestion : it gets back ported if a) it will be a safe backport that has little impact and b) is required to stop someone moving on to trunk to get things working. This is just a vague definition and I agree the Q Team should decide	[19:11]
nyloth	sylvieg: probably	[19:11]
tricia	fyi: getting WARNING: Plugin disabled REDIRECT! on http://doc.tikiwiki.org/File+Galleries	[19:12]
sylvieg	we still need one month where we work bug fix in 3.0 and merge in trunk	[19:12]
amette	tricia: yeah,m with 3.0 we need to look at the new system again... I'll take a note - thanks! tricia: link to the page? so I can check?	[19:12]
jonnyb	MatWho & sylvieg: +1	[19:12]
nyloth	sylvieg: yes, the QTeam may take care of the stable release after the final release, not after the technical release	[19:13]
sylvieg	ok	[19:13]
MatWho	ok	[19:13]
m_stef	do you take into account what could be if a unit testing framework would be installed?	[19:13]
Jyhem	So, first decision is: QA team (Sylvie, Nyloth, JonnyB) decide what is backported in 3.0 ?	[19:13]
sylvieg	the good point is that the fix/modif is checked in trunk before to be backported	[19:14]
m_stef	i believe that unit testing framework would make things like backporting also easier.	[19:14]
nyloth	sylvieg: yes	[19:14]
Jyhem	I suggest we take the unit testing framework into account when it is installed and evaluated ?	[19:14]
nyloth	m_stef: probably, but for me it's another point	[19:14]
m_stef	ok	[19:15]
MatWho	sylvieg: exactly	[19:15]
sylvieg	I give up with skype - seems nobody hear me - I hear perfectly	[19:15]
tricia	amette: some othershttp://doc.tikiwiki.org/Blogs http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Forums	[19:15]
sylvieg	it is still a good idea - (if it is not a personal branch)	[19:16]
MatWho	I have lost skype	[19:16]
nyloth	sylvieg: +1	[19:16]
amette	tricia: great, thanks! :)	[19:16]
jonnyb	i bailed out (skype)	[19:16]
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tricia	http://doc.tikiwiki.org/File+Galleries sarright :)	[19:16]
amette	:)	[19:17]
jonnyb	branches should be for very heavy things that will break lots of stuff - like changes to prefs or categories (need doing)	[19:17]
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sylvieg	+1 for jonnyb	[19:19]
nyloth	marclaporte: I think we can affort it. Keeping trunk as stable as possible, using experimental branches for new features still in development. + a stable qith backports from QTeam I'm not so far to agree with jonnyb too ;)	[19:19]
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MatWho	yes Branches is where you try and get things to work, Trunk is where you try and get what works back in to the main product. X.X is what people use for real work and it should be supported with minor backports when it is important and they defiantly will work.	[19:21]
sylvieg	man power on Qteam will limit the backport if enough ressource to backport - nice / but not sure we have 6 months for me	[19:22]
nyloth	sylvieg: I think we can try	[19:23]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r17147 10/branches/3.0/lib/wiki-plugins/wikiplugin_fancylist.php: [FIX] wikiplugin_fanylist: allow wiki links and other stuff in the items	[19:23]
jonnyb	I favour releasing new things when they exist and work, not just when it's a certain month I also like version numbers to represent how much has changes in the code (but i'm generally old-fashioned) +1 from me on doing 3.01 etc	[19:24]
nyloth	-1 for me	[19:26]
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sylvieg	they would like securty and bug fixes	[19:26]
luciash	btw, if i understand you, at my job we still use CVS but we do it like you propose, we keep stable stuff on HEAD where really stable versions of file meant for production are tagged STABLE, unsure tagged TEST and we eventually create branches for testing/experimental (well, but this is too different i think) bbl	[19:27]
sylvieg	people can use svn export if they want the soft	[19:31]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r17148 10/branches/3.0/lib/jquery_tiki/tiki-jquery.js: [FIX] Removed JQuery attempt at toggleCols() - wouldn't animate nicely (left in commented out to have another go later)	[19:31]
