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[11:04] fabricius polom
[11:09] fabricius how r u chibaguy? Must be early in the morning, like before bedtime now in Chiba?
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[11:10] chibaguy hi fabricius. I'm fine thanks. It's 6:10 p.m. here now.
[11:13] fabricius hummm calculating
[11:17] fabricius 6+11=17 hrs behind? hummm no earth is turning towards the east. You are ahead of us. 7 hours. That makes sense. I thought something about 7 hours round about.
[11:18] chibaguy right
[11:18] fabricius Sourceforge say that they are online with Allura again - so i think our commits will restart soon
[11:26] chibaguy ok, that's good.
[11:27] fabricius WOW checking out the first Tiki after more than a week right at this moment !!
[11:27] chibaguy Looks like this language name - Iniunnaqtun - is misspelled. Should be  Inuinnaqtun .
[11:28] fabricius oh - how come that? I hope the person adding a language knows how to spell it (don't usually native speakers add languages?)
[11:29] fabricius what kind of language this is?
[11:29] fabricius From the inuit in Canada or Alaska Or Sibiria?
[11:30]  ko3t joined #tikiwiki
[11:31] fabricius Composer running now
[11:34] chibaguy Canada. I did a quick google check and google corrected my spelling.
[11:35] chibaguy I suppose it was a typo when added.
[11:39] fabricius Ah you added => then must be typo
[11:42] fabricius chibaguy, we have 53 languages now and the best have been going down from nearly 100% to less than 75% (French, German, etc.) Only Catalan (Xavi) keeps halfway up with 85% but then Spanish opposes with ~25% ... many are less than 20% down to 2% (Arab)
[11:42] chibaguy that's true.
[11:42] chibaguy "you added"? No, I din
[11:43] chibaguy didn't add the language name
[11:43] fabricius ah ok - you just figured out the misspelling
[11:43] fabricius good find
[11:43] chibaguy yes, I was just going down the language names in a language file.
[11:43] fabricius chibaguy: we must attract translating contributors asap. Do you think, that the Transifex pilot project could bring us out of the actual trap and push the most important languages?
[11:44] fabricius Aren't you speaking Japanes?
[11:44] fabricius ;-)
[11:44] chibaguy Yes, some. Actually I
[11:44] fabricius /s/Japanes/Japanese
[11:44] chibaguy I'm working on the Japanese language file now.
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[11:44] fabricius hummm
[11:44] chibaguy I suppose the poor state of translations reflects the limited use of Tiki.
[11:45] chibaguy Translations are driven by realworld need for translated sites.
[11:45] fabricius would you mind to try that Japanese language file on Transifex?
[11:45] fabricius for Tiki 15
[11:45] chibaguy That's what I'm doing.
[11:45] chibaguy to try it out.
[11:45] fabricius Ah you are on Transifex
[11:46] fabricius well, do you like it so far?
[11:46] chibaguy yes
[11:46] chibaguy well, it's an interface for editing the strings, but I don't mind editing language.php directly. I guess for some situations this interface is good.
[11:47] chibaguy So far I'm doing simple things (language names). For strings where the meaning isn
[11:47] chibaguy t clear and so on, having the extra fields here for discussion, etc. is probably good.
[11:48] fabricius We can handle the language.php by our selves and commit directly to svn, even watching the SVN maing list notifications ... mostly then usually I mean one person per language active anyway ...
[11:49] fabricius Transifex offers a completely different teamdriven approach with such a low hanging entry point, that even average endusers have a chance to contribute to add translations
[11:49] fabricius I find THESE two points the very most  interesting ones
[11:49] chibaguy that's right.
[11:50] fabricius I think you are right, that translations to some extend reflect the real world needs, but sametime people with low English language skills look for well translated software to be able to use it - especially desicion makers look for that.
[11:51] fabricius We NEED good translations in a number of most important langauges, which we would have to define
[11:51] fabricius The "to be defined languages" depend aswell on the market we want to taggle and the consultants we have
[11:52] chibaguy I wonder what is meant by "Afghanistan" in the list of language names - that's not a language.
