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[00:38] Tiki-KGB 03lindonb r55156 10branches/ 10(27 files)
[00:38] Tiki-KGB [ENH] use css menus for action item dropdown when javascript is not used; also don't use the table-responsive class in that case so dropdown is not cut off
[00:38] Tiki-KGB 03lindonb r55157 10(29 files in 3 dirs) * [MRG] Automatic merge, branches/14.x 55154 to 55156
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[03:52] Tiki-KGB 03lindonb r55158 10branches/14.x/templates/tiki-edit_question_options.tpl * [FIX] typo in variable name
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[04:00] Tiki-KGB 03lindonb r55161 10branches/ 1014.x/lib/setup/theme.php 1014.x/lib/smarty_tiki/function.menu.php
[04:00] Tiki-KGB [FIX] Switch to css menus instead of flying out menus when javascript is not being used. Forces css=y bootstrap=n and type=horiz regardless of user settings. Not sure why type=horiz was necessary, but menus flew out without it. If this is considered a good fix, then the javascript_disabled_shows_all_menus pref is probably not needed.
[04:42] Tiki-KGB 03lindonb r55162 10branches/14.x/lib/smarty_tiki/function.menu.php * [FIX] Missed a dreaded EXTR_SKIP variable in previous commit (r55161)
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[10:10] jaba hi
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[10:14] jaba hi anybody there?
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[10:25] jaba hi
[10:25] jaba any one there?
[10:26] jaba hhello
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[11:26] Tiki-KGB 03luciash r55163 10branches/14.x/lib/breadcrumblib.php
[11:26] Tiki-KGB [FIX] Wiki: remove stray strong closing tag from page title in breadcrumblib (leftover from past Tikis?) causing invalid HTML
[11:30] Tiki-KGB 03luciash r55164 10trunk/lib/setup/theme.php 10trunk/lib/smarty_tiki/function.menu.php 10trunk 10trunk/lib/breadcrumblib.php * [MRG] Automatic merge, branches/14.x 55159 to 55163
[11:31] fabricius polom
[11:31] fabricius hi jaba
[11:32] fabricius ouch
[11:32] fabricius gone
[11:32] fabricius hi jonnyb
[11:32] jonnyb polom fabricius
[11:33] fabricius question: desc means newest first, oldest last, right?
[12:01] jonnyb desc is short for descending, so z to a, or high to low, or with dates, yes, new (big) to old (smaller)
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[12:03] chibaguy polomonday
[12:05] jonnyb pompom chibaguy
[12:05] chibaguy Hi jonnyb
[12:06] Tiki-KGB 03anbumania r55165 10branches/ 1014.x/themes/base_files/css/tiki_base.css 1014.x/themes/base_files/less/tiki-cssmenus.less * [FIX]-5633-Non-bootstrap navigation menus only pop on to menuLevel1
[12:12] chibaguy Theme control seems to work ok in Tiki 14, despite some question when themes.t.o was updated.
[12:14] jonnyb yes, it seemed the upgrade script failed
[12:15] jonnyb didn't spot the change from the bootstrap themes being an option on one theme to being stand alone themes
[12:15] jonnyb need to reproduce here (but a bit buried just now, actually on a server in Japan ;) )
[12:27] chibaguy oh :-)
[12:28] jonnyb updating my friend's site to tiki 14 - looking good :)
[12:34] chibaguy nice :-)
[12:38] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: tracker item profile question - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=26&comments_parentId=55871
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[12:47] fabricius chibaguy, jonnyb: I just recently tested theme control and it seems to work with categories (imho the most important part), but not for sections (features) and not for objects
[12:48] chibaguy Interesting, fabricius. I just tested it with sections (features) and objects, and it worked fine.
[12:48] chibaguy (didn't check with categories yet)
[12:48] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: Forum Group Watches in tiki 14.0 - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=4&comments_parentId=55872
[12:48] jonnyb i think themes.t.o is using categories
[12:48] jonnyb not tried sections for ages though
[12:49] chibaguy Yeah, I don't usually, but just to check, I switched it on.
[12:50] chibaguy Themes.t.o had been using categories to apply theme styles to the theme-related page, for demo purposes.
[12:53] fabricius chibaguy .. it seems to be in development and maybe we did not have the exact same version - although I svn up quite frequently these times
[12:53] chibaguy Well, the site I checked on is zukakakina.com, and it's up to date svn.