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sylvieg	release can stay when security pbs occur	[19:31]
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sylvieg	I do not really aggeree with jonnyb to release when we think there is enough good features -	[19:32]
SEWilco2	"Enough" and "good" are subjective. And off I go to write some defiant code...	[19:33]
jonnyb	i know sylvieg, it's just me :)	[19:33]
sylvieg	it is time consuming to release ....	[19:34]
nyloth	sylvieg: +1	[19:34]
sylvieg	prefer to spend my energy in backporting we can say people your bug is fixed the revision svn export this revision	[19:34]
amette	nyloth: what did you say yesterday? Our goal should be to be able to release "in five minutes"? I agree with that - it's a good goal! :)	[19:34]
SEWilco2	"make release"	[19:35]
amette	yup	[19:35]
SEWilco2	tiki-make_release.php	[19:35]
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jonnyb	(custom js and css in database) it's on my list marclaporte! :)	[19:42]
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CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r17149 10/branches/3.0/tiki-admin_include_features.php: [FIX] Notices	[19:44]
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jonnyb	maybe we should have a deprecated label - like experimental but the opposite like for imagegals we never close ;)	[19:46]
MatWho	jonnyb: +1	[19:46]
nyloth	deprecated / obsolete, yes, but only for 1 or 2 versions...	[19:46]
chibaguy	jonnyb, I suggested the same thing, only with the label 'Neglected' :-)	[19:46]
amette	http://amette.eu/blogpost166	[19:46]
jonnyb	ah... sounds so sad!	[19:46]
nyloth	instead we will end with more features in deprecated than in the rest	[19:47]
chibaguy	the truth hurts...	[19:47]
marclaporte	I think the most important thing is calendar releases.	[19:47]
SEWilco2	I've been contributing stuff which is generalized, to make it easier to be used in many situations without customization.	[19:47]
marclaporte	neglected LOL	[19:47]
SEWilco2	And now that I discovered that imagegals is out of favor, my imaging stuff is supporting both imagegal and filegal.	[19:48]
nyloth	I would like to have neglected/deprecated/whatever features that are announced like this in 1 or 2 versions max	[19:48]
MatWho	chibaguy: but by making something "depreciated" might be the motivation required for someone to rescue it, currently it is very difficult to see what needs fixing/rescuing	[19:48]
jonnyb	SEWilco2: good plan - we're (going to be) doing similar with GroupMail	[19:48]
sylvieg	ok for me	[19:49]
SEWilco2	Deprecated. "Depreciated" is a financial term. Is there a numerical scoring system?	[19:49]
chibaguy	"decroded"	[19:50]
SEWilco2	"eroding"	[19:50]
sylvieg	the 'quality team' should be open - it is easy to backport with the author...	[19:50]
jonnyb	rusty	[19:50]
nyloth	ok	[19:50]
sylvieg	I am not sure I trust enough peple to backport.... any people	[19:51]
nkoth3	So long as there is a "reasonable" (need not be fixed) time limit or features that are deprecated to stay around. I really like the deprecated label.	[19:51]
jonnyb	QTeam will end up doing a fair bit of it, i guess	[19:51]
nyloth	the QTeam will be in charge of backporting bugfixes. What about translations, themes fixes and security fixes ? (just to be more precise)	[19:51]
nkoth3	I think the QT can get helpers, but is ultimately the decider.	[19:51]
nyloth	For translations, I think QTeam is not necessaeirly needed	[19:51]
sylvieg	traanslation can not really be backported	[19:52]
MatWho	nyloth: +1	[19:52]
jonnyb	+1 nyloth (translations)	[19:52]
m_stef	is marc proposing a semantic configuration?	[19:52]
sylvieg	I want a little bit of control	[19:53]
nkoth3	+1 nyloth (translations)	[19:53]
sylvieg	it is why I would like an open Qteam	[19:53]
amette	sylvieg: you have it by being on the quality team - it'll work out! open qteam sounds very good	[19:53]
marclaporte	m_stef: huh?	[19:53]
sylvieg	I am no more on skyope - seems nobody heard me...	[19:53]
jonnyb	i gotta go for a little while - someone's cooked food for me :D - i'll be back (& will try and catch up)	[19:53]
amette	and then discuss with the people who want their stuff backported, if and how it is done	[19:53]
m_stef	no only ustream... :( 30 seconds lag, i know :)	[19:53]
