[00:01] chealer: how many modules left? [00:03] marclaporte: 37 [00:07] *** kiilo1 has quit IRC ("Leaving.") [00:10] * marclaporte sends energy waves to chealer [00:13] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21852 10/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [MOD] lesser magic: menu options [00:19] marclaporte: the problem is really the size of those left... 2516 PHP lines [00:19] oh! [00:32] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21853 10/trunk/lib/prefs/feature.php: [FIX] typo for lesser magic [00:33] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21854 10/trunk/templates/ (2 files): [MOD] re-order admin panels. [00:41] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21855 10/trunk/ (lib/prefs/feature.php templates/tiki-admin-include-look.tpl): [MOD] Lesser magic for feature_breadcrumbs. Ricks99: can you add the WYSIWYCA? [00:50] *** Caarrie|away is now known as Caarrie [00:54] *** nkoth has quit IRC () [01:05] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21856 10/trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [MOD] More admin panel re-org [01:13] *** MartinCleaver has quit IRC () [01:14] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21857 10/trunk/templates/ (2 files): [MOD] Moving user-related settings/features to the Community admin panel [01:17] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21858 10/trunk/templates/tiki-admin-include-general.tpl: [MOD] Admin panels: a new __server__ section [01:21] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21859 10/trunk/templates/ (tiki-admin-include-general.tpl tiki-admin-include-look.tpl): [MOD] Move Separators to Look & Feel [01:22] *** MartinCleaver has joined #tikiwiki [01:24] *** MartinCleaver has left [01:26] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21860 10/trunk/templates/tiki-admin-include-general.tpl: [FIX] Cosmetic changes [01:35] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21861 10/trunk/templates/ (2 files): [FIX] Cosmetic changes [01:38] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21862 10/trunk/templates/tiki-admin-include-login.tpl: [FIX] url_after_validation is only if users are self-registering [01:53] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21863 10/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [FIX] improve admin panel for Tiki friends [02:15] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21864 10/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [MOD] Lesser magic [02:20] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21865 10/trunk/templates/ (2 files): [MOD] Move feature_contact near its suboptions. Once Ricks99 has solved lesser magic templates, we can move back to features admin panel (but for now, I don't want to clutter) [02:38] *** Redhatter has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) [02:39] tikiwiki: 03chealer * r21866 10/trunk/templates/tiki-admingroups.tpl: [FIX] typo "persmissions" -> "permissions" [02:39] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21867 10/trunk/templates/tiki-admin-include-community.tpl: [FIX] improve admin panel for Tiki messages [02:47] where was http://doc.tikiwiki.org/Tiki4#Anonymous_group_not_included_by_default_in_Registered_ discussed? [02:53] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21868 10/trunk/templates/tiki-admin-include-messages.tpl: [FIX] improve admin panel for Tiki messages [02:57] *** Caarrie is now known as Caarrie|sleeping [02:58] *** ricks99_ has quit IRC ("Get more Tiki help from TikiWiki for Smarties: http://twbasics.keycontent.org") [03:12] tikiwiki: 03chealer * r21869 10/trunk/lib/smarty_tiki/modifier.username.php: [FIX] username modifier: HTML special chars encoding [03:34] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21870 10/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [FIx] Avoid various unwanted messages about activating or de-activating features. There are still some problems with tiki-admin.php?page=login, look, i18n and wiki [03:40] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21871 10/trunk/templates/ (tiki-admin-include-general.tpl tiki-admin-include-wiki.tpl): [MOD] moving options in admin panels. feature_wiki_1like_redirection and feature_redirect_on_error look suspiciously similar [03:45] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21872 10/trunk/templates/ (2 files): [MOD] Move cache settings to new performance admin panel [03:53] *** timotiCK has joined #TIKIWIKI [03:54] *** timotiCK has left [03:59] *** cheal has joined #tikiwiki [03:59] *** chealer has quit IRC (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) [04:00] tikiwiki: 03chealer * r21873 10/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [04:00] tikiwiki: [ENH] change last_blog_posts module to new module style (modules-doc). [04:00] tikiwiki: [FIX] HTML special