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[02:14] aalex How to apply a custom CSS class on the items in a menu?
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[04:47] aalex oh well, edit a template file !
[04:47] aalex :(
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[09:18] Justeco Hi! I didn´t find a theme with a good-looking forum yet. Can you recommend me one?
[09:34] Tiki-KGB 03chibaguy r52562 10trunk/ 10(94 files in 61 dirs)
[09:34] Tiki-KGB [ENH] Replace Glyphicons with Font Awesome. Work in progress. (Eventually icon sets will be selectable; this is an interim change.)
[09:34] chibaguy Justeco, what version of Tiki are you using?
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[09:36] Justeco 13.0
[09:41] chibaguy Well, I think the forums all use about the same HTML and pretty similar styling because they are mostly based on Bootstrap elements now, so far.
[09:41] chibaguy What do you have in mind by "good looking"? Any examples on the web?
[09:44] Justeco Here is a good example: http://forum.astor.ws/
[09:47] chibaguy I see. Pretty nice.
[09:50] chibaguy Yeah, currently Tiki's forums look pretty bland because we just integrated Bootstrap and so the forums are kind of default Bootstrap elements.
[09:51] chibaguy And Bootstrap default seems kind of vanilla modern. Your example is a little bit retro or classic forum, you might say, with more use of background colors, etc.
[09:52] chibaguy I think once we get through the Bootstrap basics, there'll be more expanding beyond it, visually.
[09:53] chibaguy So far we've focussed on the overall page, with not too much work on specific feature appearance.
[09:57] chibaguy okeedokee
[09:58] chibaguy fabricius, are you around?
[10:00] chibaguy I need to find a place in trunk for the former layout.css (now tiki.css) etc and other files that themes use. It needs to be in tikiroot/themes or tikiroot/css. Which is best?
[10:02] chibaguy I'm thinking maybe tikiroot/themes/general/ or /global or /shared or /common etc.
[10:03] fabricius chibaguy, yes, just arrived
[10:04] chibaguy There needs to be a directory for files shared by all themes, the tiki/less files, etc.
[10:04] fabricius sorry, that I did not make it yesterday - I did not have my laptop with me and came home only more than 3 hours after  the start of the webinar
[10:04] fabricius ok
[10:04] fabricius *thinking*
[10:05] chibaguy Is it important for tikiroot/themes to contain only theme directories as direct children?
[10:05] chibaguy Or can there be a "shared_files" directory in there?
[10:05] fabricius what you mean as "direct children?"
[10:06] chibaguy If it disturbs the purity, it could go in tikiroot/css instead.
[10:06] fabricius ah
[10:06] chibaguy I mean like themes/fivealive, themes/jqui, etc.
[10:06] chibaguy This folder would be themes/shared_files or something.
[10:07] chibaguy Would that be a problem? I wouldn't think so.
[10:08] fabricius actually, I can tell you my opinion and support a consensus, but the idea of purity comes from LPH ... and he said, that therer would be no tiki shared css loaded before loading themes/mythemes/tiki.css
[10:09] fabricius as far as I understand it is his idea to reduce the number of loaded files massively - actually ideally to one
[10:09] chibaguy No, these files aren't to be loaded; they're the less files that are used to create the theme css files.
[10:09] fabricius ahhh
[10:09] fabricius I understand
[10:10] chibaguy They just need to be somewhere, and not in styles anymore.
[10:10] fabricius by the way: that is a task for me for the next week ... I need to understand the less thingi in a way to be able to use and to explain .. my rough idea is not enough anymore
[10:10] fabricius but for this it might be enough
[10:11] fabricius I think, it might make sense to have them in a folder in themes with a readme file
[10:11] fabricius you do not want to have them in every theme I guess?
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[10:12] Jesse___ hello
[10:13] fabricius chibaguy: maybe themes/shared_files would not the perfect name, but the right idea of a place
[10:13] fabricius chibaguy: imagine, you are a new theme designer, capable of less or willing to learn
[10:13] Jesse___ I have a question how do I change the picture that shows up on the website when you login on the tab by the name
[10:13] fabricius and you want to create a theme
[10:13] Tiki|bot Welcome to the official Tiki Wiki CMS Groupware channel. Please ask your question directly. Don't ask to ask. Someone will reply if and when they know the answer. Welcome again and please stay a while. Thank you!