[11:52] chibaguy According to Wikipedia, there are two main languages in Afghanistan, neither of which is "Afghanistan"
[11:52] fabricius yes, strange - Pashtun maybe or Farsi or other ... they speak a number of languages there
[11:53] chibaguy yep, I
[11:53] fabricius Afganistan is a country, you are bloody right
[11:53] chibaguy I'll skip that one for now.
[11:53] fabricius +h
[11:53] fabricius please check the language.php first
[11:53] chibaguy Oh, I see. I've come to the end of the languages and have started the list of countries. My mistake.
[11:54] fabricius if there are translations included we could check the language in google translate and then change
[11:54] fabricius ahahaha lool
[11:56] fabricius So Hungarian at the first place seems to have low priority, as only few people, BUT Gezza owns one of the few Tiki companies. So this rises the priority very much (not only for himself). Luckily he takes action by himself to rise from 15% to nearly 100% - good luck buddy
[11:56] chibaguy How does Transifex commit the file changes back to svn?
[11:58] fabricius Humm this seems to be a problem atthe first place, so that we likely have to start committing the "to use version" manually - BUT - I have see some hooks with URL stuff and I feel, that there can be scripts triggered uploading to somewhere.
[11:58] chibaguy I suppose maintaining language files is like feature development, etc. It gets done by someone who is motivated.
[11:58] chibaguy and skilled.
[11:58] chibaguy If no one is, then no progress.
[11:59] fabricius We need to figure that out in the next few days or weeks and if I am right, it should be a task for amette or Jyhem, maybe fmg to setup the initial commit scripts
[12:00] amette It's not a special sysadmin task imho.
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[12:00] chibaguy oh, a lurker ;-)
[12:00] fabricius German and French are very interesting markets. In Germany I see more companies pooping up interested in using Tiki in recent time - very helpful watching is the moderated registration and the self-descriptions ... still need to figure out, what we as community can do with this feedback, helping these new users and us
[12:01] chibaguy Hi amette
[12:01] amette yeah, I started lurking for mentions of my name again ;)
[12:01] amette hi chibaguy :)
[12:01] fabricius hi amette
[12:01] amette hi fabricius
[12:03] fabricius we should find, if and what way to commit translations to svn (later optionally Git if we eventually might move
[12:04] fabricius By the way: I do NOT see companies pooping up in Germany, but I see German companies popping up in the community - Sorry for that missfit
[12:05] fabricius Anyway, I have already seen and heard feedback by those companies, respectively employees, that some of them are especially attracted cause of our move to Bootstrap
[12:06] fabricius And I hear feedback that those companies want to use as Knowledge Base, Document / Issue Tracking, Intranet System or think more or less towards CRM functionalities
[12:08] fabricius It would not be silly to see Atlassian Confluence and Jira as one of the  closest competitor candidate and to focus on a professional market where besides others, but especially Atlassian customers want to move towards OpenSource
[12:09] chibaguy I wonder how to decide on the country name, when translated. Simply "United States" or "United States of America"? Or "-----" or "People's Democratic Republic of ----"?
[12:09] chibaguy Seems to be a mix, so far.
[12:09] chibaguy This is in the Japanese file, not sure how other languages are handling country names.
[12:10] fabricius I would at first try to see how other major projects do so (Wordpress, Joomla, Drupal, ... ) on their community sides, then start with Wikipedia to figure out some kind of common sense and if any doubts left either you deside or we discuss in the devlist
[12:11] chibaguy So "Algeria" in Japanese (but stated in English here) is "People's Democratic Republic of Algeria".
[12:11] fabricius ahhh we have to define the base file first in this case
[12:11] chibaguy Generally I would say the simple name is sufficient.
[12:12] chibaguy Tiki interface isn't a legal document or contract, etc. ;-)
[12:14] fabricius mostly, I agree (simple name = sufficient) until it has to be distinguished ex North and South Korea or like 25 years ago in Germany  GDR and FRG etc. <=> You deside
[12:14] fabricius Only consider: changing the base file likely brakes existing translations.
