#tikiwiki 2009-05-05,Tue

(Click on time to select a line by its url)

Who	What	When
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anna	hallooo testing	[00:55]
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conner_bw	Hey, what's the path to the 3.0 branch? I'm on a new computer and forgot the checkout path	[02:09]
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conner_bw	nvmd, found it, http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki/branches/3.0/	[02:12]
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mib_y9y8gm	Hey tiki folks	[03:38]
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shoq	We are trying to get the left pull down menus working in EALTON theme. Is that hopeless in anything 3.0 beta? Or easy? None of the tear off menus are working on the side menu, They work fine in top user nav. And in any pre 3.0 theme. Do we just have to give up the 3.0 themes, for now?	[03:40]
marclaporte	polom chibaguy would be to answer that shoq: : can you help to fix? that theme is quite nice would be nice to work on 3.0	[03:45]
shoq	hey it's really nice.. but have no idea where to start. we're coming back after 3+ years we could live with a menu hack. are there other very delicate things that may fail that need testing? I am willing to try to repain ealton, but it sounds like 3.0 has huge changes from 2.x. Would that be just begging for trouble? without a lot of familiarity, that could be a huge learning curve.	[03:49]
marclaporte	3+ years?	[03:52]
shoq	yeah	[03:52]
marclaporte	tell me more :-)	[03:52]
shoq	we were trying to bend tiki in ways it just didn't want to bend back then :) but now we need, badly for a site that has to be up ASAP so trying to decide what our best course is. 2.x that works, or 3.0 is the different to 3.0 huge? difference?	[03:52]
marclaporte	shoq: : new project or upgrade?	[03:54]
shoq	new	[03:54]
marclaporte	timeframe?	[03:54]
shoq	2yesterday :)	[03:55]
marclaporte	what are most important features?	[03:55]
shoq	2wiki, and forum	[03:55]
marclaporte	do you have devs to fix bugs?	[03:56]
shoq	2yes, but really only in desperation. very busy on other code. for small bugs, yes 2I can do CSS bugs	[03:57]
marclaporte	do you need stuff here? http://doc.tikiwiki.org/TikiWiki+3.0	[03:57]
shoq	2but it seems the menuing is core + jquery?	[03:57]
marclaporte	mostly everything is core in Tiki	[03:58]
shoq	2but jquery is not pre-3? 2Which theme would be most stable in 3.0 Strassa? 2ping? 2have I lost you?	[03:59]
marclaporte	multi-tasking jquery is core but optional and experimental shoq: do you use SVN?	[04:06]
shoq	2we can	[04:07]
marclaporte	UI in 3.0 is much improved	[04:07]
shoq	2my partner can do all that, yes.. when needed..but trying to avoid that time suck if i can help it	[04:07]
marclaporte	many more features than 2.x	[04:07]
shoq	2would it be stable enough on big issues,? 2to go right to a live site? 2it's not a commercial site. just an important community	[04:07]
marclaporte	tikiwiki.org, doc.tikiwiki.org and dev.tikiwiki.org are running it	[04:08]
shoq	2oh.. that's good 2in its shipped form? 2but the menus work on your site 2wait. let me check that	[04:08]
marclaporte	Have 15-20 things I want solve first: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Release30process shoq: : for a new project, I would say go with branches/3.0 from SVN and help iron the bugs along the way open source is not just about taking and using it's also about sharing & contributing hundreds of people have worked on Tiki over 6 years to build an amazing piece of software can't you take some time to fix some bugs?	[04:09]
shoq	2yes, of course we can, long term. our issue is just getting something up immediately. the project cannot delay 2obviously, once we're using it, we will fix things. We need something that runs and looks professional literally this week. If strass works, we're ok. 2but the "my tiki" page on your site looks completely broken 2have you looked? 2it looks like some CSS has completely broken down	[04:12]
	2Marc, iss the EALTON theme designer here? 2Or can I reach him? 2That's really the theme we would love to use.	[04:19]
marclaporte	shoq: no offense but I have heard this many times before including by some people that have helped the project	[04:22]
shoq	2heard what? That someone wants to use a beta?	[04:22]
marclaporte	they hack something up and intend to share later because they are in a rush and then, another rush comes along	[04:22]
shoq	2this project is for developers. We hope to have hundreds. But we can't even start without a site	[04:23]
marclaporte	chibaguy is designer for that theme	[04:23]
shoq	2people were pushing for Drupal. I hate drupal. I want tiki	[04:23]
marclaporte	(I think)	[04:23]
shoq	2because you have the features 2but if we had to spend days or weeks getting a basic site to run, that would be bad. that's all. We can fix the serious stuff as we go later. 2can I email him? 2if he thinks it will work, or gives me a clue where the problem might be 2i'm pretty good with css 2just need some clues	[04:23]
marclaporte	what browsers will you be supporting? does eatlon.css look ok on 2.4?	[04:26]
shoq	2can't tell. is the themes.tikiwiki.org running 2.4 or 3? 2i assume 2.4 2and yes, I believe it looked fine there	[04:27]
marclaporte	themes.tw.o is 2.4 I think	[04:28]
shoq	2but strassa was broken on your main site, on the mytiki page	[04:28]
marclaporte	url?	[04:28]
shoq	2let me double check the demo	[04:28]
marclaporte	shoq: I don't think I am able to give advice with the info you provide on one hand, UI of 3.0 is better, and there are more features	[04:29]
shoq	2http://themes.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Eatlon 2That is working fine	[04:29]
marclaporte	however, maybe you don't need the new features and 2.4 UI may be good enough 2.x bugs are not fixed, so it's best to report on 3.x so they get fixed and if you are in a rush, I am not sure you can deal with this So I see pros & cons to each option	[04:30]
shoq	2were forums and wikis upgraded all that much, or are 2.4 pretty decent? 2perhaps that is our option. just to to 2.4	[04:31]
marclaporte	wiki is excellent in terms of power and stability but UI is so-so in 2.4	[04:31]
shoq	2shame though. seems you have put so much work into 3	[04:32]
marclaporte	UI in 3.0 is very nice, but not yet rock-solid stable	[04:32]
shoq	2UI for users, admins, or both?	[04:32]
marclaporte	both but we don't care for admins I mean, you just admin once	[04:32]
shoq	2I understand	[04:33]
marclaporte	it's the user edit interface which is the most important if you are deploying forum is very good in 2.x	[04:33]
shoq	2where are the biggest shortcomings in UI, in 2.x?	[04:33]
marclaporte	are you using WYSIWYG?	[04:33]
shoq	2yes	[04:33]
marclaporte	I recommend not to	[04:33]
shoq	2not to use wizzy in 2.4, 3.0 or both?	[04:34]
marclaporte	never	[04:34]
shoq	2that may not work then. a lot of these users are coming from wikis like wetpaint, pbworks, etc 2that would be a huge change from wizzy, down to text 2the devs, no problem 2but they are not the only users 2hmmmm	[04:35]
marclaporte	mediawiki has lots of users wikipedia I mean	[04:35]
shoq	2it';s just a wiki 2we need far more than a wiki. that's tiki's strength	[04:36]
marclaporte	yes of course, I don't know what you are trying to do and each use case is different and you must choose for your project Do you have projects with Wizzy?	[04:36]
shoq	2sure. this is basically a community site, for planning the use of very large #hashtag on twitter. 2so people will have various skillsets 2forum and document authoring (or wiki) are most important	[04:37]
marclaporte	http://tikiwiki.org/Why+Wiki+Syntax+Is+Important	[04:38]
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shoq	2yeah. i know all the strenghts of wiki syntax. But I also know the resistance I get :)	[04:39]
marclaporte	I think WYSIWYG can be ok for publishing	[04:39]
shoq	2You and I love it. Plain users, not so much	[04:39]
marclaporte	but for intense collaboration, great diffs is essential	[04:40]
shoq	2Agree	[04:40]
marclaporte	shoq: do you have real experience with users complaining?	[04:40]
shoq	2This community has been using Wetpaint. They need more features... but to step down from full blown WIZZY to markup would be a hard sell	[04:41]
marclaporte	that is speculation? or real? I repeat the example of Wikipedia	[04:41]
shoq	2a bit of both. some key players were adamant, and demanded wizzy. could the battle be fought? Probably	[04:42]
marclaporte	and Wikipedia has lots of html in the syntax	[04:42]
shoq	2Wikipedia is a very generic, very fixed format.	[04:42]
marclaporte	of course, everyone want everything look: You can use FCKEditor which is bundled in Tiki FCK is one of the leading Wizzies	[04:42]
shoq	2fck is fine 2i know it well 2i never have a new theme for it 2that i wrote last year	[04:44]
marclaporte	But don't come complaining to me about problems after I will tell you,	[04:44]
shoq	2never finished it, but it might be somethign i can contribute 2lol	[04:44]
marclaporte	"Wiki syntax is rock solid" let me tell you about a fck bug	[04:45]
shoq	2but used can flip thought, right? 2they can use wiki if they know it?	[04:45]
marclaporte	that a company that uses Tiki had	[04:45]
shoq	2and fck if not?	[04:45]
marclaporte	they had weird problems where hyperlinks were destroyed sometimes they couldn't pinpoint	[04:46]
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marclaporte	they spent days trying to figure out why some users sometimes but not all the time	[04:46]
shoq	2is fck3 released? 2it was a big improvement last year, but very unstable then 2it sounds like that problem is more with the tiki integration than fck, right?	[04:47]
marclaporte	This was the bug: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/wish1703 shoq: I think Tiki integration has some blame for WYSIWYG issues	[04:48]
shoq	2that issue was closed, but not fixed?	[04:49]
marclaporte	I think also that it's just a very complex problem and when people use successively different browsers, it causes surprises I dunno why it's closed so, can you help fix WYSIWYG issues?	[04:49]
shoq	2probably, yes. i am pretty good at javascript. PHP, not so much 2but my partner is good at both 2and ihave capable admins. but again.. it's all a matter of choices. not sure we have the time. but at least I have discussion points for morning meeting 2where are you, marc? What time zone?	[04:51]
marclaporte	Montreal, EST	[04:54]
shoq	2oh, good 2so you might be around in morning, if we have a question?	[04:54]
marclaporte	Round-trip WYSIWG <-> wiki works in theory sure	[04:54]
shoq	2iam going to way everyone through all this	[04:54]
marclaporte	what you can do	[04:55]
shoq	2do things at least work in ie and firefox? 2is there a demo of 2.4 running still? 2so I can play without installing>	[04:55]
marclaporte	for wizzy, I would think so but I don't know yes, at opensourcecms.com http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/WYSIWYG_Wiki <- If you do end up using Wizzy, use this profile	[04:56]
shoq	2i remember my partner grousing about "unfriendly URLS" in tiki. are there solutions for that?	[04:57]
marclaporte	shoq: : yes there is I suggest to start in plain wiki, and add Wizzy later only if necessary, and ideally just for some pages that really need it URLs: as you can see, the URL above is short since a long time now, you just put .htaccess file and short URLS can work	[04:57]
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marclaporte	the problem is that URLs generated by Tiki are still long ones this is improved in 3.0 (experimental)	[04:59]
shoq	2The news theme on that site is plain, but menus are working	[04:59]
marclaporte	this would be a place you could help	[04:59]
shoq	2perhaps we could just dress than up, a bit	[04:59]
marclaporte	not to difficult	[04:59]
shoq	2is that theme stable?	[04:59]
marclaporte	yes, thenews is quite stable the most stable of all 3.x themes I would say	[05:00]
shoq	2and wizzy will at least work in it?	[05:00]
marclaporte	1- because we used it more 2- because it's simple	[05:00]
shoq	2maybe that's our annwer	[05:00]
marclaporte	there is a SEFURL recipe. Just need to deploy the recipe to places where it's not yet deployed shoq: : http://dev.tikiwiki.org/How+to+get+commit+access	[05:01]
shoq	2i will show this to simon first thing 2boy, I am glad you were here 2tell me this. i could not tell in the docs. Is there a module that can generate dynamic menus of a set of child pages?	[05:02]
marclaporte	:-)	[05:03]
shoq	2so that if a user adds a chilld page, it's automatically in a breakcrumb or sidebar navigation menu?	[05:04]
marclaporte	within the page, us {toc}	[05:04]
shoq	2that's really what my users are used to 2and in the side?	[05:04]
marclaporte	I guess {toc} in a module modules are boxes on sides (in Tiki Lingo)	[05:05]
shoq	2and the module could be specific to one set of pages?	[05:05]
marclaporte	gimme 3 min, I will try something	[05:05]
shoq	2let me find a wet paint site that resembles this 2there are a few	[05:06]
marclaporte	shoq: :do you think you will make many sites?	[05:07]
shoq	2hard question to answer. we've discussed that. depends greatly on how things go	[05:07]
marclaporte	ok	[05:07]
shoq	2we might make a great many	[05:07]
marclaporte	if you do, two important tools TRIM: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/TRIM to deploy/manage many sites	[05:07]
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shoq	2ah 2subsites?	[05:09]
marclaporte	http://profiles.tikiwiki.org/ -> to pre-configure sites no, not subsites, but distinct installs	[05:09]
shoq	2great	[05:10]
marclaporte	say you have 20 projects 20 tikis on 8 severs servers TRIM helps you manage them all	[05:10]
shoq	2great 2http://p2pt0.wetpaint.com/	[05:10]
marclaporte	install, upgrade, backup, security monitor, etc	[05:10]
shoq	2now look at that left side nav 2thats wetpaint 2notice it's a tree menu of wiki pages 2very easy for users to "move" pages to the tree	[05:10]
marclaporte	marclaporte looks	[05:11]
shoq	2it's very popular	[05:11]
marclaporte	top menu always stays the same?	[05:11]
shoq	2yes 2throught the site, yes	[05:11]