sylvieg	+1 amette	[19:54]
MatWho	no skype	[19:54]
amette	( this includes the IF and the WHO - so it'll be ok I think - we'll see about the final process - let it develop, I say)	[19:54]
SEWilco2	Or document how to contribute a backport so a dev can contribute both forward and back versions.	[19:54]
pascalstjean	everybody moved to UStream	[19:54]
m_stef	marclaporte: tagged configuration options sound a lot like a semantic whatever.	[19:54]
sylvieg	yes pascalstjean	[19:54]
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sylvieg	I need to check my headset is working properly - was at the beginning - but I lost the possibility to speak	[19:56]
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sylvieg	experimental - forever	[19:56]
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MatWho	back in 5 mins	[19:56]
SEWilco2	"Igor, that vat stinks, dump it out."	[19:57]
nyloth	If the branch is not needed anymore, it would be fait from the developper to close it (I've done it recently for calendar_ng) s/fait/fair/	[19:57]
sylvieg	ustream is good	[19:58]
m_stef	i meet the lead developer tomorrow of ustream, if you agree i'll buy him a tikibeer.	[19:59]
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sylvieg	:-)	[19:59]
SEWilco2	SEWilco2 nods gently, so as to not upset the tikibeer's head.	[19:59]
chibaguy	m_stef, please tell him thanks for the service. It's been great for us. :-)	[20:00]
amette	m_stef: do that! Ttell him, we had a good time with his product!! :)	[20:00]
m_stef	i already invited him to this conf, not sure if he makes it, but i wanted to show him, in what innovative ways their service is used. ;)	[20:01]
amette	:)	[20:01]
sylvieg	1) +1 for rick job and other	[20:02]
SEWilco2	Does ustream have a way for streams to categorize themselves, so streams about one event could be in same category? Ustream could suggest such related things.	[20:04]
sylvieg	you give tags to a broadcast so you can waht you want...	[20:04]
SEWilco2	Oh, good.	[20:04]
sylvieg	point 1) I do like too much the themes for the tw sites - not very sexy - even if it is a good theme - but not enough colorful / javascript... for these sites 2 point) good job chibaguy, luciash, pkdille and others...	[20:06]
marclaporte	:-)	[20:07]
SEWilco2	Speaking of installation... easier favicon installation would be nice.	[20:09]
marclaporte	SEWilco2 : + 1 and with logo as well	[20:09]
SEWilco2	marclaporte: "Type a description of your desired logo. The image and an invoice will be produced." :-)	[20:11]
sylvieg	Yeh nyloth	[20:11]
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amette	wb ricks99_ :)	[20:12]
nyloth	hi ricks99	[20:12]
ricks99_	:)	[20:13]
amette	check out: http://www.ustream.tv/videoplayerpopup/channel/523448 ;) and http://tikiwiki.org/TikiFestMontreal2009 ( beware, the stream is there too - so you might get sound duplication ;) ) the link directly to ustream doesn't lag so far behind though apparantly	[20:13]
sylvieg	+1 for chibaguy and css layput	[20:14]
marclaporte	chibaguy rocks	[20:15]
amette	yup :)	[20:15]
sylvieg	and like this we can document and explain what table.normal is for for instance	[20:16]
amette	:)	[20:16]
nyloth	sylvieg: +1	[20:16]
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SEWilco2	themes3.tw.o	[20:16]
MatWho	hi	[20:17]
SEWilco2	Or... 3.themes.tw.o ?	[20:17]
sylvieg	you can overload icon now - thax nyloth	[20:18]
nyloth	:)	[20:19]
luciash	luciash is back	[20:20]
chibaguy	right, we need descriptions of existing css selectors, as guideline for developers, to avoid new selectors...	[20:21]
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chibaguy	...that may be unneeded.	[20:21]
luciash	problem with favicon is that it's not easy to overwrite because in root of tiki	[20:21]
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sylvieg	I do not hink people are specialized - so it is hard to say this guy is the guy of the feature...	[20:22]
luciash	except if we will forget favicon support for ie6	[20:22]
sylvieg	luciash: you can do a special command that write in root(if the perms are good)	[20:22]
SEWilco2	luciash: Being in root and awkwardness in uploading are two favicon problems. Being in root makes it a candidate for an installation step.	[20:22]