[12:16] fabricius anyway, we have at this time only 17 included to Transifex AND this here is the chance to start up doing things right from the first place - so once you carefully condiered have my +1 to get good simple and consistent base file and stuff for Tiki 15
[12:16] chibaguy Sure, it's always a problem to change the base file. There needs to be a way to show base file changes, IMO, for translators to check to see if they need to update their translations.
[12:17] fabricius Transifex does take care about that to some extend
[12:17] chibaguy That'd be good.
[12:18] fabricius it has a Translation Memory that makes suggestions out of previously deleted translations, once similarities over a certain extend have been relised
[12:18] fabricius there are notifications the team members can define
[12:22] fabricius so generally:
[12:22] fabricius Bootstrap Responsive Design we have now
[12:22] fabricius Website as a VCard for new users and decision makers we are working on as well on better content structures / layout for existing users and teams
[12:22] fabricius Translation issue was realised and brought up to action by gezza now - a bunch of people already collaborating
[12:22] fabricius Next steps in "devmode" imho will be UI/UX, Profiles and Apps to taggle the professional markets
[12:22] fabricius And surely more users
[12:22] fabricius So marketing wise we have to think about some campaigns to attract especially designers and developers and we have to prepare things that they especially find it easy to join the Tiki community and easy to contribute
[12:40] chibaguy sounds good
[12:45] fabricius I have to drive to a friends birthday now ... a bunch of work this evening and tomorrow. But asap I'll setup the Team tracker prepare the Team evaluation to be discussed at the next Round Table meeting
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[12:52] chibaguy Team tracker/evaluation?
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[13:29] fabricius chibaguy: at the last Roundtable Meeting (23 July) we agreed, that we need to reduce the sheer massive number of Team, especially merge Teams with only one ative or inactive member. Aswell the maintaining of any overview of who/what, what/where, responsibilities, peers etc. need to be overhauled - not only but especially in context of the now ongoing wesite revamp. It was agreed, that it would make sense to mak
[13:29] fabricius more use of filterable trackers instead of spreading wiki pages => ex 1 filterable tracker on one central Team page instead of dozens of Team pages ....
[13:29] fabricius chibaguy: will do as transparent as possible to make contribution / question / suggestion ongoingly possible instead of presenting the "final enemy" ;-)
[13:31] chibaguy ok
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[13:58] jonnyb polom up
[13:59] fabricius wolod jonny
[13:59] jonnyb thanks for you mails and fb posts fabricius
[14:00] fabricius np ... Communications Team and Community Team have to improve actions and activity for mutual benefits jonnyb
[14:00] jonnyb i just did svn up on my trunk and apparently it created 155 new files and updated one - seems odd...
[14:03] fabricius luciash__ has mentioned that 3 commits (at least) have been missing ... restorage seems to have catched 15th of July, so a number of commits between 15 and 17 July must be missing and the latest revision of luci is newer than the current state of the restorage. Thx for getting things back up jonnyb
[14:04] fabricius jonnyb : maybe luciash__ was referring to Tiki 14 and you are talking trunk ... Surely we will be up and running very soon
[14:04] chibaguy At Transifex, I translated a bunch of lines - language names and country names - and now these need to be "reviewed" Who is the reviewer?
[14:05] * chibaguy thinks about editing the language file instead ;-)
[14:05] fabricius chibaguy, I suggest that you be reviewer - i am convinced, that reviewer can translate themselves aswell ... is the problem when only one or few people in a language
[14:06] chibaguy Can I be assigned as a reviewer then? I don't seem to have any project admin status.
[14:06] fabricius We are just starting with Transifex, so we should not complain and give up too early
[14:06] fabricius afaik you are maintainer - if not you should be ... let me check
[14:07] chibaguy The team has 9 coordinators, 2 reviewers, and 2 translators, according to the team description.
[14:08] fabricius reviewer for japanes now ... checking maintainer status, you should have and then you can add yourself and others to languages and roles
[14:09] fabricius every language has to have a coordinator by definition, which is in our case usually the user "tiki" setup by gezza (meant as the community account - gezza has his own aswell)
[14:10] fabricius 9 coordinators mean that 9 languages have a coordinator, which can be always the same person (or account)
[14:11] chibaguy Ok, now I have "review" and "unreview" buttons, thanks.
