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[01:11] marclaporte Telesight: should be, if 18n.tiki.org is up to date
[01:12] marclaporte Lauwenmark: well some things can be fixed fast. If it's a surgical change, you can modify your instance, and the real change can be in 12.0 and 11.1
[01:16] Lauwenmark marclaporte: I found the single line to change so the 11 can work :)
[01:20] Lauwenmark marclaporte: in absolute_urls.php, the variable $url_host is the one I needed to redefine.
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[03:02] fabricius Lauwenmark: re ... nice to hear, you found a solution ... would you mind, to document that on do.tiki.org? :-)
[03:02] fabricius sry doc.tiki.org
[03:03] Lauwenmark fabricius: Sure, but I'd suggest making this an optionally settable variable from one of the administrative panels.
[03:03] Lauwenmark (there are several cases where autodetection is not desirable and better being user-defined instead)
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[05:06] Tiki-KGB 03nkoth r47339 03trunk/lib/core/Math/Formula/Function/Random.php * [NEW] Random function for rating language
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[06:26] Tiki-KGB [FIX] Followers need to be array_merge as is numeric keys to avoid disappearing items
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[08:21] rug hello, anyone experienced to help me configure my tiki wiki?
[08:30] fabricius experienced might be some of us :-)
[08:31] fabricius hi rug
[08:31] fabricius what's the problem?
[08:41] rug ok i am new to the tiki
[08:41] rug I want to create menus
[08:44] rug I have created menus, assigned to a module, but can't display
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[08:49] rug hello
[08:49] rug anyone to help?
[08:51] fabricius sure rug
[08:51] fabricius lets start easy
[08:51] rug ok thx
[08:51] fabricius you want to display a menu on your Tiki website
[08:52] rug yes
[08:52] fabricius you created a menu
[08:52] fabricius Id=?
[08:52] rug yup
[08:52] fabricius 43?
[08:52] rug yes
[08:53] rug its 46
[08:53] fabricius ok, so it is the first menu you create in this brandnew Tiki instance (cause the first menu is the main application menu Id=42 .. active by default)
[08:53] fabricius ah so you have setup a few before
[08:54] rug yes
[08:54] fabricius 43, 44, 45 and now 46
[08:54] rug but all dont appear
[08:54] fabricius ah ok
[08:54] fabricius sure, when you create a menu, it never appears - ist just exists
[08:54] rug sure
[08:55] fabricius which is logical and good so, after you understood a few basics about Tiki
[08:55] rug ok, this means there is a syntax i am missing
[08:55] fabricius mainly .. you can use the same menu multiple times
[08:55] fabricius so you need to deside, where the menu Id=46 should appear
[08:56] rug so in tiki, the about,home,..... how are they called and how to setthem up?
[08:56] fabricius about, home? what you mean?
[08:56] fabricius you mean a standart navigation menu?
[08:56] rug i mean the  ordinary so called menus
[08:57] rug sure
[08:57] rug yes
[08:58] fabricius lets keep it simple - Tiki does not mind, for which purpose you use a menu - on a wikipage, as main navigation horizontal or vertical or as secondary menu or in a footer
[08:58] fabricius where you want to display the menu Id=46?
[08:58] rug Basically, I want to create different menus for multiple departments of my company. There will be authentication requirement to each member to access his/her dptment data.
[08:59] fabricius a) which module zone (footer, header, left or right column, ...)?
[08:59] fabricius b) horizontal or vertical menu?
[08:59] rug i'd like horizontal
[08:59] fabricius ok
[08:59] fabricius I guess you want the "top bar" zone between the header and the columns
[09:00] rug exactly
[09:00] fabricius that is the typical zone for horizontal main navigation
[09:00] fabricius cool
[09:00] fabricius did you do a lot of trial error configuration yet in this instance, or is it mainly like freh installed?