[10:13] Tiki|bot Welcome to the official Tiki Wiki CMS Groupware channel. Please ask your question directly. Don't ask to ask. Someone will reply if and when they know the answer. Welcome again and please stay a while. Thank you!
[10:14] fabricius where you would look for the files you need to create the themes?
[10:14] chibaguy on the phone - just a minute please
[10:14] fabricius answering thi question might give us half of the answer of your previous question
[10:14] fabricius ok
[10:15] fabricius Hi Jesse___
[10:15] Jesse___ hi fabricius
[10:15] fabricius I do not understand this Jesse___: when you login on the tab by the name
[10:16] Jesse___ I have a picture of Tiki on the tab of my website when i load it in the browser
[10:16] chibaguy ok, back.
[10:16] fabricius what is the tab of your website Jesse___ ?
[10:17] fabricius sorry, I am German, it might be a language problem
[10:17] fabricius oh left
[10:17] chibaguy fabricius, if I were a guy wanting to make a tiki theme, I'd look for docs and look at existing themes.
[10:18] fabricius chibaguy: hehehe OBVIOUSLY a good idea :-D
[10:18] * fabricius laughing
[10:18] fabricius so that is right
[10:18] chibaguy I guess also having all the theme related files fairly close in the file tree is good, too, so probably not so good to use tikiroot/css. Actually I would like to merge the files in css into the shared theme files.
[10:18] chibaguy and get rid of tikiroot/css
[10:19] fabricius but honestly, don't we want a logical, easy to understand and to maintain structure?
[10:19] chibaguy I wonder if Jesse___ meant the avatar image.
[10:19] chibaguy Sure
[10:20] chibaguy Maybe themes/base_files ?
[10:20] fabricius so I tend to support your idea of themes/shared_files, whilst I am unsure about the naming ... ah base_files maybe bette ... continue thinking pls ;-)
[10:22] chibaguy I'll use that as a working title for now. It can be changed easily enough.
[10:22] fabricius base files means, that there are files (less for css creatin mainly) that affect tiki over all and that have to be used for all themes independantly from the themes itself?
[10:23] fabricius like for Tiki specific selectors or css for integrated stuff from othe projects?
[10:24] chibaguy No, these files have the function that layout.css and design.css had previously; they give CSS for Tiki things that bootstrap isn't aware of.
[10:25] fabricius yeah, I did not express that in the right words
[10:25] chibaguy I suggest having a look at the files in styles/layout
[10:26] fabricius sure - Tiki things, that bootstrap isn't aware of - meant  exactly this
[10:27] fabricius so themes/base_files ... sound like giving the right impression
[10:28] fabricius I think, LPH did put that into themes/mytheme/less
[10:28] fabricius but the base files seem to make sense aswell
[10:29] fabricius chibaguy: tell me something for better understanding
[10:31] fabricius when you want to create a css from less, are you then kind of collecting different less files together with different files alike "his less, that less and another less" and then convert them into one single css file?
[10:32] fabricius it looks to me about this way, when I see te difference of old and new css paths etc.
[10:33] fabricius heh I might need to try to better express what I mean - checking dictionalry
[10:33] chibaguy Yes, there is a main less file that has import statements; when compiled, all of the files are merged into one .css file.
[10:34] fabricius ah that was what I was expecting
[10:35] fabricius so you can process   less files from different paths
[10:37] fabricius so for example getting a free raw bootstrap theme - wrapping it together into kind of a themes-structure template and process the less including the themes/base_files/less
[10:37] fabricius ready
[10:39] fabricius and as the themes structure is basically the same as bootstrap, there should not be so much of a problem to integrate a rwa bootstrap theme into Tiki
[10:39] chibaguy So the theme stylesheet is now supposed to have a path like themes/jqui/css/tiki.css , for example?
[10:39] fabricius exactly
[10:39] chibaguy ok, setting up the compiler to put it in the right place.
[10:40] fabricius chibaguy: I am still thinking about the options
[10:41] fabricius chibaguy: I am 100% on your side that we want to keep them
[10:41] fabricius but the same time, I think they might have to work a bit differently
[10:41] chibaguy Well, there are some things that Tiki has that Bootstrap themes don't know about, an outside theme either needs to be created with Less so that it can compile Tiki's "native" less files, or more than one CSS file is needed - the external one plus a tiki one to cover the non-bootstrap rules.
[10:42] chibaguy Now our Bootswatch themes are almost all compiled by us again from less files, so they can include some overrides.