marclaporte	matthew? matthew: can you tell us about marketing?	[20:22]
MatWho	yes	[20:23]
MartinCleaver	nkoth3: y.t. ?	[20:23]
MatWho	is skype going to work?	[20:23]
marclaporte	yes	[20:23]
sylvieg	it was working..	[20:23]
SEWilco2	Just enough time to run a TW commercial.	[20:23]
luciash	favicon in FF can be anywhere else and different format than ico	[20:23]
sylvieg	thx luciash did not know that	[20:24]
marclaporte	no, call Pascal	[20:24]
luciash	sylvieg: i'm not sure, you have to give write permission to the favicon file itself and dunno if it will work if / is not writable	[20:24]
SEWilco2	luciash: Good point. We could provide easier support for non-IE favicon, and document the rest.	[20:24]
sylvieg	luciash: yes it is the point / problem	[20:24]
marclaporte	Pascal's computer has speakerphone	[20:24]
luciash	SEWilco2: yep, that could be good compromise	[20:24]
sylvieg	(like the .htaccess file btw)	[20:24]
marclaporte	loud and clear	[20:24]
sylvieg	hi MatWho hello	[20:24]
luciash	heeelou :D :)	[20:25]
sylvieg	heee loooooo	[20:25]
SEWilco2	luciash: Don't need write permission to a file if there is a .htaccess rule pointing to a certain file/program which emits favicon.	[20:25]
marclaporte	can you give us status report on marketing? amette is gone	[20:25]
sylvieg	SEWilco2: good point	[20:25]
luciash	SEWilco2: ah yup, htaccess can work it out	[20:26]
marclaporte	yes yes, we hear you loud and clear	[20:26]
tricia	nice haircut	[20:27]
luciash	huh ?	[20:27]
tricia	bad joke speaker on phone see phone, phone has nice haircut	[20:27]
omstefanov	thanks Matthew	[20:28]
luciash	aaah :D	[20:28]
omstefanov	what name do you want to protect?	[20:28]
luciash	it's like live on news ;)	[20:28]
chibaguy	:-)	[20:28]
sylvieg	ahaha	[20:28]
luciash	omstefanov: that's the problem we don't know yet :-p	[20:29]
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omstefanov	i heard marc loud and clear	[20:30]
chibaguy	(actual mic/speaker shown -- regular phone before was studio prop)	[20:31]
sylvieg	what is the name ? aaaaa	[20:31]
luciash	ROFL, chibaguy is learning broadcasting tricks ;)	[20:32]
nyloth	sylvieg: lol sylvieg: how about GGG ? ;)	[20:32]
sylvieg	do we know at least one guy who comes from mediawii?	[20:33]
tricia	sound echo echo echo has sound changed changed changed ??	[20:35]
sylvieg	I have write for the cnrs the import/export xml of page (with attacfh, comment, image) ... if somebody has an idea about a good format for this xml file - it can be poweful for the part out the syntax	[20:35]
chibaguy	tricia, be sure you only have one window playing the video.	[20:35]
luciash	no echo here, check if you don't have two ustream players open sylvieg: cool	[20:35]
sylvieg	migating the look? I think content will be already a good step	[20:37]
tricia	thanks had a shadow box, it started to echo all of a sudden ???? :-: plus fort patrice !!	[20:38]
luciash	tricia: soory, if you open in hadowbox you have to pause the one on page first :-/	[20:38]
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nyloth	:)	[20:39]
sylvieg	for example transfer a page with all its dependency from one tiki and another one - we need that dependencies -1 for this idea - for personal reason - because my customers one day will give me a calendar job, ontother will be tracker	[20:39]
nyloth	same as sylvieg	[20:42]
SEWilco2	It would help to have contact people for things.	[20:42]
sylvieg	I do not want to specialize - but it is MY situation	[20:42]
omstefanov	1 for this idea too. perhaps "interest groups" for features?	[20:42]
SEWilco2	sylvieg: Just take your specialized problem and supply a generalized solution.	[20:42]
Jyhem	same as Sylvie	[20:43]
SEWilco2	sylvieg: Would also be nice so a page could be shared among a community of servers.	[20:44]
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luciash	we got a feedback coment ;) → http://www.ustream.tv/channel/523448	[20:44]
sylvieg	so we need 10 .. mailing lists	[20:45]
nyloth	sylvieg: LOL	[20:45]
marclaporte	filters/tags/categories	[20:46]
sylvieg	I think the devel list is not enough specialize...	[20:46]
SEWilco2	We need a "contact info" space on web page for various features. Multiple names allowed. Wiki page? Tracker field?	[20:46]