[12:54] chibaguy oh, sorry, it was my localhost that I checked on.
[12:54] fabricius chibaguy: I believe you
[12:54] chibaguy well, I didn't think you doubted me. i just wanted to indicate the svn status.
[12:55] fabricius anyway chibaguy it seems to work somehow, so might be possible to fix if not robust enough ... it is implemented
[12:55] fabricius and I will recheck after one of my next svn ups - thx for the hint
[12:55] fabricius by the way: 14 or trunk?
[12:56] chibaguy 14. One glitch is that you can't set a theme + option, I think (recalling the screen).
[12:56] chibaguy At least for objects and sections.
[12:57] fabricius ok
[12:57] chibaguy oh, my mistake. It is possible
[12:57] fabricius ok ok
[12:58] fabricius hen I think back a few weeks ago, some of us feared to lose options and theme control at all
[12:58] chibaguy (I'm accustomed to two separate selectors for themes and options, but now they're both in one, as you know.)
[12:58] chibaguy fivealive/akebi, etc.
[12:58] fabricius I am more than happy, that this was reimplemented, even I do not know (yet) who took the workload for that
[12:58] chibaguy right. thanks to you and others who rescued them.
[13:00] fabricius I haven't been able to code it myself, but it was obvious that we would need to keep them, so at least we had to explain the coders their relevance
[13:01] fabricius similar problem right at the moment with basic no-script access to navigation and basic editing
[13:01] fabricius heavy fights in the community which I did never experience in Tiki com before .. anyway, we will find good solutions in the end
[13:15] chibaguy I wouldn't say "heavy fights" but that's just my perspective, I guess.
[13:15] chibaguy I do think it's interesting how strongly people feel about javascript. It was a surprise to me when the objection was raised recently.
[13:16] chibaguy Seems to be kind of a regional thing, also.
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[13:59] jonnyb lunchtime here, bbl
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[14:46] fabricius chibaguy: yes, indeed it might be a regional thing. and it might be a thing of certain user groups and types of NGOs ... yet Frank, Mette and myself strongly feel that they ave to be adresses and shaould not be left behind or ignored
[14:48] Tiki-KGB 03luciash r55167 10trunk/lib/core/Tracker/Field/ItemLink.php 10trunk/themes/base_files/less/tiki-cssmenus.less 10trunk/themes/base_files/css/tiki_base.css 10trunk * [MRG] Automatic merge, branches/14.x 55163 to 55166
[14:48] chibaguy fabricius, i was just doing some research and one site said that no-javascript users are 2% in the US and 1.6% in France and Spain (just some examples). I thought the percentage was higher in Europe based on our little community here.
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[14:48] chibaguy (The figures are a few years old.)
[14:50] chibaguy Seems like there are case-by-case workarounds, like these: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22153388/bootstrap-no-script-fall-back-for-drop-down-button
[14:51] fabricius chibaguy: we (mainly Frank, Mette and myself) are talking about basic stuff - navigation, browsing content, editing a WikiPage, stuff like that. It should at lest be possible for site admins to offer fallbacks for that without the need to completely rewrite the templates (and then maintaining te full set).
[14:55] chibaguy Hopefully the template modifications (or lib/smarty_tiki modifications) aren't too extensive.
[14:55] fabricius chibaguy: as we have the opportunity to create navbars in custom modules manually, those workarounds can do the job for that. module_menu has a bootstrap=y/n option, which is quite good. Lindon just committed a css behaviour for ellipses for the preference "switch off javascript", which is not really what we need, but indeed a step furter
[14:57] fabricius we need to find a standart procedure, a method that is not too complicated for ellipses, drop downs, wrenches in the templated - I do want to prevent blowing up the templates
[14:57] fabricius /s/templated/templates
[14:57] chibaguy I suppose it'd be a "selling point" if we can say Tiki works without javascript, for sure, even if that isn't an issue for 98% of site users.
[14:59] fabricius a good point, even if we should say then "Tiki works without JS to some extend" ;-)
[14:59] fabricius actually chibaguy: extend or extent ?
[14:59] chibaguy extent
[14:59] fabricius ah ok
[14:59] chibaguy extend is the verb.
[14:59] fabricius thx
[14:59] chibaguy sure
[15:02] fabricius but as you are very deeply involved in the templates chibaguy, do you know how the parameter "bootstrap=y/n" is implemented for the menus? Do you think that could be a "hook" to make the dropdowns, ellipses etc. css when JS is not detected?