marclaporte	this is your site?	[05:12]
shoq	2but of course, pages get added. but no, the nav doesn't shift, and that of course is one of the things that should be improved 2nah.. just one of many wetpaint sites 2a million of them	[05:12]
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xavi	toctoc-morning...	[05:13]
marclaporte	yo xavi	[05:13]
shoq	2hi	[05:13]
marclaporte	marclaporte creates wetpaint account to test	[05:14]
shoq	2easy enough	[05:14]
xavi	marclaporte: still around? xavi wonders which brand are the "batteries" inside marclaporte...	[05:14]
shoq	2you "move pages" with the menu "other options" on the end of the page bar 2it is the ONLY wiki to do have this. And it's very popular. If tiki had it, it could be a big deal	[05:14]
marclaporte	wow: http://tikiwiki.wetpaint.com/ I didn't know about his site xavi: my batteries are better since I stopped travelling	[05:15]
xavi	:-)	[05:16]
shoq	2it's done very very well 2there are two 2wetpaint, which is huge in education 2and pbworks, which does better in biz 2pbworks lacks that navigation 2and it hurts them 2wetpaint has forums added to every page 2that's all good 2but thats' about it 2after that, it starts to fall down 2and the forums are really not well done 2and the wizzy editing can be slow and awkward at times, but beginners do love it 2but you know how that goes, beginners love anything somewhat easy 2I have wanted that navigation for years 2and presto, they added it, and it's been the most important selling feature 2people simply do not kknow how to structure a site or a wiki, so giving them TOC is pointless 2they need place to see new pages as they create them 2in an tree. then they can move them 2this is hurting google sites too	[05:17]
marclaporte	http://tikiwikiworld.wetpaint.com/?t=anon	[05:20]
shoq	2they have the side navigation, but NO TREE 2(yet)	[05:21]
marclaporte	shoq: : are you familiar with structures in tiki?	[05:21]
shoq	2i remember we played with structured wikis some 2and yes, these are just structures, right? 2can we simple render the structure in the sidebar, that way? 2simply	[05:22]
marclaporte	shoq: I am pretty sure this is done for 4.0	[05:24]
shoq	2lol 2which is how far away?	[05:25]
marclaporte	Oct 2009 but you can backport to 3.1 to 3.x I mean just a few file changes	[05:25]
shoq	2In the interim, we can do that, but it just has to be inpage? 2is there a collapsing TOC for the structure?	[05:26]
marclaporte	I am testing on doc.tw.o	[05:26]
shoq	2but we just have to float it inside the main body? 2ah	[05:26]
marclaporte	{toc} in module doesn't work but yes, {toc} anywhere in a page works well and sometimes, it makes sense to put sometimes, not	[05:28]
shoq	2and it's collapsible, as the category menus are ?	[05:28]
marclaporte	dunno default it just list	[05:29]
shoq	2Well..we could drive the system	[05:29]
marclaporte	maybe collapsible option my take on this	[05:29]
shoq	2and use absolute positioning	[05:29]
marclaporte	:	[05:29]
shoq	2and place it on the leeft 2left	[05:29]
marclaporte	improving the rendering of structures will be easy and it's something that tiki needs so you can share back and are not alone	[05:30]
shoq	2yes, and my guy is good at that. so long as getting up to speed on structures is easy	[05:30]
marclaporte	Sylvie, Seb and other are working on that However The problem with structures is UI to move things around	[05:30]
shoq	2what do people do for page navigatino now? They just manually make little child page indexes?	[05:31]
marclaporte	it's a top of page	[05:32]
shoq	2can a categories tree be used as a navigation module?	[05:32]
marclaporte	look at doc.tikiwiki.org shoq: : yes, I have an example on profiles.tikiwiki.org a little ugly but it works about structures: look at top here: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Module&bl=y	[05:32]
shoq	2did i have to be signed in to see this top of page example?	[05:34]
marclaporte	no (I think)	[05:34]
shoq	2you just meant the top pull down nav menus? 2that's not dynamic,	[05:34]
marclaporte	correct but if people click arrows, they can navigate all pages	[05:34]
shoq	2I am talkign about if users create a child page, is there anythig that lets them find it easily from their current location 2or is it jsut "out there" until they link to it?	[05:35]
marclaporte	shoq: if {toc} is in current page, they see I have somewhere a hack about structures and menus hold on	[05:36]
shoq	2brb.. gotta brush :)	[05:38]
marclaporte	http://dev.tikiwiki.org/wish1045 -> here is wish. In comments, there is a link to the 4.0 code shoq: : where are you?	[05:38]
	{wikistructure id=2} is a feature	[05:43]
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marclaporte	ah chibaguy	[05:45]
chibaguy	polom	[05:45]
marclaporte	shoq has questions for you :-)	[05:46]
chibaguy	i read the log.	[05:46]
xavi	hi chibaguy	[05:46]
chibaguy	hi xavi	[05:46]
marclaporte	shoq: : categories are an option too. YOu can have hierarchy but no order	[05:46]
xavi	xavi nearly finished reading the log	[05:46]
shoq	2back 2hi chib 2chib, are you the Eatlon themer?	[05:46]
xavi	marclaporte and shoq: remember also http://tikiwiki.org/TikiLiveCD for a working 2.4 and 3beta out of the box	[05:47]
chibaguy	I'm not the original designer, but I did the Tiki implementation.	[05:47]
xavi	and shoq and marclaporte: wizzy and wiki out and return doesn't produce 100% perfect results	[05:47]
shoq	2is the left nav supposed to be working as pull downs., or vertical toggles (as they are) 2we assumed they are supposed to be pull downs, and it's broken	[05:48]
xavi	I mean: for a production site aiming to last many months or years, you'd better suggest your users to use wysiwyg or wiki syntax on each page: one or the other, but not both indistinctly and changing the editor on each page	[05:48]
chibaguy	Eatlon for Tiki 3 is here: http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki/mods/trunk/themes/eatlon_for_tiki_3.tar.gz?view=tar ... But I have made more changes that aren't committed yet. You can see tiki3 and eatlon at http://zukakakina.com/tw3/ (and select the theme).	[05:48]
shoq	2great. is the menuing problem near to a fix?	[05:49]
chibaguy	What menuing problem? (sorry)	[05:49]
shoq	2ok, the top menus of ealton are pull down menus, on mouseover, right?	[05:50]
marclaporte	bedtime for me	[05:50]
shoq	2we assumed the left side nav was supposed to be doing the same thing 2but it's not	[05:51]
chibaguy	Yes, both suckerfish and PHP Layers menus	[05:51]
xavi	g'night marclaporte	[05:51]
marclaporte	shoq: : as a reminder:	[05:51]
chibaguy	..are supported.	[05:51]
shoq	2not on our site, or yours 2nite marc 2thank you	[05:51]
marclaporte	I think making nice output from structures is low hanging fruit	[05:51]
chibaguy	g'night marc	[05:51]
marclaporte	the challenge is that it's tedious to manage structures for end users easy to add page but aweful to move around we'd need some UI work jquery would be nice	[05:51]
shoq	2yeah	[05:52]
chibaguy	The left-column suckerfish and php layers menus have a flyout for the second level.	[05:52]
marclaporte	so if you build it and they fill it, it's ok	[05:52]
shoq	2right, but that is not working in 3 for us	[05:52]
marclaporte	if they must manage, maybe categories is better because category picker is easy	[05:52]
shoq	2and then categories could act like folders, with articles in them?	[05:53]
marclaporte	yes	[05:53]
xavi	shoq : structures work pretty well in 2.4. See this quick howto, if interested to see them in action on a real (production) site: http://www.iesbarcelona.org/ESSO350/How+to+edit+the+Wiki+Structure	[05:53]
marclaporte	and pages can be in one or many	[05:53]
shoq	2but pages cannot have child pages	[05:53]
marclaporte	only limitation is that there is no order, so you can't print a book	[05:53]
xavi	I added some mini howto for my newbie students (some of them and very very low skilled with computing, even if at university)	[05:54]
shoq	2they can only be placed in child categories, right?	[05:54]
chibaguy	(If that 'not working' is about the menus, then something must be wrong/incomplete at the installation. These normally work as designed.)	[05:54]
xavi	shoq: yes, pages can have child pages	[05:54]
marclaporte	can be placed anywhere shoq: : login to profiles.tikiwiki.org and play with it just add pages to categories and see how they appear in menu	[05:54]
shoq	2I will do this in morning, after meeting 2i can do that at profiles.?	[05:55]
marclaporte	as a bonus, people can watch categories and get email	[05:55]
shoq	2Chiba 2http://p2tag.com/tiki-index.php 2can you register there 2and I can show you the menu bug?	[05:55]
marclaporte	yes, profiles.tikiwiki.org -> left menu is build from categories	[05:56]
shoq	2I think you have to be logged in	[05:56]
chibaguy	(Incidentally, the theme files at zukakakina.com/tw3 are in the middle of switching to a new css file method, so things may not be 100%.)	[05:56]
shoq	2No, you can see the problem 2without even logging in	[05:56]
xavi	marclaporte: but new pages are not shown in the left menu where the categories are	[05:56]
shoq	2you can see the problem in left menu 2and your demo site has the same problem	[05:57]
xavi	I never tried myself, but there is a module for "structures toc" even in 2.x, I think...	[05:57]
chibaguy	Did you get the Eatlon files from the link I gave at 14:48 ^^ ?	[05:57]
shoq	2you mean just now?	[05:58]
chibaguy	I mean is http://p2tag.com/tiki-index.php using those files?	[05:58]
shoq	2I cannot install new files. I have to have the admin do in morning 2they are using 3,0 out of the box 2whatever that is 2or wherever she get the theme 2she got nothing from the svn	[05:58]
chibaguy	Well, the Eatlon files for Tiki 2 won't work correctly with Tiki 3, so that'll be the first thing to change.	[05:59]
shoq	2so what exactly does she want?	[05:59]
chibaguy	She can get the compressed archive at the link I gave above, decompress it, and put the files into the right places in Tiki's directory. If she installed Eatlon before, she'll know what to do.	[06:00]
shoq	2gotcha 2let me find that link	[06:00]
chibaguy	If any problems, I'm usually here at this time of day and will be glad to help. (The old Eatlon files should be removed, and the new ones put in their place.)	[06:01]
shoq	2GREAT 2you guys rock 2so we should look at the structures module in 2.x? 2Chib, is the theme stable enough in forums, main nav, and wiki? 2I can help there. CSS I can ") 2do	[06:04]
xavi	you could give it a try to structures module in 2.4, I mean	[06:05]
shoq	2i could not code that 2but i could help design it	[06:06]
xavi	xavi wonders if that module is documented.... checking...	[06:06]
Tikiwiki\|bot	New Forum Posts: (Noob) img tag not seeming to work for me - http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=32875	[06:07]
shoq	2chiib. xavi.. hit my wall for now. I must sleep or meeting will be washout. WIll you be around in morning?	[06:08]
chibaguy	sorry, was away. Most of the Eatlon css is carried over from the Tiki 2 file, so should be ok throughout TIki, pretty much.	[06:08]
shoq	2great	[06:09]
chibaguy	Of course if you see places to improve, that'd be great.	[06:09]
shoq	2let's get her started on that	[06:09]
xavi	shoq, maybe not me.	[06:09]
shoq	2i just wish i had some answer for this navigation	[06:09]
xavi	but you are in god hands in this channel with its current inhabitants	[06:09]
chibaguy	(sometimes I get lazy, or maybe don't have some feature or other activated when doing/checking the theme.)	[06:09]
xavi	s/god/good (or maybe also "god"???)	[06:09]
shoq	2are them some examples of someone doing simply page structures like that?	[06:09]
chibaguy	I'm in Japan, so don't know just what you mean by morning, but I'm usually around, more or less.	[06:10]
shoq	2lol 2i mean in 7 hours	[06:10]
chibaguy	what -> when Yep, should be here.	[06:10]
shoq	2great 2http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-my_tiki.php 2that page is broken 2on my Ubuntu Firefox 3 2is it on yours?	[06:11]
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chibaguy	yeah, I know that's a mess.	[06:11]
shoq	2oh, ok	[06:11]
chibaguy	It was started on an ajax implementation that was abandoned, I think.	[06:12]
shoq	2are you japanese, or just living there?	[06:12]
chibaguy	american long-time resident.	[06:12]
shoq	2never been. would love to go	[06:12]
xavi	shoq: see this navigation from a wikistructure (or right column): http://www.iesbarcelona.org/ESSO350/ using 2.4 page names are too long for that, I know. It's just a quick and dirty trial from the structure I was using with my students, the one documented here: http://www.iesbarcelona.org/ESSO350/How+to+edit+the+Wiki+Structure	[06:13]
shoq	2Now if user added a page, would it show up in the structure on the fly?	[06:14]
xavi	that navigational module is generated on the fly from the structure yes	[06:14]
shoq	2so all we have to do is make it collapsing wiht jquery menus?	[06:14]
xavi	shoq: yes, for instance: That would be lovely!	[06:15]
shoq	2and the structure be limited to one set of pages, and not the whole site?	[06:15]
xavi	btw, it's not a pre-defined module, but pre-defined content to be added on a user-defined module	[06:15]
shoq	2but the instructions were from the structure docs above?	[06:16]
xavi	shoq: it's predefined to a structure page. The smaller the structure, the smaller the content. Not necessarily all and it's already coded to show only down to several level of the structur enodes see http://doc.tikiwiki.org/toc xavi trying the maxdepth param in that 2.4 site	[06:16]
shoq	2So basically, so long as TOC appears in main page body	[06:18]
xavi	shoq: btw, which theme style are you using in tw.o? (in your acount, I mean) with strasa, everthing looks fine to me...	[06:18]
shoq	2we can do dynamic structures as users add pages	[06:18]
xavi	shoq: yes	[06:18]
shoq	2we were using strassa, but two of our people just disliked it 2they want ealton 2lol 2i think i like news.. but i prefer simple	[06:19]
xavi	http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-my_tiki.php is showing ok to me with strasa. that's what I mean. what was yuor problem?	[06:20]
shoq	2i find it hard to believe with all the wikis build with tiki, no one build something like the wet paint module, using toc	[06:20]