MatWho	SEWilco2: +1	[20:46]
nyloth	sylvieg: +1	[20:46]
sylvieg	SEWilco2: fien I will put my name in each one	[20:46]
tricia	sewilco2: +1	[20:47]
SEWilco2	Contact info could be dev.tw.o user name. email address not necessary.	[20:47]
nyloth	SEWilco2: -1	[20:47]
sylvieg	we will finish like the consultants apge - a big list and people do not know how to approach the list	[20:47]
SEWilco2	With two comments, is that a -1 or (-1*2)? Approach the list with flowers or chocolate.	[20:48]
nyloth	:)	[20:48]
chibaguy	and money	[20:48]
MatWho	SEWilco2: This seems to be an easy solution to the problem, which does not change much but makes it really easy to find the person who knows the answer	[20:48]
tricia	quick question: tikiwiki markup for comments ???	[20:50]
luciash	tricia: ? we have quotes plugin	[20:50]
sylvieg	i think we know each other - and when there is a message on the devel that can be considered asour duty to answer - I answer	[20:50]
luciash	for comment area the same syntax as wiki page	[20:51]
nyloth	sylvieg: +1	[20:51]
tricia	inline comments like html <!-- fdkalsfkl ->	[20:51]
luciash	ah, there's one, yep, wiki plugin i think tricia: see the help	[20:51]
sylvieg	what is this page?	[20:52]
tricia	i did try, takes some digging, was being lazy as everyone is on	[20:52]
SEWilco2	Are IRC comments visible to the TF discussioneers?	[20:52]
sylvieg	what is this page?	[20:53]
marclaporte	http://tikiwiki.org/WhoWhat	[20:53]
sylvieg	tricia ~tc~	[20:54]
luciash	sylvie digged it out :)	[20:54]
tricia	hooray sylvie to the rescue again !!! merci mille fois	[20:57]
sylvieg	:-) new contributors +1 and -1	[21:00]
SEWilco2	The permissions in 2.2 still seem fragile, so it's harder to not give admin rights to people. And admins can break sites. crickets	[21:00]
marclaporte	http://tikiwiki.org/SWOT#Integration_of_new_contributors_to_the_community_D_	[21:01]
sylvieg	we need a Qteam - because the newbies that are not happy because we do not agree with their code ... take this personnally	[21:01]
SEWilco2	SEWilco2 keeps thinking of the Lensman Q-gun.	[21:02]
sylvieg	(I had 2 persons recently that were unhappy with me because I said thet it was not feeting tw and after you must say - ok commit and we have a big 'verrue' in the code	[21:02]
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luciash	sylvieg: yup yup	[21:04]
ricks99	we can now capture email addresses from new installs (via mail test)...	[21:05]
sylvieg	ricks99: is smart ;-)	[21:05]
luciash	ricks99: that's privacy breach	[21:05]
sylvieg	te regexp in tracker	[21:05]
ricks99	not if disclosed	[21:05]
sylvieg	and th best_lang	[21:05]
luciash	don't forget we're open source ;)	[21:06]
MatWho	ricks99: -100	[21:06]
ricks99	how about simply an automated response to their test email? "thanks for installing"	[21:06]
sylvieg	th regexp tracker was badly implemented - and each 2 days he snet we an email he wants to commit because it is done	[21:06]
MatWho	ricks99: much better	[21:06]
marclaporte	http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Roadmap	[21:07]
luciash	btw, i tested the mail thing on my localhost, it said ok, but i didn't received any mail from info at tw.o.. is it ok there goes actually no mail ?	[21:07]
ricks99	@luciash: dont quite understand. I have seen lots of the test emails coming to info@tw.o	[21:08]
chibaguy	streaming still ok? video is stuck on my monitoring of ustream tikifests page.	[21:08]
luciash	or it goes to /dev/null ? gary: works but slow video	[21:08]
sylvieg	no idea about radmaop for 4.0 depends on customers...	[21:08]
ricks99	no, it is a real addresss	[21:08]
chibaguy	yeah, ok.	[21:08]
nkoth3	i clicked that test mail some days ago also....	[21:09]
chibaguy	I hope the recorded video clip is better.	[21:09]
ricks99	but if we want to do an auto-responder, should use a unique address	[21:09]
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sylvieg	IE6 will be hard	[21:09]
chibaguy	recording of video seems to be going ok.	[21:09]
lq_180	Hello. I'm trying to integrate phpbb forums into tikiwiki. I've read through the forums but haven't found alot other than people talking about tikipro and bitweaver. I found this page on bitweaver about the integration http://www.bitweaver.org/wiki/phpBB+Edits but can this be done on tikiwiki?	[21:11]