[09:01] fabricius fresh
[09:02] rug 46	NOC  NOC Department	d	0 	Edit  Configure/Options  Delete  Clone this menu and its options 43	IT Department  d	1 	Edit  Configure/Options  Delete  Clone this menu and its options 44	IDC  IDC Department	d	0 	Edit  Configure/Options  Delete  Clone this menu and its options 45	FOC  FOC DPtment	d	0 	Edit  Configure/Options  Delete  Clone this menu and its options 42	 Application menu  Main extensive navigation menu	d	192 	 RESET   Clone
[09:02] fabricius normally the module zones (see: tiki-admin.php?page=look) are set to be "only visible if module" .. which is fine for us
[09:02] fabricius We do not need the list for now
[09:02] rug I created just as a brief of what I did
[09:02] fabricius you need to go there: /tiki-admin_modules.php
[09:03] rug i created modules also
[09:03] fabricius ok
[09:03] fabricius no custom modules?
[09:03] fabricius you do not need custom modules for navigation menus
[09:03] fabricius only for very advanced setups
[09:03] rug it is a custom module
[09:04] fabricius arrgl
[09:04] fabricius no problem
[09:04] rug ok can i delete that custom module?
[09:04] fabricius so you did setup a custom module and wonder, why it does not appear?
[09:04] fabricius just leave it like it is ... you might use it later or change it later .. just ignore it for now
[09:05] rug or, can I delete everything I did and start from scratch in order to ease your help?
[09:05] fabricius to display a module you need to apply it to a module zone
[09:05] fabricius no ... nothing necessary to ease my help
[09:06] fabricius maybe a minute to get another coffee and have a fag on the balcony :-)
[09:06] fabricius so are you in tiki-admin_modules?
[09:06] rug yes i am
[09:06] fabricius three tabs, you see it?
[09:06] fabricius use the left tab - click on it
[09:07] fabricius then find a button to apply a new module
[09:07] rug i can see 4
[09:08] rug add new module?
[09:08] fabricius yes!
[09:08] rug ok
[09:08] fabricius click on the button
[09:08] rug yup
[09:09] fabricius you find a drop down and there you can chosse aswell all preset modules as your custom modules
[09:09] rug module name, there is a dropdown to choose from
[09:09] fabricius we use a preset module
[09:09] fabricius the module "menu" obviously
[09:10] fabricius preset modules have advantages above custom modules, as you have preset parameters and fields to type in your values
[09:10] fabricius for custom modules you have to find out your self and type in manually
[09:10] fabricius so we use the preset one
[09:11] fabricius the viewport must change and you have a four-tab dialogue for configuring the module
[09:11] fabricius tell me when you are there or if you do not find it
[09:11] rug ok
[09:11] fabricius ah good
[09:11] fabricius main necessary settings now:
[09:11] fabricius 1st tab:
[09:12] fabricius drop down "topbar" instead of "top" (top=header)
[09:12] fabricius 2nd tab:
[09:12] fabricius menu Id = 46
[09:12] rug ok
[09:13] rug there is nowhere i can put the id
[09:14] rug only position,order,cache time and groups
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[09:14] fabricius that is tab 1
[09:15] rug sure
[09:15] fabricius position: topbar
[09:15] rug yup
[09:15] fabricius rest is ok
[09:15] rug yup
[09:15] fabricius groups obviously refers to the group which can see the module
[09:16] fabricius tab 2
[09:16] fabricius now
[09:16] rug ok
[09:17] fabricius menu Id - you see the field
[09:17] fabricius structure Id stays empty ... this is for "magic menus" for later on (adfvanced use with wiki structures)
[09:17] fabricius -f
[09:18] fabricius type = vert is default anyway, but you can set the value if you want
[09:18] rug ok I can see Menu not Menu Id
[09:19] fabricius ok, use that .... things evolve over times
[09:19] fabricius the rest you keep empty
[09:20] fabricius but for your interest: here you could define css selectors for the menu (#id for the #dom, ... etc.
[09:20] rug ok,
[09:20] fabricius you need the 3rd tab now
[09:21] fabricius here you configure the way how the module is displayed
[09:21] fabricius and optionally aplly a css selector to the menu
[09:21] fabricius nesessary for a typical topbar main navigation: nobox=y
[09:21] rug so, I have to find a menu Id i created and fill it. right?