xavi	maybe I didn't understand the layout problem you mentioned....	[06:20]
shoq	2strassa was ok 2our problem was ealton	[06:20]
xavi	ah, ok	[06:20]
shoq	2Ok, thank you guys. I will reread all of this in morning 2thanks again 2will let you know how we progress with ealton 2nite!	[06:21]
xavi	shoq: maxdepth is not working in 2.4 [wikistructure id= } navigation menus on the side, but it is when the {toc} is generated in the main body of the page xavi disabled that trial menu from that production 2.4 site nite	[06:22]
shoq	2would you guys recommand 3.0 2or still with 2.4 for now? 2marc was iffy on that 2it sounds like we will want things in 3 2but don't know	[06:23]
xavi	it's up to you and your users, I would say, how strict they will be with tiny bugs here and there for some weeks/months (you said you needed site for production for last week)	[06:25]
shoq	2tiny bugs 2no problem	[06:25]
chibaguy	I'm not sure yet about 3.0. For sure it has a lot of new features and some things are done more nicely....	[06:26]
shoq	2big bugs, yes	[06:26]
xavi	if it was me, for real users (not skilled and afraid of wiki syntax), and used to wetpaint sites, etc, I would go with 2.4, and when they are used to it, change/upgrade to 3.0	[06:26]
chibaguy	....but because a lot is new, using 2.4 would be more predictable, for a live site that needs to be solid.	[06:26]
shoq	2what do you see tiki competitive with today/ Drupal? 2what's your nearest?	[06:26]
chibaguy	3.0 is still being debugged.	[06:26]
xavi	tiny vs. big: it's subjective. Search was failing completely for anonymous users for a week at least (fixed yesterday) on 3.0 is this big for you, or just tiny? (for registered or editors, that seemed to be working fine) this is just an example.	[06:27]
shoq	2search is big 2oh 2for anonymous	[06:27]
xavi	my users would have got impressed negatively if search didn't work for them for a week!	[06:28]
shoq	2small 2:)	[06:28]
xavi	so it's up to you, I would say if in doubvt, then, go for 3.0, and help improve it! :-) and document it! ;-)	[06:28]
shoq	2my problem is these people are used to creating a page, and hooking it to that wetpaint.com left nav tree 2easy 2they are totally used to that	[06:29]
xavi	http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Documentation need lots of care to upgrade many pages to hold information about 3.0 changes	[06:29]
shoq	2i need some answer to that 2but enough 2thanks guys 2more tomorrow	[06:29]
xavi	{wikistructure id=N} does this job ok, c u	[06:29]
chibaguy	marc wrote some pages on tikiwiki.org about comparisons to drupal, joomla, etc.	[06:29]
shoq	2you mean, wikistructure is the same thing. We jsut can't display it in side bar 2right?	[06:30]
xavi	you do can display in the side bar I showed it for you a moment ago on that 2.4 production site	[06:31]
shoq	2Oh 2right	[06:31]
luciash	polom polom	[06:31]
shoq	2and we could set that up from existing code? 2and just work in the collapser	[06:31]
xavi	yes, from out-of-the-box 2.4	[06:32]
luciash	huh, i cannot read the dark blue on black background :-p	[06:32]
shoq	2but not 3?	[06:32]
xavi	shoq: probably yes also, .... just trying right now...	[06:32]
shoq	2oh , that would rock	[06:32]
xavi	yes, it works even with the maxdepth param! :-) see this in the left menu: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Documentation compare the menu in the left with the menu in the central column in the left column, set to display maxdepth=2 (only headers of 1st and 2nd level), and in main page, show full strucgture, with all levels Tiki 3 rocks! :-D	[06:34]
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xavi	shoq: go for tiki 3 and add the jquery thing to that navigation thingy :-) shoq, did you see that on doc.tw.o? I need to disable it after that, since that's the production site for documentation, and too manu menus right now with that enabled	[06:36]
shoq	2well this looks like what we we want	[06:37]
xavi	yes!	[06:37]
shoq	2so long as plain dumb users can just add to the structure with no training	[06:38]
xavi	xavi is looking forward to see the jquery-fication of that dynamic navigation menu from structures.... :-)	[06:38]
shoq	2check out superfish for jquery	[06:38]
xavi	if they can understand this type of image: http://www.iesbarcelona.org/ESSO350/How+to+edit+the+Wiki+Structure	[06:38]
shoq	2buddy of mine did that in australian	[06:38]
xavi	it would take them 1 min seconds to figure out hjow to do it, do it, and ensure that they got it right. 1 min. xavi goes back to work on other stuff good luck, shoq, and keep us informed module removed from doc.tw.o	[06:39]
luciash	shoq: i cannot read all the log but i suppose you figured the left menu out	[06:43]
shoq	2back 2was looking it all over 2luc.. i think we just need the right css 2or did you mean the dynamic toc menu? 2thank you all 2we have much ti figure out	[06:45]
xavi	shoq: welcome back to TikiWiki Community! :-) (after 3 years)	[06:46]
chibaguy	shoq, Tiki 3 already uses superfish for css menus.	[06:47]
shoq	2thanks you! 2hahah	[06:47]
chibaguy	if jquery is turned on by site admin.	[06:47]
shoq	2he will be thrilled 2that means 2i have already contributed 2because i did a LOT of work on superfish 2mostly the design and css debugging, and the autowidths 2which rock	[06:47]
xavi	free software (FLOSS) rocks! :-)	[06:48]
shoq	2but that was about 9 months ago, so now i wil be rusty 2but we will get back together	[06:48]
xavi	shoq: were are you from?	[06:49]
chibaguy	shoq, our css menus are now (in Tiki 3) kind of a mix of earlier work on suckerfish, since in tiki 3 jquery is optional/experimental... ...so there should be a reworking of css menus for TIki 4 (refactoring, etc.)... so your help would be much appreciated, if possible, I think.	[06:49]
shoq	2yeah, superfish took what was good about suckerfish, blended with jquery, and threw out the crap 2Well, i can't promise yet. I have many things to analyse and disucss with partners. but this is more promising than it was 2thanks guys 2good night!	[06:49]
chibaguy	Tiki menus also have classes for menu levels, etc., so it all needs to be blended nicely. good night.	[06:50]
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luciash	hi chibaguy and xavi :)	[06:57]
xavi	hi luciash	[06:58]
chibaguy	hey luciash	[06:58]
	Actually (to clarify) I think the css menus are in good shape, but since jquery has been added, maybe they could be improved, be more efficient. Something to look at maybe.	[07:12]
xavi	+1 (good shape), and improvable with jquery maybe	[07:13]
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luciash	i just thought he forgot to add overflow=y to the module and type=vert chibaguy: i still wonder why it produces no shadows in Tiki with superfish	[07:17]
chibaguy	oh, maybe so, luciash. I forgot about that point. yeah, I wonder too.	[07:21]
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luciash	i also thought maybe it could be better to have some longer delay for the superfish menu disappearing (it's configurable in jq params) sometimes i have trouble especially with laptop touchpad to operate with the css menus	[07:23]
xavi	sylvieg (for whenever you are up): I've deleted the "test" gallery (with no images) that you created in doc.tw.o fyi xavi is documenting a bit the new image upload behavior in 3.0, using doc.tw.o as example, and that test was kind if ugly in the screenshots s/kind if/kind of chibaguy: there is display problem with strasa (at least) and file gallery browser you click on it to collapse file gallery browser on the left of http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-list_file_gallery.php?galleryId=0&filegals_manager=editwiki ,a nd it collapses ok you click again, to expand it, and it expands ok, and less than 1 sec. later, it shrinks to a few hundred pixels wide using ff3 not important, but I just noticed	[07:28]
luciash	xavi: i'd recommend not to use the strasa theme for documentation but the default one, it's more clean and better for printing the screenshots imho... just my 2 cents	[07:34]
xavi	uh? strasa showed up as my default, afaik... yes :-) I have "site default" in tw.o so that, I imagine that this is why I get also strasa in doc.tw.o? (intertiki passing that info?)	[07:34]
luciash	huh ? default is still thenews after fresh install nope ?	[07:35]
xavi	well, default in tw.o is strasa	[07:36]
luciash	i mean for making screenshots for documentation	[07:36]
LordVan	hi	[07:36]
chibaguy	yes, I see what you mean, xavi. At first glance, that looks like something that I don't know how to fix. ;-)	[07:36]
LordVan	maybe i'm stupid 7 blind, but I can't find where to activate plugins in the admin interface .. can someone help me out please?	[07:36]
chibaguy	admin textarea, I believe.	[07:37]
xavi	ok, oh well, I like some more colors in the screenshots... like strasa... but I understand what you say about printing... I dunno what to do... anyway, screenshots are in many colors right now... (xavi copes well with diversity, in fact)	[07:37]
LordVan	as mentioned iun http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Wiki+Plugins chibaguy, ok thanks i'll look	[07:37]
chibaguy	chibaguy has learned that admin textarea is the secret hiding place for such things.	[07:37]
xavi	LordVan: and if you can update documentaion pages for that, that would be awesome! :-)	[07:38]
luciash	can we still rename it to Edit & Plugins for 3.0 ?	[07:38]
xavi	chibaguy: hide/collapse issue: ok, not important nor urgent imho if not trivial to fix	[07:38]
LordVan	first i need to figure it out ;)	[07:38]
xavi	luciash: "Edit area & Plugins"? LordVan: I know, but when you figure it out, you'll probably not come back to offer documenting it, so that's why I'm asking this right now, so that when you figure it out, you know that you have been requested to help improving documentation pages about it :-P otherwise, doc.tw.o will remain outdated for months, if all users asking for help (becuase they don't find things in the documentatation) don't help to improve it	[07:39]
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xavi	s/months/years in fact sorry to feel like a (time) bank robber, but I honestly think that otherwise it's not a sustainable way of ensuring a healthy live for doc.tw.o...	[07:41]
LordVan	yeah i know	[07:43]
xavi	in case anyone sees me as a time robber! :-) do what you can, as we all do xavi back to documenting	[07:43]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r18463 10/branches/3.0/styles/thenews.css: [FIX] Tiki-top suckerfish menu top-level items' side border goes full height again.	[07:49]
Beestje	quick Q : what tools / environments do you guys use to code and / or design? I'm using dreamweaver on OSX for coding, but PHP coding doesn't go smoothly... for designing I use the Firebug plugin from Firefox	[07:57]
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Beestje	I want to be more active as a developer as well and I'm just wondering what tools you use... :)	[07:58]
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xavi	Beestje: in case it helps (I'm not a coder, nor a designer in fact, but power user). I compiled a list that you can see through "Tools" pages at doc.tw.o See links from here: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Tools hth	[08:08]
chibaguy	I use Dreamweaver, too, as editor for smarty templates, also TopStyle for css files.	[08:08]
xavi	and you know, as always, you are very welcome to improve that list with whatever answers you get from others or from yourself ;-)	[08:09]
chibaguy	Fireworks for graphics, WinMerge for file comparisons, TortoiseSVN, FF+ Firebug	[08:10]
LordVan	i prefer gimp for gfx ;) chibaguy, but for windows winmerge & tortoisesvn r a must i agree - although i use linux myself ;) LordVan is not a tiki dev though	[08:11]
chibaguy	yeah, I like winmerge and tortoisesvn a lot; they do the job really well, I think.	[08:12]
LordVan	although tortoise has a nice merge tool too ;)	[08:12]
chibaguy	(though tortoisesvn slows down my file manager displays quite a bit sometimes)	[08:13]
LordVan	hmm	[08:13]
xavi	Beestje , LordVan and chibaguy: that would depend on the platform/OS of the user. Beestje seems to be using OSX. That list of Tools pages comprises windows, linux MAc and multiplatform tools in different pages	[08:13]
LordVan	yep i duno bout mac although gimp works on mac too ;)	[08:13]
xavi	http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Linux+tools	[08:14]
chibaguy	I'd like to get more familiar with gimp and inkscape but don't have much time to explore, so just do jobs with familiar tools.	[08:14]
xavi	http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Mac+tools http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Windows+tools	[08:14]
chibaguy	have used fireworks for a long time so it's easy.	[08:15]
xavi	http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Multiplatform+tools fyiç	[08:15]
LordVan	:)	[08:16]
luciash	xavi: Edit area & Plugins sounds good	[08:22]
chibaguy	Does "Edit area" have a clear meaning?	[08:24]
luciash	Beestje: try Eclipse (jonny uses that on OS X), i use it on Linux and for simple/quick editing i use vim chibaguy: still far better than textarea chibaguy: what do you propose ?	[08:24]
chibaguy	chibaguy has no better idea ;-) How about "Editing and Plugins"?	[08:25]
luciash	it could be "Wiki Syntax & Plugins" too but it's not shorter ;)	[08:26]
chibaguy	Gotta take dog out. will be back soon...	[08:27]
luciash	give your dog his time, gary ;) no hurry :)	[08:29]
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xavi	luciash and chibaguy (after dog walk): "Edit window & Plugins"?	[08:47]
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xavi	dunno, many simple users might call it "ah, at the editing window"...	[08:47]
luciash	xavi: nope :) window is confusing	[08:48]
xavi	ok confusing for devs (maybe not for simple users), but I agree, it's not a good name for everyone	[08:48]
luciash	"Editing & Plugins" could work too as gary suggested	[08:48]
xavi	however, I can foresee many users wondering: "Editting" what? Articles? trackers?.... s/editting/editing my 2 cents	[08:49]