chars encoding [04:00] tikiwiki: [FIX] notices [04:02] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21874 10/trunk/templates/ (tiki-admin-include-features.tpl tiki-admin-include-wiki.tpl): [MOD] Lesser magice feature_wiki_save_draft} [04:03] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21875 10/trunk/lib/prefs/feature.php: [MOD] Lesser magice feature_wiki_save_draft} [04:04] tikiwiki: 03marclaporte * r21876 10/trunk/templates/tiki-admin-include-general.tpl: [FIX] improve admin panel for navigation section [04:17] *** newbee has joined #tikiwiki [04:17] *** newbee has quit IRC (Nick collision from syn.) [04:18] *** mib_56coyu has joined #tikiwiki [04:18] *** mib_56coyu has quit IRC (Nick collision from syn.) [04:18] polom [05:23] *** timotiCK has joined #TIKIWIKI [05:23] *** timotiCK has left [05:28] *** SEWilco2 has quit IRC ("Leaving.") [06:15] tikiwiki: 03chealer * r21877 10/trunk/templates/ (3 files): [FIX] HTML special chars encoding [06:18] tikiwiki: 03chealer * r21878 10/trunk/ (39 files in 38 dirs): [06:18] tikiwiki: [ENH] change last_modif_events module to new module style (modules-doc). [06:18] tikiwiki: [FIX] HTML special chars encoding [06:18] tikiwiki: [FIX] typo "modifed" -> "modified" [06:42] I got several "Your edit session will expire in 1 minute.You must PREVIEW or SAVE your work now, to avoid losing your edits." in the last days on trunk, a normal time after page load, but in screens other than tiki-editpage.php [06:46] *** cheal is now known as chealer [06:53] *** sylvieg has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [07:04] tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r21879 10/trunk/styles/ (empty.css layout/design-reference.css layout/design.css): [MOD] Keep highlight-state button background color within button (already implemented in some themes). Add import design.css to empty.css. [07:04] *** chibaguy has joined #tikiwiki [07:16] *** chibaguy has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) [07:17] *** Beestje has joined #tikiwiki [07:18] *** gezza has joined #tikiwiki [07:18] *** Wilkins has joined #tikiwiki [07:41] *** chibaguy has joined #tikiwiki [07:51] *** kiilo has joined #tikiwiki [07:56] *** gezza has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) [08:29] polom polom [08:30] chibaguy: what do you think, shouldn't we keep only comments and empty curly brackets for the selectors in the *-reference.css files ? [08:31] yes [08:33] cool, i agree [08:33] on next commit i will do that [08:35] ok [08:35] though i am not sure if they are the right way how to do it... i have spotted some scripts in doc/devtools/ which can crawl the selectors from css files if i am not mistaken (haven't tested them) [08:35] have to try [08:39] ok. IIRC, I removed comments manually from the files, before, but am not sure how completely. [08:40] i mean not to remove comments, i mean the definitions inside the curly brackets [08:40] in the reference file [08:41] i think if it serves as a reference it should have some comments what selector is what intended for [08:41] ah, I misunderstood. You are thinking of making the reference only a list of selectors? [08:42] with no properties? [08:42] yes, with comments, no properties inside, because now we have to keep updating the file on every little change [08:42] um, ok, I see. [08:44] like: /* "button" links wrappers */ .button { } [08:45] yes, ok. [08:45] optionally there could be more descriptive comment inside the curly brackets like: { /* here will be dragons */ } [08:46] fine, so the reference file would be necessary only when new selector is added to design.css or layout.css [08:46] *would be necessary to update [08:46] or removed [08:47] I'd say either comment, then selector on new line, or selector and comment inside brackets. Well, whatever is most clear - easy to find selector in file, and see comment, etc. [08:47] hm, maybe that's not clear. [08:47] heh [08:48] well, the last sentence from you wasn't clear to me [08:49] Anyway, I'm thinking it should use standard CSS formatting. Or maybe like that only with comments inside the brackets. [08:50] yep, you mean no non-standard stuff like empty properties ? [08:51] would be nice if doxygen could read it and interpret... [08:51] yes [08:51] so we have kind of api for CSS [08:52] *** jonnyb has joined #tikiwiki [08:52] hallo london [08:53] *** gezza has joined #tikiwiki [08:54] tikiwiki: 03pkdille * r21880 10/trunk/templates/tiki_full.tpl: [FIX] tiki_full: give the same css structure when tiki_full template is used (file manager and wiki fullscreen edition textarea. This gives the same fonts in the wiki fullscreen textarea as in "normal" wiki editor screen [08:57] oh, fullscreen edit works for pkdille ? not for me in opera 10 :( [09:00] yeah, not for me either. I just checked. Page kind of refreshes, but back to