[14:14] fabricius chibaguy: just added you as adminitsrator - respect the environment ad have fun
[14:15] chibaguy respect the environment? :-)
[14:16] fabricius you always for sure - one of the best, maybe better then myself (ref: themes folder ;-) )
[14:18] chibaguy hah, I'm tossing a tv out of a third floor window at transifex.com right now! :-)
[14:19] luciash__ pom pom
[14:19] luciash__ brb
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[14:20] luciash re
[14:20] chibaguy hi luciash
[14:24] jonnyb hi luciash and all
[14:25] jonnyb my svn working copies all seem fine, svn up just works ok (so far)
[14:26] luciash jonnyb: maybe you were lucky not to svn up before the outage revision number ?
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[14:26] fabricius @ amette, chibaguy, jonnyb, luciash, Jyhem : I did find this on Transifex : *Automatic update of source files* ... Set Transifex to automatically update your source files. Enter for each resource the URL that Transifex should check for updates of the source file. ... Transifex will overwrite the existing source strings with those found in the linked file. This may lead to loss of translations, so make sure the
[14:26] fabricius URL points to the correct file before saving the URLs.
[14:26] luciash r55897
[14:26] jonnyb yes, maybe
[14:27] jonnyb sorry fabricius - no idea, trying to get through the svn backlog
[14:27] luciash I had r55901 on trunk
[14:27] jonnyb please don't do any mass changes for a little while?
[14:28] fabricius Was JFYI ... checking now possibilities to autocommit translations .. leave you discussing SVN for now
[14:28] luciash fabricius: do not put that auto-update on transifex on or we will loose all we translated via transifex soon
[14:29] jonnyb i just recommitted https://sourceforge.net/p/tikiwiki/code/55900 - seems it was missing
[14:29] jonnyb in 14.x
[14:29] fabricius NO luciash I do not do anything on in this repect without team agreement first ... searching for a commit possibility
[14:29] luciash fabricius: +1
[14:30] luciash jonnyb: +1
[14:30] jonnyb the previous commit in 14.x (according to the emails) is https://sourceforge.net/p/tikiwiki/code/55895/ which seems ok
[14:31] luciash yep
[14:31] jonnyb good, thanks for the santiy check luciash ;)
[14:31] * luciash should not use cron to update his branches and trunk periodically ;)
[14:33] fabricius amette - maybe I found something - would you mind to check? https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/tiki-development/edit/
[14:33] fabricius amette : *Web hook URL* input field *Secret Key* input field ... You can specify a callback URL which Transifex will visit whenever a translation for a file is completed or fully reviewed. You can also add a custom secret key that you will use to verify that the request comes from Transifex. ... Find out more about web hooks on our documentation. link: http://docs.transifex.com/developer/integrations/#web-hooks
[14:33] luciash fabricius: one disadvantage of transifex is we cannot upload language.js as a resource (only json and some other formats, but no array as with php possible to upload)
[14:34] fabricius luciash: I am not sure if Transifex is the longterm way to go. But at least it seems to help us pushing translation efforts and shows us the way to go how easy we have to make for translation contributors
[14:36] luciash fabricius: yup yup
[14:37] gezza polom
[14:37] luciash hey gezza
[14:38] gezza aubout transifex: there is API and a client that can delpoy translations, push/pull, etc
[14:39] gezza drafting a wikipage now to write it down
[14:39] chibaguy svn update seems to be ok for me.
[14:39] fabricius very good gezza
[14:40] jonnyb polom gezza
[14:40] fabricius what is with language.js gezza?
[14:40] gezza yes, was also exploring that, we need 2 resources, language.php and language.js
[14:40] chibaguy The review stage at Transifex is useful for holding translations that you want to check again.
[14:40] fabricius ah that is all?
[14:41] chibaguy gezza, that's per language, right?
[14:41] fabricius chibaguy ressource per project (ex Tiki 15)
[14:42] fabricius chibaguy roles per user per language - only one role per user in a language, but different roles in different languages
[14:42] gezza as far as I understand we upload only lang/en/langauge.php and lang/en/language.js transifex, than let transifex pull updates to these from Tiki, and also let transifex delpoy the various translation files back to Tiki
[14:43] fabricius gezza the deploy back to Tiki semms to be the crucial factor, but you are on the way to figure that out and document it - great!