luciash	unfortunatelly i have no time left to change it so if you do, please, welcome	[08:49]
xavi	not enough time left today for that, sorry (still aiming to finish documenting about image upload + translatio + non-tiki work urgent for today)	[08:50]
luciash	gotta plenty of work here still so i think i'll be available only after 3.0 release and switch to trunk	[08:51]
xavi	so, we can leave it as it is for 3.0 I would say	[08:51]
luciash	better would be to change but if chibaguy doesn't do that simple change, we have to live with that explaining users where to find plugins all the time until 3.1 ;) marclaporte: what do you think ?	[08:52]
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luciash	:) bbl	[08:52]
Beestje	wow tnx for the tips! Boss called me aside for a meeting so couldn't respond sooner :)	[09:09]
xavi	Beestje: np for the record: I?ve created this page: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Module+wikistructure I know this is not a real module as the other predefined ones, but from the point of view of end users, they will not mind (I would say), and they would look for "module structure" (probably) in documentation to see if they can do what that shoq user wanted to do (long discussion/conversation hours ago today here in irc) hth	[09:15]
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xavi	luciash and chibaguy: how would you proceed with PluginVersions display: each time I'm reading a page with plugin version usage, I wonder how long does it last that version usage, and when does the static content follows. I started adding manually boxes (^versions plugin and text ^ ) so that I can see that... ... but I'm wondering if this shouldn't be something to add by default to whatever tpl (if any) is using pluginversions... of php, whatever (add display info in the code so that each theme style can be set up as desired for each site if in doubt, see http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Manual+Installation (with boxes added) or http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Upgrade (without boxes added)	[09:49]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18464 10/branches/3.0/lang/cs/language.php: czech language update	[09:58]
chibaguy	xavi, looks like div class=versions needs a border or background color.	[10:07]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18465 10/branches/3.0/lang/cs/language.php: minimal file ready for the final release generated using "get_strings.php?lang=cs&groupwrite&nohelp&nosections" params	[10:07]
chibaguy	or some graphic way to distinguish from nonversions content.	[10:07]
xavi	chibaguy: yes, where should I add that? at the php file itself? (I'm newbie on this)	[10:07]
luciash	chibaguy: strasa horiz css menu is too low z-index	[10:08]
chibaguy	ah, what does it conflict with?	[10:08]
luciash	submenu items go under right column content	[10:08]
chibaguy	xavi, I can do the versions div styles. it should be in the theme css file.	[10:08]
xavi	chibaguy: great, thanks ah, ok	[10:09]
luciash	chibaguy: more specifically they go under the module titles	[10:09]
chibaguy	luciash, maybe because of module titles positioning.	[10:09]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18466 10/branches/3.0/lang/cs/language.php: argh ! running get_strings with these params removed "$lang=Array(" too :-/	[10:13]
xavi	argh, plugin list pages kicked me out of the edition due to sql error :-/ xavi will try again (with backup of his edition this time :-) ) since plugin list pages seems much more powerful than TITLESEARCH, that he was used to, and somebody assked about them both in the releaseprocess30 page	[10:15]
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CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18467 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-show_help.tpl: [FIX] there's no "display: all" in CSS	[10:43]
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chibaguy	luciash, what browser is having a problem with css menu dropdowns and module titles? It tests ok at my site in FF and Opera.	[10:48]
luciash	FF3 and Opera too	[10:48]
chibaguy	are other themes ok?	[10:49]
luciash	chibaguy: with jQuery off chibaguy: yes, thenews is working fine	[10:49]
chibaguy	That's something I had been checking because IE had some trouble at one point. It's may be related to the way the top menu is positioned in strasa.	[10:51]
luciash	try jQuery off	[10:53]
chibaguy	jquery is off at my test site already.	[10:54]
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chibaguy	but I don't have menu dropdowns long enough to hit the right column. ;-) in strasa	[10:55]
luciash	hehe then i don't wonder it works for you :)	[10:55]
LordVan	any recent updates i should apply to my svn install from last week? important stuff i mean	[10:55]
chibaguy	:P	[10:56]
luciash	i have mootools off too if it matters	[10:56]
chibaguy	i'll add some menu items... hey, we only add important stuff. ;-) (LordVan )	[10:56]
LordVan	chibaguy, ;) i mean like big fat security hole or sth obviously i'll upgrade to 3.0 when it's out instead of svn	[10:57]
chibaguy	ah, no security fix that I know of.	[10:57]
luciash	chibaguy: i've just switched jQuery on and the problem persist LordVan: yep, there was some sec related fix	[10:57]
LordVan	now which is it ? ;)	[10:58]
luciash	see the SVN logs ;)	[10:58]
LordVan	:P what is general estimate for 3.0 anyway? days?weeks?	[10:58]
luciash	days	[10:59]
LordVan	cool	[10:59]
luciash	it should be yesterday already	[10:59]
LordVan	so all i'll have to do once it is out remove my svn tree and dump 3.0 in there (after copying the config file i guess) - i don'T want all the .svn dirs,.. ;)	[10:59]
luciash	chibaguy: seems jQuery or Mootools have no effect on the css menu bug	[11:01]
xavi	LordVan: again: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Upgrade so LordVan: please, first read the docs. After that, if possible, ask for help, and please, help to improve them	[11:01]
LordVan	xavi, sure, but the docs don'T mention svn 3.0 to release ;)	[11:01]
xavi	xavi wonders how many time he will have to repeat it... well, they do mention from some 3.0 to 3.0beta4 someone like you asked weeks ago, we answered, and request him to document it, and he did.	[11:01]
chibaguy	luciash, now that I have 10 menu items in the dropdown, I confirm the problem. :-)	[11:02]
xavi	now you are asking for the "release" (which is not even ready).	[11:02]
LordVan	cool ;) looks like i didn'T read properly	[11:02]
chibaguy	This is in opera, first test.	[11:02]
xavi	so please, read what is in there, ask for help, and improve it, please	[11:03]
LordVan	xavi, i knwo that i was just wondering that all	[11:03]
xavi	Some minutes ago I just moved that under a tab of the version plugin... so since some minutes ago, that link should be under the "Choose an upgrade path > Others"	[11:03]
luciash	chibaguy: i'm editing strasa now so maybe i can fix it	[11:04]
xavi	please, feel free to take those links out of that version-name others if you feel that for a general audience they might be somewhere else (out of the versions plugin, maybe?)	[11:04]
LordVan	xavi, ok lemme reload the page ok seen it ;) thanks	[11:05]
chibaguy	ok, luciash, I see that menu has z-index: 0. xavi, I'll do the versions plugin css and add the highlight css where it's missing (for that plugin) -- in coelesce so far noticed.	[11:06]
xavi	thanks chibaguy, and in fact, I could see inmy local that the highlight that I committed is better than nothing, but not as clear as in thenews, since the highlighter yellowish color falls behind the button like bluish in strasa so feel free to improve (but I would suggest anything clearer than just the darker blue from the hover button)	[11:09]
chibaguy	ok, I'll check on that.	[11:09]
xavi	my 2 cents	[11:09]
chibaguy	ok	[11:09]
luciash	chibaguy: i'll add z-index higher than module titles, right ?	[11:10]
chibaguy	yep, should be ok. but module titles don't have a z-index, so..... that's why I think the problem is related to the absolute position of the menu in strasa. (why we don't see the problem in other themes that don't position the menu that way)	[11:10]
luciash	chibaguy: yep, it must be related	[11:15]
chibaguy	time to eat here; will be back soon.	[11:23]
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xavi	luciash: to preserve the environment: why not "Text area & Plugins" as that title at the admin panel? sorry to come back with this issue... and specially now that chibaguy is at dinner time :-/ I'm just enabling some plugins in dev.tw.o, and I thought about it again, sorry I might even commit it myself if not too many places to change (I guess just at one tpl, isn't it?) ok, I see that current "text area" in tiki 3.0 also has settings for things other than just wiki (like forum minimm size)	[11:28]
luciash	xavi: i'm not sure all these settings affect only form textareas	[11:32]
xavi	+1 then to change to "Editing & Plugins", if you don't like the more conservative (towards "preserve" environment) proposal	[11:32]
luciash	it's two tpls	[11:32]
xavi	2 tpl's, ok, not too much , I can cope with it	[11:32]
luciash	tiki-admin-include-anchors.tpl tiki-admin-include-list-sections.tpl	[11:33]
xavi	not only textareas, I agree, after looking to it again	[11:33]
luciash	i can help fix translations but i don't know how to say "Editing" in languages though :) maybe we have already translated "Edit" but not "Editing" i guess	[11:35]
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xavi	neither do I know all langs... :-/ (neither google translate does 100% good translation, but that could help)	[11:40]
	oups, I've just got the plugin help text in dev.tw.o in french! (and my interface has been in English for months) and some minutes ago it was in English, as usual	[11:53]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18468 10/branches/3.0/styles/darkroom.css: [FIX]darkroom: calfocus on tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18469 10/branches/3.0/styles/darkroom.css: [FIX]darkroom: border around day in view mode	[11:54]
chibaguy	I'm back now	[12:01]
xavi	wb chibaguy . so "Editing & Plugins" for those 2 tpls, then.	[12:13]
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chibaguy	Ok, personally I like "and" better than "&" in titles.	[12:19]
xavi	ok chibaguy	[12:19]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18470 10/branches/3.0/styles/strasa.css: [FIX] strasa: slightly higher z-index for css horiz menus to prevent undergoing right col module titles + improvements to the edit/search helper specific to strasa (for now)	[12:24]
chibaguy	yay luciash	[12:24]
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CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18471 10/branches/3.0/ (styles/darkroom.css templates/tiki-calendar_calmode.tpl): [MOD]calendar: a little icon to link to the day detail directly in the day cell	[12:29]
chibaguy	chibaguy wonders if other themes should have styling for that little icon in tiki-calendar_calmode.tpl....)	[12:31]
sylvieg	Is ok in strsa darkroom et thenews... s/et/and in any case the cell classes is hard coded in the template mainly :-(	[12:33]
chibaguy	ah, ok, thanks sylvieg.	[12:34]
sylvieg	I think that the add event button must be smaller too just the green plus will be enough..	[12:34]
xavi	chibaguy and luciash: col size in split plugin is broken to me in strasa, but working as usual with thenews. Example: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=PluginTitleSearch is this easy to fix it myself adding something in strasa.css? in strasa,css I see div.split { border: 1px dashed #696969; clear: both}	[12:39]
luciash	xavi: how broken ?	[12:41]
xavi	hold on... this {SPLIT(colsize=>30%\|5%\|65%)} has no efect in strasa.css the one in the left (35%) and the one in the right (65%) are shown equally wide under strasa, but shown as expected (and as usual) under thenews.css	[12:42]
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xavi	I see that in thenews.css there is no div.split defined.... and related to table.wikiplugin-split, both of them have the same content maybe the "clear: both" is responsible for the problem with width display in split...	[12:45]
chibaguy	I think the left column containing a code plugin might be a problem there... it's coded in css to be 500px wide, so putting it in a table td that's 30% wide would make the entire table very wide. Maybe the browser wants to reduce the 60%-wide td instead.	[12:48]
xavi	about "Editing and Plugins" or "Editing & Plugins": I see "Look & Feel" but "Site Ads and Banners"... any preference from the devs in irc right now?	[12:51]
chibaguy	Yes, I know. Look & Feel should be Look and Feel imho chibaguy tries not to think of erotic alt meanings of phrase.	[12:51]
xavi	why code plugin width "hard"coded in css? :-) alt meanings :-) luciash?	[12:52]
chibaguy	Because without a width, the code box can sometimes be extremely wide, so I wanted it to have a scrollbar in such a case. Ideally, it'd be width: 100% or slightly less... ...but some browsers produced strange results with a percent width, so I made it 500px as a rough idea of what people would want in the center column.	[12:53]
xavi	ok, I understand issues with percent: which browsers, for curiosity? (I never saw that and I've been using % in split plugin for years)	[12:54]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18472 10/branches/3.0/styles/darkroom.css: [MOD]darkroom: beter to put cell with info on a darker background	[12:55]
chibaguy	I'm editing strasa.css now (for versions), so will try something for the split table.	[12:55]
xavi	but I manily use ff if I can, of IE if there is no other option in public or univ. computers	[12:55]
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xavi	thanks again, chibaguy	[12:56]
ricks99	hi all. what is current status of 3.0 release?	[12:56]
xavi	good question ricks99 :-) (and hi). No idea myself relase30process has many things on it	[12:56]
ricks99	tx (and hi xavi)	[12:57]
xavi	xavi 's personal guess is that marclaporte would love to release 3.0 in the next tikifest (ontario, I think) at the latest, if not selforganized the release earlier but please, don't share my personal guess with anyone ;-)	[12:58]