chibaguy	lq_180, if you're a good coder, probably so. ;-)	[21:11]
sylvieg	bitweaver does not support anymoer phpbb - so far I know	[21:12]
luciash	ricks99: ok, i thought i receive mails sent to info tw.o but i mixed it with the watches which go "from", sorry	[21:12]
ricks99	@lq_180: open request: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=8qw&q=tikiwiki+phpbb&btnG=Search	[21:12]
chibaguy	lq_180, our priority is to improve internal features rather than integrate outside programs.	[21:13]
MatWho	I have to go and eat ...	[21:13]
sylvieg	bon appetit	[21:14]
marclaporte	http://dev.tikiwiki.org/AvanTech_net	[21:14]
luciash	lq_180: maybe via integrator but it's very old code unmaintained	[21:14]
nkoth3	why not use the forums in TikiWiki?	[21:15]
sylvieg	forum in tikiwiki will allow to share perms, access...	[21:17]
lq_180	I can't figure out how to break down the forums in tikiwiki into sections and subsections that's the only reason	[21:18]
SEWilco2	{TELECONFERENCE} plugin? Configurable for various video/chat services? Iframes?	[21:19]
sylvieg	thre is section notion in forum	[21:21]
ricks99	@lq_180: see docs: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Forum+User&structure=Documentation#Creating_editing_forums "section" option	[21:21]
sylvieg	that groups forums together - only one level	[21:21]
Jyhem	our ratings would be better with more girls on screen	[21:21]
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luciash	btw, isn't netineo something simmilar ?	[21:22]
SEWilco2	SEWilco2 looks for the Skype archive...	[21:22]
luciash	as ustream.tv ?	[21:22]
nkoth3	to ustream?	[21:22]
luciash	nkoth3: yep, it's about online tv channels too, right ?	[21:23]
lq_180	I'm reading through the stuff and while it says the forums can be broken into sections, it does not say how this is done	[21:23]
sylvieg	it is the 4 setting line in admin-> a forum	[21:23]
nkoth3	yes, similar - not exactly the same, ustreamis bigger though (I suppose $13mi in funding helps)	[21:24]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03nyloth * r17150 10/branches/3.0/lang/fr/language.php: [ENH] french translation of the homepage content	[21:24]
lq_180	lol wow I don't know how I missed that. I guess it's been a long day. Thank you	[21:25]
sylvieg	phone conference will be good	[21:25]
luciash	nkoth3: just remember it because it dogfoods tiki partly ;)	[21:25]
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SEWilco2	TF stream froze and audio is breaking up.	[21:25]
marclaporte	beer for us soon so speak now or else :-)	[21:26]
nkoth3	luciash: sure.	[21:26]
sylvieg	I am here	[21:26]
ricks99	waiting for my beer :)	[21:26]
wikiman	Here	[21:26]
SEWilco2	nkoth: Sure, you online or sure you gave up?	[21:26]
tricia	lurking	[21:26]
sylvieg	hope I have a beer in the freezer	[21:26]
SEWilco2	"15 viewers"	[21:27]
sylvieg	no 16..	[21:27]
luciash	sylvieg: last time we tried call conference we used gizmo and it worked pretty well, there's audio recorded still attached to the dev page: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=AdminUIRevamp20071210	[21:27]
nkoth3	SEWilco2: ?	[21:27]
sylvieg	thanks	[21:27]
wikiman	This was a good experience. Thank you all.	[21:27]
luciash	luciash still have one in the fridge too ;)	[21:27]
lq_180	so what was added in the beta 3.0 package?	[21:28]
sylvieg	and thanks for chibaguy the cameraman	[21:28]
SEWilco2	Is this the end of the TF, or should we wait for return?	[21:28]
tricia	thank you everyone, only problem is no way to get beer virtually	[21:28]
nyloth	:)	[21:28]
SEWilco2	tricia: There is a way, but it's a hardware problem.	[21:28]
luciash	many thanks to chibaguy, right	[21:29]
SEWilco2	No partying words.	[21:29]
tricia	dang, i hate hardware	[21:29]
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SEWilco2	tricia: Even hardware with beer?	[21:29]
sylvieg	the sound is breaking down each 10 mn - my computer is tired	[21:29]
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tricia	welll that I would like	[21:30]
luciash	yes, here too, i think ustream servers are getting overloaded	[21:30]
tricia	gtg great fest everyone thanks again	[21:30]
SEWilco2	tricia: A beer well? There's an idea.	[21:30]
tricia	oooh good idea	[21:30]