[14:44] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r55902 10branches/14.x/templates/tiki-edit_article.tpl
[14:44] Tiki-KGB [FIX] articles: Make the first (default) tab the general article edit form (as it was before)
[14:44] chibaguy So transifex has to know the urls of all the language files, to deploy back the updated translations, right?
[14:44] chibaguy (just wondering how this works)
[14:44] gezza we can prepare a script and teach transifex using its API or the client
[14:45] gezza but i am still in the middle of reading, so more about this later :)
[14:45] chibaguy jonnyb, I changed the order of the tabs of the article edit form because the editor is presented with textareas that might not exist for the article type.
[14:45] fabricius and you are just on the way to document this ... so we might want to wait a few minutes or hours
[14:46] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r55903 10branches/ 1014.x/lib/tiki-js.js 1014.x/lib/parser/parserlib.php
[14:46] Tiki-KGB [FIX] wiki: Fix plus/minus headings setup js so that closed sections are closed again (and modernise a bit) and also set the right state server-side to avoid twitching pages on load. (wondering why the code to make it work properly had been commented out?)
[14:46] jonnyb oh, sorry chibaguy - i thought it seemed like a bug, made it confusing for a new user
[14:46] jonnyb maybe those two tabs should be merged back again?
[14:48] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r55904 10branches/14.x/templates/tiki-wiki_topline.tpl * [FIX] print: Fix print URL for new wiki sefurl schemes
[14:48] chibaguy maybe so. I didn't think about it until a client had an article type with an unusual set of article parts, and was confused why the extra textareas appeared when his type didn't use them.[
[14:48] fabricius @chibaguy and jonnyb ref: Fix plus/minus headings setup js so that closed sections are closed again ... is it possible to replace plus/minus with css-icons (alike fontawesome plus/minus to become more obviously and stylish?)
[14:48] chibaguy Even with this, clicking preview is needed before the textareas display as needed for the type.
[14:50] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r55905 10branches/14.x/lib/core/ 03Search/Elastic/QueryParsingException.php 10Search/Elastic/Connection.php 03Search/Elastic/NumberFormatException.php
[14:50] Tiki-KGB [FIX] search: Clean up ugly Elastic search errors (was presenting users with a full page stack trace alert that was very offputting)
[14:51] chibaguy It'd be nice if designating the article type caused the correct textareas and fields to display in the editor with no refresh at all, via ajax or whatever.
[14:51] jonnyb oh really? before bootstrap there was some (ugly) javascript that showed or hid the right bits for each type
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[14:51] chibaguy Hmm.
[14:51] chibaguy I'll check tiki 12 about that.
[14:52] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r55906 10branches/14.x/templates/trackerinput/files.tpl
[14:52] Tiki-KGB [FIX] trackers: Proper fix for files add & remove in a modal (now that i understand delegated event handlers a bit better!)
[14:52] jonnyb thanks - i'll roll my thing back if i can't fix it better
[14:52] jonnyb (still getting through last week's commits ;) )
[14:54] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r55907 10branches/ 1014.x/templates/tiki-change_password.tpl 1014.x/tiki-change_password.php 1014.x/tiki-login_validate.php * [FIX] login: Respect url_after_validation pref even after changing password
[14:54] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r55908 10branches/14.x/lib/core/Tracker/Field/DateTime.php * [ENH] tabular tracker: Add prefs date and time formats for DateTime field
[14:56] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r55909 10branches/14.x/lib/trackers/trackerlib.php
[14:56] Tiki-KGB [FIX] trackers: Trim non breaking spaces also from field labels for ItemLink fields
[14:56] Tiki-KGB 03jonnybradley r55910 10branches/ 1014.x/lib/ckeditor_tiki/tiki-ckeditor.js 1014.x/tiki-wikiplugin_edit.php
[14:56] Tiki-KGB [FIX] wysiwyg: Plugin WYSIWYG line feed issue in wiki mode and trim extra linefeeds from the end
[14:56] luciash gezza: as I said, you cannot upload language.js as resource - it is not supported
[14:57] luciash gezza: the array of key => value is not supported in js file as resource
[14:57] luciash gezza: it must be json format or two others so we would need to request it from Transifex via a ticket
[15:00] * luciash already tried to upload it and failed
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[15:03] luciash food, bbl
[15:13]  ko3t joined #tikiwiki
[15:22] luciash re
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[16:11] luciash good news, after reaching svn revision number >= 55901 all svn ups work again!