ricks99	ur prob right	[13:00]
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CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18473 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-show_help.tpl: [FIX] tiki show help: usability fix to give hint the help sections are clickable and display "toggle" in a tooltip + if shadowbox is on allow to expand the help to fill the screen in it	[13:03]
chibaguy	xavi, I found that div class="codelisting" can be 95% wide in the split table's tds, so it won't insist on 500px wide and so should conform to the td cell width there. :-) I'll commit the edited strasa.css soon.	[13:05]
xavi	ok, great, thanks	[13:05]
chibaguy	your guess on the release time makes sense to me too. the up-side of the delay is that lots of things are getting fixed/improved.	[13:06]
xavi	code plugin will be much nicer also on wider screen resolutions... :-) :-)	[13:06]
chibaguy	well, it's still 500px wide outside of the wikiplugin_split's table...	[13:07]
xavi	ah, ok	[13:07]
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xavi	no problem, forget my last comment about code plugin in wider screens... xavi wonders how to go back in irc and delete a comment as if it was not written a moment ago :-)	[13:07]
chibaguy	well, that 500px width bothers me too, so I'd like to find a way to have a percentage width.	[13:08]
xavi	hi MatWho and MatWho_ :-)	[13:08]
MatWho_	hi hi_	[13:08]
ricks99	in 3.0, how to disable full-screen option when editing wiki pages? dont see an option on wiki or text area admin pages	[13:09]
marclaporte	on barebones install, there are two different looking edit section icons: why? (on entry page)	[13:10]
xavi	marclaporte, ricks and MatWho_: ok also with renaming "Text area" with "Editing and Plugins"? (see irc back log if needed) s/ricks / ricks99	[13:13]
ricks99	"and" instead of "&"... fine w/ me	[13:13]
xavi	xavi is ready to commit the change in those 2 tpl's...	[13:13]
MatWho_	+1	[13:13]
marclaporte	just label or name of file?	[13:14]
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xavi	so also "Look & Feel" for "Look and Feel"? marclaporte: just labels	[13:14]
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xavi	name of file?	[13:14]
marclaporte	tiki-admin_include_text_area.php	[13:14]
xavi	argh, you are right, name of file should be also, to be consistent...	[13:14]
marclaporte	if you rename file, it's more risky.	[13:15]
xavi	I know (and also tpl file name involved)	[13:15]
marclaporte	I have no opinon, what you think is best	[13:15]
xavi	mmm, -1 to rename files at this pre-3.0 stage	[13:15]
marclaporte	file name and label doesn't have to be consistent	[13:15]
ricks99	agree (with xavi) -1	[13:16]
marclaporte	better but not deal breaker so if you think it's better label, it's ok to change while keeping old file names,	[13:16]
MatWho_	leave a stub for tiki-admin_include_text_area.php and change name of file	[13:16]
xavi	ok. And "Look & Feel" for "Look and Feel"?	[13:16]
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marclaporte	ricks99: on first run, this tiki-admin.php?page=community throws a lot of false messages. Do you know why? xavi: : no objection	[13:25]
ricks99	i think because a new install, a lot of "defautls" are not yet set the options that are not selected are not yet in the db. imho, ideally shouldn't tiki completely populate the preferences table?	[13:26]
xavi	no clear opinion on that, ricks99 myself	[13:29]
amette	dev and doc are svn upped	[13:29]
xavi	hey amette! welcome back! :-)	[13:29]
amette	heya xavi - thanks! :)	[13:29]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03campbe13 * r18474 10/trunk/doc/devtools/release.php: [FIX] undo 18450 replace readline() func	[13:30]
marclaporte	amette: : yay amette : tiki-mind-map?	[13:40]
amette	marclaporte: where does it come from?	[13:40]
marclaporte	instructions are here: http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-mindmap.php	[13:42]
MatWho_	is the "report a bug" page if IE problem fixed/being worked on by someone I have a feew hous spare for bug fixing	[13:43]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03nagendra016 * r18475 10/branches/3.0/lib/setup/prefs.php: [FIX]After a new install, in metatags admin page, enabling one or two options of threadtitle, imagetitle, freetags results in notes which shows information about all three option rather than only changed features.	[13:43]
amette	huaaa... flush, err. flash, well, needs to be flushed, well, whatever... marclaporte: done so this visorFreemind.swf needs to be put there manually every time? doesn't go into the distribution?	[13:44]
sylvieg	MatWho_ I posted a question with np was used in the MODULE if you delete the param np it works	[13:45]
MatWho_	Hi all nagendra016 is our GSOC student from India, who has just started. He is blocked from IRC at University (this will be fixed in a few days) I have sent him some more bugs to look at but it might be nice to say hi.	[13:45]
sylvieg	- there is probably a conflict in the wiki parsing	[13:45]
MatWho_	sylvieg: ok, so is it worth trying to fix?	[13:46]
marclaporte	MatWho: :irc.tikiwiki.org for web access	[13:46]
sylvieg	if somebody has an explanation for using np param...	[13:47]
ricks99	@MatWho_ can nagendra016 join via mibbit?	[13:47]
MatWho_	no the university has blocked mibbit as well!	[13:47]
marclaporte	: amette: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-mindmap.php hahahah	[13:47]
amette	marclaporte: coming marclaporte: distro or custom file= s/=/?	[13:48]
MatWho_	he is off to get a different connection. If he comes back do we still do the ceremony?	[13:48]
marclaporte	yes!	[13:49]
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c_schmitz	guys, I love Tikiwiki	[13:50]
luciash	chibaguy: are you done editing strasa ? c_schmitz: welcome	[13:50]
c_schmitz	but the worst thing ever is that anonymous users can change linked translations - there is no permission to to repvent that - nor there is a log entry to soo what happened	[13:50]
MatWho_	marc OK so when he is back - lets do it.He is working on the admin lockout bug now.	[13:51]
c_schmitz	that really sucks	[13:51]
luciash	chibaguy: need to fix z-index of edit helper	[13:51]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r18476 10/branches/3.0/lib/wiki-plugins/wikiplugin_versions.php: [FIX] Version content given a class for css styling.	[13:51]
c_schmitz	it makes the whole linked translation thingy useless	[13:52]
luciash	chibaguy put 20 instead of 2	[13:52]
ricks99	@c_schmitz: there is a tiki_p_detach_translation permission. remove that from anonymous group?	[13:52]
c_schmitz	it is removed but keeps people only from detaching not changing the language of a page or attaching	[13:53]
xavi	c_schmitz: if you know how to fix, you are welcome	[13:54]
chibaguy	ok luciash, I'll do the edit helper z-index change.	[13:54]
ricks99	sounds like need a new perm	[13:54]
c_schmitz	yes	[13:54]
xavi	c_schmitz: I mean, you are welcome anyway :-). And of course, if you know how to fix, you are welcome to fix it :-)	[13:55]
c_schmitz	xavi: this is not a fix but a whole new permission needed - it is a huge shortcoming from whoever implemented that part - I am, running a Wiki in 6 languages and all the translation links are garbled because of this shortcoming	[13:56]
ricks99	quick fix: maybe just fix the wording on bottom half of "tiki-edit_translation"? or check for specific admin-level perm for the "Change lang for this page" section?	[13:57]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18477 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-plugin_help.tpl: [FIX] plugin help: when using Shadowbox and inserting new plugin block via plugin helper + plugin edit, close Shadowbox "window"	[13:58]
xavi	c_schmitz: we know in wiki-translation.com , bots use to do it form time to time. And so far, nobody found it (or cold look at it). adding a new perm is easy. Unluckily, I'm not a php coder, and it's not adding a perm into the database, probably, but touching the whatever php files that ned to check for that	[13:58]
c_schmitz	what I did in the past was editing the code so the "translate feature' would not show up for anonymous users by attaching it to the detach_translation permission but with an update the changes are (naturally) gone	[13:59]
xavi	c_schmitz: propose those changes in devel list (where other coders for i18n are), and commit your changes to themain code base, I would say this way, we all benefit from your fixes, in the same way that you benefit from the fixes in themain code base	[13:59]
c_schmitz	Xavi: it is mainly caused by users who think that 'transalte' mean they can translate the page an don't realize they are changing the page language	[14:00]
xavi	sorry, I'm off to urgent things to fix before late luch.	[14:01]
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c_schmitz	well.. I guess for the 1.x branch no new feature will be implemented anymore, won't it?	[14:04]
marclaporte	even 2.x, no new feature and 3.x, only in certain cases new features normally go on 4.x	[14:06]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r18478 10/branches/3.0/styles/transitions/2.0to3.0.css: [FIX] Increase #tikihelp z-index (thanks luci).	[14:06]
marclaporte	wow already 4.x time flies	[14:08]
c_schmitz	I see so If i need a permisison like that which version would it be?	[14:10]
sylvieg	did lph develop the plugin interface validation? sorry found it	[14:11]
luciash	chibaguy: thank you	[14:12]
xavi	c_schmitz: trunk (will be 4.0), and to the new branch called "proposed", so that the "Quality team" can review to include it in 3.1 or not (I guess yes, since this is a know bug for long) c_schmitz: see http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Commit the "proposed" branch might not be documented yet, since it's pretty new	[14:12]
marclaporte	c_schmitz: what version are you on?	[14:13]
c_schmitz	latest 2.x	[14:13]
sylvieg	I have a fun one... how can I approve the module register in http://dev.tikiwiki.org/report%20a%20bug	[14:13]
chibaguy	Some of the core themes have #tikihelp css also. I'll add it to the ones that don't, to be safe. But this redundancy will be resolved when layout.css replaces transitions.	[14:13]
marclaporte	because I remember Alain_Desilets explaining that one problem is that people change the page language when they intend to translate	[14:13]
sylvieg	I need to be admin to validate = but I only see it as anonymous :-D	[14:13]
marclaporte	sylvieg: : yes, I know! I created another wiki page with plugin content, so I could validate	[14:14]
sylvieg	btw seems that user modules must be validated now???	[14:14]
marclaporte	sylvieg: I added validation on module plugin	[14:15]
sylvieg	is it optional?	[14:15]
luciash	chibaguy: but seems thenews still have z-index for css horiz menu higher than that	[14:15]
marclaporte	sylvieg: : this is totally debatable and maybe we should remove	[14:15]
xavi	marclaporte: +1 :-)	[14:15]
marclaporte	the thing is, with 100+ modules, I feel it gives too much power to any user	[14:15]
sylvieg	should be a apram I suppose..	[14:15]
marclaporte	to add a module which discloses info that the admin doesn't want to disclose for example I do not know how to make more fined-grained but it's quite annoying now safer, but annoying	[14:16]
sylvieg	and group perms on modyule are not enough?	[14:17]
marclaporte	do we have that now?	[14:17]
ricks99	need to b able to "group" modules & plugins, then mass approve by user group. example: Anon users can auto-approve modules in group Foo, Registered can autoapprove modules in groups Foo and Bar, etc.	[14:17]
sylvieg	I hope it is working..	[14:17]
marclaporte	c_schmitz: i think, in version 3.0, changing the current language of a page, is still there but much less obvious because it's something people should do very rarely	[14:18]
c_schmitz	ok	[14:19]
marclaporte	c_schmitz: can you take a look at branches/3.0 and see if this seems ok, or if you think there still should be an additional perm	[14:19]
c_schmitz	if it can be misused it will be ;)	[14:19]
sylvieg	... this part seems to be missing: MODULE does not check the perm set (I know for column) in admin->modules...	[14:20]
chibaguy	yeah, I'll change that. luciash, oh, wait, maybe I misunderstood.	[14:22]
amette	doc.tw.o is mindmapped	[14:25]
luciash	chibaguy: i'll check your commit	[14:26]
chibaguy	I only committed the transition file so far.	[14:26]
luciash	chibaguy: seems ok, that's what i meant	[14:27]
chibaguy	TheNews gets its css menu z-index from css/cssmenus.css. ah, ok.	[14:27]
luciash	chibaguy: what is the value of it ? is it higher than 20 ?	[14:27]
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xavi	luciash: nice change in "plugin help" display through shadowbox, but nowadays, when you click on the insert icon, the user keeps seing the shadowbox, and he/she would think that he/she did nothing on the text...	[14:28]
MatWho_	hi nagendra016	[14:28]
chibaguy	oh yeah: 800 (#header .cssmenu_horiz)	[14:28]
luciash	xavi: i fixed it	[14:28]
nagendra016	hi	[14:28]
MatWho_	welcome to tikiwiki IRC	[14:28]
xavi	if after insert click, the shadow box could be minimized, that would be even better, from the usability point of view for end users	[14:28]
luciash	xavi: svn up	[14:28]
xavi	nagendra016: welcome to TikiWiki Community! :-)	[14:28]
nagendra016	thank you	[14:28]
ricks99	hi nag	[14:29]
xavi	luciash: well, it's in doc.tw.o :-)	[14:29]
ricks99	nagendra016 (oopd)	[14:29]
MatWho_	hi all can I introduce nagendra016 he is out GSOC sutudent from India	[14:29]
luciash	xavi: amette was svn upping earlier than the fix came out ;)	[14:29]
xavi	so I can't myself, only amette, if he hasn't shared account and howto details :-)	[14:29]
MatWho_	he really starts today, and has just made his first commit!!	[14:29]
nagendra016	hi all	[14:29]
sylvieg	hi nagendra016	[14:29]
luciash	nagendra016: welcome MatWho_: great :)	[14:30]
xavi	luciash: ok	[14:30]
nagendra016	thank you all :)	[14:30]
MatWho_	I have given nagendra016 some onother bug to fix, it is a good way to get him going on Tikiwiki	[14:30]
nagendra016	i am very delighted to be a part of our community	[14:31]