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sylvieg	blapblapblap	[21:31]
luciash	yeeeeah ! very cool virtual tikifest for me ;) thanks to my wife that she allowed me to sit the whole time here ;)	[21:31]
m_stef	yaehaw	[21:31]
SEWilco2	One guy to focus.. that would be the cameraman.	[21:31]
***	Caarrie\|away is now known as Caarrie	[21:31]
luciash	next time we can produce the free tikibeer, just grab the open source receipt ;)	[21:32]
mib_dqr5am	luciash, lucky you! (xavi here, kind of hidden) :-)	[21:32]
m_stef	:)	[21:32]
luciash	heheh, LOL wb xavi hidden ;)	[21:32]
ricks99	clap	[21:33]
m_stef	yeaah!	[21:33]
sylvieg	blabla...	[21:33]
wikiman	props	[21:33]
sylvieg	clapclapcalp	[21:33]
marclaporte	party time!	[21:35]
luciash	beer prepared here ! ;)	[21:35]
***	mib_dqr5am is now known as xavi	[21:35]
m_stef	cheers!	[21:35]
nkoth3	party! - cry (missing it)	[21:35]
luciash	cheeeeeers !	[21:36]
omstefanov	thanks to all online participants	[21:36]
nkoth3	throw me a beer anyway!	[21:36]
sylvieg	cheers I am happy we released something	[21:36]
ricks99	woo-hoo :)	[21:36]
luciash	you can see me in the webcam enjoying it ;)	[21:36]
m_stef	m_stef throws some beers to nkoth3	[21:37]
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m_stef	don't do this in real life	[21:37]
***	xavi has quit IRC ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")	[21:37]
luciash	nkoth3: already abroad ?	[21:37]
nkoth3	still on the train	[21:37]
SEWilco2	Yes, kiddies. In real life throw whiskey, but never beer.	[21:37]
***	mib_dqr5am has joined #tikiwiki	[21:38]
nkoth3	opening portal for beer to come through	[21:38]
nyloth	bye everybody. TikiFest is over. Will try to return alive in France ;p	[21:38]
nkoth3	lol	[21:38]
ricks99	by all :)	[21:38]
luciash	byez guys !	[21:38]
***	ricks99 has quit IRC ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com") omstefanov has quit IRC ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") xavi has joined #tikiwiki	[21:38]
m_stef	bye all	[21:39]
***	m_stef has left "Killed buffer" nyloth has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection)	[21:39]
luciash	hey xavi ! everybody is just leaving !	[21:39]
chibaguy	streaming is about to end. thanks to all for kind words and your participation. :-)	[21:39]
SEWilco2	My code minion will try to create a imagegal<->filegal mover. Seems that we need one.	[21:39]
nkoth3	thanks chibaguy for keeping the camera running	[21:39]
luciash	chibaguy: i hope you enjoyed it too	[21:39]
chibaguy	sure, it was fun. :-)	[21:40]
xavi	oh, well, I came then just to say thanks for all your work	[21:40]
luciash	chibaguy: not only the technical stuff around the camcorder ;)	[21:40]
chibaguy	:-)	[21:40]
luciash	are you attending the php conference still ? to see amette's speech ?	[21:40]
nkoth3	yeah - awesome theme work for 3.0 all o fyou	[21:41]
lq_180	Could anyone tell me why sefurl and apache rewrites seem to be working on most of the site, including list pages, but under my categories it's like it just goes away and stays with the standard links?	[21:41]
chibaguy	yes, I'll attend and be here til march 8.	[21:41]
nkoth3	lq_180: what do you mean "under my categories"?	[21:41]
SEWilco2	lq_180: Probably the cat URLs don't have good rules yet.	[21:41]
chibaguy	will see amette's speech; also LPH is speaking but in French. No subtitles.	[21:42]
luciash	lq_180: hard to say, paste your .htaccess somewhere chibaguy: cool chibaguy: more pictures to come ?	[21:42]
lq_180	the category urls are the same links as the original ones under list pages, the ones under list pages rewrite correctly while the ones under the categories do not	[21:42]
chibaguy	Yes, I took some photos but not too many. Others took some, so the total will be good.	[21:42]
SEWilco2	lq_180: And which version of TW?	[21:43]
lq_180	2.2 my rewrite rules can be found here http://thetenniswiki.com/files/htaccess.txt	[21:44]
chibaguy	Sorry, no video steam of the party, but there'll be photos & .meg4s. bye for now.	[21:45]
nkoth3	bye, enjoy the party	[21:46]
***	chibaguy has left	[21:46]
lq_180	apparently the last changes option also uses the old links, so the rewrites don't work in the categories and last changes?	[21:50]