[10:42] chibaguy A few of the Bootswatch themes were only offerred as CSS files, I believe.
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[10:44] fabricius humm - the question if eventually there will be only one single css file loaded or maybe two, would have to be discussed with Louis-Philippe and others, but not with me ...
[10:44] chibaguy To tell you the truth, the options like fivealive's were a lot of trouble to make because there are two parent themes to avoide problems with. In general I'm not sure if making a theme option makes sense any more, when you can easily accomplish the same thing by just editing some variables in the parent theme's less file.
[10:45] chibaguy I kind of like theme options because of the "packaging" of them in a subdirectory. It's neater than just adding more names to a long list of themes in the dropdown.
[10:45] fabricius chibaguy: indeed - I see a theme option more for the following:
[10:46] chibaguy I like how the relationship is evident.
[10:46] chibaguy But from a css-making standpoint, it's probably obsolete now.
[10:46] fabricius having an alternative css file in the same themes/ folder, using the same themes/mytheme/images etc.
[10:47] fabricius but to create an option we now could just change variables in less and process, getting a "replacement" of the full tiki.css
[10:48] fabricius I like theme options for example for accessibility funcionality
[10:50] chibaguy for people who don't want to or don't know how to use Less, the .css option files are a good solution still.
[10:50] fabricius why not something tike themes/mytheme/options/optionname.css to be loaded instead of the main theme css?
[10:51] fabricius right now it is the way, that we load styles/mytheme.css and on top of it (to overwrite) styles/mytheme/options/option.css
[10:54] chibaguy Hmm, if it's going to replace the theme, why not put it in its own directory?
[10:54] fabricius the idea I am talking about is:
[10:54] fabricius we load themes/mytheme/css/tiki.css
[10:54] fabricius and if we chose an option, one of the following alternatives (NOT loading tiki.css
[10:54] fabricius themes/mytheme/css/option.css
[10:54] fabricius or
[10:54] fabricius themes/mythemes/options/option.css
[10:56] fabricius chibaguy: because it should use the same font, images (or most of them), js, etc and should not cause an extra workload for managing several nearly identical folders themes/mythemeoptionone/blabla themes/mythemeoptiontwo/blabla
[10:56] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: Tracker field category no initial value	(crossposting) - http://suite.tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=53499
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[10:57] fabricius it is, when everything is nearly exactly the same, but only the tiki.css has slight differences
[10:58] fabricius as far as I understand, the problem is not the idea of options as the user experiences it, but the row of Äşoading and overwritng one css after anothe
[10:58] fabricius right?
[10:59] chibaguy Hmm, does this new directory structure (with font, image, etc. directories) have a lot of overhead that now you're looking for ways to work around? ;-)
[11:04] fabricius chibaguy: maybe not, if I create it by myself ... that would be quite easy and I could just name the themes /themes/theme themes/highcontrast etc. ... for a custom theme for my self abolutely no problem indeed
[11:05] chibaguy Yes, I think there's probably a way to let the theme option share the theme's directories pretty smoothly.
[11:06] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: Tracker field category no initial value	(crossposting) - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=53499
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[11:06] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: 18/09/14, Webinar - Tiki 14 release webinar (T12 and T13 version cycle) REMINDER - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=53493
[11:06] fabricius BUT what if a designer wants to ship a theme from his git account and he wants to include alternatives for certain accessibility situations or for spcific features/section/products .. like including a shop.css option, an admin dashboard, but all based on his set of files? Shall he provide 7 or 11 or 12 full themes?
[11:08] fabricius AND ... all these themes folders would have to be kept in sync by either the external designer or by the Tiki devteam, whils 90% or more of the folder are meant to have the same content anyway
[11:09] chibaguy I need to think about that when I'm not so sleepy ;-) .
[11:10] fabricius what you think? Am I on a complete wrong route with my thoughts?
[11:10] fabricius ok
[11:11] fabricius you are right, when you think about me as a regular Tiki user - I could just copy the desired theme 20 times, slightly rename and use that as option
[11:11] fabricius but we want to attract external designers and developers
[11:11] chibaguy Of course there should be as little duplication as possible. But if he is making a shop.css, is it a complete theme? or just covering one Tiki feature, and is meant to be used alongside the parent theme? He could just add the shop.css rules to the parent stylesheet.
[11:11] fabricius and make it easy to provide themes for Tiki
[11:12] fabricius chibaguy: could you please specify your idea/question?