marclaporte	hi nagendra016 and welcome to TikiWiki!	[14:31]
amette	xavi: the howto is the problem find someone that fixes the structure/permission-bug... ;)	[14:31]
xavi	amette, I thought so :-)	[14:31]
amette	... but I'll start documenting without structures! amette goes svn upping	[14:32]
xavi	structure/permission-bug?	[14:32]
amette	yeah, if you're not admin, you can't add pages to a structure	[14:32]
xavi	amette, why not also gtk-recordmysektop-ing?	[14:32]
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amette	the permission-check is wrong	[14:32]
xavi	amette: :-) that's not true at least for 2.4 :-) I've been doing this for month with my students here for production: http://iesbarcelona.org/esso350	[14:32]
amette	because gtk-recordmydesktop-ing facilitates stupid people following stupid guidelines step-by-step without thinking... ... and I want people to understand what they are doing - otherwise it's worthless and doomed to fail.	[14:33]
xavi	ammete, I storngly disagree, but I respect your opinion, of course	[14:34]
amette	hmm, well, in 3.0 it doesn't work, we checked that out in Montreal... ... we traced it to the problematic line, but didn't really know how to fix	[14:34]
xavi	this way, no videos for documentation would be used... and they speed up the process of getting a quick idea of how the thing works	[14:34]
amette	well, however with the videos: it will take more time to get the video stuff running than writing wiki-pages on it ;)	[14:34]
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amette	so I will forget about the structures and start documenting :)	[14:35]
xavi	amette, ok. In 2.4, afair, you had to grant permission on the homepage of the structure,	[14:35]
amette	hmmm.... I have tiki_p_edit_structure (or something like that) for Registered actually I have all the wiki-perms for Registered and no special perms afaik	[14:35]
marclaporte	how do I set perms for modules?	[14:35]
amette	Admin->Modules ??	[14:36]
xavi	amette, afaik, you had to set the local perm on that homepage of the structure for your users also and from there, you can grant also to the other pages of the same structure, afair and they can do it (they can add pages then, I mean, through the top navigational bar)	[14:36]
amette	xavi: I juggled all the perms and gave up, then I debugged that problem (because I wanted to document in Montreal) with nyloth and we didn't get it going... ... and I used that before.. .. so I know that it once worked..	[14:37]
xavi	ok, there might be a bug in 3.x then	[14:38]
amette	xavi: can you try to get it running on your setup in 3.0?	[14:38]
xavi	sorry, not now	[14:38]
amette	yeah, the top navigation bar doesn't even show the possibility to add a page - it's completely missing	[14:38]
xavi	I'm kind of 4h late for deadline for today, aside of tw stuff, which is still quite in most of my screens on the computer (finishing some pages for upgrade, tiki3, multitiki, and file gals behavior for images in tiki 3)	[14:39]
amette	:)	[14:39]
MatWho_	amette: are you up for running a welcome ceremony for nagendra016	[14:40]
amette	MatWho_: I'm always in for a ceremony! :) just need an admin here! :)	[14:41]
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amette	amette gets a cup of coffee first.. luciash: ceremony?! :)	[14:41]
MatWho_	yes!!!	[14:41]
luciash	chibaguy: isn't 800 too high ?	[14:43]
ricks99	@xavi? whats issue w/ structures?	[14:43]
xavi	ask amette	[14:43]
ricks99	seemed ok on my sites (upgradded to 3.0	[14:43]
chibaguy	luciash, I found other z-indexes in the files and 800 was near but not at the top, iirc. can be lowered if there are no problems doing that.	[14:44]
luciash	if you prefer to stay with 800, the #tikihelp must have 801 at least, otherwise the menu goes over in thenews and others which place the help on top right corner sorry, guys, kind of rushy here for the ceremony	[14:44]
chibaguy	I don't have a reason to stay with 800. As long as it's at a good level...	[14:45]
luciash	marclaporte: ? ^	[14:45]
MatWho_	amette: are you back?	[14:48]
amette	MatWho_: back? or back? ;) I'm at least more available again!!	[14:49]
MatWho_	hoho	[14:49]
marclaporte	admin modules permits me to put groups, but not tiki_p_edit, tiki_p_view (http://dev.tikiwiki.org/wish1887)	[14:49]
MatWho_	nagendra016: is waiting to be introduced ..	[14:49]
marclaporte	marclaporte things a dev.tikiwiki.org/z-index page would be welcome to gather common understand on this	[14:49]
chibaguy	marclaporte, I agree; there are actually dozens of z-index settings in our files.	[14:51]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18479 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-edit_help.tpl: no need to display the little help icon only for wiki syntax (no plugins) when there's the complete help on top right	[14:51]
MatWho_	luciash: amette Can we do a ceremony for nagendra016 ? It is his first day and his first commit.	[14:53]
sylvieg	xavi: I am trying to merge which icon like lib/images/icons/abw.png must I use in trunk - the one in trunk or the one in 3?	[14:54]
xavi	the one in 3 is ok	[14:54]
sylvieg	thx	[14:54]
xavi	I ported the fixes to 3 and trunk	[14:55]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18480 10/branches/3.0/lib/smarty_tiki/block.add_help.php: smarty add help block/icon: better not to hardcode the width and height for shadowbox	[14:55]
luciash	MatWho_: try marclaporte or sylvie, if you don't succeed, i'm listening but very busy	[14:55]
xavi	there will be many more icons like that xavi put the ceremony hat on	[14:55]
LordVan	cya	[14:56]
xavi	^ MatWho_ and nagendra016	[14:56]
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xavi	s/put/puts on himself:-)	[14:56]
MatWho_	thanks xavi	[14:56]
xavi	so nagendra016, first question: Do you know and agree with the three rules?	[14:56]
nagendra016	yes i agree	[14:57]
xavi	:-)	[14:57]
nagendra016	:)	[14:57]
xavi	this sounds to me like a wedding! lol	[14:57]
nagendra016	haha	[14:58]
marclaporte	marclaporte takes wedding pictures	[14:58]
MatWho_	Hey take this seriously ;)	[14:59]
xavi	the second question is (in my version of the ceremony, sorry for the other devs ;-): are your ready to be thanked by the community for your commits/fixes? xavi wonders why some people find this question difficult to answer...	[14:59]
nagendra016	yes	[15:00]
xavi	:-) and the third and more difficult one.... xavi hears some devs saying "tachan"... what's your sf.net account?	[15:00]
nagendra016	that easy question :P	[15:01]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18481 10/trunk/ (158 files in 70 dirs): [MRG] Automatic merge, branches/3.0 18299 to 18473	[15:01]
nagendra016	nagendra016	[15:02]
xavi	xavi is confused and delayed because sf.net changed layout...	[15:02]
MatWho_	he is already set up	[15:02]
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nagendra016	:)	[15:03]
MatWho_	just nice to have a ceremony :)	[15:03]
xavi	hey, man, then why the ceremony if not for granting the permissions! :-)	[15:03]
MatWho_	to welcome him to us - WELCOME nagendra016	[15:03]
nagendra016	thank you !! thank you !! :)	[15:04]
xavi	ok, welcome again nagendra016, but this time as official committer to tw! :-)	[15:04]
ricks99	clap	[15:04]
nagendra016	:)	[15:04]
marclaporte	clap clap clap	[15:05]
chibaguy	chibaguy pours drinks	[15:05]
xavi	xavi is still wondering how to find tw project in sf.net using latest konqueror... those software upgrades.... (I feel like the users from a tiki2 site when they will find their site upgraded to tiki3-jqueryfied... :-)	[15:05]
MatWho_	drinks it	[15:05]
chibaguy	chibaguy refills	[15:05]
luciash	luciash missed nagendra016 's commit ?	[15:05]
amette	welcome nagendra016 !! :) amette hugs nagendra016	[15:06]
MatWho_	r18475 /branches/3.0/lib/setup/prefs.php	[15:06]
nagendra016	thank you amette	[15:06]
xavi	nagendra016: so from India and in UK, or is MatWho_ in India drinking from your cup?	[15:06]
luciash	MatWho_: ah	[15:06]
MatWho_	if only I was in India, the tea is very good :)	[15:07]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18482 10/branches/3.0/tiki-admin.php: typo	[15:07]
xavi	:-) xavi vanishes again to unfinished stuff	[15:07]
MatWho_	Thanks all, back to work!	[15:07]
nagendra016	Thanks all :)	[15:08]
rodrigo_sampaio	rodrigo_sampaio just finished reading the page http://doc.tikiwiki.org/TikiWiki+3.0 and is amazed by the huge list of new features in tiki 3.0 :)	[15:09]
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xavi	:-) well, this is not all (hi Rogrido :-), but just the tiny part a few of us could document. The full list is in dev (linked from the beggning of the doc page) s/Rogrido/Rodrigo xavi 's fingers are getting mad because they didn't get any food yet since marclaporte was going to bed... rodrigo_sampaio: for instance, it doesn't say anything about the new version of morcego... :-) so that there is room for improvements from things you know... (I don't very well know the improvements you made in there, btw), as far as it's back working fine :-)	[15:10]
rodrigo_sampaio	xavi: actually i also don't about the improvements in the new version of morcego, i just did the upgrade in tikiwiki, luis is the one who made it a long time ago xavi: i did not have the chance yet to test mindmap but i feel like mindmap and morcego have the same goals, right?	[15:13]
xavi	ok, fine , just realized about the fact that I forgot to mention morcego in there	[15:14]
rodrigo_sampaio	xavi: and morcego is not working on 64bits :(	[15:14]
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luciash	rodrigo_sampaio: and i wondered why morcego java browser doesn't work anymore in my browsers :-o	[15:17]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18483 10/branches/3.0/styles/transitions/2.0to3.0.css: [FIX] z-index 20 for #tikihelp wasn't succesfull, giving it 820 because the css menus have 800 tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18484 10/branches/3.0/ (7 files in 5 dirs): tikiwiki: [FIX]calendar: change only focus when click on change focus link and not when tikiwiki: navigating in the calendar + new_option : viewmode for mod-calendar_new (as was tikiwiki: cited as a feature in doc.tw) + new param month_delay to be able to display one tikiwiki: month before or after +_ some css tuning	[15:17]
rodrigo_sampaio	luciash: maybe one day batawata will fix morcego for 64bits...	[15:18]
chibaguy	ah, luciash, the 800 z-index for css menus is lower than shadowbox? at one point I noticed the menus bleeding through, but am not sure if it got fixed or not.	[15:19]
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CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18485 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-show_help.tpl: no need to keep the help_sections open when opening to shadowbox from there tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r18486 10/branches/3.0/templates/tiki-print_pages.tpl: [FIX] Remove link to nowhere. We would need help with http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Restore+Help+Pages to clean everything up.	[15:25]
rodrigo_sampaio	after upgrading tiki 2.4 to tiki 3.0 RC1 the sidebar is broken (appear below the main content div) using a default tikineat style. any ideas? the url for this is is http://wiki.hacklab.com.br	[15:27]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03pkdille * r18487 10/branches/3.0/styles/coelesce.css: [FIX] coelesce: fix the sitesearchbar look when the selected language is not english	[15:29]
chibaguy	rodrigo_sampaio: tikineat is no longer compatible with Tiki 3.	[15:31]
sylvieg	rodrigo_sampaio: tikineat is no more maintained	[15:31]
chibaguy	:-)	[15:31]
rodrigo_sampaio	chibaguy: ok :)	[15:31]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03xavidp * r18488 10/branches/3.0/templates/ (2 files): tikiwiki: [FIX] As discussed on irc today, change 'Text area' label for 'Editing and tikiwiki: Plugins', and 'Look & Feel' for 'Look and Feel'. Sorry for the inconveniences tikiwiki: for translators, but this is to reduce the number of continuous suport requests tikiwiki: even from devs not finding where to enable plugins, etc.	[15:31]
rodrigo_sampaio	chibaguy: which is the default theme now? as tikineat is not maintained anymore should we put a message for users using tikineat after upgrading?	[15:32]
sylvieg	did you averwrite your intall? on a fresh install it would have work I think there is instruction somewhere how to add lite.css to have old themes working in 3	[15:33]
luciash	luciash wonders why on bare bones default install Tiki changes theme to Strasa after installation :-/	[15:35]
marclaporte	luciash: : log out	[15:36]
sylvieg	s/working in 3/working in 2	[15:36]
luciash	do we really want to clone tw.o sites ?	[15:36]
rodrigo_sampaio	sylvieg: i did an upgrade (copy the new tiki files over the old installation directory), so i still have all the old themes in my tiki installation	[15:36]
marclaporte	if you re-install while already logged in, you get weirdness	[15:36]
luciash	marclaporte: log out ? marclaporte: ah marclaporte: but i'm logged out	[15:36]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r18489 10/branches/3.0/styles/coelesce.css: [FIX] Version plugin styling; #tikihelp z-index increased.	[15:37]
Tikiwiki\|bot	New Forum Posts: admin validation email setup and configured but not working properly! - http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=2&comments_parentId=32883	[15:37]
marclaporte	ok, then I have no explanation :-)	[15:37]
luciash	marclaporte: i only choose "use existing connection"	[15:37]
SEWilco2	Did you flush caches? Maybe the bot should issue a cache flush reminder upon the word "weird" or "weirdness"	[15:37]
luciash	luciash goes to change the site theme to thenews and flush cache to see	[15:38]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r18490 10/branches/3.0/styles/darkroom.css: [FIX] Version plugin styling; #tikihelp z-index increased.	[15:39]
SEWilco2	"Get your thenews here!"	[15:39]
sylvieg	is http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-mindmap.php working? I do not understand what I have to do ...	[15:40]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r18491 10/branches/3.0/styles/feb12.css: [FIX] Version plugin styling; #tikihelp z-index increased.	[15:41]