same normal view. [09:01] doesn't work in ie7 either, fwiw. [09:01] (happened to be checking stuff in ie7 just now) [09:01] HiAll! I have upgraded one of my sites to 3.2 but now can not log in, only the top bar appears, the rest remains blank. you can check here @ http://oregional.hu [09:02] it is using the coelesce theme [09:02] *** kiilo has quit IRC ("Leaving.") [09:02] cleared cache, deleted templates & styles folder and coped only 3.2 files there but did not help [09:03] how can I debug this? [09:04] gezza: from what version ? [09:04] 3.0 [09:04] is skipped 3.1 [09:04] hm [09:04] and I run the tiki-install script [09:04] so updated the db [09:04] actually the installer was running fine [09:05] after that I got stuck here [09:05] tried a fresh install on the same server, no problem there [09:06] I see what looks like div#header-top appear twice, but nothing else. [09:06] so you say you delted contents of templates_c/ ? [09:07] In the page source, and the beginning of actually repeat. [09:07] yes, also temp folder and the modules cache [09:07] then nothing below the start of div#tiki-top [09:07] gezza: r u sure the files copied are not corrupt somehow ? [09:07] esp. the tpl files [09:07] well, I can try again [09:08] but I did not see any errors [09:08] hard to see how the normal files would produce that appearance. [09:08] while copying and I used the same set of files for that new install try [09:08] which was fine [09:10] On page refresh, I don't get the double display of div#header-top, only one time. [09:10] still, nothing after that. [09:11] chibaguy: yes, same for me [09:12] if I click registration or reminder, it remains blank [09:13] I agree with luicash, that it seems like some tpl files might be corrupted. [09:13] last line of page source is
[09:14] or broken smarty rendering [09:14] enough memory_limit ? [09:16] it is weird, indeed [09:21] *** kiilo has joined #tikiwiki [09:34] ok, I will purge tempalte and styles folder, refresh with 3.2 files, than clear cache and we'll see :) [09:34] luciash: memory is 60mb [09:35] have to go now, will get back to you, thanks! [09:37] *** Redhatter has joined #tikiwiki [10:22] *** jonnyb has quit IRC () [10:26] *** gezza has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) [10:36] *** sylvieg1 has joined #tikiwiki [10:51] luciash, I wonder if #cboxTitle {background-color: #fff;} belongs in layout.css or design.css. I thought the agreement earlier was color information didn't go in layout.css. [10:53] chibaguy: oops, you're right... but this was more about usability than design... but i can move it. no problem [10:53] i will [10:54] ok :-) [10:54] tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r21881 10/trunk/styles/layout/layout.css: [FIX] 100% width textarea causes it to go beyond right margin of parent in FF. [11:06] chibaguy: is this in general or just under some circumstances ? [11:09] i think it shouldn't happen if the textarea would have a wrapper div (or other block element) with no padding but margin instead ? [11:13] In tiki-view_forum_thread.tpl, the textarea for posting comments is in a td.formcolor. In the case where I saw the problem, the td does have padding .2em. [11:14] All the theme stylesheets I just checked have padding in that td. [11:15] (I suppose is generally good style.) [11:15] i see, it would need a div wrapper inside i guess, then the 100% would be counted for that div [11:15] in theory ;) [11:15] yes, it seems so. [11:32] *** floh1111 has joined #tikiwiki [11:41] *** danopia` has quit IRC (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) [11:41] *** Tikiwiki|bot has quit IRC (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) [11:41] *** Caarrie|sleeping has quit IRC (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) [11:43] *** MartinCleaver has joined #tikiwiki [11:45] *** Tikiwiki|bot has joined #tikiwiki [11:45] *** gezza has joined #tikiwiki [11:46] tikiwiki: 03pkdille * r21882 10/branches/proposed/templates/tiki_full.tpl: [11:46] tikiwiki: [bp/r21880][FIX] tiki_full: give the same css structure when tiki_full template [11:46] tikiwiki: is used (file manager and wiki fullscreen edition textarea. This gives the same [11:46] tikiwiki: fonts in the wiki fullscreen textarea as in "normal" wiki editor screen [11:46] *** ricks99 has joined #tikiwiki [11:57] *** Caarrie|sleeping has joined #tikiwiki [11:57] *** danopia` has joined #tikiwiki [12:06] *** Caarrie|sleeping is now known as Caarrie [12:23] *** Caarrie is now known as Caarrie|away [12:45] *** damian has quit IRC ("Leaving.") [13:05] tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r21884 10/trunk/lib/wiki-plugins/wikiplugin_img.php: notice [13:16] sylvieg1: nevermind, I see jonny touched that [13:21] *** floh1111 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection) [13:23] *** rodrigo_sampaio