[11:13] fabricius ...  He could just add the shop.css rules to the parent stylesheet. ... means what technically?
[11:13] chibaguy I don't know what LP has in mind for theme options. Seems like the choice is multiple files (parent stylesheet plus small option stylesheet) or multiple files (original parent stylesheet and new full-size stylesheet that was formerly an option).
[11:14] fabricius LP has in mind to seize theme options I tell you
[11:14] chibaguy I mean shop.css has some number of lines of code: CSS rules. Just put these in the parent css file instead of having a separate file.
[11:14] chibaguy seize: delete?
[11:15] fabricius so we want theme option and he has seized ... meaning, if we find a different way to get them, which is not conflicting his - actually right - ideas and just convince him that we need the functionality, then everything should be fine
[11:15] fabricius seize = delete yes
[11:16] fabricius that was the reason, why I asked Alexandre to discuss with me and explain me things ... there the idea above is coming from
[11:16] fabricius and that is why I discuss so much in detail with you
[11:17] chibaguy Well, from the distribution standpoint, he's right. Why not just have a separate full stylesheet instead of a pair parent and option stylesheets to accomplish the same thing.
[11:17] chibaguy But from a site admin or user or non-technical person's standpoint, probably theme options still makes sense.
[11:17] fabricius do we want and need theme options and how do we get this together with LP's applicable ideas?
[11:18] fabricius but chibaguy why the two perspectives must be opposing?
[11:18] chibaguy Well, I don't like the idea of themes/fivealive-orange, themes/fivealive-kiwi, etc. when almost all the contents are identical.
[11:19] fabricius why we should ship options instead of expecting site admins to process the less files themselves?
[11:19] fabricius yeahh!
[11:19] chibaguy So I hope there's a way to have themes/fivealive containing the option files' components and then compiling to perhaps produce themes/fivealive/css/fivealive-orange.css etc.
[11:20] chibaguy Well, from the beginning I think we had in mind that not everyone would work with Less. Site admins should be able to add a theme by creating the folder in themes/
[11:21] fabricius there is one question for options: would you think it would be better to have themes/fivealive/css/fivealive-orange.css (replacing ...tiki.css) or themes/fivealive/options/fivealive-orange.css ?
[11:21] chibaguy So they'd make themes/mynewtheme/css/tiki.css with no touching of less.
[11:21] fabricius absolutely!
[11:22] fabricius I mean I see that I have to learn LESS quite asap now ... really, as I must understand that to better be able to contribute in the whole process
[11:22] chibaguy or sorry, I meant maybe themes/fivealive/css/options/orange/tiki.css if that works ok to produce the right theme name in the selector.
[11:23] fabricius BUT at the same time I 100% support the idea of not punishing anybody of our existing or future users to any having to use LESS)
[11:23] chibaguy Sure, that should be an option. It's hard enough to get/make themes for tiki without putting another barrier up.
[11:23] fabricius themes/fivealive/css/options/orange/tiki.css would be maybe the best variant ... never mentioned before
[11:24] fabricius actually then: themes/fivealive/css/options/orange/css/tiki.css
[11:24] chibaguy Well, there'd be a themes/fivealive/less/options/orange/tiki.less file to edit and compile, I imagine.
[11:24] fabricius yes
[11:25] fabricius themes/fivealive/css/options/orange/less/tiki.css
[11:25] chibaguy Um, I don't like the repitition of css directories in that path you wrote.
[11:25] fabricius I would leave that with you ... you are the specialist on that
[11:26] chibaguy (at 18:24:28)
[11:26] fabricius ah and I looked above ... no need anyway
[11:26] fabricius got your idea
[11:26] chibaguy anyway now I'm working on the paths in themes and will commit soon, so no more need for styles/
[11:26] chibaguy I'll leave options for a bit in the future.
[11:27] fabricius no repetition necessary, as it is inside  ../less/options ../css/options .. ah
[11:27] fabricius what you mean? I'll leave options for a bit in the future.
[11:28] chibaguy I mean for now I'm correcting the paths for the parent stylesheets
[11:28] fabricius ahh leave it for later
[11:28] chibaguy just a moment please - got to carry in groceries
[11:28] fabricius ok
[11:28] fabricius greetings to your wife
[11:39] chibaguy She says hi
[11:44] Tiki-KGB 03chibaguy r52563 10trunk/ 10(5 files in 4 dirs)
[11:44] Tiki-KGB [FIX] Move and rename former styles/layout directory and point to it in lib/setup/theme.php
[12:02] Tiki-KGB 03chibaguy r52564 10trunk/themes/ohia/ 10(29 files) * [KIL] Remove files incorrectly moved here.