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marclaporte	sylvieg: : also blank for me :-(	[15:42]
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CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r18492 10/branches/3.0/styles/strasa.css: [FIX] Version plugin styling; #tikihelp z-index increased.	[15:44]
luciash	SEWilco2: you wereright, now it works	[15:45]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r18493 10/branches/3.0/styles/thenews.css: [FIX] Version plugin styling; #tikihelp z-index increased.	[15:46]
SEWilco2	luciash: No, you were right to describe it as "weird". That's all that I responded to.	[15:46]
sylvieg	marclaporte: what are you suppose to put in the input box?	[15:46]
luciash	marclaporte: funny i get now _HOMEPAGE_CONTENT_ when i choosed czech language during the installation	[15:46]
SEWilco2	Up and up the z-index goes.	[15:46]
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SEWilco2	That doesn't look Czech.	[15:47]
luciash	marclaporte: seems newbie is lost when not remembering admin:admin from the installation steps and translator will be lost because in language.php they will get no idea what to put there SEWilco2: heh about the z-index chibaguy: actually for strasa the z-index for #tikihelp wasn't necessary to increase because the #tikihelp appears under the header not over it as in other themes chibaguy: but it shouldn't hurt anyway	[15:47]
chibaguy	ok, btw, why does strasa have different #tikihelp css than other themes (width and height are different, for example)?	[15:49]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r18494 10/branches/3.0/styles/layout/layout.css: [FIX] Version plugin styling; #tikihelp z-index increased.	[15:51]
chibaguy	any idea?	[15:51]
luciash	chibaguy: because i was improving the look of it specifically for strasa and while placing it under #header (there was nice space for it) i had to change the height of it, otherwise it went too down with these percents, then i found out it's very hard to doo it with percents at all so i changed to pixels and the result is fine i think	[15:51]
chibaguy	ok, was just wondering.	[15:51]
marclaporte	marclaporte wishes we could set password in installer with a checkbox, force change at first run optional off, but this would be useful for farms	[15:53]
xavi	rodrigo_sampaio: morcego and wiki 3d cited in tiki3 page. My 2 cents to honur your work ;-) s/honur/honour http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki3 I mean	[15:54]
luciash	luciash thought it's batawata's baby	[15:54]
xavi	luciash: yes, but rodrigo_sampaio did the implementation in tiki :-)	[15:55]
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luciash	aah, really ?	[15:55]
xavi	or the upgrade in tiki3, anyhow, share part of paternality :-)	[15:55]
luciash	iirc it's there for ages, but might be improved in tiki3, unfortunatelly it doesn't work for me on doc.tw.o	[15:56]
MatWho_	marclaporte: I will give it to nagendra once he has fixed the admin lock out bug marclaporte: its all good warm up stuff!	[15:56]
luciash	g, /me just realized profiles have different themes	[15:57]
xavi	luciash: are you on 64bit box?	[15:57]
luciash	xavi: i have no idea but my machine was changed recently so it's possible, yes :-p	[15:57]
marclaporte	MatWho_ : yay! that will make it easier for new people	[15:57]
rodrigo_sampaio	xavi: thanks :)	[15:57]
xavi	a pleasure :-)	[15:58]
rodrigo_sampaio	luciash: morcego is batawata baby, all i did was update the morcego version in tiki	[15:58]
MatWho_	marclaporte: he was very happy to have a ceremony, thanks everyone	[15:58]
luciash	MatWho_ and marclaporte: trunk or 3.0 ? this admin pass setting in installer is very sensitive imho and needs some time for testing	[15:59]
MatWho_	marclaporte: do you have requirements for admin password change on a wiki page somwhere?	[15:59]
Tikiwiki\|bot	New Forum Posts: Edit button not showing - http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=32884	[15:59]
luciash	rodrigo_sampaio: ah, great	[15:59]
MatWho_	luciash: sure	[15:59]
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sylvieg	+1 luciash	[16:00]
marclaporte	marclaporte is pretty sure he'll get in trouble with Quality Team but perhaps they won't notice	[16:01]
MatWho_	luciash: so what is it sensitive to exactly marclaporte: this is for trunk not 3.0 sorry I assumed that was obvious	[16:01]
luciash	MatWho_: security, mess-up when user sets his password and then forgots, etc.	[16:02]
marclaporte	hehe still excellent on trunk so we can test and apply for 3.1	[16:02]
MatWho_	marclaporte: no seriously, feature freeze on 3.0 is very important	[16:03]
sylvieg	+1 marclaporte 'can' does not mena we will do... or I need some English lesson	[16:03]
marclaporte	apply: I mean submit an application for review/approval by quality team	[16:04]
MatWho_	sylvieg: I will try to use trunk as much as I can. Just wonder if all the activity on 3.0 recently is going to be there.	[16:05]
sylvieg	I just merged .. 1 hour ago...	[16:06]
luciash	MatWho_: i'm switching to trunk today ;)	[16:06]
MatWho_	OK that is all great. hey this is going to work out well!!	[16:06]
sylvieg	if merges are not done enough oftern - do it yourself or ask me ;-)	[16:07]
MatWho_	OK I will try both! Thanks.	[16:07]
xavi	marclaporte: quick question. is trim designed also to handle different tikis in the same server, or only in different servers? xavi is upgrading "Multitiki" page in doc.tw.o	[16:16]
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sylvieg	can be same server but different tiki root (not multitiki)	[16:17]
xavi	yes, I know it's not multitiki. ok, thanks, from your answer I guess that yes, uit's been designed to also handle different tiki installations in the same server, not only in different servers. thanks sylvieg	[16:18]
marclaporte	xavi: : could be on same server, TRIM asks which directory	[16:18]
xavi	ok, thanks	[16:19]
sylvieg	for the multitiki , mose/niclone have a metaw.. they never commit - but if .... perhaps	[16:20]
xavi	btw, I don't knwo how to set up a multitiki using only ftp (symlinks are needed in my approach, the closest to multitiki by ftp...): http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Manual+Installation sylvieg: metaw ?	[16:20]
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chibaguy	cya later, everyone. :-)	[16:21]
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CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18495 10/trunk/tiki-listpages.php: [FIX]listpage: memo orphan choice	[16:43]
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rodrigo_sampaio	another issue after migrating from 2.4 to 3.0: the plugin toc is enabled in the plugin manager but it displays a message "WARNING: Plugin disabled toc!". ideas?	[16:55]
sylvieg	you need to validate them manually the list is in tiki-plugins.php	[16:59]
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rodrigo_sampaio	sylvieg: on tiki-plugins.php: "No plugin pending approval."	[17:03]
ricks99	@rodrigo confirm the plugin is enabled, clear tiki cache	[17:04]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18496 10/branches/3.0/lib/menubuilder/menulib.php: [FIX]menu: to have the selected option working with an url with :	[17:04]
sylvieg	disabled - sorry need to go to admin->plugin and allowed it	[17:04]
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rodrigo_sampaio	ricks99, sylvieg: the plugins is enabled in admin -> text area -> plugins. i've checked the database base and in tiki_preferences i have wikiplugin_toc: 'y'	[17:06]
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rodrigo_sampaio	im going to clean the cache and test it again	[17:07]
xavi	rodrigo_sampaio: this is known issue upgrade disable the structures, unluckily :-( It happened to me days ago.	[17:07]
rodrigo_sampaio	xavi: there is a know fix?	[17:07]
xavi	I added it yesterday (or ealier this morning) to the release30process on dev.tw.o I don't know how to fix	[17:07]
ricks99	@xavi: wrt structures, becaise struts are now optional (disabled by default)	[17:07]
sylvieg	the prefs feautre_structures? or something like this?	[17:07]
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xavi	oh well, yes, there should be somewhere in the upgrade sql scritps (installer/schema) where structures are disabled ricks99: ok for new install disabled by default, but for the god's sake: not on upgrade!	[17:08]
ricks99	in 2.x if wiki=y, then i agree 100%	[17:09]
xavi	this is anoying to existing admins doing upgrades and getting confusing messages my 2 cents	[17:09]
ricks99	i also found that the {poll id=xx} is no longer valid (although {poll pollId=XX} works ^ found while upgrading Smarties to 3.0 other than that, upgrade was very smooth	[17:09]
xavi	please, those of you who did upgrades, review the http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Upgrade and it's corresponding pages	[17:10]
mlaporte	the condition for keeping structures should not be wiki=y but if there are any structures	[17:10]
xavi	I did my best, but other eyes are needed to avoid further support requests of users getting confused mlaporte: +1	[17:11]
mlaporte	count structures > 0	[17:11]
ricks99	@xav: should this b in rel notes instead/in addition?	[17:11]
mlaporte	because so many people never used structures and they just have dead / extra links	[17:11]
ricks99	theres a link from installer to rel notes, but not to this Upgrade doc	[17:11]
xavi	last: I started to document the new behavior for image galleries usingn file galleries. People were getting lost, and requesting help in tw.o forums... please, review and improve: http://doc.tikiwiki.org/File+Gallery+for+Images or move elsewhere I NEED FOOD!	[17:12]
rodrigo_sampaio	i'm using tikinewt after the upgrade. i cant browse through the tabs of some of the admin pages (for example in the wiki and text area admin). can anyone confirm this?	[17:12]
ricks99	*rick loves structures :)	[17:12]
xavi	c u, enough for today for me congrats to all for you hard work improving tiki 3! :-) I won't be able to be much on irc for some days. I need to meet non-tiki deadlines cheers	[17:12]
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sylvieg	thx to you too xavi good evening	[17:14]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03luciash * r18497 10/branches/3.0/styles/thenews.css: [FIX] thenews theme: put #tikihelp 25px from top for this theme so it doesn't cover the search bar input and it leaves space for the fullscreen feature icon too	[17:15]
sylvieg	rodrigo_sampaio: confirms too	[17:17]
rodrigo_sampaio	sylvieg: ill try to fix it	[17:18]
sylvieg	the newt is the less standard one	[17:18]
rodrigo_sampaio	sylvieg: im using it after the upgrade as it is the more similar to the good old tikineat :)	[17:19]
luciash	sylvieg, rodrigo_sampaio : there are slight differencies, i think it should be done like on General or Features pages for the other ones too to be consistent e.g. on Features it also remembers last opened tab and switches to it after applying changes (cookietab) but i thing it's huge work still to be fixed and tested on trunk first, then maybe backported to 3.1	[17:21]
rodrigo_sampaio	luciash: right now i have only a few minutes to it and then i have to go back to work. im just going to look for a quick fix to the tabs that hidden	[17:23]
luciash	rodrigo_sampaio: check on which admin page they work and take as a model	[17:23]
rodrigo_sampaio	luciash: thanks	[17:24]
CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18498 10/branches/3.0/modules/mod-calendar_new.php: [FIX]calendar_new: pick the current date for month_delay not now	[17:34]
.... (idle for 15mn)
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mark_f	Hi - getting stumped by custom site header. looked at http://doc.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Site%20Identity&redirectpage=Site%20Logo%20and%20Identity%20Config amongst others - got the images to display. The problem is the text to display as a site title. It ends up below the images, not overlaid as I would like. Heres the code I used: http://widget.mibbit.com/pb/iXNT2B	[17:52]
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luciash	mark_f: you have to position the h1 via style	[17:56]
mark_f	Ok, can you point me in the right direction - I have no idea!	[17:57]
luciash	e.g. style="position: absolute; left: 5px; top: 15px"	[17:58]
mark_f	Sorted - thanks:D	[17:59]
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mark_f	Luciash helped me get an openstreetmap displaying in a wiki page as a module the other night. I got stuck when i had a tall thin map and he suggested "width=100%". I had to go to bed after trying various searches and permutations. this is what I have now, but it doesn't work Can someone show me how to format the code. Thanks +++	[18:19]
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CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03pkdille * r18499 10/branches/3.0/styles/coelesce.css: [FIX] coelesce: different parts of find section should not wrap	[18:53]
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luciash	salut patrickallard :)	[18:59]
patrickallard	Salut, Luciash	[18:59]
luciash	mark_f: what you have now ? mark_f: any link ?	[19:00]
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patrickallard	http://avantech.ourwiki.net/tiki-index.php I use Thenews Theme but I want juste a simple theme not fullscreen option	[19:05]
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patrickallard	because i want customize thme for a simple center design with no column and watch at the button of this page the white space the backgrond doesn't go at the button of the page I searh why	[19:06]
luciash	patrickallard: you can remove the modules from left/right patrickallard: something like this Tiki 3.0 site ? → www.menghao.cz	[19:09]
patrickallard	yes I know but I have problem with the white space in the footer	[19:10]
luciash	ah, give #main height: 100% for IE and min-height: 100% for others then the included content div must have 100% too can you do that ?	[19:12]