***	MatWho has left sthibault has left	[21:51]
SEWilco2	lq_180: What "last changes option"?	[21:52]
lq_180	The one that is on the wiki menu that shows you what pages were recently changed	[21:53]
luciash	old links ?	[21:54]
lq_180	the standard wiki links, before the rewrites take place	[21:54]
SEWilco2	lq_180: How does it behave if you go to /categories	[21:55]
luciash	RewriteRule ^lastchanges$ tiki-lastchanges.php [L] doesn't work ?	[21:55]
lq_180	the rule does work	[21:56]
luciash	what doesn't work then ?	[21:57]
lq_180	the display of the page names under categories, last changes, and search. I think it has more to do with sefurl function than the rewrites I'm trying to create a sitemap and it's telling me there's 170k+ links (still counting up)	[21:57]
luciash	display of page name ?	[21:58]
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luciash	you mean in browser title ?	[21:58]
SEWilco2	I wonder if these "page names" have &options appended.	[21:58]
sylvieg	upgrade to 3.0 and you will have the sefurl postfilter	[21:58]
luciash	hey sylvieg, cheers, did you found the beer , ;)	[21:59]
SEWilco2	lq_180: If you have calendar enabled, a crawler will have trouble. Need robots.txt telling it to not go deep in calendar.	[21:59]
lq_180	is there a list of changes in 3.0?	[21:59]
sylvieg	I found a coffee	[21:59]
lq_180	calendar is disabled	[21:59]
luciash	sylvieg: g i'll find it after the beer i think ;) luciash wonders where amette went so early... i his cold so bad ?	[21:59]
sylvieg	http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=TikiWiki%203.0&structure=Documentation	[22:00]
lq_180	let's see if I can rephrase this. The links to my pages under the categories, last changes, and search are not the cleaned up sefurl links like are displayed in listpages	[22:00]
luciash	lq_180: it will be in changelog.txt if not there already	[22:01]
sylvieg	the documentation is not finished because the release is still in beta.. I am still doing the developper list of chages - I am on beginning of October - quite a bit of job	[22:01]
luciash	sylvieg: wow	[22:03]
sylvieg	the pretty page is xavi's one good pages	[22:03]
***	marclaporte has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) Redhatter has joined #tikiwiki	[22:04]
luciash	luciash hopes marclaporte will find route to his home after the party at least ;)	[22:04]
***	Redhatter has quit IRC (Client Quit)	[22:08]
lq_180	can I just upgrade tikiwiki without it killing all of my database stuff?	[22:08]
luciash	sure, just make a backup anyway	[22:09]
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lq_180	was already backing up before I asked I've changed alot of code in the php and tpl files, so I'll probably have to rewrite some of those	[22:10]
luciash	yes, you have to make diffs	[22:11]
uSlacker	I feel like a noob asking this, but how do I quote javascript in a blog post? ~pp~ seems to eat the tags some tags	[22:15]
luciash	try {CODE()}	[22:16]
uSlacker	oh, that sounds familiar thx!	[22:16]
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SEWilco2	uSlacker: The displayed code might not work if cut-and-pasted. There may be <x> scattered around, which are invisible on browser.	[22:29]
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sylvieg	it is silent around here - was getting use to the sound of tikifest used	[22:46]
	sylvieg thinks svn is as css - not good at merging - getting a lot of conflicts...	[22:53]
luciash	luciash goes to make a coffee	[23:00]
sylvieg	s/css/cvs luciash: I got my beer	[23:00]
	do we have a name for 4.0?	[23:13]
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r17151 10/trunk/ (134 files in 80 dirs): [MRG] Automatic merge, branches/3.0 17062 to 17150	[23:16]
luciash	not yet afaik	[23:18]
sylvieg	devel mail sent about the name i committed in trunk file that should not be committed - we will clean later the release process / merge proces is not perfect (was better before)	[23:21]
SEWilco2	I'll drink to 4.0 "afaik" :-)	[23:26]
***	SEWilco2 has left	[23:27]
...... (idle for 25mn)
CIA-71	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r17152 10/branches/3.0/lib/smarty_tiki/block.tabs.php: [FIX] smarty block tabs: no unwanted whitespace	[23:52]

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