[09:21] fabricius you do not want a module title and decoration on top of the menu
[09:22] fabricius that was already in the previous (2nd) tab ... just use the Id 46
[09:22] rug ok
[09:23] fabricius then in 3dr tab prameter=nobox / value=y
[09:23] fabricius 3rd I mean
[09:23] rug yup
[09:23] fabricius everything else keep empty (meaning default)
[09:23] fabricius 4th tab now
[09:24] fabricius no setting at this moment, but look at it to know it
[09:24] fabricius here in the 4th tab you can configure, in which context the module should be visible
[09:25] fabricius like depending on a perspective or a category or only when a certain page(s) is active or a theme or a feature (section like blog, forum, etc.)
[09:25] fabricius for your usecase we could consider to use perspectives, but that is too advanced for the first day ... we look at this another day ;-)
[09:26] rug ok
[09:26] fabricius so you can save the module and it should appear
[09:26] fabricius ls confirm
[09:26] fabricius pl confirm
[09:26] rug ok
[09:26] fabricius arrgl -> pls <-
[09:27] rug ok
[09:27] fabricius ok means "visible"?
[09:28] rug sorry Im going out for 10 mins
[09:28] fabricius so I get a fag :-)
[09:28] * fabricius smoking
[09:56] rug I am back
[09:57] rug sorry for it
[10:00] rug Are u still there Sir?
[10:14] rug Hello fabricius
[10:31] fabricius ah rehi
[10:32] fabricius just did some work ... yes still here and you?
[10:32] rug yes i am
[10:32] fabricius ok
[10:32] rug i see
[10:32] fabricius you have so far 4 menus for 4 workgroups, if I see it right!?
[10:34] rug right
[10:36] fabricius do you have any experience in user-permission management aka role-permission model?
[10:38] rug yes I have
[10:40] fabricius cool
[10:40] fabricius for workgroups the perspectives feature can be interesting, but we leave that for later - as said
[10:41] fabricius each menu need to be visible for a certain workgroup
[10:41] fabricius I imagine, that there might be people which are member in more than one group
[10:42] fabricius so Tiki must know, when to display which menu (module)
[10:42] rug sure
[10:42] fabricius and prevent to display four horizontal menus at the same time, if one user is member of all foru workgroups
[10:43] fabricius so you need to setup an identifier for the Tiki objects (wikipages, articles, forums, etc.) to allocate them to a workgroup
[10:44] fabricius an an identifier to allocate the users to a workgroup (or several)
[10:44] fabricius you can imagine, that the identifier for users are the ... groups
[10:45] fabricius and for the objects they are the ... categories
[10:45] fabricius in Tiki you can use categories for different purposes
[10:46] fabricius mainly identifying and group objects and secondly to apply permissions for groups of users in groups of objects (categories)
[10:47] fabricius I recommend to mainly use category permissions and to avoid general permissions and object permissions (use them only in really necessary situations)
[10:47] fabricius you can create several trees of categories
[10:48] fabricius use one tree for permissions only and another for navigation only .... you must find out a good way of organising this for your project
[10:49] fabricius as you have experience with this, you know, that this is one of the main time eating tasks
[10:49] rug that's ok
[10:49] fabricius for your question now, we just need 4 categories and four sample wikipages
[10:50] fabricius the sample wikipages might represent "landingpages" for the workgroups
[10:50] fabricius the 4 categories represent the identifier for the workgroup related content
[10:51] fabricius as the admin can see everything, you can setup the 4 usergroups lateron
[10:51] rug ok
[10:51] fabricius step 1: create categories
[10:53] fabricius ahh step 0: activate the categories feature in /tiki-admin.php?page=features
[10:53] fabricius then step 1 ;-)
[10:54] rug yeah
[10:54] fabricius /tiki-admin_categories.php
[10:54] rug the cat link was missing
[10:54] fabricius yeah - it is missing, when inactive
[10:54] * fabricius is back in a minute
[10:54] rug ok
[10:58] fabricius rehi
[10:58] fabricius did you setup the 4 catgories or you need help with it?