[15:04] fabricius I feel, that switching off JS for the whole site would be kind of a crude workaround (better then nothing), which allows a no-script perspective. I'd wish more that those elements fall back to "css mode" if no-script automatically - and for the preference approach there is some code for every affected dropdown anyway
[15:04] fabricius what do you think would be a path worth to try?
[15:05] chibaguy well, I only know the menubuilding varies depending on the bootstrap=y/n switch. I imagine a check for javascript can be integrated into that.
[15:05] chibaguy Well, CSS is what hides the hidden elements to begin with. If you switch off both JS and CSS, everything is visible on the page. ;-)
[15:05] chibaguy But ugly.
[15:06] chibaguy Sometimes I do switch off CSS (in Opera 12, you can switch between "author style" and "user style" which in my case means no style).
[15:07] fabricius my idea would be kind of a general method - some documented code snippet(s) or so - which "tell" tiki, that if JS is not detected parameter bootstrap=y falls back to parameter bootstrap=n, even if default setting applies (no parameter set manually)
[15:08] chibaguy Someone needs to reply about that, who actually knows how it would be implemented ;-).
[15:08] fabricius actually we do need to find out how we can and then how we want to implement it
[15:08] fabricius humm
[15:09] fabricius very first we ave to deside if we WANT to implement it
[15:09] fabricius /s/ave/have
[15:17] fabricius chibaguy: Even if it might be an interesting question and helpful to know, why site visitors or users wanted to stay no-script, the more important question is, if we want to respect their desicion at least to an extent and if we want to respect the requirement from consultants to adress tis target group
[15:19] fabricius you aswell mentioned no-script capabilities as possible "selling point" and that only about 1.6% to 2% of might be the figure of users who use no-script. I think about how many users that would be a absolte number and how many possible customers that could be.
[15:20] chibaguy I think it's important to know the reasons why people don't want sites to use javascript, to help us decide the priority of no-js functionality. A much larger group than noscript people is probably using IE 7 or 8 and we don't support them any more because there's no valid reason for them to not use modern browsers, I suppose.
[15:21] amette polom
[15:21] chibaguy hey amette.
[15:21] amette yeah, I think the "valid reason" is the reason - not activating JS is quite valid imho.
[15:21] fabricius what would be, if that would be about a few hundretthousand people and if there would be projects to try to offer them collaboration and knowledge/document management, but those projects would not find appropriate software
[15:21] amette hi chibaguy and fabricius :)
[15:21] fabricius hi amette
[15:21] fabricius how are you?
[15:21] amette fine thanks, how are you?
[15:22] fabricius not too bad, but the JS discussion is eating time - massively
[15:22] amette I believe so.
[15:22] fabricius very good, that you pop in and add comments
[15:23] fabricius gives me some relieve, cause I am not mainly advertising for myself, but more advocating other users requirements
[15:23] amette chibaguy: I'd guess that people using the Tor Browser Bundle are probably an easy to imagine group of people that don't want JavaScript for security/privacy purposes.
[15:23] amette I don't think that everything in Tiki needs work without JavaScript (and that's impossible, I understand that).
[15:24] amette But if people just trying to privately research information on the web, can't do so without risking their security, then Tiki went too far.
[15:24] amette And imho it mustn't be impossible to display information wihtout needing JavaScript.
[15:25] fabricius +1
[15:26] amette If one wants to use advanced features on a Tiki site, then one most probably trusts that site already. At this point one would activate JavaScript and the burden turns over to the sysadmin of the site to use HTTPs and other technologies to make JS-injection impossible.
[15:26] chibaguy search at a tiki site doesn't seem to require js in the browser, so that's good.
[15:26] chibaguy I think displaying information is ok, too. Probably navigation is the main problem.
[15:26] amette So I imagine a good rule of thumb being to "keep the information accessible" to people without JavaScript. This includes navigation, etc.
[15:27] amette chibaguy: yep, I see you get me :)
[15:27] chibaguy Well, some presentation of information needs js now - the modals and dropdowns.
[15:27] fabricius where we maybe able to find methods
[15:27] chibaguy also maybe file uploading? I'm not sure.
[15:27] amette Please don't take the "keep the information accessible" as set in stone yet, but I guess this could be kind of a 1st rule for non-JS design.