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luciash	patrickallard: if you only want to have the background gradient follow whole browser viewport, then move it from body {} to html {} in CSS s/follow/fill/	[19:15]
patrickallard	No the white space is still there I try ok for the background :)	[19:15]
luciash	patrickallard: move to html helps, ok ?	[19:18]
patrickallard	yes thank you I will try to remove the space in the bottom of page you have a idea?	[19:18]
luciash	you must play with the height: 100%	[19:20]
patrickallard	in the #main?	[19:20]
luciash	#main and then the others which are inside but i think body needs it too to make it work search internet for full-height css solution	[19:21]
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patrickallard	I think it's this tag .clearfix:after { clear: both;visibility: hidden;content: "."; display: block;height: 0;} content:"." what that? when i remove this the bottom of ppage is ok	[19:23]
luciash	ah, it renders a dot there	[19:27]
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luciash	patrickallard: you can specify #tiki-top.clearfix:after, #middle.clearfix:after {content: ""; display: none}, it's not needed for them actually i think but it can be necessary for other tags err, sorry, not for tiki-top, only for the #middle	[19:33]
patrickallard	ok	[19:35]
luciash	if it doesn't help, let me know	[19:35]
patrickallard	no It ils the same probleme with the bottom	[19:40]
luciash	try the same with #wrapper or #tiki-center ? and #footer it must be one of them ;) or all of them :) (ah, you have no #footer there)	[19:41]
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mib_d33uej	Hi, A few months ago I installed TikiWiki to my website. Unfortunately, things are going in a different direction for my site and I need to remove TW and all of the associated files and content. How do I do this?	[20:04]
MatWho	just delete all of the files and remove the database you created - i think that is all	[20:07]
mib_d33uej	I am not sure which files were there before I got TW, so I don't know what is safe to get rid of	[20:17]
MatWho	oh dear where ever you installed tw is where the files are you need to delete	[20:21]
mib_d33uej	alright, thank you	[20:24]
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marclaporte	gezza: : tks for translations	[20:40]
nyloth	Hi all :)	[20:40]
marclaporte	hi nyloth!	[20:40]
SEWilco2	SEWilco2 has to think for a moment to translate "tks" :-)	[20:41]
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MatWho	hi	[20:47]
sylvieg	so do I commit an option to have calendar view list either on period boundary or from focudate + focudate+period in 3.0? last message from nyloth was yes... seems not dangeurous at all	[20:50]
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nyloth	sylvieg: personnaly I trust you, do what you feel is better since its a usability fix	[20:54]
sylvieg	thx - I do not trust myself...	[20:55]
nyloth	:)	[20:56]
sylvieg	it is a smaller change - smaller than the focus change - but it is a -new- feature / bug fix	[20:57]
mark_f	trying to get a module to display 100% width bu cant get the syntax. Ploease help	[20:58]
gezza	hi marclaporte: no problem :) I have a question though: the mouseover descriptions of WYSIWYG editor buttons dont seem to react to translation. Any hints what I should do to get them translated?	[21:00]
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marclaporte	gezza: no idea perhaps in FCKEditor stuff?	[21:03]
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Tikiwiki\|bot	Info: June 11-12-13-14, 2009: TikiFest Québec and online! - http://info.tikiwiki.org/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=60	[21:06]
gezza	ok, I look it up, maybe find something	[21:06]
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CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03nyloth * r18500 10/branches/3.0/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [FIX] fren translations + change how TR are placed in one tip in admin wiki in order to be able to translate it correctly tikiwiki: 03nyloth * r18501 10/branches/3.0/ (installer/tiki-installer.php templates/tiki-install.tpl): tikiwiki: [FIX][ENH] installer: in step 6/7, get existing info from database if exists, to tikiwiki: prefill fields with old values in case of an upgrade. Do not skip this step tikiwiki: anymore in this case. This was a 3.0 blocker. + fix SSL preferences set by the tikiwiki: installer (there was a typo in the feature name)	[21:08]
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CIA-46	tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r18502 10/branches/3.0/ (6 files in 3 dirs): [FIX]calendar: option to have the list view to begin on the focus date or on the period first date + fix when list view since the focus date - to have effectively all the events of the period	[21:24]
marclaporte	tks Nyloth: this will save a lot of people a lot of time	[21:36]
Tikiwiki\|bot	New Forum Posts: Module in wiki page full width - http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=32886	[21:37]
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.... (idle for 18mn)
nyloth	marclaporte: :)	[22:07]
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nyloth	marclaporte: I know that you don't like the "page has been saved..." message after saving a wiki page... but concretly, what is the real problem with it ? It is in the list of blockers, but addind an option for messages seems going too much deep in the optionality from my point of view. We already have a huge amount of options. What if we make optionnal every messages everywhere ? Honestly I don't understand right now what is bad with this message.. .	[22:16]
marclaporte	nyloth: : I think Gary put on list of blockers some of the problems we had have been solved. 1 problem was in the stats/URLs I think that may be solved since the URL is different, it counted as a different page for Google Analytics. CGCOM had mentioned this to me.	[22:17]
nyloth	marclaporte: yes, I saw it's gary, but he is not here and you had the same opinion.	[22:18]
marclaporte	ok	[22:19]
nyloth	marclaporte: I remember the problem with URLs/bookmarks, but this is fixed nowadays, as you say.	[22:19]
marclaporte	second problem was in terms of themes. Since the themes were not adapted, it looked very ugly in some cases	[22:19]
sylvieg	I think the guys wanted the info in session to have a clena url is it fixed?	[22:20]
nyloth	sylvieg: yes, it is fixed sylvieg: since a long time now	[22:20]
sylvieg	I suppose I work on non svn up version sometimes - ok - thx	[22:22]
marclaporte	since themes are now ok and URL is nice, I am OK with this message	[22:22]
nyloth	marclaporte: ok, for you, is there a need to make it optional ? is the theme option still there ? For themes, honestly, I can't imagine that there is a real problem with a simple message at the top of the page when the whole HTML structure was changed in 2.x and 3.x ..... sylvieg: try on dev.tw.o , it's up-to-date, and see if it's ok for you	[22:22]
sylvieg	my local is ok	[22:23]
nyloth	marclaporte: ok, so I need to check with gary then	[22:23]
marclaporte	yup :-)	[22:23]
nyloth	marclaporte: I can make options, but I think it's crazy to have one option per message	[22:23]
sylvieg	I am asking sebastien	[22:24]
nyloth	marclaporte: thx for your answer ;)	[22:24]
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sylvieg	:-)	[22:24]
slordjette	Hello	[22:24]
nyloth	hi slordjette :)	[22:24]
slordjette	Hey nyloth	[22:24]
sylvieg	so slordjette - do you want an option for the save message? or a clean url is enough for me a clean url is enough	[22:24]
slordjette	I think so, too.	[22:25]
nyloth	great :) ok, thanx, I suppose we will be able to remove it from blockers then...	[22:25]
slordjette	What would be a good use case for a message in the url ? In my opinion, it just creates url in the stats...	[22:25]
nyloth	slordjette: yep. It's no more the case if you try a quite recent 3.0 slordjette: should already be ok for you on a recent code	[22:26]
slordjette	But what was the use of this "feature" in the first place ? I has always bugged me from the day it was implemented... 2.0 I thnik.	[22:27]
sylvieg	do we reintroduce the jscalendar stuff (see devel)? perhaps we can invite this guy to be in the team?	[22:32]
nyloth	slordjette: I coded it but I think pkdille will be able to answser this question more than me. Some users asked for it.	[22:34]
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sylvieg	nyloth is a slave ;-) me too..	[22:35]
nyloth	slordjette: I suppose that when you make small changes in a big page, it's better for some users to have a message that garanties the save has worked, or something like that sylvieg: sometimes :)	[22:35]
slordjette	Well, in that case, the message in the page is OK. But adding &save=y (if I remember well) in the URL is irrelevant.	[22:38]
nyloth	sylvieg: I would agree on jscalendar if it's not too much visible. The revamp tried to make a lighter UI which is usually better for users / more professional. sylvieg: in which team ? sylvieg: QT ?	[22:38]
sylvieg	tw devel	[22:38]
Tikiwiki\|bot	Welcome to the official Tikiwiki English Irc Channel. TikiWiki or better known as TW, is your Groupware/CMS (Content Management System) solution, you can get more infomation at http://info.tikiwiki.org/ .	[22:38]
nyloth	slordjette: ok :) btw the save=y is no more there	[22:39]
slordjette	Yeah, I know. Good thing.	[22:40]
nyloth	sylvieg: so you meant "on the list", not "in the team" ;) sylvieg: well, he is already tw devel subscriber, no ?	[22:41]
sylvieg	we do not handle very well people who propose patches	[22:42]
nyloth	sylvieg: yes I know, this worry me too. Patches are usually not applied. He should commit directly.	[22:43]
marclaporte	sylvieg: : http://dev.tikiwiki.org/Report+a+Bug -> module is not parsed, even if http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-admin_modules.php?um_edit=registration_info&cookietab=2#editcreate slordjette: can you put nice new tikifest logos on http://info.tikiwiki.org/tiki-index.php ?	[22:46]
slordjette	Huh, sure. I though Nelson and Martin would do it since it's their TF...	[22:49]
sylvieg	ok marclaporte- on my list - in any case there is a couple of bugs around it... now trying to fix all the cal bug I can see	[22:50]
marclaporte	tks sylvieg and slordjette	[22:50]
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nyloth	sylvieg: since we are speaking about that, really thanx a lot for making so much bugfixes and taking care of quality. I was feeling that it was something forgotten by too many people in tiki last years.	[22:54]
chibaguy	Hi, I read the log about the "saved by" message and will agree to go along with the majority on this. :-)	[22:55]
nyloth	sylvieg: there is a lot of people that prefers a quite bug-free software with a few features rather than a full-featured software with bugs or display problems everywhere chibaguy: hi, ok, thanx :)	[22:55]
gezza	hi! i would need some advise about the wysiwyg fckeditor i noticed that the frontend does not respect the language selection of TW although the necessary translation is present in the fckeditor lib in TW, also the FCKConfig.AutoDetectLanguage property is set to true in the fckconfig file, browser is in my language, also OS, so all should be good to go	[22:58]
sylvieg	perhaps .. we are beginning a thanks circle - but slordjette , for example, is a sponsor who prefers good habit to save money ... everything is about balance,,,	[22:58]
gezza	does someone know who implemented this? maybe he/she could advise what to do	[22:59]
nyloth	:)	[22:59]
gezza	it would be useful at the office where we use TW, many colleagues dont speak english :)	[23:00]
nyloth	gezza: implementation has been made by multiple people and started by a guy you will have difficulties to find (mose) :)	[23:01]
sylvieg	but every setting is in a file..	[23:01]
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nyloth	gezza: I think it work for french in our config, but personally I'm not using wysiwyg (yet) because it's too much experimental (in my opinion)	[23:02]
gezza	nyloth: I see..but can you confirm it is the same for you? maybe something is wrong on my end.. nyloth: it worked by default or u hacked something? and yes, it is a bit xperimental but very good for end users, gives them the familiar "MS office" feeling and they tend to invlove more in content writing since I switched it on they just complain about the english stuff :)	[23:02]
nyloth	gezza: no hack here :) gezza: I just tried on a fresh 3.0 install, it works out-of-the-box for french gezza: Try a fresh install in french and check if it's in french or english	[23:05]
sylvieg	gezza: which language?	[23:06]
nyloth	gezza: yes I know, it's our organisation that paid mose for it for the same reasons, but... it's not future-proof yet gezza: we are still working on it	[23:07]
gezza	i also have tiki3rc1 now, i am testing it, switched to french, wysiwyg stayed in english	[23:08]
nyloth	gezza: hmm... with an install done in which language ? french ?	[23:08]
gezza	sylvieg: hungarian no, install script was run in english wait, i make a new db and try	[23:08]
nyloth	gezza: 'k	[23:09]
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nyloth	gezza: I need to go now, it's late here	[23:19]
gezza	nyloth: it works with feash instal tried french and hungarian too thanks for the tip	[23:22]
nyloth	gezza: ok, great :) So, good day/night all	[23:23]
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mib_3pov25	Hello, I currently enabled need admin validation as its not working and i have a valid email account setup for admin. I am running the latest centos and tikiwiki2.4 with firefox latest version. I have linux firewall turned off and disabled SELinux. So when a new user registeres, admin should receive the email in which they dont. But if i login to tikiwiki wi sometimes i receive the email that someone registered but most of the time i dont not sure what is wrong	[23:46]
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chibaguy	mib_3pov25, sorry, this is the slow time of day in this channel. Maybe you should try again in 12 hours or so.	[23:53]

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