[11:00] rug oh! Im very sorry i am unable to continue. there is an urgent case i need to solve
[11:00] rug thank you and i wish i cud meet you here for further help
[11:01] fabricius so either come back another day or write to the devlist or the forum or write me an IM in the community page tiki.org - you might register there
[11:01] fabricius my username there is "Torsten"
[11:02] fabricius community website I mean
[11:02] fabricius https://tiki.org/Community
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[11:46] mlaporte laurei: did you figure out how to embed Tiki content yet?
[11:46] laurei hi mlaporte still no, i had a play with views but couldn't really understand
[11:46] mlaporte laurei: You could use the print mode or the raw mode
[11:47] laurei raw sounds nice
[11:47] laurei what's that?
[11:48] laurei mlaporte
[11:50] mlaporte https://themes.tiki.org/tiki-index.php?page=Template%20Tricks&pagenum=3#show_the_content_without_columns
[11:50] mlaporte That page has a lot of goodies
[11:54] mlaporte There is also a raw mode which doesn't interpret wiki syntax but that won't help you
[11:56] mlaporte So for any wiki page, you should be able to get the page without top/left/right/bottom modules
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[11:57] mlaporte Things to check: if you click a link in the page, does it maintain the look? (without modules)
[11:58] mlaporte laurei: I am supposing here there is no concern with login / perms?
[11:58] mlaporte It's sort of like an iframe?
[11:58] laurei mlaporte I am using pretty intense role based access control
[11:59] laurei iframe would be fine
[11:59] mlaporte So how do you share auth between systems?
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[12:02] mlaporte Telesight: are you OK for translations or still blocked?
[12:04] laurei mlaporte ldap, if the user needs to sign in in a few different places it's ok as long as the passwords are synced
[12:04] mlaporte laurei: so from other system, you embed Tiki pages (without borders) but if page is protected, it should be a login box?
[12:04] laurei that would be fine mlaporte until i figure out session sharing, etc
[12:05] mlaporte laurei: ok, and there is a way to sync groups too
[12:05] laurei tikiwiki has nice ldap group syncing mlaporte, i just create a permissions group for every ldap group
[12:06] mlaporte session sharing could be done with CAS (which is configurable within Tiki, but you need to set up CAS Server)
[12:07] laurei mlaporte: is cas just a session thing or is it a complete replacement for ldap plugin
[12:07] mlaporte not replacement, but to manage sessions
[12:07] laurei mlaporte so i can manage sessions based on the ldap users, that would be ideal
[12:08] mlaporte Do you have a lot of users?
[12:09] laurei mlaporte around 50
[12:10] laurei but even if it was 3, that user experience is worth weeks of messing around :)
[12:15] mlaporte hehe
[12:15] laurei i see your name around alot mlaporte what do you do @tiki
[12:19] mlaporte http://doc.tiki.org/tiki-index_p.php?page=Tiki12 makes a nice page, but links in them go to normal pages, so you could try with Short URLs off   (Maybe Short URLs is conflicting with keeping the tiki-index_p...)