[15:28] fabricius and get selling point, as then Tiki has Bootstrap with noscript fallback, what is requested out there every here and then
[15:28] amette Good point! File uploading is probably not really included in the "keep the information accessible", but it should also work without JS.
[15:28] fabricius appears to be a start of a priority list
[15:29] amette Modals and Dropdowns should (could?) have kind of a generic fallback solution as fabricius mentioned? Code once, fallback happens automatically?
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[15:29] fabricius we are discussing that - here a bit with chibaguy, Frank and myself with Lindon, me yesterday with Nelson ...
[15:30] amette So I think that this would be a nifty design and implementation issue for some things once, but then we get 80% of all issues figured out.
[15:30] fabricius the question is, if we find a standart procedure for that, which does not blow up the templates and does not requieres double coding all over the place
[15:31] chibaguy Whoever would do the implementing needs to check into that, I guess.
[15:32] amette Yes, I think so. Sadly I am so far away from code recently, I fear I'm of not much help with that. :-/
[15:32] chibaguy fabricius, are you thinking of this as a trunk/tiki 15 thing?
[15:32] * amette thinks Tiki 15 is enough and a must at the same time since it's LTS again
[15:33] fabricius we cannot pour code with a watering can over the template, as this would insult the massive work on templates done by chibaguy and a few others
[15:34] chibaguy I think most of the changes won't be in the templates so much as in lib/smarty_tiki where the functional parts are put together.
[15:34] chibaguy or similar places
[15:34] fabricius chibaguy amette: If we would agree, that we really want it and we agree a decent behaviour, agree a priority list and minimum requirements, kind of an agreed plan, I am convinced that it would be ok to do that stuff on trunk and leave it out in 14
[15:34] amette Terminating this for 15 does not mean though that one can push forced JS into 14 and then these parts of Tiki don't have to be 'fixed' for 15 - I got that impression from Lindon on the devel-list, I might have misunderstood though.
[15:35] fabricius amette: I did not understand your previous sentence
[15:36] amette chibaguy: Ok, cool, I hoped so that it could be done in lib/smarty_tiki. And those pieces of code would then basically also give a guideline for template writers.
[15:37] amette fabricius: then forget about it - I went into ranting mode a bit
[15:37] amette terminate is the wrong word though - schedule is right :)
[15:37] fabricius ok, we leave it. I had controversial discussions there, but aswell mutual appologies ... no point to take it into the community
[15:38] amette Terminate is a really bad false friend for a native German speaker when talking English! *GG*
[15:39] fabricius hehe, yes, like "handy" for "mobile phone / cell phone" or "public viewing" for "publicly watch football in a group"
[15:39] fabricius watching
[15:40] amette Indeed. So, but: I think that between chibaguy, fabricius and me here in this chat we more or less agree, don't we?
[15:41] fabricius from my side yes and I am convinced, that aswell Frank would agree to that if he would be here - I will inform him about the status - we should recapitulate before we go and put that onto the wiki page.
[15:41] chibaguy I think so. I think it would be good to identify the things in Tiki that currently use (depend on) javascript. Then decide which are "essential" to provide a no-js fallback for. If we can all agree on those, it'll make it easier to go forward.
[15:42] chibaguy Speakaing of go, I need to go take a shower now. bbl.
[15:42] amette Indeed. So, but: I think that between chibaguy, fabricius and me here in this chat we more or less agree, don't we? 3. Implement it all for Tiki 15 LTS.
[15:42] amette what happened with my last line of chat?! :P
[15:42] fabricius chibaguy and amette would you be ok, when I put this IRC discussion added to the wikipage aswell?
[15:43] fabricius amette, maybe too many independand lines / linebreaks
[15:43] fabricius say it again amette
[15:44] amette Plan of action: 1. Create a minimal set of rules that helps grasp the core concepts of non-JS, like "keep the information accessible" 2. Codify that. 3. Implement across the board for Tiki 15 LTS.
[15:44] fabricius Codify you mean write the code?
[15:45] amette And first step for point (1.) in my action plan is actually what chibaguy said: identify things in Tiki that currently depend on JS (and shouldn't).
[15:46] amette fabricius: yes, codify is sciency speak for 'turning intangible information from the minds of people into readable/transferrable code (like natural language or computer code)'
[15:46] fabricius amette for clarification: with "depend on and shouldn't" you mean that needs a fallback?
