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[00:17] amette Bad Tiki|bot, bad!
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[20:05]  gezza joined #tikiwiki
[20:08] gezza polom
[20:09] gezza hi fabricius
[20:10] fabricius wolod
[20:10] fabricius hi gezza
[20:10] fabricius got message?
[20:10] fabricius twitter good
[20:10] gezza just got your tweet
[20:10] fabricius was message
[20:10] fabricius :D
[20:10] gezza how did you delete untranslated strings?
[20:11] fabricius I did not delete in HU or CZ - only made new translations with previously 0%
[20:11] fabricius and I did not delete untranslated strings
[20:12] fabricius with transifex you must distinguish between files for translation and files for use
[20:12] fabricius files for use contain english-english for non-translated
[20:12] fabricius files for translation contain english-empty for non-translated
[20:13] gezza how do you distiungish?
[20:13] fabricius if you use the original files from the latest trunk, you have a file for use - so english-english, which are mostly commented with double slash at start of the line
[20:14] fabricius so when I start a new language to first import into transifex, I open lang/XY/language.php
[20:15] gezza aha, i only imported the english
[20:15] fabricius then I copy the part between
[20:15] fabricius $lang = array(
[20:15] fabricius and
[20:15] fabricius );
[20:15] fabricius then I take this into Calc (OOo) and sort for //
[20:16] fabricius then I delete all lines with //
[20:16] gezza so you deleted from the file all those lines before importing
[20:16] fabricius yes!
[20:16] fabricius download the language.php from transifex in the "for translaton" version
[20:16] gezza i think it is ok to import as it is, all strings are unreviewed anyway
[20:16] gezza so you must go thourght them
[20:17] fabricius (directly opening in the editor)
[20:17] gezza altough the statistics is not right, that is true
[20:17] fabricius delete everything between $lang = array( and );
[20:17] fabricius and paste the result from Calc
[20:18] fabricius Then I have a clean file in transifex with only translated strings english-translated + english-empty and the percentage is matching the reality
[20:20] fabricius if I do not do this way, but instead would just paste the original "for use" version (without deleting // lines) I'd have 99% for German, French, Italian, etc., but most of the strings in fact translated english-english, what we do not want
[20:20] fabricius I made the fault first and just wondered why we have IT, FR and DE all 99%
[20:20] fabricius So I looked into it and figered the above out
[20:21] fabricius If you download HU and CZ "for translatione" you will see !
[20:21] fabricius you will have nearly no english-empty but a lot of english-english besides a few english hungarian or english-czech
[20:21] gezza makes me wonder about the workflow, when new strings are added in Tiki, a script is running and they are populated into all languages files, right?
[20:22] fabricius but you need none english-english but a lot of english-empty to get the percentage right - you are tricking transifex
[20:22] gezza so lets say we switch to transifex, than this script needs to update only the english languages, which then gets updated automatically in transifex
[20:23] gezza i think i need to wrtie this down on a wikipage
[20:23] fabricius I think, all files are compared to the base file which is English-English in our case (the top in the list with logically 100%
[20:23] fabricius would be great if you write it down
[20:24] fabricius just at the very first openingof a new language - if we have an existing non-empty file in our Tiki code - we have to do the sort and delete with Calc or Excel
[20:25] fabricius I'll do that with japanes and korean later aswell - it is just sort, delete, use the rest. no need to understand the language itself, once the encoding (unicode) is alright
[20:25] fabricius gezza next thing:
[20:26] fabricius we should take care to use the right (in Tiki commonly used) languages first
[20:27] fabricius example: German we use (and translated so far) mainly German de, Not German (Germany) de_DE
[20:27] fabricius same with French
[20:28] fabricius in the German Language Tiki User Group there is nobody translating or caring about country specific German variations, so we should use the general version and only this one in Transifex
[20:29] fabricius same for French and others
[20:29] fabricius Hungarian (Hungary) you know better ... are there different variations used and which one is generally used in other software or in Tiki?
[20:31] gezza there is just one hungarian used
[20:31] gezza i was also wondering about whteher to use "hu" or "hu_HU"
[20:31] fabricius so why you use country specific Hungarian in Transifex instead of general Hungarian like in Tiki?
[20:31] gezza maybe it woould be better to use "hu"
[20:32] fabricius yes, I think so
[20:32] fabricius but your language, you must know ;-)
[20:32] gezza the workflow needs some thinking
[20:32] gezza how do new strings get into transifex?