[12:21] mlaporte I discovered Tiki in 2002 while building online communities and found it really awesome and I thought "If only it could also do XYZ as well"
[12:22] mlaporte 11 years later, I am still thinking that :-)
[12:23] laurei I had a look at the codebase once, it scared me to see so many files
[12:23] laurei but i can't find anything that is as flexible
[12:25] mlaporte I think we now have the best development model in the World (well, for a vastly-featured web app)
[12:25] mlaporte I have analyzed many and got inspiration from them
[12:27] laurei mlaporte: I'd love to see a nice template built on bootstrap.js if i can get my snippets working i might do that next
[12:27] mlaporte Codebase is huge, somewhat messy and has 3 different generations of code in it, including some PHP4 stuff
[12:28] mlaporte Bootstrap is going to be awesome!  And a good example of how Tiki has best development model
[12:29] mlaporte With any other web app, they have to sacrifice tons of extensions when they make a (necessary or desirable) enhancement to the infrastructure
[12:31] mlaporte In Tiki, because we a have a unified code base and data structure, we can make it all evolve without sacrificing part of the commmunity
[12:32] laurei "...and how much would you expect to pay for all this.." :)
[12:34] mlaporte And with Long Term Support (LTS) versions, site admins can upgrade at their own pace. There is a proposal currently on the table to extend support period to 5 years (instead of 3.5 years now, and 2 years we had for the 1st LTS version) starting with Tiki12
[12:35] laurei mlaporte: I guess it would depend on the figures of people sticking with old versions, i personally upgrade whenever i can
[12:36] mlaporte There is a split in the community, which can even lead to tensions because of these conflicting objectives
[12:37] mlaporte Most of the site admins prefer LTS and don't want to upgrade. Tiki does all they need, which is why the picked it.
[12:38] mlaporte But most of the people committing code is to get enhancements and the new versions
[12:40] mlaporte laurei: you said you can't find anything as flexible. What did you compare it to?
[12:43] laurei mlaporte I spent a few hours on wikimatrix, all of them, I really need RBAC, and SVG, i think i chose twiki and tikiwiki
[12:44] laurei perl ain't my thing
[12:44] mlaporte Ah, how those two names are close :-)
[12:45] mlaporte How "iki" makes all the difference :-)
[12:45] mlaporte There is also an ikiwiki (!)
[12:46] laurei haha, i would have chosen twiki because they claim fortune 500 companies bla bla, i think i even installed it but I wasn't going to be able to code anything for it
[12:47] mlaporte http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikiwiki
[12:48] mlaporte hmmmm, do you think we should add some fortune 500 companies on info.tiki.org ?
[12:48] laurei yes mlaporte it would make me more comfortable lol
[12:48] fabricius hehe - which of them use Toki?
[12:48] fabricius errr Tiki
[12:48] fabricius sry
[12:48] laurei theres a toki?
[12:48] laurei oh
[12:48] mlaporte hahahah
[12:48] laurei sounds japanese tokiwoki
[12:48] fabricius oh noooo - there is a typo
[12:49] fabricius hehe
[12:49] laurei does tikiwiki use a vcs for storage, i like the idea of that
[12:50] fabricius vice city story?
[12:51] fabricius hhe version control system
[12:51] fabricius version control in sence of history?
[12:51] fabricius yes for wikipages, yes for sheets
[12:51] laurei in the sense of using git or svn
[12:52] laurei its not a big deal i don't know how i'd use it like that, but i do like using standards
[12:52] fabricius version control in sence of new version of files and archive old versions?
[12:52] fabricius yes for file galleries
[12:52] fabricius version control system in sence of downloadable source code (development)?