[15:46] amette yes
[15:46] fabricius ok
[15:47] fabricius so I agree to that recapitulation
[15:47] fabricius gary? chibaguy
[15:47] amette ok, cool - and yeah: feel free to add this chat to the page - IRC is logged anyways, so I think you don't have to ask
[15:47] fabricius ok
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[15:49] Cr0vaX polom
[15:49] fabricius Gary seems to be showering already. So we take it from here. Thank you very much amette .. you appeared at the right time at the right place ;-)
[15:49] fabricius hi Cr0vaX
[15:49] fabricius bolow
[15:50] amette you're welcome fabricius *bow*
[15:50] amette *ninjamettevanishesagain*
[15:50] jonnyb repolom
[15:50] fabricius hi Jonnyb
[15:51] Cr0vaX I'll be implementing a Tiki soon
[15:51] fabricius I have to adress an issue to you - maybe really important - which I postponed for the last few days every day sadly - 14 release related Jonnyb!
[15:51] Cr0vaX in your opinnion, should I implement v13 or v14 trunk?
[15:52] jonnyb 14, definitely
[15:52] fabricius Cr0vaX: development or intranet? v14 public site? 12 or wait for 14
[15:52] Cr0vaX it's intranet
[15:52] jonnyb 13.x will have one more minor upgrade and then is end of life, 14 is the way forward (and bootstrap is so much better)
[15:52] Cr0vaX and will be used for more then 150users
[15:53] fabricius trunk is too dev and 13 was a preliminary version for the Bootstrap transition
[15:53] fabricius 14
[15:53] fabricius Jonnyb and me agree to recommend you 14
[15:55] Cr0vaX I've been trying v13, and now v14
[15:55] Cr0vaX v14beta
[15:55] fabricius back to my address Jonnyb: INTERTIKI - I have switched my productive testing setup from master=12, clients=12/14/trunk to master=14, then trunk
[15:56] Cr0vaX and from what I've tried, v14 seems way much better
[15:56] fabricius I will recheck again Jonnyb, but I fear, that when we upgrade tiki.org to 14, the INTERTIKI wil brake
[15:56] fabricius /s/wil/will
[15:57] Cr0vaX my question was more about how v14beta was going about errors
[15:57] fabricius So if I can proof that, we have to fix before release, do you agree Jonnyb?
[15:57] jonnyb fabricius: it seems to work ok on themes.tiki.org for me
[15:57] fabricius There is no way to test this specific setup on show (show cannot be an intertiki master)
[15:58] jonnyb i know, but theme was updated last week and is ok
[15:58] jonnyb themes
[15:58] fabricius Jonyb I am not talking about 14 as client, that definitely works
[15:58] fabricius Jonnyb
[15:59] Cr0vaX http://sourceforge.net/projects/tikiwiki/files/Tiki_14.x_Peony/14.0beta/ will this have error correction already made after v14beta lauch?
[16:00] fabricius I will finally test this again today and hopefully report before end of the day. But Jonnyb, I just want to know, if you'd agree this to be a blocker if proofed.
[16:00] fabricius Cr0vaX: what you mena with "error correction"?
[16:01] jonnyb but the only way to fix it would be on a live site right, fabricius? i guess we could make next.tiki.org the master for nextdev for instance and test that?
[16:02] jonnyb although i can't see what would have changed since 13 in that code
[16:03] fabricius Jonnyb that was one part of the plan, which I agreed with Nelson yesterday
[16:03] Cr0vaX fabricius:since v14b was released, several bugs were reported, and some corrected already(I think)
[16:03] jonnyb Cr0vaX: yes, you should use svn if you can
[16:04] fabricius Cr0vaX: I hope so, even no guarantee how many and which ... actually we are late mainly cause of fixing issues
[16:04] jonnyb alternatively there are daily tarball builds (i think)
[16:04] fabricius yes
[16:04] Cr0vaX I'll use svn to get it then :)
[16:05] jonnyb https://dev.tiki.org/Get+Code#Using_14.x_from_SVN
[16:05] fabricius and maybe a good idea to make regular backups
[16:05] Cr0vaX ty
[16:06] Cr0vaX I'll have to use a tool since I'm using W8
[16:06] fabricius I just recently made some .sh file for a daily backup of the dbs on one server all in once (thx to refizul 's help)
[16:07] fabricius W8?