[12:32] Tiki-KGB 03chibaguy r52565 10trunk/themes/ 10(19 files in 16 dirs)
[12:32] Tiki-KGB [FIX] Correct paths in Less files of legacy themes and rename some for consistency.
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[12:35] jonnyb polom for the weekend?
[12:36] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r52566 10trunk/lib/userslib.php 10trunk 10trunk/lib/trackers/trackerlib.php * [MRG] Automatic merge, branches/13.x 52548 to 52558
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[12:44] Tiki-KGB 03chibaguy r52567 10trunk/themes/amelia/ 10css/tiki.css 10less/tiki.less * [FIX] Correct paths in Less files of Bootswatch themes.
[12:52] fabricius Hi chibaguy ... have been disconnected, sry .. anything said to me?
[12:53] chibaguy No, nothing new I think.
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[12:54] chibaguy Well, Font Awesome is active by default now in trunk.
[13:07] jonnyb polom chibaguy and fabricius (and all)
[13:07] chibaguy hey jonnyb
[13:07] chibaguy survive the pub ok?
[13:07] jonnyb :)
[13:08] jonnyb actually we were in a restuarant by that stage - London pubs are too busy to even think about getting a laptop out!
[13:08] jonnyb really annoying it didn't connect properly, and then when it did Flash decided the webcam was being used by something else (which it wasn't) - ah well
[13:09] jonnyb we talked about TableSorter a lot :)
[13:12] Tiki-KGB 03chibaguy r52568 10trunk/tiki-admin.php * [FIX] Replace more glyphicons.
[13:12] chibaguy ah
[13:16] Tiki-KGB 03chibaguy r52569 10trunk/tiki-admin.php * [FIX] Replace more glyphicons.
[13:19] fabricius hi jonnyb
[13:22] Tiki-KGB 03chibaguy r52570 10trunk/lib/smarty_tiki/block.remarksbox.php * [FIX] Replace more glyphicons.
[13:33] fabricius chibaguy and jonnyb, how do you think, that mapping icons could be done in a good way (looking for a development in Tiki14 or in pre-15 trunk, if possible, so that we would get icon mapping into the 15 release)
[13:34] Tiki-KGB 03chibaguy r52571 10trunk/themes/darkroom/less/tiki-selectors.less * [FIX] Correct image path variable (testing).
[13:34] jonnyb i'm not too sure, have only been partly following the discussions i'm afraid
[13:34] fabricius there was the idea of a mapping file mentioned, but I have no clue, if that would be appropriate in respect of loading times
[13:34] jonnyb wouldn't it just be a question of adding a pref or two and modifying the {icon} smarty function?
[13:35] chibaguy fabricius, did you check the page on dev ?
[13:35] chibaguy um....
[13:35] fabricius jonnyb the idea was to be able to use kind of icon sets and to be free to choose svg or glyphs on a per theme base (or even more detailed)
[13:36] fabricius chibaguy: I did not yet have seen news on it .. I will have a look now, it seems, that I missed recent updates on it
[13:36] chibaguy dev.tiki.org/Icons
[13:39] fabricius yes chibaguy I am on the page and realise, that I missed a lot, as I was focussing on SVG vs Fonts ... just had a (too) qick look at Icons this morning, sorry
[13:39] fabricius so some of what I am bringing up now is already in discussion or even pre-desided
[13:42] Tiki-KGB 03chibaguy r52572 10trunk/themes/darkroom/less/tiki-selectors.less * [FIX] Correct image path variable (testing again, sorry).
[13:42] fabricius what do you think about that what is written on dev.t.o/Icons? I think most of the ideas have been added by gezza (edits in May from Luci and in Feb from marc)
[13:42] chibaguy Yeah, I don't know. I need to study it more.
[13:42] chibaguy No time today.
[13:46] Tiki-KGB 03chibaguy r52573 10trunk/ 03themes/lumen/less/lumen.less 10themes/darkroom/css/tiki.css 10themes/darkroom/less/tiki-selectors.less 10composer.lock * [FIX] Correct image path variable (testing again, sorry).