has joined #tikiwiki [13:35] *** rodrigo_sampaio1 has joined #tikiwiki [13:38] *** rodrigo_sampaio has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) [13:41] *** FrankP_german has joined #tikiwiki [13:46] tikiwiki: 03mangapower * r21885 10/trunk/lib/ (3 files in 3 dirs): [MOD] Fixed categories and workspaces listing. [13:47] *** pchevry has joined #tikiwiki [14:01] tikiwiki: 03lphuberdeau * r21886 10/trim/src/reportlib.php: [FIX] Introduced in last commit [14:18] New Forum Posts: Can't find lite.css or layout.css - http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=14&comments_parentId=34778 [14:24] *** changi has joined #tikiwiki [14:28] New Forum Posts: Why doesn't search work properly - http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=34780 [14:38] tikiwiki: 03chibaguy * r21887 10/mods/trunk/ (138 files in 14 dirs): [NEW] Mittwoch theme updated for Tiki 3. [14:38] *** jonnyb has joined #tikiwiki [14:51] *** floh1111 has joined #tikiwiki [14:53] *** Redhatter has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) [15:18] New Forum Posts: Making tikiwiki the default web site - http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=6&comments_parentId=34782 [15:26] *** MartinCleaver has quit IRC () [15:31] *** marclaporte has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [15:31] *** ricks99 has quit IRC ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com") [15:32] *** mlaporte has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [15:41] *** Frostix has joined #tikiwiki [15:42] chealer: just thought I'd stop by and tell you the upgrade from 3.0 -> 3.2 resolved the issue where the maximum upload file sizes weren't reflecting changes in the php.ini [15:42] chealer: thanks a bunch =) [15:42] *** SEWilco2 has joined #tikiwiki [15:51] New Forum Posts: wiki watches help please - http://tikiwiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=34784 [15:54] *** Wilkins has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection) [15:57] Frostix: I didn't even expect that, great. [15:57] Frostix: thanks for the feedback [15:57] hi jonnyb [15:58] hi chealer [15:59] jonnyb: looks like toolbars broke mod-last_images_th, now merged in Last images. could you check last_images_th on Tiki 3 when on, say, editpage. it has two links to insert Wiki syntax, not anymore in trunk if you try Last images with content=thumbnails [16:00] jonnyb: related to http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/tikiwiki/trunk/templates/modules/mod-last_images_th.tpl?r1=17641&r2=20792&pathrev=21850 [16:00] i tohught image gals were going? [16:00] on trunk or 3? [16:00] (toolbars are on trunk) [16:01] jonnyb: image gals are supposed to go, yes, but it looks like it could take some time, so I was doing the modules quickly and noticed that one seems partly broken. [16:01] jonnyb: check both, I think trunk is (partially) broken [16:02] jonnyb: I was jus suggesting to look at 3 because I didn't know the feature myself. [16:03] jonnyb: I'd also be fine with simple removal of that syntax thing if you think it's not worth fixing [16:03] sorry - no time - never used it - why is a mod doing stuff with quicktags? might be able to look at it next week - emergencies only now [16:05] jonnyb: it used $quicktags to check if we were in edit mode. alright. [16:17] tikiwiki: 03mangapower * r21888 10/trunk/lib/workspaces/wslib.php: [FIX] Solved some minor bugs in wslib.php [16:22] hi chealer - back again, i'll have a look at it... [16:43] chealer: just looking at mod-func-last_images.php - can't see the quicktags/toolbars reference there. Also it doesn't seem to do thumbnails, just the names :( [16:43] *** timotiCK has joined #TIKIWIKI [16:44] *** timotiCK has left [16:58] *** chibaguy has quit IRC ("Find new themes for Tiki at http://themes.tikiwiki.org.") [17:16] *** gezza has quit IRC ("Page closed") [17:22] *** MartinCleaver has joined #tikiwiki [17:31] tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r21889 10/trunk/lib/wiki/xmllib.php: [FIX]XML: more generic parsing on image + rename page.txt with the pagename [17:32] *** kiilo has quit IRC ("Leaving.") [18:15] tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r21890 10/trunk/ (lib/wiki/xmllib.php templates/tiki-export_page_xml.tpl): [FIX]xml export: some CR to have a easy to read wiki.xml [18:17] *** marclaporte has joined #tikiwiki [18:18] *** MartinCleaver has quit IRC () [18:37] *** floh1111 has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection) [18:39] tikiwiki: 03lphuberdeau * r21891 10/trunk/ (17 files in 5 dirs): [MOD] Refactoring some of the logic to clean up the code [18:42] *** FrankP_german has quit IRC ("Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de") [18:42] tikiwiki: 03lphuberdeau * r21892 10/trunk/tiki-objectpermissions.php: [FIX] elseif causing trouble there [18:43] *** luminoso has quit IRC ("Leaving") [18:44] tikiwiki: 03lphuberdeau * r21893 10/trunk/tiki-objectpermissions.php: [FIX] Additional condition required [18:47] tikiwiki: 03jonnybradley * r21894 10/trunk/templates/tiki-wiki_topline.tpl: [FIX] Check for edit section pref too for wiki_plugin_edit_view icon [18:49] *** luminoso has joined #tikiwiki [18:52] *** Caarrie|away is now known as Caarrie [18:58] *** jonnyb has quit IRC () [19:17] tikiwiki: 03lphuberdeau * r21895 10/trunk/db/ (5 files): [FIX] Patch 20090416_plugin_security_tiki was not propagated in tiki.sql [19:39] tikiwiki: 03lphuberdeau * r21896 10/trunk/tiki-listpages.php: [MOD] When the search term and page name are exact matches, and only one result is available, go to result directly [19:43] *** Kimberliee has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [19:43] *** Kimberliee has joined #tikiwiki [20:02] tikiwiki: 03lphuberdeau * r21897 10/trunk/templates/tiki-edit_translation.tpl: [ENH] Before redirecting to edit page for new page creation, verify if the page name is in the list of available pages [20:25] *** marclaporte has quit IRC (Read error: 148 (No route to host)) [20:58] *** Caarrie is now known as Caarrie|away [20:59] *** Frostix has quit IRC (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it") [21:06] *** kiilo has joined #tikiwiki [21:07] *** rodrigo_sampaio1 has quit IRC ("Leaving.") [21:11] tikiwiki: 03zab-sv * r21898 10/branches/3.0/lang/sv/language.php: [21:33] *** philback|busy has joined #tikiwiki [21:33] *** philback|busy is now known as philback [21:45] *** philback has quit IRC ("Easy as 3.14159265358979323846...") [21:57] *** marclaporte has joined #tikiwiki [22:08] tikiwiki: 03sylvieg * r21899 10/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): [22:08] tikiwiki: [MOD]tracker: new option user can take ownership for tracker with user field [22:08] tikiwiki: creator and where anonymous can create items and where only creator can modify [22:08] tikiwiki: their items: This allows a user to take ownership of an item create by anonymous [22:08] tikiwiki: and after to be the only one to be able to modify the item [22:09] *** luminoso has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [22:10] *** luminoso has joined #tikiwiki [22:18] *** kiilo has quit IRC ("Leaving.") [22:37] *** SEWilco2 has quit IRC ("Leaving.") [22:57] *** mlaporte has joined #tikiwiki [23:12] *** marclaporte has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [23:29] *** liquidape has joined #tikiwiki [23:30] hey all - I'm having some trouble with an upgrade, anybody care to help? [23:31] I'm upgrading from 2.1 -> 3.2. I've done the upgrade from 2.1 to 2.4 first, and it seems okay, but as soon as I upgrade from 2.4 -> 3.2 it breaks all of my file galleries. [23:31] Do I need to do a 3.0 upgrade first? [23:33] *** Caarrie|away is now known as Caarrie [23:38] no [23:38] you can even upgrade from 1.9.x to 3.2 directly [23:38] (incredibly) [23:39] *** SEWilco2 has joined #tikiwiki [23:39] liquidape: can you describe the problem with file galleries? [23:41] sec, playing with it now. My file gals are so huge that it takes forever for them to load [23:42] it appears that the link to the filegals is broken...though I'm timing out on login now so I can't even check it [23:44] restarting server - maybe that will help [23:44] *** marclaporte has joined #tikiwiki [23:45] Wasn't there a bug a while ago where many subgals in filegals took a lot of time to process? [23:45] so, you say you can go from 2.1 -> 3.2 in one leap. Do you just click the "automatically upgrade" button? It appears there are no choices for which to choose upgrade paths. [23:45] I think it involved subgals with many subgals. [23:46] sewilco2: That would be very nice to have fixed, actually, I heard about that bug and it is my main reason for upgrading [23:46] my setup runs projects each of which have subgals with more subgals within them [23:47] yes, automatic upgrade [23:47] after you make a backup of course [23:48] ok [23:48] I click the filegals link and get broken page instantly [23:48] it's going to: /tikiwiki-3.2/tiki-file_galleries.php [23:49] try: tiki-list_file_gallery.php [23:49] my guess is that upgrade script doesn't do a good job on menus [23:53] curious, is the filegallery structure now written to the database? [23:53] instead of recursivly figuring it out ever time you transverse folders? [23:53] I don't understand [23:53] everything is in the DB [23:54] expect the actual binairies if you set it that way [23:55] I think before it was transversing the entire database looking for parents/children folders, instead of storing the whole folder tree to the database - not super sure though [23:55] I'm just curious if the filegals got way sped up [23:59] no idea [23:59] in the old ways, file galleries had no sub-folders