[16:07] fabricius ahh W8
[16:07] fabricius using Lunux .. I find it easier to use Linux, as I have to interact with servers on a daily basis
[16:08] fabricius thus mor or less just extends the desktop
[16:09] Cr0vaX :)
[16:09] Cr0vaX I'm not "free" where I work
[16:09] fabricius you can use svn directly from the shell and logging in to a server which has svn installed, you can do the same there
[16:09] Cr0vaX so... have to use W8
[16:09] fabricius you are not free? modern slavery?
[16:09] Cr0vaX LOL
[16:09] fabricius what you are doing?
[16:09] Cr0vaX I in IT at a Town Hall
[16:10] fabricius ok
[16:10] fabricius maybe virtualisation?
[16:10] Cr0vaX our environment is pure Microsoft
[16:10] fabricius ouch
[16:10] fabricius there are a lot of good IT guys in MS environment
[16:10] Cr0vaX Tortoise SVN will do it just fine :)
[16:11] fabricius as they have to handle the things
[16:11] Cr0vaX our aim, is to implement Tiki Wiki as our Intranet knowledge base
[16:11] fabricius cool
[16:11] fabricius that is a very good idea
[16:12] Cr0vaX also aiming for ISO 9001
[16:12] fabricius if you want to hire a consultant, just give me a ring
[16:12] Cr0vaX ty
[16:13] fabricius could help your department setting up, structuring, doing training
[16:13] fabricius online or maybe a workshop
[16:13] fabricius ;-)
[16:13] Cr0vaX will let you know if we need it, ty :)
[16:13] fabricius cool, please do so
[16:15] fabricius will you put at least the intranet on linux, or even that on windows? You should not use stuff like XAMPP for production - that is meant for testing
[16:16] Cr0vaX for now, it'll be on Windows also
[16:16] Cr0vaX and using Wamp with production profiles
[16:16] fabricius If you'd need a good Linux admin to consult you, do not forget Frank (refizul) or amette, Jyhem aswell
[16:16] fabricius ok, once you have production profiles
[16:16] chibaguy fabricius, what is the problem with a WAMP stack for running Tiki on an intranet?
[16:17] fabricius I knew I'd be trapped :D
[16:17] Cr0vaX there are problems
[16:17] Cr0vaX when you're talking about 100+ users
[16:18] Cr0vaX not all of them may be well intentioned, and security is all
[16:18] Cr0vaX but now we need to have it implemented ASAP
[16:19] Cr0vaX and all the tests were made on windows
[16:19] Cr0vaX by then the faster way is to use a similar environment
[16:19] Cr0vaX we'll be using LDAP authentication, dll configurations and so on
[16:20] fabricius I know (respectively refer) to apachefriends.com `s XAMPP, WAMPP, LAMPP and they strictly recommend not to use for production (at least did for years, next Frank (refizul), my Linux mentor strictly advises not to do so, third this type of distribution auto-installs differently than you would do manually - different directories and different paths for config files - at least on Linux ....
[16:21] Cr0vaX if we find it useful we'll migrate it to linux int the future, but that'll need to a previous migration work, which I can't do now
[16:22] fabricius ... so then it would be difficult to get help (or use knowledge) from general Linux administration, as things are organised differently than expected - even for good reasons related with the on-time installation distribution concept
[16:22] Cr0vaX yes
[16:23] fabricius I think Cr0vaX, that mostlikely porting the Tiki database from W to L including the custom files, should not be any problem, given the MySQL would not be differently treated on both systems
[16:23] Cr0vaX but migration of any webpage is quite easy, bd import, file copy and that's it, more then that are minor tweaks, like ldap authentication, so that'll have to be analised later :)
[16:24] fabricius just a new checkout on Linux, copy custom files, import db, installer and dunno
[16:24] fabricius BUT I never did that myself
[16:24] fabricius I just assume it SHOULD be that way
[16:24] fabricius :D
[16:24] Cr0vaX yeah, my concerns are more about LDAP, which is tricky, but is working now, and that's good for me
[16:25] Cr0vaX after everything is ok, will move it for a more roboust platform, but now I need to hurry :D
[16:25] Cr0vaX users need to use it ASAP
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[16:26] Cr0vaX also we're interesed in joining the dev team, in order to have ISO9001, better then it is now implemented
[16:27] Cr0vaX we'll be using some tricks to approve documents (using PROPOSALS)
[16:27] Cr0vaX which will be ok for now
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[17:01] nelsonko ping fabricius, are you there?