[13:46] jonnyb chibaguy: did you see Alex Q committed a console.php command less:compile?
[13:46] fabricius no problem ... just to mention: I find most of the ideas quite good. Some questions are brought up in a remarksbox, I cannot really answer. One thing I do not like so much: "- Local iconset customizations can be put to 2 places: /styles/ folder if you want it to be applied to all your themes or into the themes folder to use it only for the given theme "
[13:47] jonnyb that doesn't sound so good, fabricius - i think we should start thinking of the styles directory as deprecated and not add new stuff to it
[13:47] jonnyb perhaps we should have a themes/custom dir for local tweaks?
[13:48] chibaguy Right, the page info was written before styles directory became deprecated.
[13:48] fabricius exactly jonnyb, but I assume, that gezza just does not know about that and does not want to deside. I think, as how I consider him thinking, he will be supporting the idea of deprecting /styles/ in favor of /themes/ - we must give him update
[13:49] fabricius but again, them the same question: 2 places for icon sets a) in themes/iconsets b) in themes/mytheme/iconset ?
[13:49] fabricius does that make sense?
[13:49] chibaguy I'm sure he doesn't care if it's styles or themes directory.
[13:50] fabricius me aswell
[13:50] chibaguy Seems to me you only want one copy of an icon set.
[13:50] fabricius there is one thing, where I assume an additional /themes/iconset(s) made sense:
[13:50] chibaguy just point to it from whatever theme.
[13:51] chibaguy I'm not sure why every theme folder has an icons folder.
[13:51] jonnyb is there a "standard" bootstrap way of doing this?
[13:51] chibaguy yes, bootstrap has a variable that's the path the the directory.
[13:52] fabricius In case a designer wants to use an iconset that is published with a free licence, but not compatible with Tiki's LGPL, he should have the opportunity to ship the iconset from his git account included in his themes/mytheme and no need for the user to move the iconset after unzipping to /themes/
[13:52] chibaguy and also a variable for the font name, for icon font.
[13:52] jonnyb i would have thought that individual themes wouldn't all need an iconset dir, only if they want to oveerride the default ones surely?
[13:52] jonnyb (but actually i'm not sure what i'm talking about ;) )
[13:52] chibaguy I understand that, fabricius, but what if he wants to use it with more than one theme?
[13:53] chibaguy No problem, jonnyb. that never stops us ;-) .
[13:53] fabricius chibaguy: then he still can copy it to themes/iconsets
[13:53] chibaguy rrr
[13:54] jonnyb :D
[13:54] fabricius self-contained-themes does not mean that every theme supports all other themes with it's content as default for everything
[13:54] fabricius it just means, that all is included that is needed for this single one
[13:55] fabricius download - unzip one folder into /themes/ works
[13:56] fabricius but to use parts of one extenal non-lagacy (pre-shipped) theme for other themes might always be an advanced task for an admin with server access, meaning the necessity of copying one or few files from one custom folder to an existing default folder
[14:00] jonnyb have to go for a while, bbl (and will read http://dev.tiki.org/Icons#Iconset_specification again properly when i return, looks a bit overcomplicated currently to me...)
[14:02] Tiki-KGB 03chibaguy r52574 10trunk/themes/ 10(12 files in 12 dirs) * [FIX] Correct image path variable.
[14:02] chibaguy fabricius, I understand that about self-contained themes. You might be interested that it's been possible already for a long time.
[14:02] chibaguy The themes at mods.tiki.org are .gz archives that, when expanded, put the files in the right places in templates and styles. Just an interesting factoid.
[14:06] fabricius really chibaguy! ... maybe some lack on information or documentation or communication ... anyway I feel, that the actual way we approach this functionality seems more obvious and more easy to handly for non-Tiki-enlighted external newbies ... and maybe less risk for wrecking stuff by this target group!?
[14:07] chibaguy Well, as far as I know, there hasn't been much interest by that target group or anyone similar.
[14:08] chibaguy There aren't many inquiries about doing Tiki themes, or people having technical questions about theme-making or problems understanding the file structure, etc.
[14:08] chibaguy So I think it's fine for us to improve the intuitiveness of the file structure, but I don't think it'll have much practical impact, really.
[14:09] chibaguy Just a feeling based on the little interest expressed from new people.
[14:09] chibaguy But I'm an optimist so am hoping that the various improvements and modernization will help make some good things happen.
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[14:12] chibaguy I wonder why a theme change takes an extra page refresh in trunk.