[20:32] gezza and how do the translations go back into svn
[20:33] gezza i think there is no way to edit the translations files directly and commit, all must go through transifex
[20:33] fabricius maybe you restart - create hu and use the existing hu from trunk => then filter and delete * // english-english * and then put the result into Transifex
[20:34] fabricius I think the workflow to SVN or maybe in future GIT is not the major thing, as with Transifex a larger number of people has access to the translated files - could become a subresponsibility of a then larger release team
[20:35] fabricius I do not see a problem to download and commit a language once it got added another 10%
[20:36] fabricius the problem would be how to merge, in case People would commit to SVN aswell
[20:36] fabricius but I can imagine, that Transifex could handle doubling of lines
[20:37] fabricius then I'd need only a local shell script to delete all lines starting with // and batch rename them to the Transifex naming
[20:37] fabricius upload there
[20:38] fabricius download for "use variations" and recommit
[20:38] fabricius OK ... the more often and the more languages, the more we'd need kind of an API to handle automatisation
[20:39] gezza or we remove all the other translations from the codebase and keep it transifex
[20:39] gezza and deploy them only at release time
[20:39] gezza so there is no chance for a conflict
[20:40] gezza i think wee need to use the demo infrastructure for various releases
[20:40] fabricius ahhaaaha no, many of us run sites directly from the versioning system - no point to not having the lang files there
[20:41] fabricius svn (or maybe future git) must be complete
[20:41] gezza hmm
[20:41] fabricius BUT - maybe having something like automattical vendor download with composer for lang files !?
[20:42] gezza needs some thinking :)
[20:42] fabricius so not actually having them in SVN, but getting them after svn up when you run the composer
[20:42] gezza how do you like transifex interface?
[20:42] fabricius it has advantages, but maybe not replacing Tikis online translation
[20:43] gezza my problem with online translation tool is that you only see visible things, you dont see error messages
[20:44] fabricius maybe Tikis online translation could be helpful together with Transifex, when a nice coordianated workflow is in place
[20:44] fabricius I am thinking about some combination
[20:44] gezza did you see this? https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/tiki-12x-romanian-translation/
[20:44] fabricius right now there is no easy way to figure out where online translated strings (with Tiki own tool) go to
[20:45] fabricius Yes gezza, I did see this, I know the guy (did chat with him frequently) and did import to the dev version
[20:45] gezza nice
[20:45] fabricius I will invite him and thank him for his approach
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[20:49] fabricius let's think => I see a string or a few untranslated in my Tiki => I online translate this directly in my own Tiki => I copy the result from the resulting file, maybe accessible from my Tiki webinterface (tiki-admin.php?page=i18n => I login to Transifex, download the "for translation" version of my language, simply add my strings, save and upload back to transifex. ... later every Xhours or days this will be
[20:49] fabricius autocommitted to the Tiki's versioning system
[20:50] fabricius loooool
[20:51] fabricius changing Tiki's feature's names to comply with a companies individual setup
[20:51] fabricius that is funny
[20:52] fabricius they just need to label their menu items and use mainly wikipages instead of admin views of galleries and trackers
[20:52] fabricius I'll answer him
[20:52] fabricius they should get a consultant
[20:53] fabricius instead of "contributing" a change of naming "file galleries" to "form", just because they store downloadable forms in the file galleries
[20:53] gezza i see a problem with the need to review
[20:53] fabricius * FUNNY *
[20:53] gezza funny, but it is a real life request :)
[20:54] gezza i got similiar before from one client
[20:54] gezza had to change the translation :)
[20:54] gezza just for him
[20:54] fabricius you can even change the translation English-English
[20:55] fabricius but the approach is not right
[20:55] fabricius not in this case
[20:55] gezza ok, I go now and upload the REAL hungarian translation status :)
[20:55] fabricius what if you start to store not only forms, but aswell images
[20:55] fabricius find images in the feature "forms" ?
[20:55] fabricius oh I'll write him that ...
[20:56] fabricius good luck with redoing your hungarian translation which will then leave only CZ near 100%
[20:57] fabricius we need to inform Luci before he starts over to translate strings (which then caused a lot of extra work for him)
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[21:58] gezza down to 25% :/
[22:10] fabricius you see