[16:12] luciash thanks jonny :)
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[16:12] jonnyb super (although mysterious!)
[16:16] luciash I think it was just failing because of the higher revision number previously svn upped on my localhost... when it got lower than the repo, all went good again
[16:18] luciash on trunk I get svn checksum mismatch for one plugin file though
[16:19] luciash should be fine when i delete it and svn up again
[16:19] luciash svn: E155017: Checksum mismatch for '/var/www/tikitrunk/templates/wiki-plugins/wikiplugin_listexecute.tpl'
[16:21] luciash hmm, nope, after svn up it needs svn cleanup but then it complains again on that file, mysterious indeed ;)
[16:21] luciash expected:  6827440d209f381a5c8295dc6af5b3c3
[16:22] luciash recorded:  af1b05101b56a3a4ee0ce02384431d4d
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[16:23] luciash 14 branch does not have this issue though so far
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[17:00] jonnyb luciash: did you try deleting the whole templates dir and svn up?
[17:07] jonnyb luciash: i think your checksum issue must be to do with http://sourceforge.net/p/tikiwiki/code/55898 - merged to trunk in http://sourceforge.net/p/tikiwiki/code/55901
[17:16] luciash jonnyb: I will try
[17:18] luciash jonnyb: I tried searching for it in .svn/pristine but with no luck
[17:20] jonnyb odd that the bbb tpl also changed in that commit is ok for you - all very odd
[17:21] luciash just deleted whole templates/ and did svn up again but it did not help to get rid of the checksum error
[17:21] luciash aaah, it changed something though!
[17:22] luciash now i get the error for:
[17:22] luciash svn: E155017: Checksum mismatch for '/var/www/tikitrunk/templates/wiki-plugins/wikiplugin_bigbluebutton_view_recordings.tpl'
[17:23] luciash so it must be combination of these two - first delete the checksum file in .svn/pristine/XX/XX.... and then delete the templates/
[17:23] luciash looking for the bigblue button checksum file now
[17:25] luciash darn! it is not there! :-p
[17:28] luciash very weird :-p just did the rm -rf templates/ again and now I get the first checksum error back again! :-o
[17:28] luciash svn: E155017: Checksum mismatch for '/var/www/tikitrunk/templates/wiki-plugins/wikiplugin_listexecute.tpl'
[17:28] luciash funny things
[17:31] luciash weirdly enough, grep finds that MD5 (or whatever) string only in ./db/tiki-secdb_14.0_mysql.sql:4567:INSERT INTO `tiki_secdb` (`filename`, `md5_value`, `tiki_version`, `severity`) VALUES('./templates/wiki-plugins/wikiplugin_listexecute.tpl', '6827440d209f381a5c8295dc6af5b3c3', '14.0', 0);
[17:32] luciash not in any SVN file
[17:33] luciash so I believe it must be remote thing (on sf.net SVN repo) or something else somewhere in my ~/.svn or something ?
[17:34] luciash or do we have a svn hook script to check MD5 checksums which executes on every svn up? (wondering)
[17:35] * luciash trying fresh new checkout of tiki trunk now
[17:37] luciash (weird it does not happen with 12 and 14 too)
[17:38] luciash fresh checkout seems to work with no errors
[17:39] luciash ok, problem solved for me for now ;)
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[18:29] fabricius Why Tiki|Bot is sending the notifications several times? Anybody knows?
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[23:28] fabricius This Tiki|bot is ignoring me. Please Tiki|bot stop sending endless numbers of copies of the same messages
[23:28] fabricius Who is administrating the Tiki|bot?