[14:22] fabricius yes .. you need an extra page refresh to get the theme working
[14:22] fabricius no idea aswell
[14:25] fabricius chibaguy: the idea is to proactively getting theme designers attracted to Tiki by mentioning how easy and intuitive it is to implement themes to Tiki ... most of them might not even know about Tiki and so never come to the idea to ask about how to implement themes for our beast.
[14:26] chibaguy that's right
[14:27] Tiki|bot Recent Bug:  - http://dev.tiki.org/item5468
[14:27] fabricius one of the next tasks - at least for me, but maybe to others aswell - is to find free and nice bootstrap themes and to get in contact with the designers for options to get there themes implemented to Tiki
[14:28] fabricius and then we have frequent topics for annoncements and one or the other press release
[14:29] fabricius but I do not yet see the development at a stage we could start this phase ... near by, but not yet there
[14:29] fabricius you are one of the core people making this possible
[14:29] fabricius LP aswell
[14:30] fabricius another idea I have is to write some documentation about how to create a theme with LESS using Tiki as a use case
[14:31] fabricius as you know, I have learned most of what I know by using Tiki as a use case and even the old system with /styles/ and options helped me a lot
[14:32] fabricius it did need a LOOONG time for me to get any clue about templates, but the bootstrap approach made it necessary for me to understand the concept and some details ... I love that
[14:32] fabricius actually I do not know if I would understand today without dev.t.o/Template+Tricks
[14:34] fabricius so using these bits of smarty syntax in custom modules, my left-flip admin area and then the bootstrap implementation opened my eyes about templates
[14:36] Tiki-KGB 03chibaguy r52575 10trunk/ 10(5 files in 4 dirs) * [FIX] Correct path to tiki_base.css.
[14:36] fabricius if designers who are not yet using LESS, but would be interested in using it would be able to learn it with Tiki, cause we have a good documentation for it ... I think, we could attract some of them to Tiki so much, that they might stay with us
[14:36] fabricius and then talking about ...
[14:36] fabricius spreading the word
[14:36] fabricius what you think?
[14:37] Tiki|bot Recent Bug:  - http://dev.tiki.org/item5469
[14:38] chibaguy Well, one of the main reasons to be compatible with Bootstrap was that many designers already know Bootstrap and already know Less and/or Sass precompilers. So we shouldn't have to instruct them. We just need to document what is additional in Tiki. Bootstrap lifts the weight from us since there is a lot of documentation about Bootstrap themes and methods, etc. already out there.
[14:39] chibaguy If we have to write up lots of docs, then we're doing something wrong.
[14:39] chibaguy (that is, implementing Bootstrap wrong.)
[14:43] chibaguy What needs promoting, of course, is Tiki itself. Making themes shouldn't be an issue now.
[14:44] Tiki-KGB 03chibaguy r52576 10trunk/lib/setup/theme.php * [FIX] Correct file name in path.
[14:44] chibaguy Choosing to make them for Tiki is what people need to be convinced about.
[14:44] chibaguy Not only theme makers, but all kinds of developers.
[14:45] chibaguy Why is it so hard for someone to find a dev to make a custom plugin for their site? Everyone who knows how to do Tiki coding on that level is already busy with projects.
[14:48] chibaguy ah great, "base_files" shows up in the theme selector >:^/
[14:49] chibaguy that's the reason "themes" needs to be "pure".
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[15:04] fabricius chibaguy: what about a directory /basefiles/ in Tiki root instead? there could be /basefiles/less for that you are working on and /basefiles/readme.txt with some basic documentation and links to the Tiki docs on doc.t.o and themes.t.o ?
[15:07] fabricius chibaguy: I think, that right now the designers are the crucial target group ... the more interesting design we have, the more sexy websites, the more web-projects and customers could be attracted and thus more devs could be made aware about business options with Tiki - then starting to do projects with Tiki and releave the existing team ...
[15:09] chibaguy If it's in tikiroot, then it needs a more descriptive name, like theme_base_files, or css_base or something
[15:10] fabricius yes, if we need only base files for less
[15:10] fabricius I believe you will figure out the right way ;-)
[15:16] Tiki-KGB 03chibaguy r52577 03trunk/themes/feb12/css/tiki.css * [NEW] Relocated compiled Feb12 theme stylesheet.