[12:53] fabricius yes for Tiki source code => sourceforge => svn
[12:53] fabricius I run myprojects via svn
[12:53] laurei i mean the documents themselves
[12:54] fabricius minor upgeades: shell ... svn up ... tiki-installer + upgrade database ... mostly finished in a few minutes
[12:54] fabricius so files
[12:54] fabricius file gallery
[12:55] fabricius you upload a file into the file gallery -> either in the database, or in a folder in the document root of Tiki or strongly recommended outside the document root of Tiki
[12:55] fabricius then you can upload a new version of the file, if necessary and still have the old version archived
[12:55] fabricius or several old versions
[12:56] fabricius but this is not via git or svn ... its Tiki internal
[12:57] mlaporte When I started out, TWiki was, by far, the best wiki out there. It's the first Enterprise wiki. I considered very seriously using that. However, I felt that 1- PHP was better suited for this and more accessible  2- Storing in a DB was much much better than storing in the file system  3- Tiki's other features (blog, forums, etc.) were needed for community management and if they were not bundled, I would waste a lot of time picking stuff, ma
[12:59] laurei have any of you guys used sharepoint or whatever they are calling it, how do they compare
[12:59] fabricius by the way: storage in the database and storage in directory documentroot/files is only to make it working from default installation
[12:59] fabricius it is strongly recommended to create a directory outside the document root of Tiki and use a path like this: ../files/gallery instead of /files, which would be inside the document root
[12:59] fabricius I never used sharepoint, but I think I have to look at it, as Tiki might become a competitor after getting some missing stuff wrapped up
[13:02] fabricius mlaporte: are you still thinking, that storing in the db would be batter than storing in the file system? ... I have bad experience with database, cause database grows extremely with file storage (just one point)
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[13:03] fabricius long ago I did read about the recommended directory storage (outside root) and since I only do that from conviction
[13:05] fabricius ... I do that only ... err ... I do only store in the file system cause I am convinced .... shame, English still is a foreign language for me
[13:05] mlaporte fabricius: what laurei means is to be able to edit a wiki page via Git or SVN like http://www.wikimatrix.org/show/Git-Wiki
[13:05] fabricius ah - he referred to documents ... I have a look
[13:07] fabricius humm would we need that? I mean we have "history" for the pages and we can compare versions and everything
[13:07] laurei I have no idea fabricius it just "sounds" good :)
[13:08] laurei i guess using standards is always good
[13:09] mlaporte Torsten: file system for binary files is OK. But in TWiki and DokuWiki, all the data (pages, users, page metadata, etc.) are stored as text files. For this, I much prefer a real database
[13:09] laurei but i can't think of a use case except for backing up because you still have permissions, git doesn't handle that well
[13:10] fabricius mlaporte: I agree
[13:11] fabricius I do not think, that we would need to be able to edit wiki pages via git or svn
[13:12] fabricius why involve a third party, if we have a very stable core feture for it integrated deeply in our software?
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[13:12] fabricius feature
[13:12] fabricius hate these typos, but cannot really avoid them
[13:13] fabricius hi ricks99
[13:13] ricks99 polom fabricius
[13:13] fabricius moloq
[13:15] laurei actually fabricius mlaporte I just remembered why it would be good, you just don't worry about how you store the data, just simply put in the creds and transfer the data to the git system which stores it
[13:16] ricks99 :-)
[13:17] fabricius hmm ... I do not worry about how to store the data anyway ...
[13:17] fabricius I 'click edit or create' - 'edit' - 'save'
[13:17] fabricius stored in the database including history and permissions and all
[13:17] fabricius why worrying?
[13:18] fabricius I mean, if you start coding a wiki from scratch, you could use git-wiki for versioning alright
[13:19] fabricius I do not see the point for Tiki, even the idea of git-wiki might be quite cool in itself ... a nice use for git
[13:20] mlaporte https://dev.tiki.org/File+Gallery+Revamp is coming so any features you see in SharePoint or Alfresco, just add
[13:27] mlaporte http://www.fossil-scm.org/ is an intriguing distributed SCM.  I could envisage using this with Tiki for synching of profiles and perhaps to make Tiki distributed
[13:29] laurei whats the difference between fossil and git
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[15:45] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: PHP Storm - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=48924
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[19:20] xavi polom
[19:21] xavi who is in charge of the domains *.tiki.org? only marc? maybe changi ?
[19:21] xavi Jyhem , any clue, since you were involved in the show.t.o recent domain, I guess?
[19:27] xavi bbl
[19:54] Jyhem xavi: Marc is, but probably not only Marc.
[19:54] Jyhem Maybe even me, but I'm in a huge emergency
[19:55] Jyhem Gotta get spiral back up
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[20:05] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: Admin role for translation + "Status" - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=48930
[20:12] xavi ok, Jyhem, no worries, thanks for the info.
[20:12] xavi good luck with spiral!
[20:12] xavi time to leave for me. cheers
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[20:35] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: Bad layering for edit page Help window - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=48931
[21:05] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: jQuery.sheet 3.1 RC3 - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=48933
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[23:29] Tiki|bot Recent Bug:  - Permissions for perspectives are not working  - http://dev.tiki.org/item4720