[17:02] fabricius yes
[17:02] fabricius need to go for 5 minututes in about 5 minutes, but I am here most of the late afternoon - whatzup?
[17:03] nelsonko btw I did not receive any email from you. I'll have a quick look at the question you just asked about the ellipse to see if I have anything to add
[17:13] fabricius nelsonko, yes. 1st Lindon did commits for that and thus I thanked him for the quick action. This went in Cc. to you. I did not expect this quick action, as we agreed to evaluate opportunities and me to ask people for the menu parameter implementation.
[17:13] fabricius Actually I did expect that we first evaluate, revue and share with the community
[17:14] nelsonko so right now I tried noscript
[17:14] nelsonko I see first of all interestingly enough the icons don't show on my firefox, they show as some kind of unicode icon
[17:15] fabricius then here we had some unplanned but fruitful discussion about the same issues between chibaguy and amette, which I will put to the wikipage in a few minutes
[17:16] fabricius 3rd today once I try to do one thing, emails and other communication comes over me to the next and other topics - since hours I haven't been able to eithe rbreakfast or to test certain things, I planed to check and report today
[17:16] fabricius so appologies that you did not yet got the email
[17:17] nelsonko just wanted to confirm in case mail system error
[17:17] nelsonko about the intertiki thing, esp.
[17:18] fabricius please read aswell my todays  e-mail to the devlist (related) and maybe we can agree that I write about Intertiki a bit later - cause: I do want to test first, ten reprot and write a bugreport, where I mention you as volunteering (if issue prooved as bug) and then wirte a summary to yoeu
[17:18] fabricius /s/ten reprot/then report
[17:20] fabricius So maybe nelsonko we do not discuss now, but i can do my tests, then write bugreport and e-mail and if you then still had time, we meet here again ?
[17:20] nelsonko ok, sounds good
[17:21] fabricius by the way: eronmeg, is that one of your guys?
[17:21] nelsonko as for the js I will read the email you wrote it is a rather long one though and deals with a lot of non technical questions of the whole js vs non-js issue
[17:23] fabricius yes, I believe it is aswell a strategic and cultural question, not only technical
[17:24] fabricius But here in the IRC (as said will add to Wiki) Gary, Mette and myself came to some agreement which we want to suggest to the community (I understood t "plan" as suggestion), so kind of a pretechnical concept, which might be more interesting for you, in case you agree to the general path
[17:25] fabricius and now I really should go and ignore IRC for an hour or so
[17:26] nelsonko ok. on this no-us issue, while I am theoretically sympathetic to the idea that Tiki should be as functional without js as possible I am unable to justify company resources to help make this happen as none of our customers have sites that are expected to work without js.
[17:26] nelsonko It's that kind of problem, which is why I have been pretty much "sitting on the fence" so far.... (not really contributing to the discussion much)
[17:28] fabricius The community need to agree, if we want to provide at least basics with no-js and if yes to which extent we ant and we can. The rest is organisation and maybe we will agree for before release of Tiki 15
[17:29] nelsonko fabricius, makes sense. I think what would help is to have an accurate understanding how much technical work it is though, and what "basics" mean.
[17:29] fabricius and Nelson, we need you and others contributing their opinions instead of sitting on the fences - that might have helped a lot that those few people who discussed so far understood each other better
[17:30] fabricius yes, but please Nelson give me time until later, cause much of that is already written down and I simply need the time to 1st retest Intertiki and 2nd put the written stuff on the wiki page
[17:30] fabricius after that discussions might be much easier
[17:31] nelsonko yes of course :) thanks!
[17:31] nelsonko eronmeg is geoff, btw
[17:32] nelsonko (from the UK)
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[21:28] aalex Hello. I wonder why I can't log into my tiki web site when using SSL? https://example.com - cannot login. If I disable the mandatory SSL URL, login perfectly works at http://example.com
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[21:41] ricks99_ any ldap experts online?
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[22:40] Tiki|bot New Forum Posts: Upgrade from 12.2 to 13.1 changed max-width of FIVEALIVE-LITE theme - http://tiki.org/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?forumId=14&comments_parentId=55889
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[23:33] Tiki|bot Recent Bug:  - http://dev.tiki.org/item5637
[23:43] Tiki|bot Recent Bug:  - http://dev.tiki.org/item5638