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[15:24] jonnyb repolom
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[16:34] Tiki-KGB 03luciash r52578 10branches/13.x/ 10templates/tiki-view_tracker_item.tpl 10tiki-view_tracker_item.php
[16:34] Tiki-KGB [FIX] Tracker Comments tab doesn’t show number in parenthesis as Attachments do (ref. http://dev.tiki.org/bug5056)
[16:40] luciash polom
[16:40] jonnyb pompom luciash
[16:41] luciash hey jonny, avoiding skype today ? ;)
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[16:41] jonnyb oops, thought it was a bit quiet! :)
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[17:36] Tiki-KGB 03luciash r52579 10trunk/tiki-view_tracker_item.php 10trunk/templates/tiki-view_tracker_item.tpl 10trunk * [MRG] Automatic merge, branches/13.x 52558 to 52578
[17:41] Jyhem polom
[17:41] jonnyb hi Jyhem
[17:42] * Jyhem tries to find how to style the help pop-ups. No way I can select them with firebug :-(
[17:45] jonnyb Jyhem: try finding the div in the DOM inspector and setting the display: block
[17:45] Jyhem it looks related to class pref_dependency
[17:46] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: Where is the auto-toc on dev.t.o? - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=53508
[17:50] Jyhem hmm, no, maybe tikihelp
[18:08] Jyhem which leads to .cluetip
[18:18] Jyhem anyone knows what may enlarge the size of the cluetip pop-ups ?
[18:25] Jyhem Ahaahhh, changing var ctOptions = {…} in lib/jquery_tiki/tiki-jquery.js works as a workaround!
[18:27] Jyhem Strange that I found no way of doing this in CSS
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[19:11] Jyhem jonnyb: I missed your message but the whole issue is, the pop-up is never under the mouse, so there was no way of "catching" it with the DOM inspector. I still don't know what DOM object it is
[19:12] jonnyb think it's just div.cluetips?
[19:12] jonnyb close - div#cluetip
[19:21] Jyhem Hmmm, div#cluetip{width: 800px} makes no difference. Nevermind, I can read the cluetips now, and I went ahead to the real issue I was tasked to solve
[19:22] Jyhem It's amazing how many people actually ask to have some object types removed from the search
[19:23] jonnyb :)
[19:24] jonnyb Jyhem: do you know about the github repo?
[19:25] Jyhem But «only search articles, pages wiki & blog unless in groups admin or subadmin, who search for all» is kind of non-generic :-)
[19:25] Jyhem jonnyb: yes and no. I heard about its existence but I never went to look
[19:26] jonnyb ok, it's actually a phpstorm thing i think, it doesn't seem to have noticed 13.x is there upstream...
[19:28] Jyhem You mean the github repo is missing Tiki13 ?
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[20:08] jonnyb sorry Jyhem - no, github has it ok but it's not showing up in my phpstorm project... not to worry, but thanks for asking :)
[20:08] jonnyb going to go get food etc now, see you later/tomorrow/whenever
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[20:50] fcpd tikiwiki 12.2: Would like to hire someone to make my existing tracker automatically create a wiki page from the first field item entered. Also need to get an explanation of the multiselect feature. $50USD via Paypal. I have other small stuff as well if anyone on here is interested.
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[21:18] rob____ I have a question before downloading installing and learning tiki
[21:18] Tiki|bot Welcome to the official Tiki Wiki CMS Groupware channel. Please ask your question directly. Don't ask to ask. Someone will reply if and when they know the answer. Welcome again and please stay a while. Thank you!
[21:18] Tiki|bot Welcome to the official Tiki Wiki CMS Groupware channel. Please ask your question directly. Don't ask to ask. Someone will reply if and when they know the answer. Welcome again and please stay a while. Thank you!
[21:20] fcpd @Rob: If I can answer it I will. I am not a programmer but have played around since the 3.x days
[21:21] fcpd AFK 2minutes
[21:57] luciash Jyhem: I can confirm that... client wanted all removed from search, categories and freetags except wiki, blogs and forum results here too
[21:58] luciash Jyhem: I guess making it preferences in Search admin panel would make sense at some point
[22:53] fabricius Hello, I have an important question to you devs. And on that base I will deside, if I will use your software. I will disappear in less than 120 seconds, so hurry up to convince me. GO!
[23:09] luciash LOL
[23:19] Jyhem luciash: just found time for watching yesterday's BBC video on  former president Klaus. Too late, I know, but thanks all the same. Still interesting.